alternator

[boardrider]

i am going to buy a new one.
from the forum someone advised trying Karcraft,they have a Bearmach aftermarket for $516.Are these any good. cheers
boardrider

[LandyAndy]

Unsure on the D3 version.I once got the equal D2 item from them,it turned out to be a re-manufactured unit.No issues,it was worth the saving over a new one.
Andrew

[crawal]

Boardrider, my local auto elec just got me a Denso one for $550.0
It was meant to be magnus Marelli brand .
No complaint from me :D

[boardrider]

thanks for the replies,i got a denso one from all4xfour,all good now
cheers
boardrider:D

[nivekau]

I bought mine from Karcraft about 3 years ago, but it was exactly the same as the original, not aftermarket. Cost around $560

Wrote a thread about it at the time
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/180374-alternator-removal.html

Ah, sorry. Just noticed you last post saying you already bought one!

[~Rich~]

Well word of warning!
I was heading away this morning for a W/E 4wding and the dreaded red charge light came on. Checked voltage and yup Alternator is toast, could smell it too!
So that's 2 alternators each lasting 110,000 k!
If you are doing any sort of outback travel and your alternator is approx that age either get it replaced before your trip or carry a spare. Luckily I had a secondhand one at home, auto electrician fitting it now!
Luckily he was open before 7am!

[nivekau]

So that's 2 alternators each lasting 110,000 k!


Hate to say this, but mine went at 70,000 km.

BTW, I just checked and a Denso alternator cost me $621 +Postage from Karcraft (not $560 as I said earlier), in 2013.

That's a pretty expensive spare part to have carry for bush trips. However, my fuel pump needed replacing before that ...

[Ozzy119]

Well word of warning!
I was heading away this morning for a W/E 4wding and the dreaded red charge light came on. Checked voltage and yup Alternator is toast, could smell it too!
So that's 2 alternators each lasting 110,000 k!
If you are doing any sort of outback travel and your alternator is approx that age either get it replaced before your trip or carry a spare. Luckily I had a secondhand one at home, auto electrician fitting it now!
Luckily he was open before 7am!

Hmmm, about to go remote trip with 95K on the car. How much of a frequency is this alternator failure. Any reasons ? i have dual battery and 6 more in the camper so it will be charging a lot of the time. Is load a factor in how long it has before failure.

[IvanR]

If it helps with peace of mind, my alternator went at 212,000 kms. My experience suggests that you will easily get one days travel and maybe two out of the battery. But with six well that should get you back to somewhere.
My alt went last year on our trip about 100 kms from Karratha, going inthe opposite direction, turned back and found some LR friendly mechanics, order new alt (from Perth) at 2.30 pm. Was on the road by 12.30 next day. Was better service than I could have got at home.
Ivan

[nivekau]

Hmmm, about to go remote trip with 95K on the car. How much of a frequency is this alternator failure. Any reasons ? i have dual battery and 6 more in the camper so it will be charging a lot of the time. Is load a factor in how long it has before failure.

Judging by comments on Landrover forums, it is a reasonably common point of failure. Reasons? Nothing obvious. My car was almost "as new" condition with 70,000km on the clock. But then my fuel pump and compressor have also failed, so maybe mine's a bit of a lemon.

You could take the view that it's bound to fail sooner or later and just take one with you.

[Ozzy119]

Peace of mind always niggles in the back of my mind, frustratingly. But its an expensive spare part.

Any electric experts able to comment on my setup, for an alternator failure. I'll have 200w solar panel and 300amp hours of aux power + the cranking battery. Under extreme conditions i could bypass the traxide to make them all equalise.

How much power does the car consume under driving conditions, without the alternator supplying extra charge ? I could also rig up the solar on top of the camper to charge while on the move.

That might be a dump Q. I guess what i'm thinking is with the solar charge and the amount of battery capacity i'll have, could i avoid carrying a spare one and still crawl back from a remote (e.g. 3 days to bitumen)

cheers

[rar110]

My 08 RRV has a similar alternator I think. I got about 245,000km out of it (according to quite comprehensive history I have).

[nivekau]

How much power does the car consume under driving conditions, without the alternator supplying extra charge ?

It depends on what you have running. Lights, fans, A/c, EAS compressor, radio, and the 13 ECUs! - they all draw current. (You could disable the EAS by removing the fuse).

Obviously the less you have switched on the better.


I guess what i'm thinking is with the solar charge and the amount of battery capacity i'll have, could i avoid carrying a spare one and still crawl back from a remote (e.g. 3 days to bitumen)

Quite likely. There is however one other thing to consider. IF the alternator did fail, you may not be able so simply forget about it and run on batteries.

