Legality of removing rear seats - NSW

[~Rich~]

Hi Guys,
For those who are concerned about removing their rear seats in a 7 seater D3/D4:

Removal of seats and RMS's response.
At some stage in our 4WD life we would like to carry more stuff. So we typically remove seats. There
has been many a discussion on the net and around camp fires about the legality of doing such
'modifications?. I thought I would ask the RMS for their view. Here is there answer:
I am making enquires on behalf of our 4WD club about seat removal either permanent or temporary
and seek your comments.
An example would be a 100 series Landcruiser where the third row of seats clips out and the second
(middle) row can be removed by unbolting them
I understand in this case that removing the third row permanently requires no approval
removing the second row of seats on a temporary basis does not require approval but on a permanent
basis it does.
Is the above correct? How long is temporary?
Second example a 200 series Landcruiser where the third and second (middle) row of seats
can be removed by unbolting them.
I understand in this case that removing any seats on a temporary basis does not require approval but
on a permanent basis it does. Is the above correct?
Many thanks Brian.

Hi Brian
Typically removing seats and changing the seating capacity of a vehicle will require an inspection by
an AUVIS examiner for an adjustment of records, seating capacity. This would not be a problem with
removing the 3rd row seats from a 100 series cruiser as the manufacturer supplied them to the market
in both 7 and 5 seat configurations.
There is no definition available for temporary seat removal. If seats were unbolted the seating
capacity has changed.
Regards
Graeme Snell
Team Leader
Technical Enquiries
Accreditation
Safety & Compliance
T 1300 137 302
Roads and Maritime Services
2 B 99 Phillip St Parramatta NSW 2150
Home - Roads and Maritime Services (http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au)

[jonesy63]

Hypothetically, if you had a drawer setup over the top of where the rear 2 seats in a D3/D4, they wouldn't have a problem - as they couldn't tell if they were removed. :wasntme: :D

[LandyAndy]

So.D4s are available as a 7 and 5 seater(special order in WA) removal of the rear row temporary or not is legal????
I ditched mine soon after buying it.Ive made a fridge unit but dont use it,my 80lt engel sits nicely across the back an the lower floor level nicely.
Andrew

[RHS58]

In Qld, I took out the rear seats from my old Prado.
Installed a drawer system.
This is seen a as a permanent modification, as the drawers are bolted in.
ARB didn't tell me this.

To sell the Prado I needed a Safety Certificate. To obtain this, with drawers in situ, I had to remove the third row seatbelts, and get a Modification Plate.
Alternatively, the drawers had to be removed and seats reinstalled.

I went with the latter option. Sold the Prado as a 7 seater (which it was always registered as). The new owner got the drawers, to install as he wished, or not, complying with regs, or not.

I know of a blitz after an event at LandCruiser Park in SE Qld where the boys in blue fined numerous 4x4 drivers who had removed 3rd row seats and had drawers installed, without mod plates.

Be aware of your state regulations.

Cheers
Ron

[Disco-tastic]

I dont understand what the problem is removing seats? The issues with adding seats is logical, but what issues are their with removing? How is it more dangerous for anyone?

Cheers

Dan

[JDNSW]

I can see the problem possibly arising where , for example, a seat has been removed, but the vehicle can legally still seat the people in that seat.

But in reality, for example, I need to remove eight bolts to remove the side seats plus the second row seats in my 110. In theory, I need to get the vehicle inspected and the seven seat belts removed. And inspected again on their reinstallation.

But it takes about ten minutes to remove the seats. How about the case where I remove them to fit a lot of stuff in on Sunday morning, make a trip to a sale, then reinstall the seats that afternoon. Are they seriously suggesting I should get the car replated at 0700 Sunday morning and then again at 2100 Sunday night? If so, I suggest they need a reality check.

Or, some time in the near future, I will have to remove the second row seat to get it reupholstered. Am I expected to get it replated while driving round for the week or two while this is being done, and then repeat the process? And if so, how about the drive to and from the upholsterer with the seat not installed?

John

[p38arover]

how about the drive to and from the upholsterer with the seat not installed?

John

'Tis a good thing I wasn't seen driving my Hillman Hunter to the spray painter when it had no seats and no windows. I sat on a milk crate but I was wearing my seat belt. :D

[Mick_Marsh]

'Tis a good thing I wasn't seen driving my Hillman Hunter to the spray painter when it had no seats and no windows. I sat on a milk crate but I was wearing my seat belt. :D
What year was the Hillman? If it was pre '72, it probably didn't need seat belts.

[p38arover]

What year was the Hillman? If it was pre '72, it probably didn't need seat belts.

