Imminent D4 SE purchase - Nerves and still considering a Land cruiser

[JamesAdelaide]

Hi Guys,

New to the forum and seeking some advice from LR D4 owners.

We are about to take the plunge into our first ever new car and have narrowed it down to Disco 4 or Land Cruiser 200 Series.

I can get:
-2016 Discovery 4 SE SDV6 with tech pack for $90k driveway
-2016 LC200 VX for $%95k driveaway.

Have a cousin who works at Toyota so getting pretty sharp pricing on the VX.
LR have the free on roads deal till monday 29/2, so $90k seems like good buying.

Our main use is daily drive (80-90%) and mostly touring towing a 700kg box trailer or a 2 tonne boat. Planning on getting a small caravan <2 tonne) too.
We are not serious off roaders but we do spend a lot f time on dirt roads when touring including a few pretty bad tracks here and there. Simpson desert and a few things are on the 3-4 yr plan and a lap around australia on the 4-5 yr plan.
We do venture out across the Nullarbor a bit cave diving, so we do get a long way from tyre dealerships.
Have never been anywhere where we have ont felt safe in our stock 2010 Pajero with 17" cooper ATR's.

I like the Disco better, nicer to drive, doesn't feel so "huge" and better driving position. Love of course the air suspension. Interior seat design ****s all over LC200.

Plan is to turn the vehicle over every 3 yrs or so, as we are doing this through our business.

Things I am worried about (and the things I mainly want advice on).
Any comments on these items would be gratefully appreciated or any other items I should be considering.

1) General reliability and parts
I am still hearing a few odd scary stories about people being stuck in a remote area waiting for parts.
There is no doubt you will see way for LC200's in more remote areas and more dealers etc.
But I am wondering about real world experiences here?
I look after my cars and keep a sharp eye/ear out for issues and ge them sorted asap.

2) Small fuel tank
I know we can do an Aux tank, but a rear wheel swing out is not going to work for us wit our boat.
I guess I can just carry jerry's on the roof if we do any really big trips.

3) Rims/tyre limitations
Seems only solution is a $2000 set of those special 18" rims (+ tyres?)
the 19's will be fine around town but

4) Lack of mud flaps
How do people go on long dirt road run??

5) Re-sale
I've been doing some numbers and the disco actually after 3-4 years is not that far behind landcruisers, but after 5 or 6 it starts to show. With the new model coming out this is a little concern.
Sadly people still blindly hold land cruisers on a pedestal, but you can;t deny it shows in re-sale.

Many thanks for any help.

Cheers
James

[Nicky]

As this is a Landrover site, you will only/mainly get votes for Landrover.
Toyota is expensive, older technology, and requires more frequent service. Your other queries are minor and easily resolved.

[RobA]

James all relevant and quite simply dealt with. To start with I went through the same process a year back and we have a D4 after 15 years of owning and operating Toyota's in our business.

If it is a work purchase I suggest you talk to the sales person at Solitaire about a fleet buy if they have not already offered it. This gives you free servicing to start with.

Your focus is primarily on daily drive and some towing which the D4 will eat up.

18" rims and tyres for off-roading are essential for us and not so for the majority. If you want to do a Simpson then a second spare on a second hand 19" rim may be an option. If that does not make you comfortable then the GOE rims are the only way to go. Yes we have a set which was budgeted as part of our purchase as well as a dual better system, TPMS, Tow Pro and Llams.

Fuel range? Nothing to worry about quite frankly as the bulk of your driving is within the bounds of civilisation. A Simpson crossing requires around 130l from Oodnadatta to Birdsville and after 20 crossings I reckon I know that for a fact regardless of vehicle type. So 3-4 JC on the roof of a good system is all you need once in a blue moon.

General reliability. All sorts of stories about both cars. We rolled over 20,000km and the first service in 9 months with a lot of intrastate travel, off-roading and towing our Ultimate camper. No issues.

Mud flaps. Yes to them and a set of side steps if you do a lot of dirt road driving. Better to purchase after market or bundle it in the purchase as you are already well above LCT so anything will be at that additional taxed rate when fitted. Or get it fitted post the purchase and it will still be under warranty if you get Solitaire to do it.

Residual is as you say close to the LC200. Insurance and Rego are less as you have 2 less cylinders but the driving experience is a much better one.

We also had designed and built in Adelaide a slide out tray which is a great piece of kit we use every day. It allows you to retain the third row seats and can be quickly removed by two people. Photo's attached I hope

As I am in Adelaide if you want to PM me for a chat feel free

Rob

[gotaflat]

well - here is my 2c worth rounded down to what ever you feel it is worth :)

We bought a 2011 HSE - 5 years little to no problems (extended warranty) fixed everything there might have been an issue with.
4 kids - the 7 seat are the better than Land cruisers by a fair margin.

LC 200s are tough - no question. Treat them like crap and they carry on usually - Toyota (all) lack modern tech, and they just get the bar minimum safety features - but enough.
they are not with out their problems - just look at the LC 200 forums.
Note they use more fuel than the Discos - particularly towing. my mate(s) 2 brothers have one each - both tow, on farms/dirt often etc not a lot of FWDing. One recons to big, city driving not great, not great overall - lacks features and wont get another one. The other will get another one, just does what its mean to do (GXLs). They both love my D4. but queries long-jevity of the D4.

Toyota have an advantage of high number of service centres - its a nice bonus - it really is if you our bush and things go wrong.

From MPV - cant complain about the D4 - its expensive sure (over 100k with boxes ticked on HSE), but 5 years and its still a great vehicle for us (well wife , kids, towing horses, around the farm where required). Its nice to get into - drives great and looks good (if you like boxed looks :D). Inside is just nice.

