What are these?

[Chris078]

I'm starting to put the dash back in. Wondering what these are.
They look like fuse holders, and inside them looks like a glass fuse except that instead of a little wire inside the glass, it looks like braided material of some sort.
One of them is also getting quite hot. Almost too hot to grab, which I don't like as I just spent two weeks fixing up the wiring behind the fuse box due to a short.
<edit> new album http://imgur.com/a/51HwW

Next thing is that my wiper motor has decided to stop working properly.
It was making a bit of a 'clacking' sound so I took it out and cleaned off the old grease and put some new stuff on.
Naturally I ran into issues. The ground strap that runs to the motor body broke. I made a new one with wire - would that create an issue?

The motor works fine with no blades attached, and with both attached but folded out (not touching the windscreen) It will also work when one blade is down. put both on the windscreen and it will move them maybe 6 inches and then stop. Have to lift one off the windscreen so it can complete the cycle.

Any ideas before I get sick of this thing and call a scrapper? Every time I go to fix something, I end up finding something else or making it worse. I've spent more on this car than what I paid for it, without any major mechanical stuff. just lots of little things. Getting a little tired of it.


<edit more info>
2 things I've just noticed.
1. when the wiper motor is on the Amp meter drops around 1 Amp per cycle. eg 13-12-13-12

2. before (when I noticed the little white fuse holder being hot)I had the charger on . I just flicked the wipers
back on for a minute and it did not head up , only difference is the charger was not on.
I've packed up for today, but I'll test tomorrow with the charger on and see if it heats up again.

[Chris078]

Semi fixed the wiper motor. The nut that you take off to remove the ground strap is attached to a bolt that runs right through the motor. I did not realize this and it was loose at the other end so was not grounding properly.

Still a little slow and clunking like crazy.
Touched that little white fuse thing after running the wiper motor - too hot to touch! something quite wrong there.

[67hardtop]

Ur wiper motor may be poleing out. Caused by worn bushes or brushes may be worn or one brush is not making good contact with the armature causing lots of current draw which would cause the fuse and wiring to overheat and poss catch fire. Wiper motors are fairly cheap. A wiring fire will cost u dearly.

Cheers Rod

Sent from my GT-I9507 using AULRO mobile app

[Chris078]

Ur wiper motor may be poleing out. Caused by worn bushes or brushes may be worn or one brush is not making good contact with the armature causing lots of current draw which would cause the fuse and wiring to overheat and poss catch fire. Wiper motors are fairly cheap. A wiring fire will cost u dearly.

Cheers Rod

Sent from my GT-I9507 using AULRO mobile app


Yeah. I still don't know exactly what caused the last electrical issue. All I know is that the wire that runs from the stop check relay up to the dimmer switch burnt out and did not throw the fuse when it did it.
I was so very, very lucky that it didn't burn down when that happened.
That's why I really want to know what the heck those little white things are.

Correction on them as well. There is no glass. It's just a metal braid that looks very similar to a ground strap.

[67hardtop]

A fuse will only blow if theres a short circuit, not an overheated wire.

Cheers Rod

Sent from my GT-I9507 using AULRO mobile app

[p38arover]

I'm starting to put the dash back in. Wondering what these are.
They look like fuse holders, and inside them looks like a glass fuse except that instead of a little wire inside the glass, it looks like braided material of some sort.

Yes, they are fuse holders and they look like they could be slow blow fuses. Are there any numbers/letters on the end caps?

[BadCo.]

Yes, they are fuse holders and they look like they could be slow blow fuses. Are there any numbers/letters on the end caps?

This was going to be my guess too. Someone could have had nuisance fuse blowing from the dodgy wiper motor and stuck in a slow blow fuse to get around it.

[BadCo.]

A fuse will only blow if theres a short circuit, not an overheated wire.

Cheers Rod

Sent from my GT-I9507 using AULRO mobile app

The fuse is there to protect the cable. Its a poorly designed circuit if the cable is getting hot (outside of its operating temperature) and the fuse ins't blowing.

