All the time or not?

[Nicky]

Do we use the EPB all the time or not? I notice when parking and shutting down, the selector moves to P, then with the foot on the brake pedal, pulling on the EBP and releasing the foot pressure, the car still shifts ever so slightly before the EPB settles.

[Ozzy119]

Yes, all the time. Its a hand brake just with a finger pull instead. I park on a slight slope and sometimes the car 'settles' back slightly and sometime it holds dead firm. I haven't really worked out why / why not.

[Russrobe]

Pretty sure it will come on whether you choose it or not on the d4. I found that out this morning when i was trying to check uni joints. Left it in neutral with park brake off turn it back on and its got the brake on!

[Grentarc]

Pretty sure it will come on whether you choose it or not on the d4. I found that out this morning when i was trying to check uni joints. Left it in neutral with park brake off turn it back on and its got the brake on!

It turns on automatically if you turn the engine off in Neutral, and I think it may also be a CCF option to have it come on automatically every time you turn the engine off.

[IndusD4]

Sounds like applying the handbrake automatically is a feature on the later models, my 2011 model doesn't do that.

It might be a UK feature, as I believe driving instructors teach you to pull the handbrake on when stopping at a traffic light and put the car in neutral. Which is probably why the lights go from red to amber before going green giving you a few seconds to get ready for take off.

Ron

[LandyAndy]

Just be aware,incase its not a feature on the ealier models.Yes mine automaticaly engages wether I deploy or not.You can test it by not deploying,on restart try driving off with the drivers door open,mine doesnt want to move as the EPB is engaged.
That P warning on the dash has a secondary use,it stays on after shutdown until the electronic systems have shut down.Tim warns of this in his DBS fitting instructions.Do not mess with the battery until the P light is out.
Andrew

[Grentarc]

Mine is set to not come on automatically, but this is by choice. I did note the other day though, about the parking in neutral and it automatically engaging. I wasn't sure if I was far enough in the garage, so turned off in neutral so I could push it the last few cm if needed, but the EPB came on by itself to my surprise.

[Nicky]

It turns on automatically if you turn the engine off in Neutral, and I think it may also be a CCF option to have it come on automatically every time you turn the engine off.

Does not come on in my MY2015

[LandyAndy]

Have you tried putting it in neutral shuting down without the EPB then re-starting and then trying to drive with the drivers door open????
I have to shift mine in the morning,will see if I get auto EPB in neutral.
Andrew

[Meken]

Big heavy car = bad if roll away by itself [emoji31]

[Graeme]

Have you tried putting it in neutral shuting down without the EPB then re-starting and then trying to drive with the drivers door open????That's an automatic precaution because the gearbox wasn't put into park.

Have you put it in park before switching off then releasing from park without the ignition on then tried to push it? (or park it on a slope)

[Nicky]

That's an automatic precaution because the gearbox wasn't put into park.

Have you put it in park before switching off then releasing from park without the ignition on then tried to push it? (or park it on a slope)

OK my real question is wether we should use the EPB routinely or only on steeper slopes?

[Graeme]

I only use mine on steeper slopes, perhaps less than I should but forever wary of the mechanism jamming from dust in the drums. I'm not prepared to regularly clean and adjust the shoes in my often dusty environment.

[Disco-tastic]

I do for any slope. In fact its just become habit now to do it all the time.

I have just had to pay to have the EPB module unjammed and the brake shoes cleaned and adjusted tho. Brake shoe adjustment is now part of my regular service!

Cheers

Dan

[Nicky]

I only use mine on steeper slopes, perhaps less than I should but forever wary of the mechanism jamming from dust in the drums. I'm not prepared to regularly clean and adjust the shoes in my often dusty environment.

My thinking also. Thanks.

[Meken]

Check traffic rules - I think in QLD its a fine if park brake noy on

[~Rich~]

I only use mine on steeper slopes, perhaps less than I should but forever wary of the mechanism jamming from dust in the drums. I'm not prepared to regularly clean and adjust the shoes in my often dusty environment.