1971 - but it had seat belts so they had to be worn.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/03/131.jpg

[kogvos]

I dont understand what the problem is removing seats? The issues with adding seats is logical, but what issues are their with removing? How is it more dangerous for anyone?

Cheers

Dan
It's killing the kittens. Won't anyone think of the kittens?

[RHS58]

I dont understand what the problem is removing seats? The issues with adding seats is logical, but what issues are their with removing? How is it more dangerous for anyone?

Cheers

Dan

Common sense has nothing to do with it.
If an over zealous copper wants to get you on a technicality.......


Ron

[AndyG]

Um going back 45 years,
A td mg, no seats, no doors, no floor,
A quick lap around the block, it's running oh joy :o
Local walloper, go home, do not get $200, and stay there :D

[kogvos]

Um going back 45 years,
A td mg, no seats, no doors, no floor,

Luxury! Back when I was a lad...

[IvanR]

In Victoria the situation regards seats has now changed. No notification is needed if removing seats.
see Vicroads info at www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/registration/vehicle-modifications-and-defects/vehicle-modifications/removing-adding-and-replacing-seats

Ivan

[worane]

OK, Ivan. Now what happens if you drive it interstate?

[IvanR]

It should not be a problem Worane.
My understanding is that the certification is a requirement for registration in NSW. If the vehicle is reg in Vic it only needs to meet Vic requirements. Unless you spend more than 90 continuous days in NSW.

Ivan

[PhilipA]

Geez mate the odds of getting caught for something like that are remote.

These RMS engineers seem to live in cloud cuckoo land.
Regards Philip A

[Mick_Marsh]

Geez mate the odds of getting caught for something like that are remote.

These RMS engineers seem to live in cloud cuckoo land.
Regards Philip A
It would have been Mr. Plod (NSW branch) stopping the vehicle and defecting it. The the owner would have taken the vehicle to the RMS who would have said "This is a Victorian registered vehicle. We have no jurisdiction. Pay for my time, please."

As the "lights on roof" thread has shown, not all of the boys in blue are schooled up on the application of the ADRs.

[JDNSW]

For an example as to what can happen, on my last trip to Victoria last year, I was stopped (NSW registered vehicle) by the boys in blue, who informed me that the Landrover steps on my 110 were illegal if in the down position while driving in Victoria. They were fitted to the vehicle as standard factory accessories in Victoria, while the vehicle was registered in Victoria in 1993. I have been driving with it in Victoria on and off ever since probably more often with them down that not. (Been NSW registered since 1995, was inspected by RTA when moved here and has been inspected annually ever since), and this was a first.

John

[Mick_Marsh]

For an example as to what can happen, on my last trip to Victoria last year, I was stopped (NSW registered vehicle) by the boys in blue, who informed me that the Landrover steps on my 110 were illegal if in the down position while driving in Victoria. They were fitted to the vehicle as standard factory accessories in Victoria, while the vehicle was registered in Victoria in 1993. I have been driving with it in Victoria on and off ever since probably more often with them down that not. (Been NSW registered since 1995, was inspected by RTA when moved here and has been inspected annually ever since), and this was a first.

John
I'd love to see where that rule is printed in legislation.

[JDNSW]

I'd love to see where that rule is printed in legislation.

What they quoted was that they extend about an inch outside the mudguard flares (but well inside the line of the mirrors).

John

[cafe latte]

I dont understand what the problem is removing seats? The issues with adding seats is logical, but what issues are their with removing? How is it more dangerous for anyone?

Cheers

Dan
I understand your point, but I also understand why the regs exist. I am a fire fighter and road crash is one of the things we have to study and a course we must complete. Some cars for example have roll over protection bars/ hoops blasting out of the seats in the event of a rollover to maintain a survival space for the occupants. I agree in most cases a seat removal wont matter, but this sort of thing, needs to be checked as in some cars removing a seat will compromise the cars safety.
Chris

[Silenceisgolden]

1971 - but it had seat belts so they had to be worn.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/03/131.jpg

My Triumph 2500 failed a roadworthy check in Victoria because the seatbelts were worn. I showed him on the rego papers where it said "Seat belts must be worn". He then passed it.......:D

[Grahame Roberts]

It’s a bigger problem if you move interstate and re-register the vehicle. You virtually have to restore the vehicle to its original registered condition for it to be certified. After that, it’s ‘russian roulette’.

[Tombie]

What they quoted was that they extend about an inch outside the mudguard flares (but well inside the line of the mirrors).

John

They were just yanking your chain and trying it on.

No sharp edges and inside overall profile is all good.