Ex ADF LT95A gearboxes

[Bearman]

In the last month I have dismantled and recoed 3 gearboxes that have come from the AFM auctions. All 3 have had at least a couple of serious problems that probably necessitated the changeout.
1......All 3 have had the input shaft bearing lock tabs bent indicating that they have been installed incorrectly I.E. pulled together with the bellhousing bolts instead of manually making sure they are fully seated in the spigot bush BEFORE tightening the bolts. This results in excessive shaft endfloat when you power on or back off throttle and thrusts the input shaft into the 3/4 gear synchro hub resulting in failure/excessive wear of the thrust bearings/washers on 3rd gear.
2.....Transfer case input gear (the one on the end of the mainshaft that drives the transfer case gears and the winch pto) NOT loctited in place resulting in excessive gear and mainshaft spline wear.
3......Reverse gear idler incorrectly adjusted resulting in tooth damage and ultimately failure of the idler and layshft and 1/2 synchro hub.
4......Some still have the earlier type intermediate shaft assembly bits which are more prone to jumping out of gear if not set up correctly and and all 3 have had a finger tight intermediate shaft bolt torque setting. I.E finger tight instead of torqued to 125 ft/lb. I would urge anyone who has a perentie to check these. Easy enough to check. If your gear lever moves back/forward when you accelerate/decelerate in 3rd or 4th gear it indicates movement in the spigot shaft which is most likely the lock tabs bent on assembly.
Check the transfer case for sloppiness, it could be the centre diff thrust washers/gears or the input shaft gear/splines - if your pull the rear cover or the 3rd axle drive off (6X6 only)you can see if it's the gear/splines by rotating the shaft and watching the play or sloppiness.
Check the torque setting on the intermediate shaft bolt. It WILL result in jumping out of gear and eventual failure of the complete shaft if not torqued correctly.

[Barefoot Dave]

Thanks for the heads up, Brian.
valuable information!

[dingsy]

In the last month I have dismantled and recoed 3 gearboxes that have come from the AFM auctions. All 3 have had at least a couple of serious problems that probably necessitated the changeout. 1......All 3 have had the input shaft bearing lock tabs bent indicating that they have been installed incorrectly I.E. pulled together with the bellhousing bolts instead of manually making sure they are fully seated in the spigot bush BEFORE tightening the bolts. This results in excessive shaft endfloat when you power on or back off throttle and thrusts the input shaft into the 3/4 gear synchro hub resulting in failure/excessive wear of the thrust bearings/washers on 3rd gear. 2.....Transfer case input gear (the one on the end of the mainshaft that drives the transfer case gears and the winch pto) NOT loctited in place resulting in excessive gear and mainshaft spline wear. 3......Reverse gear idler incorrectly adjusted resulting in tooth damage and ultimately failure of the idler and layshft and 1/2 synchro hub. 4......Some still have the earlier type intermediate shaft assembly bits which are more prone to jumping out of gear if not set up correctly and and all 3 have had a finger tight intermediate shaft bolt torque setting. I.E finger tight instead of torqued to 125 ft/lb. I would urge anyone who has a perentie to check these. Easy enough to check. If your gear lever moves back/forward when you accelerate/decelerate in 3rd or 4th gear it indicates movement in the spigot shaft which is most likely the lock tabs bent on assembly. Check the transfer case for sloppiness, it could be the centre diff thrust washers/gears or the input shaft gear/splines - if your pull the rear cover or the 3rd axle drive off (6X6 only)you can see if it's the gear/splines by rotating the shaft and watching the play or sloppiness. Check the torque setting on the intermediate shaft bolt. It WILL result in jumping out of gear and eventual failure of the complete shaft if not torqued correctly.

Thanks Bearman - I often wonder why my perentie is on it's third LT95 at 120k....

[Chris078]

watching with interest.
The gearbox in mine is as far as I can tell, the original one with 150k on it.
It's a bit sick. I've pulled teeth out of the filter the first two oil changes, plus a large glob on the magnet plug. The synchro on 2nd is dying, so sooner rather than later I'm going to have to drop $$$$ on new gearbox and clutch.