Like anything - newer get improvements - toyota is much slower at improvements and adding creature comforts..

I know this wont help your decision, but my wife drove both and D4 won hands down - no comparison. I was worried by the tech and lack of service options at the time - but its a great vehicle.

If you go the D4 - recommend the extended warranty

[Silenceisgolden]

Neither the Land Rover nor the Toyota are complete dogs - they are both at least adequately reliable and adequately competent. Naturally I believe the D4 is superbly reliable and for my needs superbly competent. I am sure many think the same of the Toyota.

As for availability of repair stations in the outback if I thought a vehicle would need such things I wouldn't own it.

However, we all have different tastes. Go and have an extended test drive of each, and choose the one you like driving the best because that is the main difference between the two. After that test, I am sure we will be welcoming you as a long term member of this forum!:D

[Aaron40]

Search.... land cruiser v8 diesel injector problems

[JamesAdelaide]

Thanks for all the feedback guys, hugely helpful.

I think the key is to budget for the rims etc and then see how it stacks up.

I've pushed solitaire adelaide for their best and final offer today.

James

[strydes]

If you're flipping it after 3 years then really reliability and service costs are not a consideration. You'll get free servicing in that time if you qualify for the fleet/corporate arrangement and nationwide roadside assist. With some searching I think you'll also find that most of the significant issues people come across are higher km vehicles that are outside warranty period. Sure there are exceptions for the unlucky few, but seem few and far between.

The 3ltr motor now is also very well honed, and the more common problems you see are usually on motors that are 4+ years old and were fixed in later revisions.

I drove a lot of (admittedly hire vehicle) 200's for work and for me that boat-like feeling as a combination of it's size and suspension instantly put it out of contention after I drove a D4. How they still outsell by such a massive margin the D4's at an equivalent price point I'll never know, old reputations die hard I guess.

[drelectro]

With regard to Wheels / Tyres

I went through much hemming and hawing about this, in the end I don't think the 19's are as bad as people make out, and getting any specific tyre in the outback is going to present problems.

In the end I went with a set of 19" Goodyear Duratracs which are a huge improvement on the stock rubber, have performed admirably off road and are (at least at present) easily obtained.

With regard to parts availability I think it really depends on what goes wrong, I've a mate who's Prado has been off road (the wrong kind) for getting on to 12 weeks waiting on parts after an unfortunate water ingress accident.

[BobD]

I've said this several times before on this forum but I've travelled all over Australia with a mate in a 200 series and another in a 100 series. The only car that has needed a truck in the four years we have been doing this was the 200 series with only 50,000kms and stuck at Lawn Hill. He had to get trucked to Mt Isa and then parts were sent from Alice Springs.


His poorly designed power steering pipe had a fatigue failure and the only place in Australia with the part happened to be Alice Springs since this part fails a lot on rough roads due to a vibration problem on corrugations causing the fatigue. This was the last one in Australia at the time and is an improved version which should get rid of the problem.


My D4 has never let me down in the bush but has had issues soon after returning from a couple of trips. The worst was a starter motor failure 1 week after returning from a 14,000km trip from Perth to Cape York and return in 4 weeks. That was very fortunate timing, especially as it started feeling a little bit sluggish for the first time while camped at Seisia on the tip.

[LRD414]

Thanks for all the feedback guys, hugely helpful.
I think the key is to budget for the rims etc and then see how it stacks up.

James,

As you say, lots of good feedback already and I can't add too much. But regarding cost comparison, when my father went through this same exercise late last year he was budgeting for some kind of suspension upgrade for the LC200 in order to tow his 2t caravan (loaded). I don't know the details but it seemed that the 200 sags without an upgrade and the D4 requires no changes to the suspension. He claimed it was going to cost him over $100k driveaway when this was included but I don't know the details. He was moving on from a LC100 and now owns a D4.

Note also the rims can be a delayed expense too. I chose to go for the 18's almost straight away but as mentioned already, there are a couple of reasonable 19" tyre options that would see you through most situations/places. What tyres come with the LC200? If they are highway spec then remove the tyre cost from your comparison as you have to spend that money either way.

But above all that, I think this is the key point from your original post:
"I like the Disco better, nicer to drive, doesn't feel so "huge" and better driving position. Love of course the air suspension. Interior seat design ****s all over LC200."
Life is too short.

Cheers,
Scott

[AnD3rew]

Not that I buy the reliability questions about Discoveries over Landcruisers, but if you are turning it over every 3 years you won't have any issues. You will be way better off from a comfort perspective with the Disco.

[Meken]

One word - permagrin...
Work colleague has LC 200 VX - chalk & cheese to drive / ride in

[JamesAdelaide]

Thanks again for all the feedback guys, HUGELY appreciated.

I'm popping over to see Rob's D4 tomorrow, be great to see one with the 18" rims and few aftermarket goodies.

James

[Graeme]

Note that only 4 special rims are required as genuine LR 18" fit the rear although a flat on the front would require a wheel shuffle from the rear.

[JamesAdelaide]

Ah good tip I just emailed the rim guys with this question.

So you are saying the spare is an 18" or are you saying buy 4 of the custom rims + 1 or 2 second hand LR 18" rims (D3 rims etc)?

[Narangga]

Ah good tip I just emailed the rim guys with this question.

So you are saying the spare is an 18" or are you saying buy 4 of the custom rims + 1 or 2 second hand LR 18" rims (D3 rims etc)?

My understanding is that the 3.0L has larger brake calipers on the front which mean the D3/D4 18" factory rims will not fit. However they do, I believe, fit on the rear.

So 4 X replacement 18's for the 4 road wheels and 1 or 2 spares which can be original 18' rims but must be put on the rear when you use them.