Heat, Exhaust, Shield, Tape, Exbox, Hot

[karlz]

Defender 2015 110.

Just installed an exbox from Mulgo.
During the install, saw that there is bugger all between the bottom of the cubby on the puma and both the exhaust and the transmission. Actually there is a heap bit of space. I read several posts about regrets of not shielding the exbox. Dont want the electrics getting hot.
If you dont have an ex-box, doesnt matter this topic will relate to those that dont have one either. When I mention ex-box, just think bottom of cubby.

So I started looking at options.

1. Supercheap "platinum heat shield". Mounting it below the bottom of the ex-box, not flush, but say raised a few cm's away from the bottom using some washers etc, allow some air flow barrier.
https://www.google.com.au/url'sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiu45GvlIvLAhWHNJQKHQ-fBoMQFggeMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.supercheapauto.com.au%2Fonlin e-store%2Fproducts%2FPlatinum-Heatshield-Material-HS1S-700-x-290mm.aspx%3Fpid%3D121225&usg=AFQjCNHEfflMrRHZCMLhmnJJdZ8hHVv0Ww&sig2=IUOUU7M87NBdqJEsJhpRfw&bvm=bv.114733917,d.dGo

2. Then I got under the car and looked at the exhaust. Actually its a good looking stainless exhaust, but its showing signs of hottness. Hmmm, why not just shield the exhaust? So looked at these options:-
a) exhaust heat shield kit, hot exhaust, cool car, heat protection, exhaust pipe protection, embossed (http://www.carbuilders.com.au/ehs_k) or
b) Reflective Aluminized Heat Shield Barriers (http://www.thermo-tec.com.au/tt/heat-n-sound-barriers/reflective-aluminized-heat-shield-barriers.html)

3. Ummed and ahhh-ed about using exhaust tape. But dont know, would it work? Also, wouldnt it be another spot for the odd tree branch to catch and rip off.

I want to reduce temps in the cabin, I ordered some Dynamat xtreme last night, (not only for heat but also noise) . I want to do a good job.

Should I just go to an exhaust guy and tell him to fix it?

[jon3950]

I just wrapped my exhaust on the weekend from the flexible joint behind the cat back to the next flange near the muffler. It has made a noticeable difference to heat in the cabin.

The stuff I use is this:
Magma Wrap --- Thermal Velocity Australia | Hi-Performance Exhaust Wraps and Heat Shields (http://www.thermalvelocity.com.au/product.asp'strParents=&CAT_ID=&P_ID=408)
I've used this to wrap extractors on 4wd turbo rally cars and it runs rings around the cheap stuff you get at SuperCheap etc. It may be overkill for this application (post turbo) but I had some spare.

Am also in the throes of fitting an Exbox. Have applied some heat sheilding to the bottom of it, but I think it needs more than that. The whole seatbox heats up so the problem will be heat transfer from that as well as the radiated heat from underneath.

I don't have a solution yet, but I think the exbox needs to be thermally isolated from the seatbox as well.

Cheers,
Jon

[landoman]

Thinking of fitting one of these Exboxes .......how hard is it to do it yourself

[lump_a_charcoal]

Not too hard, but it depends on how far you want to take things...

Have a look in my build thread in my signature to see my install.

[The Cone of Silence]

I installed my ExBox 5 years ago and applied some heat shield to the base of it - I don't recall what it was called but I got a sheet of it from Repco and cut it to size - it's a little like a soft metal - malleable but stays firm.

That worked for a while but I've found recently that the ExBox is heating up and there's a lot of hot air coming in under the driver's seat, so I need a new solution too.

Watching this thread with interest...

[karlz]

I installed my ExBox 5 years ago and applied some heat shield to the base of it - I don't recall what it was called but I got a sheet of it from Repco and cut it to size - it's a little like a soft metal - malleable but stays firm.

That worked for a while but I've found recently that the ExBox is heating up and there's a lot of hot air coming in under the driver's seat, so I need a new solution too.

Watching this thread with interest...

I looked at the stuff from Repco, and also from Supercheap. The Supercheap stuff it better quality but for the about the same price.

That said, I just bought a lot of stuff (an overkill) from the sites below.
It should arrive in a few days and I will evaluate the install.