X 3

[BMKal]

Very rarely ever use park brake on mine. ;)

But there aren't any hills in Kalgoorlie. :p

[Disco-tastic]

I only use mine on steeper slopes, perhaps less than I should but forever wary of the mechanism jamming from dust in the drums. I'm not prepared to regularly clean and adjust the shoes in my often dusty environment.

I have heard its not great for the transmission to hold the car on a slope? Having no EPB for a couple of weeks i hated hearing the driveline clunk when i took it out of park on a slope.

Cheers

Dan

[Nicky]

I have heard its not great for the transmission to hold the car on a slope? Having no EPB for a couple of weeks i hated hearing the driveline clunk when i took it out of park on a slope.

Cheers

Dan

Of course on a slope it makes sense to use it. Now why did your EPB fail?

[Disco-tastic]

Of course on a slope it makes sense to use it. Now why did your EPB fail?

From what i can tell mis-adjusted shoes, compounded by a few 4wd trips with some water holes.

ive only had the car for 6 months, and wasnt really aware of the EPB mishaps until the module jammed.

I suppose what im trying to say is if you keep your brake shoes adjusted you should be fine to use it whenever you like. The extra 30mins to adjust during a service seems like a good idea to me.

Cheers

Dan

[Tombie]

OK my real question is wether we should use the EPB routinely or only on steeper slopes?



It's a Handbrake.

You should use it..

Leaving a vehicle to hold against a small pin in the Auto isn't a great idea in any vehicle..

[Celtoid]

Sounds like applying the handbrake automatically is a feature on the later models, my 2011 model doesn't do that.

It might be a UK feature, as I believe driving instructors teach you to pull the handbrake on when stopping at a traffic light and put the car in neutral. Which is probably why the lights go from red to amber before going green giving you a few seconds to get ready for take off.

Ron


Just as a side, I so wish Australia went down that road rather than the US model. It would make traffic flow so much easier.

[Nicky]

It's a Handbrake.

You should use it..

Leaving a vehicle to hold against a small pin in the Auto isn't a great idea in any vehicle..

The vehicle settles after shutdown and must be moving against the pin before the EPB comes on. So on a flat surface there is no benefit applying it.

[Tombie]

The vehicle settles after shutdown and must be moving against the pin before the EPB comes on. So on a flat surface there is no benefit applying it.



If you saw the size of the pin I doubt you'd trust it to hold your vehicle..

And the vehicle settles on the drum brakes not the box..

[Tombie]

Oh yes. That and it's law!!

[Nicky]

If you saw the size of the pin I doubt you'd trust it to hold your vehicle..

And the vehicle settles on the drum brakes not the box..

OK so who can post a description of how the auto transmission works in park, surely the "pin" is employed before the EBP is engaged.
To avoid this do we select "N" apply the EPB, shut down and allow the car to select "P"

[Disco-tastic]

I change to N, apply EPB, release foot brake to let the brake take up the load, then in park, then shutdown. No load on transmission.

Cheers

Dan

[Tombie]

OK so who can post a description of how the auto transmission works in park, surely the "pin" is employed before the EBP is engaged.
To avoid this do we select "N" apply the EPB, shut down and allow the car to select "P"



Or just apply it while still in D... [emoji41]

[LandyAndy]

Im going to try and do what Disco Tastic does.I really dont like that surge and the pressure it must put on the park brake pin in the gearbox,I have actually tried to do it his way,too used to driving manual vehicles,bad habits!!!!
I had a play with mine.
It seems no auto park brake,well couldnt provoke it in a couple of quick attempts,it was raining.
However I left it in neutral,no park brake and shut it down.Got a warming trans not in neutral,opened the door and the ecu put the trans in park,I saw the lights on the rotary dial move to indicate so:cool::cool::cool:.Locked it and it was in park when I unlocked it.
As I say no auto park brake,no P on the dash either to indicate the system has gone to sleep.
It was raining,so I didnt persevere to see if it was a time out thing,will try and remember to do it another time.
Andrew

[LandyAndy]

Or just apply it while still in D... [emoji41]

You can do that at highway speed with your hands off the wheel safely Im lead to believe.
Yet to try:eek::eek::eek::eek:
Andrew

[Tombie]

You can do that at highway speed with your hands off the wheel safely Im lead to believe.

