TDV8 Cleaning EGR

[Hammer H]

Can this be done?

I'm removing the intake soon to replace my leaking thermostat housing, which started as a slow leak 12 months ago but is now worse. Difficult to diagnose due to lack of vision, a $30 inspection camera and alot of poking around helped to confirm it. This leak apparently is not uncommon with older vehicles. There is not a lot on the web about it, but i was told by a dealer mechanic they split at the seams.

So as i have the top off and I know my intake manifold is full of crud I'm thinking now is the time to clean the intake and egrs. Ive read just replace its not worth the effort them but the cost is $400 each and im always keen to give these things ago and learn something.

Can it be done, whats the best way and will they work afterwards or is it waste of time?

Cheers Paul

[rar110]

Gday Paul

yes I am about to hit 249,000km. I haven't done a lot to it (new tranny and alternator soaked up quite a bit of money, but all good again, still rapt).

According to my service history, my thermostat housing was replaced about 3 years ago at 178,000km. This history indicates the oil filter housing o-rings were also replaced, and the EGRs and an intake manifold was removed to do the job. They may have given the intake and EGRs a clean while doing that job.

Yes I had my mechanic use Revive on his recommendation. I noticed a difference after it was done, quieter & more responsive. I'll get him to do another treatment at the next service in a couple of weeks.

regards

Pete

[rar110]

Paul
there is an EGR removal step by step guide on FFRR. I would give the system a good clean. Ive read about people using oven cleaner to do the intake manifold on other european cars. I would use something else on the EGRs. Make sure you take plenty of pics for our benefit. Id be very interested to see how clogged the intake and EGRs were.

regards

pete

[Hammer H]

Thanks Pete,

Pic attached is one of the smaller rear intake hoses, full of crap.
I will get the pics and also after complete try the revive. Should have it done in a week or two.

Cheers Paul

[rar110]

Ta Paul.

Have you left that hose as you found it? It would be interesting to look again after the treatment. Also was it an EGR hose?

The mechanics used two bottles on my car, one for each side/bank.

[Hammer H]

Ta Paul.

Have you left that hose as you found it? It would be interesting to look again after the treatment. Also was it an EGR hose?

The mechanics used two bottles on my car, one for each side/bank.

That hose pic from memory was the short straight hose left hand rear looking from front of the car. All the hoses got the flick when i had the intake of in December, but Im sure intake will be the same. I will post some pics when its off next.

I will manually clean the intake/egrs where needed first, see the results and maybe then use the revive.

Paul

[Hammer H]

Ok intake off in 1 hr and attached are photos. Not sure how may I can get on at a time. The right intake from the inter cooler at the front is dirtier around the sensor and must be affecting it's readings. Both sides have equal build up towards the rear.

Interesting the intake pipe from the egr is cleaner and has a sooty build up not like the build up that can be seen in the intake. When the egr intake pipe is scraped it produces a powder not like the gooey stuff in the intake. As I've read before the gooey deposit is a mixture of the diesel and the egr Carbon and that looks to be correct as where the egr pipe plums into the manifold is where this gooey build up starts.

Easy to clean as it's just a wet claggy goo as I would imagine crude oil is. No hard deposits so no need for soaking overnight but it is messy. I scraped out as much as I could with a screwdriver, sprayed with throttle body cleaner, wiped out as much as possible then high pressure cleaned with water.

I think a product like revive would be a good idea to use regularly and would help clear this stuff away. There must be a bunch of this stuff further along and into the heads.

I have not got to the egr yet but not sure I will as it's cleaner than I imagined.

I always use bp ultimate diesel I'm to believe it has good cleaning capabilities.

Paul

[Hammer H]

Left intake

[Hammer H]

Right intake

[Hammer H]

Intake left elbow

[Hammer H]

Right elbow intake

[Hammer H]

Left rear

[Hammer H]

Right rear

[Hammer H]

Left egr pipe

[Hammer H]

Right egr pipe

[Hammer H]

Right egr pipe can be seen where it inter the intake on the right

[Hammer H]

Egr pipe removed from intake

[Hammer H]

On left cabins powder built in egr on right gooey concoction in intake

[Hammer H]

A little bit more cleaning to go

[Hammer H]

Unfortunately I could only upload 1 pic at a time

Next is to decide to remove and clean the egrs or not

Cheers Paul

[justinc]

Paul after you do this you should look into an electronic egr delete. Save ever having to do this again...