1. I decided to attack the heat at source, i.e. the pipe. I ordered 2 of these
Exhaust Heat Sheild (http://www.carbuilders.com.au/ehs_k)
2. I also ordered this to go under the tunnel, i.e. to stop the heat from the transmission - Heat Barrier (http://www.thermo-tec.com.au/tt/heat-n-sound-barriers/reflective-aluminized-heat-shield-barriers.html)
3. I also ordered something similar to the Repco/Supercheap option that I will suspend under the exbox (via some spacers),
another barrier (http://www.carbuilders.com.au/embossed-aluminium-heat-shield)

Probably an overkill.

[jon3950]

I spent a little time to tonight lying under the Defender and contemplating the world and all things heat and exboxes. At the risk of stating the bleeding obvious, here are my thoughts.

The problem as I see it is the shape of the transmission tunnel. It's basically a big square box at the end that traps all the heat from the transmission and exhaust. The back of this box is the back of the seat box which blocks any airflow in this area. The top of this box is where the exbox sits.

Putting heat shield on the bottom of the exbox will help, but a lot of heat is being absorbed by the back of the seat box. This can then be conducted up to the exbox and because it is sealed it then acts as an oven.

The first thing I need to do is wrap the exhaust between the flange and the muffler. I only wrapped up to the flange because I was only thinking about my feet (selfish, I know). Once it gets to the muffler it is behind the seat box so should be ok as its all out in the airstream.

Not sure what to do next. The most effective solution would probably be self-adhesive heat shielding stuck to the underside of the transmission tunnel and seat box, so there's no dead airspace behind the shielding. This would be a very complicated job and I don't really like the idea of it sitting under there gathering mud. Maybe just a bit on the back of the seat box might help.

Another option would be to shield the seatbox and transmission inside the cabin. This might work but the exbox would have to be insulated from the seatbox - ie no metal to metal contact. I've been eyeing off the Exmoor stuff - a lot of money, but if it does the job it would be worth it. They say the on their website it doesn't fit the 2.2 so need to find out about that.

Anyway, some food for thought. I'll wrap the rest of the exhaust up to the muffler on the weekend and see how that goes. I also need to get a more comfortable driveway. I can see I'll be lying on it a lot now.

Cheers,
Jon

[jon3950]

I looked at the stuff from Repco, and also from Supercheap. The Supercheap stuff it better quality but for the about the same price.

That said, I just bought a lot of stuff (an overkill) from the sites below.
It should arrive in a few days and I will evaluate the install.

1. I decided to attack the heat at source, i.e. the pipe. I ordered 2 of these
Exhaust Heat Sheild (http://www.carbuilders.com.au/ehs_k)
2. I also ordered this to go under the tunnel, i.e. to stop the heat from the transmission - Heat Barrier (http://www.thermo-tec.com.au/tt/heat-n-sound-barriers/reflective-aluminized-heat-shield-barriers.html)
3. I also ordered something similar to the Repco/Supercheap option that I will suspend under the exbox (via some spacers),
another barrier (http://www.carbuilders.com.au/embossed-aluminium-heat-shield)

Probably an overkill.

Be very interested to see how you go with the thermo-tec stuff. If you can get it on properly it should solve your problem.

[roverrescue]

Jon having recently picked up a tdci 130 but not having taken delivery.
Is there sufficient clearance between gearbag tcase and floor pan to install a thin sheet of alloy shaped to the gearbox with air gap from the floor pan?

That combined with heat shielding on topside of floor pan may help?

Steve

[jon3950]

There's plenty of room, but there's also a lot wiring and stuff which will complicate it.

It is an idea I have considered but I'm not convinced it will help much. Because it is a dead airspace the air behind it will eventually heat up as well.

The primary source of radiant heat under there is the exhaust, which I think is worth shielding. Beyond that I think there's just a lot of general hotness coming from the engine, gearbox and transfer case (so all the way down the tunnel) which would be hard to shield against directly.

Cheers,
Jon

[roverrescue]

Thanks Jon,
Ill have a look when the new toy arrives.
Maybe a guard vent with some 75mm ducting dumping fresh air into the deadair space?

Perhaps as you say a quality exhaust wrap, some reflective and foam heat insulation and the exbox may cope okay.

With regards to heat reduction,
The best mod I ever did to my 300 was to install little vents in each door directing flow of air onto your feet.
Wrapping the exhaust and adding extra insulation helped but having a flow of fresh air into the footwells is awesome in 40ish tropical heat with no aircon

Im hoping this flash new tdci with aircon could be a little more comfortable without punching 75mm holes in the door!