Yet to try:eek::eek::eek::eek:

Andrew



I've done it [emoji41]
It's umm... Abrupt!!!


Back to the matter at hand.
I spend a heck of a lot of time driving dirt, bull dust and have done several trips where it got so covered in mud you could only see a shear line where the wheels were and the underbody was covered everywhere.

It's now been 4.5 years, it's only had factory services and not a single issue with the EPB..

You can hear if it's getting tight by listening when you engage it.

[Grentarc]

I the ecu put the trans in park,I saw the lights on the rotary dial move to indicate

Well isn't that a smart car! The 6 speed can't do that, so that would be why there is the automatic EPB application when in neutral.

[DI5CO]

Sounds like applying the handbrake automatically is a feature on the later models, my 2011 model doesn't do that.



It might be a UK feature, as I believe driving instructors teach you to pull the handbrake on when stopping at a traffic light and put the car in neutral. Which is probably why the lights go from red to amber before going green giving you a few seconds to get ready for take off.



Ron



I read (Wikipedia so not sure how accurate https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZF_8HP_transmission ) that the 8 speed automatically selects neutral when the car is stationary to conserve fuel. We had a Vectra (2001 or 2 I think) and this did it too. It was much more noticeable when you took your foot off the brake and it went into drive than the 8 speed does!!

[Tombie]

Vehicle doesn't "shut down" all its systems when left in neutral either.

[rocket rod]

I thought I would check out how the EPB works on my MY16 D4 so today I stopped, put it in N and turned ignition off. P was not selected automatically and the car started to roll away. Next, I turned the ignition off when in D, the car will automatically select P but EPB is not engaged automatically.

[Disco-tastic]

You can hear if it's getting tight by listening when you engage it.

What does it sound like? Ive only heard the grinding of it jamming. It unjammed a couple of times by itself (at the time i didnt know what it was, so didnt stop using it) other than that no noticeable noise. Its a bit noisier now tho...

Cheers

Dan

[LandyAndy]

I thought I would check out how the EPB works on my MY16 D4 so today I stopped, put it in N and turned ignition off. P was not selected automatically and the car started to roll away. Next, I turned the ignition off when in D, the car will automatically select P but EPB is not engaged automatically.

Did you get the warning when you hit the stop button???
Mine said not in park,definately went into park either when I opened the door or when I got out of the seat,definately saw the lights on the knob change to park.
Andrew

[rocket rod]

I didn't open the door so maybe that's why it didn't give me a warning.

[letherm]

You can do that at highway speed with your hands off the wheel safely Im lead to believe.
Yet to try:eek::eek::eek::eek:
Andrew

It actually is a safety feature. The passenger can apply the epb and the car will slow down and stop and leave the epb on. I was told about this at a dealer supplied training day with a LR trainer. Apparently (haven't confirmed this) it puts the emergency lights on too. I think he said it uses the terrain response system to brake - like HDC I suppose rather than it applying the parking brakes. The trainer said he told everyone about it and advised them to try it. He had an older couple that he had trained and told them about this. They were on the freeway doing 110kph and the husband had some sort of attack and she pulled the epb on and stopped the car safely. It IS abrupt as mentioned and stops you very fast. You have to hold it on continuously until the car stops and it makes the usual LR bonging sounds while you're doing it. I have had my wife and son apply it so they know what to expect if the need arises. Recommend trying it to all who have it.

Martin

[Plane Fixer]

I had my wife try it at 100kmh on a nice big and wide dirt road. We came to a quick stop in a straight line with no wheel lockup. I also kept my foot on the accelerator and the EPB cut power too. A very well thought out safety feature.
Handbrake turns are definitely not allowed!!!!:wasntme:

[TerryO]

Oh yes. That and it's law!!


So?

I find it some what amusing when people selectively quote the law as a reason for justifying their argument. Why? Because I am yet to met the perfect individual that has never broken the law when it comes to the use of a motor vehicle, most of us and I bet you to Tombie break it on a very regular basis.