[Blknight.aus]

high frequency ultra slow blow fuses...

pretty sure they shouldnt be in a landrover.

if they were rated at 10A for where they are supposed to be used (and without going to my books for this stuff so therefore at a guess) in 12V DC land Id expect the instant blow current to be in the order of 50-60 amps

[Chris078]

high frequency ultra slow blow fuses...

pretty sure they shouldnt be in a landrover.

if they were rated at 10A for where they are supposed to be used (and without going to my books for this stuff so therefore at a guess) in 12V DC land Id expect the instant blow current to be in the order of 50-60 amps


Late finish at work last night so I'm only just getting started. It's also muggy as hell here in Brisbane today, so I don't think I'll be getting much done in the garage today.

So, do you know if these fuses (well, the holders anyway) are meant to be there or if someone has added them?
They look very factory fitted to me. colour coded wiring etc.
I don't recall seeing any marking on the fuse itself yesterday.
I'm about to go and pull them to try and work out what they are actually the fuses for, as well as test out having the charger on and seeing if that heats them up at all.

[p38arover]

So, do you know if these fuses (well, the holders anyway) are meant to be there or if someone has added them?
They look very factory fitted to me. colour coded wiring etc.

What colours are the wires? Often, the colours will tell you what the circuits are for.

I can see white/purple (WP) and what may be brown/yellow (NY). Brown is usually power in the Lucas codes used by LR.

WP is power to the fuel pump on a Defender but that probably doesn't apply on a 4BD1. :)

NY is feed from the alternator to the charge light on a Defender. It goes via a diode. I wonder if there's any chance the device is a diode? I wouldn't think so as it would need to be impossible to install it the wrong way around.

[Chris078]

What colours are the wires? Often, the colours will tell you what the circuits are for.

I can see white/purple (WP) and what may be brown/yellow (NY). Brown is usually power in the Lucas codes used by LR.

WP is power to the fuel pump on a Defender but that probably doesn't apply on a 4BD1. :)

NY is feed from the alternator to the charge light on a Defender. It goes via a diode. I wonder if there's any chance the device is a diode? I wouldn't think so as it would need to be impossible to install it the wrong way around.



I'm just about ready to call the wreckers to take this thing and crush it.
The wiring chart I have is virtually unreadable, and does not (as far as I can tell) follow what exists in the car.

The really frustrating thing is that I can disconnect the thing that is overheating, and as far as I can tell, everything still works. Knowing my luck it will be something that won't make itself know until it's way too late.

I think that they might actually be resistors.
if you look here
slap in the middle of the chart is a thing that says Resistor (not fitted). I think mine has them fitted ????
That is the white/purple wire.

What is throwing me is that in mine there are two of these resistor/fuse holder things (the chart shows 1) and the wiring has been split up and loops together again in a way that makes no sense to me.

I'll draw a I diagram and if my scanner still works I'll post it up.

[Chris078]

my scanner is dead. unsurprising, it's about 15 years old.
Check out my MS paint skillz! :D

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/03/366.jpg
To add. the molded plug on the right is one of these (http://www.wiringproducts.com/images/stories/virtuemart/product/4-contact-square-molded-connector-female_61573a.jpg), except is has 8 pins on each side.
disconnect that plug, and the battery, oil and park brake lights do not work.
what's odd is actually two white/black wires come out. One goes off to the ignition switch
the other loops around and goes into the plug directly underneath where the white/purple
line goes in.
on the other side of the plug it goes off to another molded plug that is not connected to anything.

<edit> Note that according to the wiring chart, the yellow/brown wire from the DIODE heads up to the
engine connector and then to the ignition relay. whereas in mine, it goes to the battery ignition light.
http://www.remlr.com/documents/Wiring/VEH%20G103%20ISS%202_3_of_3.pdf
if you zoom right in, it says Ignition W/LT relay. Does anyone know what the W/LT stands for?