Mine became noisy and very hot. I've read comments from people on LR forums who's have actually caught fire. And if it seizes what will that do to the belt.

Of course all these are big IFs ...

[~Rich~]

You would be lucky to get 30km once the alternator dies, I got 15km with one restart early on and all the bells where ringing when I was on my way back to the auto electrician.

[rar110]

A dead alternator on these cars seems to suck power from the battery. When my alternator died I fully charged my battery hoping to get home on that. I hooked up a multimeter to one of the cigarette lighters to monitor the battery vantage real time. Soon after I turned over the motor the volts started dropping until after a few minutes it was down to 11 volts and the dash xmas lights started. I just turned it off and got a tray top home.

[IvanR]

In order to continue driving for any distance, you need to disconnect the positive battery lead at the alternator, ASAP to prevent the battery from dying. (disconnect the battery first, but make sure the tail gate is opened)
This will take some time and is very fiddly. I ended up removing the front wheel to gain access from below but I believe it may be possible from the top if you remove enough stuff. Once done you will have no problems travelling some distance (no Air con) In my case I still had 12.1 at the end of the day after quit a no of starts. I think with a Traxide system you should have all your batteries available, but that needs to be confirmed>

Ivan

[Ozzy119]

Thanks for the updates all.

I'm taking the path of most comfort and of course expense, and having a new one installed and keep the current (so far ok one) as a garage spare. Not that i'll likely ever need it as my mind would want to replace the replacement again, instead of putting the spare back in.

so be it, more relaxed, preventative maintenance km's ahead of me.

[~Rich~]

Thanks for the updates all.

I'm taking the path of most comfort and of course expense, and having a new one installed and keep the current (so far ok one) as a garage spare. Not that i'll likely ever need it as my mind would want to replace the replacement again, instead of putting the spare back in.

so be it, more relaxed, preventative maintenance km's ahead of me.

That's exactly what I'm going to do now, get a new one put in and keep that spare as a spare again!

[PAT303]

If it's a denso go to toybota and buy the diodes,they are about $80 and are easy to replace once the alternator is removed. Pat

[~Rich~]

If it's a denso go to toybota and buy the diodes,they are about $80 and are easy to replace once the alternator is removed. Pat

What a Toyota dealer?
Take the diode pack down?

[Russrobe]

If it's a denso go to toybota and buy the diodes,they are about $80 and are easy to replace once the alternator is removed. Pat

Was about to mention that, should be able to buy a set of brushes, a rectifier and a regulator. Weighs next to nothing, takes up barely any room. Even if you can't pull it apart yourself, a auto sparky could. About the only parts they ever replace in a rebuild. The rest is just a strip and clean charge.

Unless they're completely burning out the Stator????

Then it's usually a bin job from memory. Been a while since i stripped one.

[ytt105]

My D3 alternator died in Katherine last year. Luckily I carried a spare set of diodes and was able to replace them in the caravan park and be on my way the next day.

Alternator Rectifier FOR Denso Magneti Marelli Ford Volvo Mazda 237607 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/ALTERNATOR-RECTIFIER-FOR-DENSO-MAGNETI-MARELLI-FORD-VOLVO-MAZDA-237607-/221457809691?hash=item338fea011b&_uhb=1)

PS. Make sure your able to remove the fan, big reverse thread nut, as that is the hardest part of the job.

[Russrobe]

That's the one, get the whole rectifier as per above link. As ytt said, the nut is sometimes undone with a rattle gun as it's so tight...Not sure that's the correct model though?

[90 Rangie]

Hi ytt105,
Is the link to the right one for a D3 ?

[~Rich~]

Yeah I have Denso 104210 3710 which is a 150amp distributor but its not on that list.

[ytt105]

Its from my ebay purchase list and it fitted my 2005 D3.

Do a search in Disco3.co.uk there's a lot of info there about replacing the diode pack.

