Opinions on Suspension, Brakes & Hitches

[seqfisho]

I'm toying with the idea of going the camper trailer route next year given the space or definate lack of in the back of the Disco for long distance touring.

We have pretty much decided that the camper will be a soft floor type on a H/DTY Off Road type trailer chassis, and have started to isolate manufacturers although this may change before purchase time as we haven't seen all the ones that interest us in the flesh yet :roll: and intend to hire the final contenders before a definate purchase.

But

2 issues keep coming to mind, the first being brake types, electric or hydraulic :?: I know how well electric work for caravans and especially with the tekonsha controllers as my old man has run them since the day dot with his vans and we have used hydraulic with large boat trailers with good results, but which survives best in dust and mud and hard offroad conditions
Most rental units run hydraulic because not everyone that hires is wired for the electric brakes or wants the extra expense so hiring will most likely give only one measurement to judge against.

Does anyone have opinions over brake types?

And the same with suspension, I realise that independant would most likely be best but it is usually only on models or manufacturers in the $25k plus bracket which is a bit above what we were going to spend and mainly only on the hard floor style campers, are rebound springs smooth enough for outback roads without shaking the fillings out of everything in the camper?

Also there seems to be a lot of choices for off road hitches these days, once it was only the Treg or ball coupling but now there are some versions of the Treg, ORAC, Trigg, AT35 etc, any advantages of one over the other I know the original Treg used the poly block to help reduce towing shock but some of the newer styles seem to have moved away from this, does anyone know why?

And last but not least is our short list has come down to about 4 brands, Trackabout, Toughcountry, Challenge and AllTerrain does anyone have opinions on these good or bad.

[DiscoTDI]

Glen,

I am going to throw a recomendation towards camel group
www.camelgroup.com.au

http://www.aulro.com/albums/album112/000_0049.sized.jpg

Speak to a fellow by the name of Dave (Scottish bloke) and tell him Scott Thompson with the 2 kids and a pregnant wife sent you, he will sort you out (I am hard to forget I have been told). They are at Parramatta Rd Underwood. Very helpful style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

The unit I have is not a heavy duty one by any means but it has done me well for the last 2 years and is having no signs of trouble except the flat tyre it has at the moment.

Plus in trying to answer your questions, what do you intend using the trailer for, I take mine to a range of places and it does not have brakes or independant suspension, all depends on how much you are going to hurt it :twisted:

[seqfisho]

Hi DiscoTDi,

I intend to take it just about everywhere I take the disco, except rockclimbing and local harder day trips.

I would expect it to go to the cape across the top end, gulf country and through the center, as well as a trip to tassie etc, it will also be used for weekend 4wd trips and normal camping trips/weekends away up the beach etc.

Hopefully it will be a home away from home and provide a comfortable base for exploring this great land.

[Redback]

Mate have a look at this camper
http://www.campertrailers.org/camper_trader2.htm

As for suspension leafs are the go for ease of maintainence and simplicity and override brakes too mainly because soft floor camper aren't heavy enough to warrent electric or hydrolic brakes.

Treg or trigg are the most popular hitches for the above reasons.

A good setup would be 7 or 9 leaf eye to eye heavy duty rebound leaf springs (this is a minimun) 50mm heavy duty axle with Ford bearings and Treg/Trigg hitch with override brakes.

This is our setup and i can tell you we have been some truely rough places with no problems at all, in fact the trailer is better than ever.

Baz.

[Disco300Tdi]

Hi Glenn

Ditto Baz

I did a the axle under leaf, raised the camper enough
for a nice level ride

The weight of the camper doesn't warrant electric brakes
We only have the manual over-ride system and it works fine

Had it over some steep hills didnt know the difference
Also the Tregg hitch is a must, not enough travel in a ball mount

[DiscoStew]

I'm coming in late but anyway...

I also have a CAMEL GROUP trailer which I don't regret getting. I got the Bushman which is their off-road trailer. DiscoTDI's is a Beachcomber.

I have done two long weekends and am about to do a three week road trip, so will let you know how it goes.

As DiscoTDi says, Dave the Scot is great but so is Norm the Aussie and Patrick(?) the South African.

I didn't shop around a real lot so am not sure how it compares but it was clearly better value than the few I had seen to this point.

After reading more on this site I do worry that the seals are a bit basic but as yet are untested beyond driving in heavy rain.

