Holy grail of battery storage

[WhiteD3]

US agency reaches 'holy grail' of battery storage sought by Elon Musk and Gates | Environment | The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/mar/03/us-agency-says-has-beaten-elon-musk-gates-to-holy-grail-battery-storage)

From liquid air to supercapacitors, energy storage is finally poised for a breakthrough | Environment | The Guardian (http://www.theguardian.com/environment/2016/feb/04/from-liquid-air-to-supercapacitators-energy-storage-is-finally-poised-for-a-breakthrough)

[350RRC]

Pretty sure the US have been using base power generation to pump water upstream, at night, for daytime hydro generation use for 50 years in California at least.

DL

[Mick_Marsh]

Converting kinetic energy to potential energy is nothing new. It has a lot of losses in the systems.
The battery technology parts of those articles lack detail.

[350RRC]

Converting kinetic energy to potential energy is nothing new. It has a lot of losses in the systems.
The battery technology parts of those articles lack detail.

Or converting efficiently generated electrical energy back to potential (hydro) when the base load is off has losses as well, but the sum benefit can actually be............... beneficial.

DL

[Mick_Marsh]

Or converting efficiently generated electrical energy back to potential (hydro) when the base load is off has losses as well, but the sum benefit can actually be............... beneficial.

DL
Good job we'll have water to pump upstream now that the desal is ramping up.

There are better ways to provide energy to the grid 24/7. Battery storage is too costly in development and maintenance. More suited to off grid stand alone systems. Although battery technology appears to have moved ahead in leaps and bounds, in recent times, the development appears to have plateaued.

[101 Ron]

Pretty sure the US have been using base power generation to pump water upstream, at night, for daytime hydro generation use for 50 years in California at least.

DL

Australia has been doing it since 1970 at Kangaroo valley and to is also intergated in a way that Sydneys water supply is backed up in drought times.
The cost of pumping water from Kangaroo river to Fizroy resevoir is great in terms of energy used (about 1600ft lift)
The system has been making a profit in most of those years by draining down the water during peak and using cheaper off peak electricity to pump back up at night.
The greens will not let us build similar systems anywhere else in australia anymore because it requires dams.
I think the snowy hydro can do similar energy storage pumping.

[NavyDiver]

Speaks of the Holy Grail but Zero detail on what they may or may not have achieved in the 7 years.

c'est la vache?

[Pinelli]

Australia has been doing it since 1970 at Kangaroo valley and to is also intergated in a way that Sydneys water supply is backed up in drought times.
The cost of pumping water from Kangaroo river to Fizroy resevoir is great in terms of energy used (about 1600ft lift)
The system has been making a profit in most of those years by draining down the water during peak and using cheaper off peak electricity to pump back up at night.
The greens will not let us build similar systems anywhere else in australia anymore because it requires dams.
I think the snowy hydro can do similar energy storage pumping.

Australia's pretty flat in any case, in comparison with the other continents. There just aren't that many places where hydro can be built in the first place.

[PhilipA]

The idea of giant flywheels suspended on superconducting bearings seems to fallen out of favour.
About 10 years ago this was the next BIG THING.

AFAIK the Coral Bay wind/generator hybrid system uses smaller flywheels to balance out the power pulses from wind and generator start up.

Think of all those big pits in the Hunter valley where they could locate very large flywheels on superconducting magnet bearings .

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flywheel_energy_storage

Regards Philip A

[Pinelli]

At one stage Switzerland ran their public buses using flywheel-stored energy. They'd plug them into electricity overnight to spin them up, and use the stored energy during the day to run the bus.

One problem with them is in accidents you have all this pent up energy in a high-mass, fast spinning wheel that can literally explode, sending shrapnel everywhere.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/04/556.jpg

[NavyDiver]

Redflow Zcell battery review - MC Electrical (http://mcelectrical.com.au/blog/redflow-zcell-battery-review/)

Very interesting read IMO The quote cut to the bottom here is well worth considering before you jump with lithium-ion.

The last paragraph is one worth noting. "In case this all looks a bit negative, I'll sum it up with one statement. I've never bought shares before, but I'm looking into it."

First blog I have ever subscribed to.:D

"here are two massive problems that Redflow has solved for the energy storage market. The first is battery degradation, and the second is battery safety."

The business "This place is not about show: it's about getting things done. And that's what Redflow have been doing."

"Why did every salesman and his sparkie flock to the Redflow stand?" looks like there may not be a shortage of installers perhaps

"A lithium-ion battery will always be a hazard in a house fire. Lithium ion batteries will always be at risk of explosion if a truck runs over it. However, no doubt, when the price war begins with home storage solutions, unscrupulous manufacturers will be selling lithium batteries that could otherwise be described as time bombs." Even if a lithium-ion battery doesn't start the fire it is dangerous in a fire!

[ramblingboy42]

I questioned who MC eletrical may be, to write a review as they have , but their credentials look very very good and Mark's comments about Redflow are justified.

Redflow are still a very young company and they look to have some real solutions in the pipeline regarding the future of electrical energy storage.

Good to see a couple of quality all Australian companies hitting the forefront of this technology.

[NavyDiver]

I met with and had a very long discussion with the Victorian Installer. He has ZBM running already for over a year and has installed more for commercial properties over the last four years. This is not really a new technology just an adaptation to retail market imo.

Zcells are ZBM2 in a nice enclosure - Had I spoken with this gent a year ago I would have had ZBM already installed.

Ordered 2 Zcells and paid deposit for my full building UPS with at least 5KW reserve power then load shifting from Peak to off peak rates over 1000kwh per billing cycle. With the Solar PV I might be very close to Zero peak electricity. The UPS may exclude Air Conditioning to give it a long run time.

Shipping in progress. My power bill savings over the last 2 years or so almost fully fund this. LED lights and other changes already made.

[DeanoH]

I found this article a good intro into home battery storage.

https://www.choice.com.au/home-improvement/energy-saving/solar/articles/tesla-powerwall-payback-time

Deano :)

[NavyDiver]

Guess what arrived
http://www.asx.com.au/asx/statistics/displayAnnouncement.do'display=pdf&idsId=01779910

and some good news
UTSA researching battery that can store renewable energy | WOAI (http://news4sanantonio.com/news/local/utsa-researching-battery-that-can-store-renewable-energy)

[NavyDiver]

iTWire - Redflow appoints resellers for ZCell (http://www.itwire.com/resellers/74855-redflow-appoints-resellers-for-zcell.html) James Graham, the chief technology officer of Melbourne-based Standard Solar, one of the newly appointed resellers,says, "We've sold and installed all types of battery systems, including lead acid and lithium?.

?Quite simply, Redflow has the best battery technology on the market at the moment. It's the product I want to use myself."