Solar feed-in tariff

[jx2mad]

I just received a letter from the Govt stating that my subsidized feed-in tariff stops at the end of December this year. It seems that we now have to negotiate with suppliers. The letter also suggested we have a smart meter fitted to help us spread our load.I do not want to go that way. Is there any way of diverting the solar output for house use during the day without using storage batteries?

[cafe latte]

I just received a letter from the Govt stating that my subsidized feed-in tariff stops at the end of December this year. It seems that we now have to negotiate with suppliers. The letter also suggested we have a smart meter fitted to help us spread our load.I do not want to go that way. Is there any way of diverting the solar output for house use during the day without using storage batteries?

Newer batteries are very good and they last years and years, to be honest it might just be the best way to go.
I currently get 44 cents a kw, and that should continue for a few years, but if I get offered 4 cents or something equally silly when my contract finishes it would not cover my own power bill so it will be batteries for me.
Chris

[bee utey]

Is there any way of diverting the solar output for house use during the day without using storage batteries?
Not without a rewire and a new meter. The solar inverter has to be connected to the demand (house) side of the meter for you to be able to use it instead of the grid. Without a meter change you will be charged for input as well as output as the current meter can't tell the difference. This will be a huge and expensive problem for NSW solar owners to go from gross FITs to net FITs. There simply aren't enough qualified meter fitters available, as well as a lack of meters. It's a policy disaster.

South Australia doesn't have this problem as we only got net FITs and any power you use during the day will simply reduce the pathetic feed in rate you would get on a system installed after the premium FIT.

[Homestar]

You will have to change the way you use your solar now. With the basically zero amount you will get on your new FIT, you are best off load shifting bigger loads to the day - your dishwasher, washing machine, etc - put them on timers if you're not going to be home and use as much as you can while the sun is out.

The other thing you can do - if you have a storage type hot water service - be it electric or gas - is to install a small element seperate to the main heating unit and run this when you're not using much power for anything else.

There are plenty of things you can do to keep your electricity bills low with a low FIT - you just need to flip your thinking. :)

[Vern]

Just load shift everything as Gav has said to the day time tarriff. Or spend some coin and install a hybrid inverter and batteries. This is what i would do, but as i'm selling my place, the next one is going offgrid

[Homestar]

Was just looking at a hybrid inverter and 7KWh battery bank today (Lead Acid, not Lithium) as it happens... Thinking hard about it... :D

[Mick_Marsh]

as i'm selling my place, the next one is going offgrid
Would love to hear what you install, it's performance and your experiences.

[Vern]

Would probably be a Selectronics Sp pro and ABB inverter, and gel batteries. Tried and tested, unlike lithium, which i a lot of money to "experiment" with

[Mick_Marsh]

Is it possible to convert to other battery technology (such as lithium) when the batteries are due for replacement?

[Vern]

Was just looking at a hybrid inverter and 7KWh battery bank today (Lead Acid, not Lithium) as it happens... Thinking hard about it... :D
What sort of coin?

[Homestar]

Been quoted around $14K for 5KW of solar and the 7KWh battery bank, hybrid inverter, etc, but that's the first place I called. That doesn't include installation and although I have a mate that is Solar Certified, you need someone who is battery certified to do that side of it apparently and there aren't too many of those people around yet - I may look into what is involved and do the course myself yet - it may be a good little sideline. :D

Mick, as for converting to Lithium later on - the chargers would be different as would the algorithms for the battery discharge cycle, so I doubt it, but upgrading that isn't beyond the realms of possibility.

Lead acid is a tried and tested technology - in a home, there are no gains to be had from the weight savings of Lithium so that negates most of the gains IMO. The batteries I'm looking at give over 2,500 cycles - the 7KWh is a true 7KWh - that is with a discharge of 60% at which point the unit cuts the batteries out of the system until they are charged again. That 2,500 cycles is before degredation starts to become a really limiting factor, but that's the best part of 7 years, which is about right.

It isn't pretty like the Tesla Powerwall, the batteries sit in an IP rated enclosure outside near the switchboard - cabinet is 1500 high, 1200 wide and 400 deep. You won't even see them where I'll put them if I go ahead - they will be behind a fence on the dead side of the house.

Still lots to think about before I jump in, but the gears are turning. :)

At those prices, payback is borderline by the time the batteries will need replacing, but that's not the only reason I'm looking at it. With the built in functionality of a UPS in the inverter, power outages become almost a non issue - the system would run the fridge, and a couple of lights almost indefinately. It will be a good test to see what you can live without should you want to go off grid - which I'll almost certainly do down the track when we move to the country later on.

The physical limitations of a suburban block will stop me doing this until I move to the country - there just isn't enough room for all the panels I'd need where I am now to tell the power companies to bugger off completely, nor have I yet curbed my electricity usage - the Spa is the biggest culprit now - costs me around $3 a day to run that sucker now - was less than $1 a day when it was first purchased.

[rovercare]

Is it possible to convert to other battery technology (such as lithium) when the batteries are due for replacement?

