Holden V6 EFI engine conversion question

[Nomad9]

Hi There,
I'm in the process of carrying on where others have left off with this project. I'm obviously getting to the pointy end of the issues that were just that little bit to hard to solve.

My latest hurdle is adapting the speed sensor to the series transfer case. the adapter is a screwed connection, and as the majority would know the series transfer case is a flanged connection.

I'm sure that I'm not the first person in the world to drop a 3.8 V6 Holden motor into a series 2a, how did others get over this hurdle? I'm of the understanding that unless the Holden engine ECU gets a speed signal the engine will go into limp mode.

Any assistance gratefully received.

Cheers Marty

[LandyAndy]

Marty.
My Bro has a 2a wagon with a XF falcon and C4 auto.He didnt need a speed sensor for his EFI.He gave up trying to get the transfercase speedo drive right and ended up ditching the speedo for a VDO electronic unit.It uses magnets on the tailshaft and a hall effects sensor.Surely the VDO hall effect unit may work.
Cant think of the name of the company you need to talk to,they used to have mini vans with a speedo on thier bum as service units.Maybe TISCO,Tough Instrument Service Co,but that would be a hazy guess from the past.Them Mini vans were an oustanding marketing weapon if its the correct company:cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:
Andrew

[Lionelgee]

Hi There,
I'm in the process of carrying on where others have left off with this project. I'm obviously getting to the pointy end of the issues that were just that little bit to hard to solve.

My latest hurdle is adapting the speed sensor to the series transfer case. the adapter is a screwed connection, and as the majority would know the series transfer case is a flanged connection.

I'm sure that I'm not the first person in the world to drop a 3.8 V6 Holden motor into a series 2a, how did others get over this hurdle? I'm of the understanding that unless the Holden engine ECU gets a speed signal the engine will go into limp mode.

Any assistance gratefully received.

Cheers Marty

Hello Marty,

I have been researching a similar option and I found that Dellows do a conversion of a Holden V6 3.8 litre engine into a Series III. With their conversion one would think it should involve being able to hook up all the electronics so the motor makes the right vroom vroom sounds. Maybe you could email enquiries@dellowconversions.com.au ?

My gearbox is a Series III and yours is a IIA; perhaps in the overall scheme of things this difference has been sorted out by Dellow's?

Let me know how you go. :)

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Nomad9]

Hi There,
So I have now checked with Marks 4WD adapters, Dellows and V6 conversions, none of them make an adapter for the Series transfer case fitting to the 22 mm threaded connection so this will have to be a custom made adapter. The engine won't run properly without a speed sensor of some description.

Thankfully I have access to a well equipped workshops to manufacture an adapter, looking at where it has to go it will be a tight fit no matter what. Add to that I had to hacksaw one of the screws to get the adapter plate off the transfer case, this just gets so much better.........

Cheers Marty.

[PhilipA]

The Range Rovers with 14CUX have a short cable with a speed sensor .

Knowing Land Rover you may find that the gear and fitting are the same as in the series .

AFAIR the RRC sensor gives 3 pulses per revolution, but this should not be critical as usually the ECU will use the speed sensor for overrun injector cutoff and stepper motor increase coming to a stop. IE the accuracy of the signal is not important just whether there is a signal vs no signal.

In fact a Commodore Stepper is the same or similar to a RRC one.

Just a thought for you to maybe follow that may come up OK.
Has anyone got a picture of one of the RRC VSS with the short cable? There seems to be none on Google.

Another thought is to get a sensor for a Cruise control and just attach it to the driveshaft. You may need two or three magnets .
Regards Philip A
Just to clarify , it is only AFAIK 89-91 that have a remote VSS from the output housing. Later ones have a VSS on the housing itself, but you would need a chopper wheel inside for those to work.

[Nomad9]

Hi Philip,
I had a search around and found what you were talking about, found a couple on Ebay. Knowing where the screws are to hold the adapter in place, getting that fitting in would be a challenge considering I had to hacksaw the screw out to get "'t" out and release the installed original adapter plate.

I'm back at work on Monday where I have access to a good machinist who I hope will be able to manufacture a couple of adapter plates. I could pursue the magnets option however I'll try this first and see what happens............. how hard can this be?