As for the little pin in the gearbox that holds the car stationary when in park when was the last time anyone heard of one breaking and the vehicle rolling away? Versus how often have you heard of a incorrectly adjusted hand brake that allowed a vehicle to roll away sometime after the owner walked off? This only happens because they didn't have the vehicle in gear or park as well.

Using a handbrake is a good thing on hills but I always also put any vehicle I drive in gear or park as well because personally I trust the gearbox more than hand brakes.

[Graeme]

Terry you've reminded me of our 1st (manual) D2, on which the handbrake shoes released their grip on many occasions after having been fully applied, one time allowing the vehicle to side-swipe a sturdy steel post at the bottom of a slope whilst my wife was closing a gate. Being a manual with diesel engine I was not inclined to switch the engine off at the end of a 100 kph drive to leave it in gear so relied on the hand-brake. The handbrake shoe spring design was flawed but rectified by the time we bought our 2nd manual TD5 D2.

[Nicky]

So?


?...As for the little pin in the gearbox that holds the car stationary when in park when was the last time anyone heard of one breaking and the vehicle rolling away? Versus how often have you heard of a incorrectly adjusted hand brake that allowed a vehicle to roll away sometime after the owner walked off? This only happens because they didn't have the vehicle in gear or park as well.

Using a handbrake is a good thing on hills but I always also put any vehicle I drive in gear or park as well because personally I trust the gearbox more than hand brakes.

So who wants to post info about this mythical pin, fragile/not fragile? After all it was about this that the whole question came up.

[Tombie]

Me and infractions? Not likely. [emoji48] [emoji56]however I always quote legal requirements in any thread - because comments which recommend doing things which are not legal can result in action against the individual... And I'm not willing to go there..

So - "the pin"... Over the years I have had 2 pins break, seen multiple others.
I have also repaired a few where the pin ends up damaged and won't disengage / engage.

I also advocate using P in an auto or 1st/Rev in a manual when parking also.

I certainly wouldn't leave a vehicle parked in gear without the handbrake - I've seen the results!

I've also seen auto vehicles unable to move off due to the pin jamming due to the load on the vehicle and the driver was unable to move out of P into a gear. The solution was to attach a strap and gently pull the vehicle back a little to release the tension.

[Nicky]

OK but please, pin diagrams, pictures, manual pics, photos, anything..

[Grentarc]

OK but please, pin diagrams, pictures, manual pics, photos, anything..

I actually have these for the 6HP26 on my computer at home if you like

[Nicky]

I actually have these for the 6HP26 on my computer at home if you like
Can you post or PM me please

[Grentarc]

Has the method used in the 6HP26 in both mechanical selector and electronic selector - like the ZF 8HP is, so possibly same mechanism, although that is only pure speculation.
http://www.waggafish.com/Downloads/Land-Rover/Parklock.pdf

[Nicky]

Has the method used in the 6HP26 in both mechanical selector and electronic selector - like the ZF 8HP is, so possibly same mechanism, although that is only pure speculation.
http://www.waggafish.com/Downloads/Land-Rover/Parklock.pdf
Thanks, the mechanism does not look too fragile.

[Tombie]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parking_pawl

[Tombie]

Thanks, the mechanism does not look too fragile.



Perhaps you should take a look at one in the flesh... [emoji41]

And take a look at how it impacts the rest of the internals..

[Tombie]

Having said all that - it's your vehicle and ultimately your choice what you choose to do [emoji41]

[LandyAndy]

Dont you just love those who select park before the vehicle stops moving????
clunk clunk clunk.
Andrew

[Narangga]

Dont you just love those who select park before the vehicle stops moving????
clunk clunk clunk.
Andrew

D3 Owners Handbook says stop vehicle, apply EPB, then place in Park :o

[Tombie]

I've seen that in a service station... Didn't end well...