Just change charge parameters in inverter charger, easy

[rovercare]

Would love to hear what you install, it's performance and your experiences.

The difference between a poor performing off grid and a good one is Generator run time, that's it:D

[rovercare]

Not without a rewire and a new meter. The solar inverter has to be connected to the demand (house) side of the meter for you to be able to use it instead of the grid. Without a meter change you will be charged for input as well as output as the current meter can't tell the difference. This will be a huge and expensive problem for NSW solar owners to go from gross FITs to net FITs. There simply aren't enough qualified meter fitters available, as well as a lack of meters. It's a policy disaster.

South Australia doesn't have this problem as we only got net FITs and any power you use during the day will simply reduce the pathetic feed in rate you would get on a system installed after the premium FIT.

How are the Gross meter to Net meters wired in NSW? but yes needs to be moved to Net and load shift, Immersur or AWS make units for immersion control

[rovercare]

Been quoted around $14K for 5KW of solar and the 7KWh battery bank, hybrid inverter, etc, but that's the first place I called. d.

It will be rubbish:)

[mick88]

nor have I yet curbed my electricity usage - the Spa is the biggest culprit now - costs me around $3 a day to run that sucker now - was less than $1 a day when it was first purchased.
Gav, a pond pump and 25 metres of 12mm dia poly laying through the garden and our spa gets up to 33 degrees after about two days.


Cheers, Mick.

[cafe latte]

Gav, a pond pump and 25 metres of 12mm dia poly laying through the garden and our spa gets up to 33 degrees after about two days.


Cheers, Mick.

I now have a commercial solar hot water system, but in our last house I built one, it was a serpentine of copper pipe in a case made of capping with a steel sheet for the back and a perspex sheet (a piece I had) for the front. The water got so hot it boiled. a similar set up with a solar pond pump and your spa will be as hot as you want for free.
Chris

[AndyG]

For off grid, what would a good small diesel gen set cost, preferably with a low voltage auto start cost, to supplement the panels ?

[Homestar]

For off grid, what would a good small diesel gen set cost, preferably with a low voltage auto start cost, to supplement the panels ?

A good, single phase unit of around 8 to 10KVA in a silenced canopy with auto start capability would be around $10 to 12KK of you want it to last 20 years. I'd go for a Kubota powered unit - we have 100's of these in our fleet and they are bullet proof reliable - we have units in the fleet with over 30,000 hours on them - and the engines have never been touched apart from servicing.

[Corgie Carrier]

Be careful with lithium batteries.
A guy I know talked to his insurance mob about going off grid and using lithium batteries.
They told him they would not insure his house because of the fire risk. Apparently lithium batteries cannot be put out if they catch fire.

Is this true??
Has anyone else heard this?

I don't know much about them, but this sounds a bit unusual to me. Why would people be putting them in their cars if they cannot be put out when on fire?

[cafe latte]

Be careful with lithium batteries.
A guy I know talked to his insurance mob about going off grid and using lithium batteries.
They told him they would not insure his house because of the fire risk. Apparently lithium batteries cannot be put out if they catch fire.

Is this true??
Has anyone else heard this?

I don't know much about them, but this sounds a bit unusual to me. Why would people be putting them in their cars if they cannot be put out when on fire?

Electric cars are a new section in the fire fighter training we are sort of feeling our way as the cars change. Mag wheels for example have always been an issue in car fires, and Lithium reacts with water so water will make the fire worse. Class D will extinguish Lithium batteries, but it would not be easy if the battery got going. In a car fire I would use water and foam and try to keep the fire away from the battery and I would isolate it and keep the orange wires cool if I was able to isolate the battery to reduce the risk of shorting. The battery catching fire is only one safety issue the very high voltage the batteries carry is a big risk to both the occupants and the emergency services in a crash.
Regards
Chris

[Pedro_The_Swift]

It will be rubbish:)

Is that the technical term?:p

recommendations?:confused:

[AndyG]

Remember The Boeing Dreamlner dramas with lithium.
If in a domestic situation I suppose you would want pysical separation from the house and fire resistant barriers, which is not how they are sold

[rovercare]

Is that the technical term?:p

recommendations?:confused:

There is heaps of cheap nasty stuff, its quite the australian way to be extremely tight fisted on purchases that they wish to last a lifetime, house fixtures etc but frivolously spend on cars, technology, media etc

Selectronics Sp pro

AC coupled, ABB inverter/s, Radiant racking, Suntech panels, IPD isolators

BAE, Hoppecke, Sonnenschein batteries

[Pinelli]

Be careful with lithium batteries.
A guy I know talked to his insurance mob about going off grid and using lithium batteries.
They told him they would not insure his house because of the fire risk. Apparently lithium batteries cannot be put out if they catch fire.

Is this true??
Has anyone else heard this?

I don't know much about them, but this sounds a bit unusual to me. Why would people be putting them in their cars if they cannot be put out when on fire?

The big advantage of lithium batteries is that they are light, and saving weight means you can go further, faster, on the same amount of stored energy.