Cheers Marty.

[digger]

Hi Philip,
I had a search around and found what you were talking about, found a couple on Ebay. Knowing where the screws are to hold the adapter in place, getting that fitting in would be a challenge considering I had to hacksaw the screw out to get "'t" out and release the installed original adapter plate.

I'm back at work on Monday where I have access to a good machinist who I hope will be able to manufacture a couple of adapter plates. I could pursue the magnets option however I'll try this first and see what happens............. how hard can this be?

Cheers Marty.

If you work it out we expect a full and complete tutorial so lots of piccies please keep the specs etc.. you and yourmate could turn these up and make a quid!

Good luck

[PhilipA]

I'm back at work on Monday where I have access to a good machinist who I hope will be able to manufacture a couple of adapter plates. I could pursue the magnets option however I'll try this first and see what happens............. how hard can this be?

So you will have to make up a tone ring( Ha remembered the name) and fit it inside the housing to give a signal to the sensor.

The idea of the remote sensor gets over that problem.
Regards Philip A

[Lionelgee]

H I'll try this first and see what happens............. how hard can this be? Cheers Marty.

Hello Marty,

You are talking about Series Land Rovers and conversions .... "how hard can this be?" ... wow, nothing like opening yourself up to a whole lot of hurt and misadventures :D

Kind Regards
Lionel

[LandyAndy]

Marty.
The speed output for the speedo on a series tx case is crap,and it varies with wear/oil viscosity/preload etc etc.
I would look at that VDO hall effects generator for their speedo.I drove my bros Series before he had one,and copped a hefty fine on a long weekend as the speedo was reading between 40 and 80mph:wasntme::wasntme::wasntme: in a 60kmh zone.87kmh is what they came up with:mad::mad::mad:Ive driven it since with the electronic speedo,perfect.Needle dont do the series dance no more.
You could have a reliable speedo and supply the info the ECU needs.
His has higher speed diffs wich also made the original speedo reading even more of a guess,with the vdo it self calibrates,all you do is drive it over a measured 1000m
Andrew

[Nomad9]

Hi Philip,
My intention at this time is to make up a flanged 22mm threaded male "bit" that will mount on the transfer case then mount the speed sensor supplied by V6 conversions, then make a 22mm female "bit" that I can mount the V6 conversions speed sensor onto, this in turn will have the original speedo cable flange mounted to it.

It will all become very clear when I have had it made. My only issue I can see right now is having enough room to get tools in to tighten things up.

Cheers Marty.

[Lionelgee]

Hello Marty,

Do you have the engine currently installed in the engine bay? Did you post about your conversion on a different thread here at AULRO? Did you take any photographs of how you got to the stage that you are at now?

What sort of modification did you have to do to the original Land Rover cross member and engine mounts?

My apologies for the barrage of questions. When the two factors of available time and money align I am considering going down a similar path. Except using a Nissan Cabstar gearbox that has already been converted to the Series III transfer case.

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Nomad9]

Hi Lionel,
I bought the Series with the engine and gearbox installed on the chassis. This engine has the Nissan Cabstar 5 spd gearbox installed already. The previous owners supplied a level arch file with all the info in it, sorry no pictures.

The front cross member was removed and re-welded from what I understand, the firewall has also had some modifications. The engine, gearbox and transfer case were installed onto a bare chassis and the bodywork has been built around it. I have now modified the tubular exhaust manifolds, the nearside one only had 50 mm between it and chassis rail so this was a very tight squeeze, especially past the starter motor.

I am seriously now considering just getting the speed sensor to work off the transfer case and blank the connection to the speedo cable off and then just use a GPS speedometer, I'm not sure about the legalities of not having a KLMs reading.......................1972 Series Land Rover would "they" being the licencing people be that bothered? I'm going to make a call and find out.

There are so many little things, next issue will be battery storage, I'm trying to keep it out of the ute tub, looking at possibly under the passengers seat. With the new all aluminium commodore radiator and the new radiator support mounting the battery won't fit in the engine bay any more. And I also lose the bonnet support. Oh and the compartment under the passengers seat is tapered to the rear so I might struggle for height at the back of the battery.