Try this
DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Alternator replacement guide (please) (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic54774.html'sid=3af8a5875cb96490f1d96909bee585 cc)

Regards

[~Rich~]

Ok well what a drama!
Not over yet but I had the 'spare' alternator replaced with a new one, all good until the serpentine belt came off close to home a week latter.
Went back and the Auto Electrician was most apologetic.
Left the car with him and picked it back up.
Now 2 weeks latter I heard a funny noise and roughness in the engine bay, I got out and noticed something hanging down under the front of the car.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/06/361.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/VSK5/media/D3/IMG_3163%20Custom_zpsworm9tgs.jpg.html)

Hmmm open the bonnet and have a closer look:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/06/362.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/VSK5/media/D3/IMG_3220%20Custom_zpsphosaq3g.jpg.html)

Not good! Take out the engine cover, fan shroud and have a closer look at what may be the problem:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/06/363.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/VSK5/media/D3/IMG_3217%20Custom_zpstptonpqx.jpg.html)

Upon close inspection and comparison to my spare I find the new one looks like it only has 5 ribs on the pulley where the spare has 7!
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/06/364.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/VSK5/media/D3/IMG_3219%20Custom_zpsookzw3qo.jpg.html)

This is NOT ACCEPTABLE!!! Never going to last, let alone on the 5000 k trip I'm going on in 13 days!

But to make things worse I'm worried about the timing case cover as it seems to be damaged as well in 2 spots. :(
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/06/365.jpg (http://s193.photobucket.com/user/VSK5/media/D3/IMG_3226%20Custom_zpsvt9vexid.jpg.html)

How should I deal with this? I'm going away for work until Wed (flying thank goodness)

Oh, I did get the new diode pack for my 'spare' and now it's fitted I have a good spare

Cheers Rich

[LRD414]

Rich, I think the next step depends on your appetite for continuing to deal with someone who I would personally have no faith in anymore, especially with a long remote trip coming up soon.

Is it feasible to get a new correct alternator in time for the trip including fitting by someone else? If not, fitting the reco one is probably only course of action.

I know the person who has made the mistakes should be rectifying at their expense but for me, confidence in the outcome is more important.

Having said that you'd still have to find another guy to put it in and how to find a good guy?

It's a rock and a hard place scenario. Hope you get it sorted in time.

Cheers,
Scott

[Ean Austral]

Cant you just swap the pulley from the old alternator to the new one.?




Cheers Ean

[~Rich~]

Cant you just swap the pulley from the old alternator to the new one.?




Cheers Ean

Yes I could but there is damage to the timing belt cover.
It's also not the point - I paid for a service which was flawed.

[vee8auto]

how is that pulley undone?

its the one with the clutch in it, can anyone advise for certain how its released?

[morpheus]

Sorry to hearvabout your predicament, Rich. Hope it gets sorted for you.

Really interesting thread. I'm looking to do a Simpson crossing next year and with my D3 now at 250k ks I am a bit suspicious of the life of the alternator to the point of considering taking a spare. After reading this thread I think I'll factor a change before I go and take the old one as a spare.

Cheers

[~Rich~]

Sorry to hearvabout your predicament, Rich. Hope it gets sorted for you.



Really interesting thread. I'm looking to do a Simpson crossing next year and with my D3 now at 250k ks I am a bit suspicious of the life of the alternator to the point of considering taking a spare. After reading this thread I think I'll factor a change before I go and take the old one as a spare.



Cheers



I'd definitely be changing it, if you have just changed it to the correct genuine one I would worry about taking the old one as a spare.

[matti4556]

Rich that 5 rib pulley is definitely the wrong one (as you already know) - it also doesn't have the internal clutch in it either - this should have been flagged-up on a part number search? - Good Luck.

[~Rich~]

Well, he was so sorry and apologetic! He rang the part supplier and gave them hell. Although they should of picked up the difference themselves. Anyway it's all going to be fixed on Friday. The timing belt cover is approx $250! Plus the second serpentine belt and correct alternator.

[~Rich~]

Ok who would believe, my D3 is going to have its 4th alternator fitted since Anzac long weekend on Friday. The day before I head off to Birdsville & Channel Country! Why - because the brand new genuine Alternator fitted last Friday is faulty, the regulator has issues.

[Graeme]

Black cats, ladders? What did you do to cause this?

[~Rich~]

Well yeah Graeme I think I must of!

Story goes:
Anzac Long Weekend - my second alternator dies after 111k
Luckily I had a spare to get fitted Sat morn so I still got away.
That was Lucky!

Back I decide to replace the second hand spare with a new one.

Strike 2 - Auto Electrician fits the wrong alternator because it only had a 5 rib pulley.

Strike 3 - After breaking 2 serpentine belts I work out that it's the wrong alternator, the Auto Electrician didn't pick it up either when first fitting the belt or the second time it went in.

Strike 4 - New Genuine L/R alternator fitted last Friday, on Monday leaving work I noticed on startup :
Dashboard displays pulsating, Radio cutting in & out and the Handbrake light flashing orange!