It would be nice to know the correct installation procedure so it doesn't get ruined before you even start the motor!

[Jimmy93]

Thanks Brian,

Just checked how my front bearing was seated and moves back and forward a few mm with the input shaft.
Glad i realized before i got it in

cheers

[camel58]

My 6x6 is jumping out of first gear in low range would the above be causing this or is it something else .

[87County]

Other workshops I know have also found problems with the ex ADF gearboxes.

It looks as if you'll have as much part time work on these as you want Brian :).

[Bearman]

My 6x6 is jumping out of first gear in low range would the above be causing this or is it something else .

First gear or low range. Unusual to jump out of gear in low and not hi range.
Could be that there is excessive wear/endfloat on the mainshaft causing it. Any other symptoms, grating 1st gear etc.

[Bearman]

Other workshops I know have also found problems with the ex ADF gearboxes.

It looks as if you'll have as much part time work on these as you want Brian :).

Possibly too much!!!
I am trying to retire :D

[Chris078]

Possibly too much!!!
I am trying to retire :D


Not too soon I hope!
If you're still at it in a year or so my plan is to drive up there to get my box rebuilt and get a new clutch installed.
Just gotta get the time and the coin (standard life problems!)

[rar110]

Possibly too much!!! I am trying to retire :D

You're not doing a very good job at being retired. 😄

[debruiser]

You're not doing a very good job at being retired. 😄

Agreed, whenever I call him he's at work or at least busy....

[camel58]

No other symptoms just jumps out of first gear low range going down steep hills.

[Chris078]

..Some still have the earlier type intermediate shaft assembly bits which are more prone to jumping out of gear if not set up correctly and and all 3 have had a finger tight intermediate shaft bolt torque setting. I.E finger tight instead of torqued to 125 ft/lb. I would urge anyone who has a perentie to check these. Easy enough to check. If your gear lever moves back/forward when you accelerate/decelerate in 3rd or 4th gear it indicates movement in the spigot shaft which is most likely the lock tabs bent on assembly.
Check the transfer case for sloppiness, it could be the centre diff thrust washers/gears or the input shaft gear/splines - if your pull the rear cover or the 3rd axle drive off (6X6 only)you can see if it's the gear/splines by rotating the shaft and watching the play or sloppiness.
Check the torque setting on the intermediate shaft bolt. It WILL result in jumping out of gear and eventual failure of the complete shaft if not torqued correctly.


Quick question about this part. Noticed this morning on my way to work that in 3rd gear the lever moves back/forth a little when accelerating. Maybe 1cm total. Doesn't appear to do it in 4th, only 3rd.
It that something to be expected on a 150K box (according to the log, this box is original). No other symptoms really.

[Bearman]

..Some still have the earlier type intermediate shaft assembly bits which are more prone to jumping out of gear if not set up correctly and and all 3 have had a finger tight intermediate shaft bolt torque setting. I.E finger tight instead of torqued to 125 ft/lb. I would urge anyone who has a perentie to check these. Easy enough to check. If your gear lever moves back/forward when you accelerate/decelerate in 3rd or 4th gear it indicates movement in the spigot shaft which is most likely the lock tabs bent on assembly.
Check the transfer case for sloppiness, it could be the centre diff thrust washers/gears or the input shaft gear/splines - if your pull the rear cover or the 3rd axle drive off (6X6 only)you can see if it's the gear/splines by rotating the shaft and watching the play or sloppiness.
Check the torque setting on the intermediate shaft bolt. It WILL result in jumping out of gear and eventual failure of the complete shaft if not torqued correctly.


Quick question about this part. Noticed this morning on my way to work that in 3rd gear the lever moves back/forth a little when accelerating. Maybe 1cm total. Doesn't appear to do it in 4th, only 3rd.
It that something to be expected on a 150K box (according to the log, this box is original). No other symptoms really.

Quite possible Chris, Most of them have had a pretty hard life at 150k and there is probably some wear in the thrusts giving that movement you have.

[Outback]

How much should i expect to pay for a rebuilt unit or to have one rebuilt and installed properly? New clutch and all. Thanks.