You asked for thoughts on suspension, hitches and brakes:

After reading the advice in http://aulro.com/modules.php?name=Forums&f...cc59eb62cbf0557 (http://aulro.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=5167&sid=04180e53205ff74a8cc59eb62cbf0557) I started to worry more about the hangers than the suspension itself but mine look pretty solid to my novice eye. The hangers are not bent from anything as described in that post, they are brackets made from 8mm steel with a bolt running across the bracket to hold the spring. At the front the spring was around this bolt. At the back a second bolt hangs about an inch from the first bolt and the spring connects to the second bolt. I presume this is to allow some lateral movement. The bolts have grease nipples at one end so are probably part of the spring. The brackets are 150x75x8 where they attach to the chasis which seems to meet the advice in the mentioned thread. My point is to check the build quality of that connection. I describe mine only as a point of reference.

But this also got me thinking about chasis strength which I did not consider before hand. I just took their word that it was really strong and I guess I assumed there are standards for these things, which is an incorrect assumption. I would add this to your list of things to look at (but unlike me you probably know about these things already :roll: ). The chasis under my box is made up of 50x50x2 tubing but the length where the suspension attaches has an additional 50x50x2 welded to it and the hangers span these. The drawbar which I think is 100x50x4 attaches to this chasis just before the front hanger. It was a big selling point to them that the chasis and the drawbar are seperate.

The hitch on this model is an ORAC. I didn't research this enough and thought they were providing a tregg type device (my assumption). On the first trip I regretted this as I could not rehitch it due to the difficult approach angle and a small divot the jockey wheel was in. You have to be quite accurate in reversing the car to the pin. I almost lost the trailer trying to move it to a better location (my stupidity 8O). On the second trip I took a solid, flat bit of wood to put under a new jockey wheel with an "inflatable" tyre and this made it much, much easier. I had also practiced a fair bit in the driveway and there is a bit of technique in vertically aligning the pin with the holes which I am happy to describe if you go that way. I like the option of taking it to angles that I couldn't with the ball as I intend to do some serious off-road sometime. I don't imagine any of the hire trailers will have one for the reasons I mentioned, so if you want to come and play with one then PM me.

The LR gooseneck that came with my Disco was not suitable because it could not be inverted (to convert the drop to a rise) so I bought a 4" drop gooseneck for $75.

My father has a Tregg on his caravan and has no problems.

When we purchased it we had no intention of beach camping. We prefer forests. However some family members are now into it and I worry that the trailer will be too heavy for my ability at first. I think it is about 750kg empty. DiscoTDI's is much less than that hence no need for the brakes (it is called a Beachcomber).

I am a real novice but I am not sure the assumption about independant suspension being better is correct. Norm agreed with me but said that most customers wanted it which is why they used to offer it on their now discontinued Extreme model. However he may have just wanted to get rid of me, I had been there a while :oops:

Well that reply went on for a bit, even after several re-edits!

[matbor]

Go the leaf suspension, easier to fix at the side of the road... just ask Hiline.... we had to fix the trailer on the way up to ACE's BBQ last weekend and we used a hi-lift jack, as the eye that held the leaf on broke (was over loaded and the weld's where, let's ***** house to begin with).

Also go the overrun brakes, also easier to fix and not as expensive to maintain, especially if you are going to be doing a lot of offroading !!

That's my two cents worth.

Matt.

[Kenjo]

Hi Glen,
I've had a Cavalier CT for several yeras now. I has the very basic rebound spring suspension which seems to work fine. It tracks well and doesn't really bounce to much unless the trailers empty, which is never.

Try the people on www.campertrailers.org They are didicated to this subject.

Cheers,
Kenjo

[DiscoTDI]

Originally posted by DiscoStew


I also have a CAMEL GROUP trailer which I don't regret getting. I got the Bushman which is their off-road trailer. DiscoTDI's is a Beachcomber.




The Beachcomber is still an off road trailer, but basically is not designed to do the more heavy duty trips, a simple adjustment of the suspension and it will be right for just about anything. Mind you I will say it has been up the beach through the bush and down some very corrigated crappy roads and has no signs of stress in the chassis or suspension. I prefer the lighter trailer off road as it is much better to tow and I can still carry alot of gear, get alot further than others and use less fuel.