Thinking it may be a battery damaged by the alternator failure I had both my batteries checked as well as the charging - all ok.
Hmmm after doing some searches it could either be alternator, bad earth or faulty brake light switch.
So I always have a spare brake light switch so I fitted it Monday night.

Tuesday morn, no problem I drive 35 min to work.
Tues arvo - same issues again!
I rang a different Auto Elect who does my Indie's work, he agrees with my partial diagnosis. Says we need to record what the voltage is when it happens.
So I rig up a multimeter sitting just behind the bonnet so I can monitor the voltage as I drive.

Wed morn, I notice the voltage for most of the trip being around 15.5 volts with a couple of spikes going up to 17.5 & 18v!!!
Wed arvo - well bugger me it happened again!
This time I videoed the readings, watch for the large variation / pulsation which occurs.

https://youtu.be/8c7TH1KtNOg

Well I spoke to both Auto Electricians - Faulty Alternator!!!!
Another Genuine one being fitted Friday.
As I mentioned I leave Saturday.
I'm now taking my spare one as well!

[Graeme]

I suspect you're hoping the next one's OK!

[drivesafe]

Hi Rich, it is unusual for the voltages to swing some much in as short a time that those reading were changing.

The D3 alternators are big enough to cause those sorts of readings, particularly if the reg is stuffed.

BUT, and this may sound like a stupid question, have you check the battery in the DMM, because this can cause similar type readings. Also loose connections can also produce the same effects.

Another test would be to measure the voltage on another vehicle and see if it is constant or jumping around like you had.

It is most likely your alternator, but it may save you some messing around if you test your DMM.

Just a suggestion but I have been through this very scenario quite few time lately with customers and low batteries have caused the erratic readings.

[~Rich~]

Hi Rich, it is unusual for the voltages to swing some much in as short a time that those reading were changing.

The D3 alternators are big enough to cause those sorts of readings, particularly if the reg is stuffed.

BUT, and this may sound like a stupid question, have you check the battery in the DMM, because this can cause similar type readings. Also loose connections can also produce the same effects.

Another test would be to measure the voltage on another vehicle and see if it is constant or jumping around like you had.

It is most likely your alternator, but it may save you some messing around if you test your DMM.

Just a suggestion but I have been through this very scenario quite few time lately with customers and low batteries have caused the erratic readings.

It was a brand new duracell battery in the DMM and I hardwired the leads to the battery too. On the way home after that video it settled back to a steady 14.1v. Interesting to watch to say the least.
Yes I definitely think the replacement alternator will fix it. (Finger crossed though)

[vee8auto]

Another consideration is that the Engine Management ECU is a player in this game and it seems to vary the voltage outpoint setpoint for the alternator depending on a few operating variables. If you look at the charging wiring circuit you will see 2 wires coming from the Engine Management ECU. Land Rover provides an explanation on what the variables are and what voltage levels to expect.

DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - Alternator overcharging? (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic91591.html)

So, apparently, brief rises to around 16 volt with a cold battery may not be reason to panic. I suggest that people research the Land Rover data before condemning alternators.

[~Rich~]

It's the quick fluctuations that's causing impact as in the video, not so much the actual voltage.

[drivesafe]

It's the quick fluctuations that's causing impact

Hi again Rich, and its those rapid LARGE voltage changes that lead me to thinking the problem is not your alternator but something to do with the DMM and/or its connections.

I'm not ruling out the alternator as the problem, but when you have a massive capacitor, like your battery, connected to the system, I would have expected a MUCH slower change between those LARGE voltage reading differences.

Do you by any chance have access to another DMM, and if so, try put them side by side and see what you get?

[Graeme]

Strike 4 - New Genuine L/R alternator fitted last Friday, on Monday leaving work I noticed on startup :
Dashboard displays pulsating, Radio cutting in & out and the Handbrake light flashing orange!....
Well I spoke to both Auto Electricians - Faulty Alternator!!!!I think the possibility of a faulty DMM is nil. A faulty battery connection or earth is a possibility though.

[~Rich~]

Yep, checked all them.
Got it back at 3.30pm another new alternator fitted.
Packed & ready to hit the road tomorrow. Yeehaa ;)

[drivesafe]

I think the possibility of a faulty DMM is nil. A faulty battery connection or earth is a possibility though.

This is what I am thinking, particularly with the known mounting problem the D3s have with their motor to body earth cable, where the cable mounts to the body behind the plastic wheel guard.

But we wait to see, hopefully, that the problem is finally resolved with the replacing of the alternator.

[~Rich~]

Tiboburra now, all good.