[Bearman]

How much should i expect to pay for a rebuilt unit or to have one rebuilt and installed properly? New clutch and all. Thanks.

Depends on what has to be replaced. Anywhere between 3 - 10K at a guestimate!

[Blknight.aus]

assuming the case is all good and you have to replace everything... with all the smart to replace while your at it bits..

thats $6k in parts.

[Chris078]

How much should i expect to pay for a rebuilt unit or to have one rebuilt and installed properly? New clutch and all. Thanks.


Actually dropped into Rover Care in Slacks Creek yesterday. Paul there has a current contract to re-build the boxes for the military. Asked him about price. A full re-build using all genuine Land Rover parts = 13-15k!
Luckily you normally will not have to replace everything, which vastly reduces the price.
Remember too, that's the box only, the transfer case is a whole additional hit to the wallet.


A clutch kit (from reading here) will run you $700-1000.
A clutch job alone is a $2000 job parts and labor.

[Chris078]

Quite possible Chris, Most of them have had a pretty hard life at 150k and there is probably some wear in the thrusts giving that movement you have.


Is that something that is relatively easy/cheap to fix?

It's going to see Paul @ rover care (Current military re-builder)in a couple of weeks, we'll see what he has to say.
I'm not inclined to throw money at this box, just keep it going until it won't go anymore.


I spoke to him about the issues you raised in the OP and he says those failed boxes universally come from (a large commercial contractor that cannot be mentioned for legal reasons) that the Military no longer uses for that reason ( amongst others)

[Bearman]

If you have to remove/clean/disassemble and repair it nothing is going to be cheap Chris. Just to remove, clean and disassemble it will take a couple of days if done properly. That's a lot of labour cost then there is the cost of any parts, reassemble and reinstall plus the new clutch, machine the flywheel, new rear engine seal, modified pivot, new slave and master while you're at it. I think I know of the mob Paul talked about.

[Chris078]

If you have to remove/clean/disassemble and repair it nothing is going to be cheap Chris. Just to remove, clean and disassemble it will take a couple of days if done properly. That's a lot of labour cost then there is the cost of any parts, reassemble and reinstall plus the new clutch, machine the flywheel, new rear engine seal, modified pivot, new slave and master while you're at it. I think I know of the mob Paul talked about.

Thanks Brian
Just replaced the clutch master and slave so that's a couple less things.

Pretty sure I'm just going to leave it. As you say, any work on a box is a huge job, which makes maintenance not really financially viable. reckon I just keep driving it till it dies !

It doesn't make any noise and changes fairly smoothly. tossing up weather to change to VMX 80 or 75/90 gear oil instead of the engine oil to eek out some more life from the box.
I've had a few people try and talk me into it, but I'm yet to be convinced.

[Outback]

My plan was to have both of the Perenties getting fresh new clutches, pressure plates and throw out bearings. While that was pulled I would have new main seals installed. I didn't think about having the Flywheel machined but will now. I also didn't know about modifying the pivot so that would also need to be done plus the new slave and master cylinder while its out. I would want both the trans and T case gone thru to make sure they are in top shape. I want these vehicles to last while we are out in the bush. I definitely don't want to have any mechanical issues that could have been avoided with a thourogh going over. Thank you guys for your help. Getting closer to Australia every day. This years work will determine when I can leave. Hope its a busy year for me.

[Bearman]

Thanks Brian
Just replaced the clutch master and slave so that's a couple less things.

Pretty sure I'm just going to leave it. As you say, any work on a box is a huge job, which makes maintenance not really financially viable. reckon I just keep driving it till it dies !

It doesn't make any noise and changes fairly smoothly. tossing up weather to change to VMX 80 or 75/90 gear oil instead of the engine oil to eek out some more life from the box.
I've had a few people try and talk me into it, but I'm yet to be convinced.

Chris, DEFINITELY don't put gear oil in the gearbox - it won't last long if you do. The thicker oil destroys the oil pump drive shaft (it's made out of Bakelite type material) and the mainshaft will suffer from oil starvation on the thrusts and rollers. There is a replacement steel oil pump available that I fit when I do a box. If I were you I would be looking for a s/hand military box (maybe from the auctions) and slowly go through it and have it ready to fit by the time yours dies. Otherwise get yours fixed up properly before too much goes wrong inside. The replacement gears are starting to get frightfully expensive these days.