[Chris078]

Some progress (maybe).
1. Whatever voltage is going down that 'hot' line, it's more than 10 amp - put a 10 amp fuse in there and it blew.

Interestingly, put a 10 amp fuse in the 'cold' one and it was fine.

2. As per my wiring diagram above. The 'hot' line runs up to the ignition switch. There are 2 lines in a single socket where it plugs into the back of the ignition switch.
If I unplug them, the 'hot' one cools down. There is also a 'clunk' sound from the fuse box as a relay dis engages.

I still don't quite understand, as this indicates that the ignition switch is both pulling power (to heat up the fuse) and sending power (to trip the relay) via the same post - which of course is impossible.

Off to Office works to print off an A2 size of the wiring chart to see if that makes it easier to follow.

i may save this truck from the crushers yet.


<edit> A1 size is the way to go. 59*84cm makes it much easier to follow. $2.30 per sheet is a bargain.
I've ruled out the brake check relay and ignition relay and the ignition indicator light. (disconnected and it still gets hot)

I think it's something that is attached to the ignition light relay (one of the 2 located on the top left of the firewall behind the brake booster)
unplug that and it stays cool. now have to pull the air filter out and see what's going on behind that.

[p38arover]

I'll give you a tenner for the heap of junk! :angel:

[67hardtop]

Ill give u 20😆😆😆😆

Cheers Rod

Sent from my GT-I9507 using AULRO mobile app

[Chris078]

Keep bidding! increase that bid by 1000 times and I'll almost break even on this thing.

I've made some discoveries.
1. Half the wiring under the dash & in the harness does not actually do anything.

2. That 'fuse' only heats up when the ignition is in the 'on' position.
Start it, and it cools off again.

3. It is definitely something in (or attached to) the ignition w/lt relay.
If I unplug that, the fuse doesn't heat up.

4. re-confirming that as far as I can tell. Unplugging it does not actually stop anything working. I'm stumped.

Currently drawing up an updated wiring diagram with my discoveries about which wires are actually used and where they go.
Hopefully someone will have a bright idea.

[67hardtop]

Might be for the glow plugs.

Cheers Rod

Sent from my GT-I9507 using AULRO mobile app

[Chris078]

107128

[atwood]

Ignition w/lt surely has to be the ignition warning light.
Sounds like when your ignition warning light is on (or is supposed to be on), your mystery item tries to ignite your vehicle.

[Dervish]

I'm starting to put the dash back in. Wondering what these are.
They look like fuse holders, and inside them looks like a glass fuse except that instead of a little wire inside the glass, it looks like braided material of some sort.
One of them is also getting quite hot. Almost too hot to grab, which I don't like as I just spent two weeks fixing up the wiring behind the fuse box due to a short.
<edit> new album What are these? - Album on Imgur (http://imgur.com/a/51HwW)


Sorry I'm late to the party. Chris, just leave the "fuse" out. That little "fuse" you found is actually a fusible resistor, it is usually a part of the operation of the warning light. Looking at the schematic now it looks like it is not an essential part; I think perhaps it is a part of the V8 harness and redundant with the W/LT relay and 3 pin alternator as used with the 4BD1. In an older alternator setup, the warning light also functions as the IGN feed; the resistor provides an alternate source if the bulb blows.

Replacing the fusible resistor with a fuse will always result in the fuse popping, unless you use a really large fuse.

Oh, W/LT is warning light. The relay disconnects the warning light from earth once the alternator comes online.

As the schematic says, the resistor should probably have been removed at the assembly line. I'll check if mine still has the fusible resistor there one day. Bottom line is, it isn't doing any harm being there (except getting warm).

[Chris078]

Sorry I'm late to the party. Chris, just leave the "fuse" out. That little "fuse" you found is actually a fusible resistor, it is usually a part of the operation of the warning light. Looking at the schematic now it looks like it is not an essential part; I think perhaps it is a part of the V8 harness and redundant with the W/LT relay and 3 pin alternator as used with the 4BD1. In an older alternator setup, the warning light also functions as the IGN feed; the resistor provides an alternate source if the bulb blows.