Jc

[Hammer H]

Paul after you do this you should look into an electronic egr delete. Save ever having to do this again...

Jc

Thanks Jc, where could I get one?

Paul

[justinc]

There are a few tuning companies offering this in parallel with a remap. These guys ( i am their tassie agent) are near you

ECU Remapping | Motorcycle Dyno Tuning | Steinbauer | Chip Tuning Perth | ECUwest (http://ecuwest.com.au/)

If you call Darren for any enquiries he is very helpful.

Also BAS in the uk can do it too.

Jc

[Hammer H]

There are a few tuning companies offering this in parallel with a remap. These guys ( i am their tassie agent) are near you

ECU Remapping | Motorcycle Dyno Tuning | Steinbauer | Chip Tuning Perth | ECUwest (http://ecuwest.com.au/)

If you call Darren for any enquiries he is very helpful.

Also BAS in the uk can do it too.

Jc


Awesome, thanks Jc

[rar110]

Thanks Paul that's really interesting. The right side looks to be much more affected just as Harlie suggested, as this is the only side where the crank case ventilation (CCV) oil vapour enters the intake and combines with exhaust gases and air. Im getting a revive treatment next service. Im very tempted to get the mechanic to remove the bits you have to take photos after the treatment to see if this stuff really makes a difference. The real question is whether to fit a secondary CCV filter as Harlie suggested to help stop oil in the vapour mixing with exhaust soot and forming that goo on the driver side intake.

[Hammer H]

Ok decided to remove the egrs as with them out it will be much easier to replace the thermostat housing.

[Hammer H]

Looks clean, some carbon but nothing like what's in the manifold. In fact I'd say very clean especially for 240,000 ks

[Hammer H]

Water cooled body part of egr

[Hammer H]

After a few minutes of cleaning, the valve sits in a recess there was some carbon in there I cleaned out. Tried blowing into the egr, it has a good seal. It's possible this has been replaced or cleaned before as I've had the car for 40,000 Ks. (It's total is 240,000 2007yr)The need to clean this egr was a non event, definitely not what I was expecting. The carbon deposits were consistent with the egr intake pipe. Time to remove one is 30 minutes. Total time to remove 2 from start would be two hours. Patience is required and be careful with connectors. I broke two hardened vacuum
lines, no big deal.

Paul

[rar110]

Thanks Pete, Pic attached is one of the smaller rear intake hoses, full of crap. I will get the pics and also after complete try the revive. Should have it done in a week or two. Cheers Paul

Gday Paul
Today I had a maintenance Revive treatment done (well I requested it so I assume it was done).

I took some pics after removing the 90 degree elbow hose going into the manifold. Here they are:
106675

[rar110]

Looking into the pipe on top of the motor after removing the 90 degree hose.

106676

[rar110]

I ran my fingers around the inner rim of the manifold pipe flange. 106677

[rar110]

How's the research going on the emulator option?

[rar110]

Here's the 90 degree pipe itself.

106678

[Hammer H]

seems to still be s fair bit of build up. The 90 degree hoses and pipe connected to which has a butterfly is not as bad as the straight pipes at the back, but I don't think you can get them off without loosening the manifold. You could take the Intercooler hoses of the throttles and take a pic in the manifold that would give a better indication I think.

Bloody dirty stuff.

Emulators still on the radar. Possibly soon.

Just got the seals and gaskets today, taking my time.

[rar110]

A lot more than I was expecting. However, again the car was noticeably quieter at idle when I picked it up. It was warm so maybe the EGRs were closed.

I can't see the IC being very efficient with that build up. At least it was replaced by the previous owner so not 250,000km in build up.

It really now got me thinking CCV filter as Harley suggested or emulators.

[Graeme]

EGR valves don't open until the engine partly warmed-up. The quieter idling is likely to be due to EGRs open causing delayed combustion from less oxygen than when not open, as quieter idling is one of the design features of EGR.

[Hammer H]

Now all back together and my 240,000km 3.6 tdv8 does not smoke at all, after a week. I've tried. (Due to cleaning intake and replacing seals/orings.)

My oppinnion on cleaning the egrs is of no use as they do not get dirty. The build up occurs post egr when egr gasses are mixed with the intake.

Paul