Here's some pics of a few...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/04/49.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/04/50.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/04/51.jpg

[Tombie]

And some good reading from a transmission shop...

http://myautomatictransmission.com/transmission-parking-pawl.htm#Shifter_lever_stuck_in_P_Park

[Disco-tastic]

And some good reading from a transmission shop...

http://myautomatictransmission.com/transmission-parking-pawl.htm#Shifter_lever_stuck_in_P_Park

A quote from that article Tombie

DID YOU KNOW? Contrary to common thinking, the primary purpose of the transmission's "Park" position (and parking pawl) is to keep the engine's power from reaching the drive wheels when the engine is running, not to stop the vehicle from rolling when parked - this is the job of the e-brake.

Why not just use neutral?

Cheers

Dan

[Grentarc]

A quote from that article Tombie


Why not just use neutral?

Cheers

Dan
Yet from the ZF document "Functional description 6HP26" Page 22 "The parking lock is a device that prevents the vehicle from rolling away out of control."

EDIT: - Not stating either way is correct, just find the opposing views interesting.

[Celtoid]

So not sure if I've missed something here folks but ...


MY13 D4 SE (the one I own) you cannot stop the car going into Park once you turn the engine off. I just tested this .... Reverse selected, Drive selected......slight delay.... then the transmission selector indicates that it has now selected Park. Dash display indicates the same.

[Grentarc]

So not sure if I've missed something here folks but ...


MY13 D4 SE (the one I own) you cannot stop the car going into Park once you turn the engine off. I just tested this .... Reverse selected, Drive selected......slight delay.... then the transmission selector indicates that it has now selected Park. Dash display indicates the same.

The 8-speed box will auto park as it is a select by wire system, so it can do that if it wishes. The 6-speed being a cable select cannot self park. The PDF I uploaded is an excerpt from a ZF produced document, and explains how both cable and select-by-wire systems' "park" functions work... LR have obviously changed the EPB programming so that it no longer automatically engages because they can just put the gearbox in park instead (when shutting down with gearbox in neutral)

[Celtoid]

The 8-speed box will auto park as it is a select by wire system, so it can do that if it wishes. The 6-speed being a cable select cannot self park. The PDF I uploaded is an excerpt from a ZF produced document, and explains how both cable and select-by-wire systems' "park" functions work... LR have obviously changed the EPB programming so that it no longer automatically engages because they can just put the gearbox in park instead




Thanks Justin,


I just read further through the threads and realised that 'rocket rod' had tested a little further and I can concur.


Neutral leaves the car rolling ... that I can understand .... haven't tried the Door Opened thing yet ..... Turning off in D selects P but definitely does not apply the EPB. That I cannot explain.

[Grentarc]

I do have a theory as to why the 8-speed do not use the EPB automatically - the design of the Park in the select-by-wire boxes is a cylinder through a disc - this design would be able to endure much more stress than the traditional "pawl" of the cable operated park. I read somewhere that BMW(I think??) don't have a park brake as such anymore, and just use the park function of the auto transmission, as it can be in gear and still activate the park cylinder due to it just being another solenoid to activate.

[Tombie]

That makes sense...

As for even attempting to use just neutral and the EPB (more in the 6 speed), in neutral the vehicle doesn't shut down - it keeps systems alive...

[Disco-tastic]

I was more asking from a vehicle-secured-against-rolling-away view point but yes, that is a good reason to put it in park :p

Cheers

Dan

[apom]

I thought I would check out how the EPB works on my MY16 D4 so today I stopped, put it in N and turned ignition off. P was not selected automatically and the car started to roll away. Next, I turned the ignition off when in D, the car will automatically select P but EPB is not engaged automatically.

...x2


When I was checking out a disco purchase i spoke with the Guy at house of Rover in Brisbane and he said that cars that don't release the EPB manually and use the auto release function exhibit a lot more wear than those that choose to release it manually. Its not the first time I have heard of this, our Pug 508 had the same feature and the dealer also warned us about using the auto-release feature. Sadly he told us that after we had to replace he pads AND ROTORS at 30,000km :(

[LandyAndy]

On a trip to the city on the the weekend I used the Disco Tastic protocol.
Its MUCH smoother on the trans if you select acsess height whilst parking and the park brake whilst in neutral then put it in park.
A habit I will be trying to teach myself.I already have been selecting acsess height wilst seeking a park spot.
Andrew