Steve

[karlz]

I ordered some "stuff", most of it arrived today.
Results and temperature shots to come.

[Babs]

I spent a little time to tonight lying under the Defender and contemplating the world and all things heat and exboxes. At the risk of stating the bleeding obvious, here are my thoughts. The problem as I see it is the shape of the transmission tunnel. It's basically a big square box at the end that traps all the heat from the transmission and exhaust. The back of this box is the back of the seat box which blocks any airflow in this area. The top of this box is where the exbox sits. Putting heat shield on the bottom of the exbox will help, but a lot of heat is being absorbed by the back of the seat box. This can then be conducted up to the exbox and because it is sealed it then acts as an oven. The first thing I need to do is wrap the exhaust between the flange and the muffler. I only wrapped up to the flange because I was only thinking about my feet (selfish, I know). Once it gets to the muffler it is behind the seat box so should be ok as its all out in the airstream. Not sure what to do next. The most effective solution would probably be self-adhesive heat shielding stuck to the underside of the transmission tunnel and seat box, so there's no dead airspace behind the shielding. This would be a very complicated job and I don't really like the idea of it sitting under there gathering mud. Maybe just a bit on the back of the seat box might help. Another option would be to shield the seatbox and transmission inside the cabin. This might work but the exbox would have to be insulated from the seatbox - ie no metal to metal contact. I've been eyeing off the Exmoor stuff - a lot of money, but if it does the job it would be worth it. They say the on their website it doesn't fit the 2.2 so need to find out about that. Anyway, some food for thought. I'll wrap the rest of the exhaust up to the muffler on the weekend and see how that goes. I also need to get a more comfortable driveway. I can see I'll be lying on it a lot now. Cheers, Jon

A good option would be a coating of some sort, one of our members is doing a restore and has used Raptor lining for some of his panels (not for heat reduction) if the Raptor lining reduced or reflected heat this would be a good option as it can be rolled on.
Another roll on option would be a ceramic coating I know they use these already in/on mechanical parts and in my line of work (commercial/industrial floors) I will ask my suppliers for some tech data on a roll on ceramic, then there would not be the problem of mud etc sticking under there. You might still have to back it up with some heat protection inside the cab under the Exbox.

I'll make a phone call and get back to you all.

Sent from my iPhone using Forum Runner

[karlz]

I did a few things today with the exbox install on a 2015 defender.

First of all, I dynamat both the inside and outside of the exbox.
(Theres probably better stuff for heat shield but this should help).

Outside
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/03/788.jpg (http://s1305.photobucket.com/user/karlrz/media/ExBox%20Heat%20Shield/20160305_165539%20Medium_zpss0gv1dwy.jpg.html)

Inside (You may notice that I raised the electrics another 25mm using some 25mm alu tubing - The sires look too cramped below the fusebox)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/03/789.jpg (http://s1305.photobucket.com/user/karlrz/media/ExBox%20Heat%20Shield/20160305_165556%20Medium_zpsuhi6qjqp.jpg.html)

Now to work on the exhaust.
This is the problem
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/03/790.jpg (http://s1305.photobucket.com/user/karlrz/media/ExBox%20Heat%20Shield/20160305_144518%20Medium_zpst6d6ciak.jpg.html)

and from below
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/03/791.jpg (http://s1305.photobucket.com/user/karlrz/media/ExBox%20Heat%20Shield/20160305_144454%20Medium_zpsapwlqbc8.jpg.html)

I bought this heat shield stuff from Carbuilders. (prompt delivery can recommend - I bought other stuff too, thats for another thread) Sound Deadener - Car Builders - Sound Deadener Heat Insulation Car heat Shields (http://www.carbuilders.com.au/)
I hat to cut a little bit out, so it would go over that bit of metal welded to the pipe, you can see it the picture above. (Yes I used the bottle opener on the scissors)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/03/792.jpg (http://s1305.photobucket.com/user/karlrz/media/ExBox%20Heat%20Shield/20160305_150254%20Medium_zpsgtmfhf2o.jpg.html)

Heres what it looks like installed
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/03/793.jpg (http://s1305.photobucket.com/user/karlrz/media/ExBox%20Heat%20Shield/20160305_151825%20Medium_zpsgjvff61c.jpg.html)

[Baytown]