But at the end of the day it is each to their own and what suits there needs.

[walker]

All very interesting stuff. I am just looking around now at converting my off-road trailer into a camper. I plan to put the Howling moon rooftop tent on top of the trailer and add a stove and bench etc. all very basic. My plan is to keep it as light as possible but I was going to convert the trailer from leaf to independednt suspension. Now I'm not sure.

I know leaf is simpler but I reckon there is a reason the "expensive" off-road campers use it, if leaf was better I'm sure they would use them. Also after a few trips across the Simpson & outback I have seen many leaf sprung trailers on the side of the road with the majority of problems being cracked hangers & welds from the corrugations. If I was going to do mostly Alpine, highcountry touring then i reckon leaf would be ok but I still don't think they cut it inthe outback.

[matbor]

If you after ideas for converting a off road trailer to a camper check out some of the pics I have been collecting for ideas !!! There is some good ones there.

http://disco.bordignons.net/images/campertrailers

Matt.

[walker]

Wow. Thanks Matt, there are some great ideas there. I really like the 3e12sb photo, except that I would like to try to dust proof it somehow.

[matbor]

Originally posted by walker
Wow. Thanks Matt, there are some great ideas there. I really like the 3e12sb photo, except that I would like to try to dust proof it somehow.

That's cool, there just some of the ones I have found on ebay and looking around at other websites, gives

You mean this one...
http://disco.bordignons.net/images/campertrailers/3e_12_sb.jpg

I prefer the tradesman type one....
http://disco.bordignons.net/images/campertrailers/camper.JPG


But love this one the best, looks tough, but useless (It's American style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif)...
http://disco.bordignons.net/images/campertrailers/dscf0439.jpg

Matt.

[DiscoStew]

Originally posted by DiscoTDI+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DiscoTDI)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-DiscoStew


I also have a CAMEL GROUP trailer which I don't regret getting. I got the Bushman which is their off-road trailer. DiscoTDI's is a Beachcomber.




The Beachcomber is still an off road trailer, but basically is not designed to do the more heavy duty trips, a simple adjustment of the suspension and it will be right for just about anything. Mind you I will say it has been up the beach through the bush and down some very corrigated crappy roads and has no signs of stress in the chassis or suspension. I prefer the lighter trailer off road as it is much better to tow and I can still carry alot of gear, get alot further than others and use less fuel.

But at the end of the day it is each to their own and what suits there needs.[/b][/quote]

I agree and hope you didn't think I was knocking the beachcomber, I was just pointing out they have different models. In hindsight I think the extra weight will be a problem but people scared the hell out of me with stories of lightweight campers breaking. In my inexperience what I didn't realise was that even though the beachcomber is Camel's lightest trailer, it is certainly not a lightweight trailer. I think Camel understate the Beachcomber capability as an off-roader. I could have saved a few thousand dollars. However there is no point worrying about it after the fact and I am very happy with it.

Have you got an opinion on the seals they use? They are the same on both models.

[DiscoStew]

Originally posted by walker
I know leaf is simpler but I reckon there is a reason the "expensive" off-road campers use it, if leaf was better I'm sure they would use them.

However unlikey it seems, in case you gave my comment on suspension any credibility:


Originally posted by DiscoStew
I am a real novice but I am not sure the assumption about independant suspension being better is correct.

I have no idea what I am talking about re suspension, I just wanted to put it up there to see who salutes, or shoots at it.

[CraigE]

I dont know what your budget is but there are heaps around. Value for money I bought the Cavalier Off Road Deluxe 14 foot version. Folds out to 7x 4 bed on top of camper and 14 x 7 floor space, great with kids or there is a 9 foot version. There is also a schmiko super dooper trailer version but is a couple of k dearer. Your other option is to get a 7x4 trailer custom made to your requirements and then just buy the camper top, most will custom make the drop for you. As far as brakes go unless you are going to heavily load it they are not needed (750kg plus). I am considering modifying the draw bar to put a quad on so I will have to get brakes. If you go electric make sure that you get a type that ironstone will not interfere with as there is a lot of it in the outback (magnetic fields will interfere). You dont need independent suspension, leaf is easier to fix or dodgy up to get home should it get damaged. The reason that a lot of the upmarket ones run this type of suspension is that they have cupboards etc that may be susceptable to vibration. Good luck.