[Bearman]

My plan was to have both of the Perenties getting fresh new clutches, pressure plates and throw out bearings. While that was pulled I would have new main seals installed. I didn't think about having the Flywheel machined but will now. I also didn't know about modifying the pivot so that would also need to be done plus the new slave and master cylinder while its out. I would want both the trans and T case gone thru to make sure they are in top shape. I want these vehicles to last while we are out in the bush. I definitely don't want to have any mechanical issues that could have been avoided with a thourogh going over. Thank you guys for your help. Getting closer to Australia every day. This years work will determine when I can leave. Hope its a busy year for me.

Don't forget the spigot bush in the crankshaft while you are at it.

[Outback]

Don't forget the spigot bush in the crankshaft while you are at it.


Forgive my ignorance but what is a Spigot bush? Maybe I have lost something in translation?

[DeeJay]

Forgive my ignorance but what is a Spigot bush? Maybe I have lost something in translation?

Its the brass bush that fits in the flywheel & supports the gearbox shaft,


Land Rover Parts - BUSH - SPIGOT - V8 R/R CLASSIC, R/R P38, DISC 1+2, DEF/COUNTY V8 (http://www.roverparts.com.au/inc/sdetail/13042)

[Chris078]

Chris, DEFINITELY don't put gear oil in the gearbox - it won't last long if you do. The thicker oil destroys the oil pump drive shaft (it's made out of Bakelite type material) and the mainshaft will suffer from oil starvation on the thrusts and rollers. There is a replacement steel oil pump available that I fit when I do a box. If I were you I would be looking for a s/hand military box (maybe from the auctions) and slowly go through it and have it ready to fit by the time yours dies. Otherwise get yours fixed up properly before too much goes wrong inside. The replacement gears are starting to get frightfully expensive these days.


See now that is what I'm talking about. KLR Automotive uses Penrite 75-90 semi syn (https://www.penriteoil.com.au/products.php?id_categ=4&id_products=380) and even Paul uses Castrol VMX 80 (http://www.castrol.com/en_au/australia/products/cars/manual-transmission-fluids/manual-vmx-80w.html). My uncle ran a civilian Lt95 for 550000 km on 75-90 without a problem.

At the moment I'm using Castrol Rx-super 15-40. I do add a tube of Nulon G-70 (http://www.nulon.com.au/products/Specialty_Products/Manual_Gearbox_and_Diff_Treatment) to it. Makes the shifts much smoother, it's very notchy without it.

I wish Grays would do a parts auction here in Brisbane. If they did, I would probably see about picking up a gearbox. As it is, buying in Sydney and shipping up adds several hundred to the cost.

How do gearbox parts hold up to storage? If they are getting pricey, would it be worth ordering some parts now and storing them until the box needs to come out?

[Outback]

How reliable are the transmissions once there in top shape? Are they stout or strong transmissions?

[Chris078]

How reliable are the transmissions once there in top shape? Are they stout or strong transmissions?


Supposedly with a degree of care, an LT95A will go forever, and has a reputation for keeping on going even after it develops faults.

From what I have read around here, the problems with them come from a couple of sources

1. The engine. The 4bd1 is a rough and ready motor that has it's full torque available from a relatively low rpm, which makes it easy to damage the box if you miss a shift or have it in the wrong gear and 'lug' the box

2. They were driven and used hard, and lets face it, the drivers were not concerned with or worried about breaking it, so they 'drove it like they stole it'.

3. The transfer case is a known Land Rover weak spot. forget to engage the diff lock when you leave the tarmac will quickly result in a burned out transfer case

4. This problem is quickly coming to light
a) as Bearman stated in the OP of this thread, incorrect rebuilding of the gearbox in various ways (wrong torque, sub standard parts, not using loctite)

b) incorrect installation of the gearbox > again as per Bearmans OP, incorrect installation resulting in damage to the gearbox and premature wear/failure.