Ive just spent about $1700 on Dynamat, Dynaliner, Car builders heat sheild and hood liner etc.
I picked my Defender up in Albury today and will start lining it top to bottom next week when I drive back to Cairns.
I'll put some photos up here as well, but will follow closely what you have done around the exhaust. My seat box is almost too hot to keep your hand on.
That being said, the 110 is no where as loud as I was expecting (and Im ex military, so know Perentie very well.
Best wishes all.
Ken

[Marty90]

I've got an Exbox in my 90 that houses the usual electrics from under the seat and all the Redarc gear.The latter being the main concern as the Exbox got so hot you could hardly touch it on a long drive.I bought some Heatshield Products from the States.I got the exhaust wrap,Muffler heatshield and another heat reflective,self adhesive product you cut to size for under the Exbox.This was aPITA as you have to undo the Exbox and lift it up as much as possible to fit,so it'd be wise to do it before installation.Temperate is cut down a fair bit, probably not as much as I'd like,although to touch it the change is noticeable.

[roverrescue]

Karlz
Thanks for the photos and ideas
That heat shield looks a good option.
Are you happy with the hose clamp attachment or is it a little chincy ?
With the clearance seen I can see me tigging a few tabs onto the zorst and installing a stainless shield.

I love your idea of spacing the electrical system off the heat sink

S

[karlz]

Karlz
Are you happy with the hose clamp attachment or is it a little chincy ?
...
I love your idea of spacing the electrical system off the heat sink

S

The clamp is stainless, its pretty tight. Ive hidden the tabs up, I dont think they will be the 1st contact point. Theres plenty of something else under the defender to get trapped 1st.

I think the product is good, all the bits are stainless except for the shield itself.
But there is something in between the alu of the shield, i.e. its not just a piece of Alu Its sort of sticky. I dont know what it is.

I also bought from Carbuilders a big piece of this shielding. That will go above the muffler, havent worked out the mounting mechanism yet.

[AndyG]

Thanks for the ideas,
I have already wrapped the exhaust to the first flange, awesome result.
Thinking, this, Zero Clearance is a premium quality peel and stick heat shield material, under body engine bay heat (http://www.carbuilders.com.au/zero-clearance) , would be great in the transmission tunnel, & under ex-box, probably when i pull the transfer case to put the good Ashcroft bits in. Has anyone done this ?

And i might as well do the rear seat area in sound deadener, sound dampening, noise insulation, dynamat, resomat, underbody, sound proofing (http://www.carbuilders.com.au/sound-deadener-stage-1-black-label)

Again, thanks for the link

[karlz]

Thanks for the ideas,
I have already wrapped the exhaust to the first flange, awesome result.
Thinking, this, Zero Clearance is a premium quality peel and stick heat shield material, under body engine bay heat (http://www.carbuilders.com.au/zero-clearance) , would be great in the transmission tunnel, & under ex-box, p...

Didnt see that Zero product otherwise I would have fitted it to the underside of the exbox instead of the Dynamat. I bought some Raptor under panel liner from carbuilders, and they included a couple of pieces of free material as a sample. Now I know what it is, its that Zero stuff. Actually its a big enough piece to stick under the exbox. I'll do it tomorrow.


I also bought some magna shield exhaust tape from carbuilders. Havent installed it yet, has tape made a big difference?

[AndyG]

Coming back lightening Ridge to Brisbane, 40C outside, handbrake, floor cool. So pretty good, best ROI on any mod so far

[seqfisho]

Coming back lightening Ridge to Brisbane, 40C outside, handbrake, floor cool. So pretty good, best ROI on any mod so far

So what did you do Andy, I am very interested as I am about to embark on the same and looking for a positive result considering the expense of some of this stuff.

Seems to be plenty of people doing it but few posts on actual results and if it was an improvement or not.

[AndyG]

I simply bought the the better quality exhaust wrap from Autobahn, 2" x 20' from memory, soaked it in water and started from the flange under the driver's seat, made sure there was always a decent overlap, until I ran out, which was past the firewall. And I used stainless steel clamps rather than stainless cable ties,
About the limit of my technical skills :p

Going by the temp gauge on the gearbox that runs 5 -10 C cooler too

Edit, rereading. I see my earlier post was ambiguous, I blame the morphine I'm on

[AlecW]

Now this sounds like a perfect application for asbestos sheeting, shame about the health effects.....