Replacing the fusible resistor with a fuse will always result in the fuse popping, unless you use a really large fuse.

Oh, W/LT is warning light. The relay disconnects the warning light from earth once the alternator comes online.

As the schematic says, the resistor should probably have been removed at the assembly line. I'll check if mine still has the fusible resistor there one day. Bottom line is, it isn't doing any harm being there (except getting warm).

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D:D:D:D:D

You are awesome!

Is that heat something you would expect from such a thing?
and getting hot only when ignition on but not started, would that be what you would expect?


It would be very much worth checking your vehicle to see if they are in there. If left for more than a minute, it gets too hot to touch.
I really cannot understand why/how it had not caused a fire to be honest.

To check, remove the instrument binnacle and shine a torch down the bottom left , you will see the fuse holders down there. (maybe, mine were covered in mud and underneath the main harness - very hard to see)


I was hesitant to unplug it just in case that stopped something from working though would cause something to fail. It seemed weird that something that is obviously pulling power could be disconnected without disabling something.

Thanks again!

<edit> I'll hit you up next time I'm up the coast. I owe you a beer :)

[Dervish]

Is that heat something you would expect from such a thing?


Yes, it is basically a light bulb that doesn't light up so it will get to a similar temp.



and getting hot only when ignition on but not started, would that be what you would expect?


Yes, power is supplied to both the light and the fusible resistor via the AUX position on the ignition switch. They are both then earthed through a NC relay (the warning light relay) that is fed switch signal from the alternator output. Once the alternator is generating the warning light relay opens; the circuit is disconnected and so the fusible resistor and the warning light both cool down.



<edit> I'll hit you up next time I'm up the coast. I owe you a beer :)


Any time :)

[Chris078]

I'll get up there one day Dervish!
Thanks for the advice.

I got the electrics back together and taped up again today.
Everything works, which is nice.
Will put the dash back in on the weekend.

What are peoples thoughts on spaying some oil (fisholene/lanolin) into the holes to coat the inside of that hollow, inaccessible part that runs along the top of the Firewall, just below the vent flaps?

That seems to be where many Landies rust out, and since I have everything out, if there is something I can do to protect that area, I may as well do it.

[LieutenantRover]

Ignition w/lt surely has to be the ignition warning light.
Sounds like when your ignition warning light is on (or is supposed to be on), your mystery item tries to ignite your vehicle.

Work light probably. The red and black sockets

[Chris078]

Work light probably. The red and black sockets

It's the Battery Warning light.
It's for that little battery light in the instrument panel.
This relay is one of the two on the firewall up behind the brake booster.

I have no idea what the other relay is. I suspect it has something to do with the blackout lights.

Also may have found the source of my original (shorted wire) problem
Noticed one of the relays in the fusebox was getting very hot. The one that the shorted wire was originally attached to.
Popped on a spare Narva relay which remained cool.
The one I took off was dated 1989. The others are as well, so a trip to Supercheap is order to replace the rest on the weekend.

[BadCo.]

I'll get up there one day Dervish!
Thanks for the advice.

I got the electrics back together and taped up again today.
Everything works, which is nice.
Will put the dash back in on the weekend.

What are peoples thoughts on spaying some oil (fisholene/lanolin) into the holes to coat the inside of that hollow, inaccessible part that runs along the top of the Firewall, just below the vent flaps?

That seems to be where many Landies rust out, and since I have everything out, if there is something I can do to protect that area, I may as well do it.

Just to clarify, what do you mean by taped?

[Chris078]

Just to clarify, what do you mean by taped?

Taped, as in taped the loom up again. Had to remove all the tape that holds it in a bunch in order to trace where things go.
Don't worry, I didn't use electrical tape (though the factory did) i bought some proper fabric wiring harness tape.

[BadCo.]

Good man!