Last night I was informed that my new wiring loom from Auto sparks has left the factory, should be here next week. My Wipac headlight conversion kit arrived the day before yesterday, that looks pretty good now.....

I'm writing a blog on this site about the conversion, that might give you a bit of an insight.

Cheers Marty.

[Nomad9]

Hi Andy,
Where did he source the parts from? Local or the US?

Cheers Marty

[Nomad9]

Hi Andy,
OK, I have had a bit of a look around at the gear you are talking about, looks to be upwards of $500 to get this system up and working. Right now I have the V6 conversions parts and the V6 Conversions wiring loom, they came with the vehicle. I didn't pay that much for the whole vehicle when all said and done, right now I don't want to invest to much getting things up and running, I have a figure in mind. I could take the first trip out and get yellow stickered and then all the time and money invested is wasted.
I'll pursue the avenue I am going down, possibly with a GPS speedo that might be the go. I'll keep the VDO option in the background and keep that as valuable information for later on, and I thank you for that.

Cheers Marty.

[Homestar]

Might just pay to check the legalities of a GPS speedo over your way before lashing out on one - while I have no issue with them, and will be fitting one to my 101 soon as I can't keep the blasted factory one going for more than a week at a time - getting one through rego may be a problem - as they don't work in all instances - in tunnels, etc, I don't think they are technically legal so may bite you come rego time.

Just a thought, keep up the good work. :)

[Nomad9]

Hi Homestar,
Thankfully the rego here in WA doesn't involve an inspection so the only time I would get pinged is if I was actually stopped for some indiscretion and they noticed the klms reading missing, obviously they would. Then it would be a yellow sticker and the rest would be history................:)

Cheers Marty

[Homestar]

Something like this would look good IMO - 85mm KUS White GPS Speedometer 0 200km H FOR CAR CMSB BS 200L SV KY08042 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/85mm-KUS-White-GPS-speedometer-0-200km-h-for-car-CMSB-BS-200L-SV-KY08042-/171915801010?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368)

Has an odometer as well so you're covered there. :)

[bee utey]

I'd just use a cruise control magnetic pickup, mount the magnet pickup coil to the transmission so that mount flex doesn't knock the magnets off. Add magnets until you get the pulse rate you need.

Example:

Cruise Control Magnets Speed Pulse VSS Generator Sensor Drive Shaft KIT | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Cruise-Control-Magnets-Speed-Pulse-VSS-Generator-Sensor-Drive-Shaft-Kit-/141922510990?hash=item210b3da88e:g:50sAAOSwJkJWlw5 Q)

[Nomad9]

Hi Homestar
Like it a lot, might go for that one. I'll still run the engine the off the V6 conversions module and do away with the cable drive speedo.

Cheers Marty

[Nomad9]

Hi There,
A couple of people asked for me to post what I did to resolve the speed sensor issue off the transfer case. So please find a couple of pictures attached. I have a very talented machinist who has now machined up a fitting with a female thread that will mount to the transfer case and a male cap made out of brass that will seal off the cable drive.

I have decided to go with a GPS mounted speedo with a distance measurement included. I haven't found out about the legalities of this as yet, having not found a person willing to comment, a problem they hadn't come across before. I'm sure if I am stopped the speedo drive will be the easiest thing to explain away.

The thread is approximately 22mm x 1.5mm pitch, however when done exactly to that diameter and pitch the thread still required some "tweaking" which took a fair while.

I'll post some more pictures when the speed sensor is mounted on the transfer case.

Cheers Marty

[Nomad9]

Hi there,
Well the sensor and the two adapters are now fitted. I wouldn't have been possible to fit an adapter for the speedo cable flange without some significant issues and modification. The later speedo cable with the screw end could well work. There is about 0.015 thou between the sensor and the end of the gearbox shaft. The gearbox shaft is hardened and you can't get a grinder in, I tried.

I had to file off the flats of the coupling attaching to the sensor to the transfer case adapter and had to tap the nut tight with a small pin punch, didn't feel very good however options were very limited.
Couple of pix attached.

[brad56]

watching with interest