Series 2A ID Request

[Gustav]

Hi all,
I'm new to the forum and, as of this week, the proud owner of what I'm told is a late 1967 2A LWB truck cab with an alloy tray. I've been browsing through the topics on the forum and have seen a bit of discussion on chassis & engine numbers etc so was hoping someone may be able to assist with some background on this one.
I bought the vehicle in QLD but it has Pressed Metal Corp Sydney plate with:
Body No: LRL14963
Serial No: 10914963
Chassis No: 34700217A (on interior plate & on the left rear spring hanger)
Engine No: 34700205A (2.6L 6 cylinder)


Any info or assistance would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

[JDNSW]

The number first group is 347, meaning 2.6L RHD, CKD, not a station wagon (all sixes were 109s). But the first suffix number was 'D' not 'A', so the A would appear to be incorrect. The relatively low serial number (217) suggests fairly early, best guess 1966-7.

John

[Gustav]

The number first group is 347, meaning 2.6L RHD, CKD, not a station wagon (all sixes were 109s). But the first suffix number was 'D' not 'A', so the A would appear to be incorrect. The relatively low serial number (217) suggests fairly early, best guess 1966-7.

John


Thanks for that John.
Wondering what you mean when you say the A would be incorrect?


I'll try & post some pics.

[Gustav]

Some photos

[JDNSW]

Thanks for that John.
Wondering what you mean when you say the A would be incorrect?


I'll try & post some pics.

It certainly looks nice! What I meant is that the Series 2a was introduced in 1961, and the chassis numbers had "A" added to the number. This letter increased with major changes to the vehicle, so that, for example, the change from "C" to "D" in 1967 is significant in that there were major changes to the electrical system. The six was introduced in 1966, but already incorporated the changes that came a few months later, so all sixes should have a letter suffix of "D" or higher. So no six ever had a suffix letter of "A".

What is not impossible is that PMC incorrectly stamped the letter, in which case the "A" is certainly the legal identity of the vehicle, but using it to find parts etc will only cause confusion!

John

[Lionelgee]

Hello Gustav,

It is a very nice vehicle. Thanks for posting up the photographs.

It is only speculation on my part; however, from the look of your tray it may have been replaced later in the vehicle's life. I have a 1976 Series III tray back and it has the twin of your tray on its back. I have also seen other photographs of Series IIIs from around 1976 with the same tray.

Yours may have originally come with a tray with a hardwood floor and steel sides. I suppose the combined forces of rust and rot could have had their evil way. :twisted:

Your photograph showing the wheel rims also answered a question for me. I have one wheel rim that is a different colour from all my other ones. It looks like it might have been off a 2A because the colour of my rim is the same as in the photograph - thanks for that!

Kind Regards
Lionel

[Dark61]

nice looking thing. Well done.


how does it drive? The colour reminds me of what is often found on the engine block. Duck Egg Blue or Admiralty Grey I think.
cheers,
D

[Gustav]

Hello Gustav,

It is a very nice vehicle. Thanks for posting up the photographs.

It is only speculation on my part; however, from the look of your tray it may have been replaced later in the vehicle's life. I have a 1976 Series III tray back and it has the twin of your tray on its back. I have also seen other photographs of Series IIIs from around 1976 with the same tray.

Yours may have originally come with a tray with a hardwood floor and steel sides. I suppose the combined forces of rust and rot could have had their evil way. :twisted:

Your photograph showing the wheel rims also answered a question for me. I have one wheel rim that is a different colour from all my other ones. It looks like it might have been off a 2A because the colour of my rim is the same as in the photograph - thanks for that!

Kind Regards
Lionel


Thanks Lionel,
Yep I assumed the tray to not be original but thought it would be just a random alloy tray - so interesting to hear you've got the same tray on your SIII & have seen others.


Re the wheel rims, all 4 are stamped 5.50F x 16 x 33; FV2000727 (I read somewhere that FV stood for fighting vehicle?) & NRC7578 (made in UK??). The spare wheel is different - I can only see the word AUSTRALIA stamped, I'll need to check it more closely.

[Gustav]

nice looking thing. Well done.


how does it drive? The colour reminds me of what is often found on the engine block. Duck Egg Blue or Admiralty Grey I think.
cheers,
D

I reckon it drives pretty well - I picked it up & drove it for 3.5 hrs with a couple of stops. Didn't miss a beat once it warmed up & the temp gauge never moved once it got to operating temp. Maintained a steady 80-90kph, fourth gear was able to pull up most hills.


Put it over the pits yesterday for rego - all ok except for needing one tie rod replaced so pretty happy with that.


Re the colour, I haven't been able to find any original colour bits yet. The bloke I bought it off wasn't too sure of much about it, I think the guy who did the resto work was called Dave from Mackay?

[JDNSW]

NRC7578 are not the original wheels - although they are quite suitable, and have a slightly greater offset, allowing a slightly better turning circle. These wheels were fitted to Series 3 not assembled in Australia (Australia had different locally made wheels) and to Australian assembled 110s , and, I think, to most Defenders with steel wheels assembled anywhere, so are reasonably common.

John

[Gustav]

NRC7578 are not the original wheels - although they are quite suitable, and have a slightly greater offset, allowing a slightly better turning circle. These wheels were fitted to Series 3 not assembled in Australia (Australia had different locally made wheels) and to Australian assembled 110s , and, I think, to most Defenders with steel wheels assembled anywhere, so are reasonably common.

John

Thanks heaps John, I really appreciate you sharing your knowledge. I'm glad I've got those wheels then - not sure I'd like to see the turning circle any wider! I do find that on a hard lock (both sides but seems worse hard right than left) the steering seems to be fighting against something. It's hard to describe but the steering wheel wrestles and feels like your going over big river rocks. Will have to have a better look at the steering set up to see what's going on when on a hard lock.

[Rowan1986]

Hey guys sorry to intrude on your conversation. But I was also wondering if it is possible to find out build info about my series 2a. Like original colour, hard top or soft, if it possibly could be ex-army. Can any one help on this cheers rowan

[Aaron IIA]

I do find that on a hard lock (both sides but seems worse hard right than left) the steering seems to be fighting against something. It's hard to describe but the steering wheel wrestles and feels like your going over big river rocks.

Is the drive engaged to the front axle?

Aaron

[pop058]

Hey guys sorry to intrude on your conversation. But I was also wondering if it is possible to find out build info about my series 2a. Like original colour, hard top or soft, if it possibly could be ex-army. Can any one help on this cheers rowan

It might be worth starting a thread of your own and posting up some pics and engine/chassis number info. Someone here is bound to be able to help you.

And Welcome.

[Rowan1986]

Thank for the reply Paul. Good idea. Might do that tomorrow. Cheers.

[Gustav]

Is the drive engaged to the front axle?

Aaron

Doh! You're a genius Aaron!
Yep it seems the mechanic doing the blue slip yesterday left the front wheels engaged. Back to normal now, thanks.

[JDNSW]

Now you know how to tell!

John

[JDNSW]

Original colour. You can usually find a bit that has not been repainted. One typical one is under the blanking plate covering the hole for the handbrake on the LHD version, but if you have a look round you will probably find other places where you can expect to see original paint.

John

[alanw]

Hello Gustav,
Just a note to add re the vehicle ID numbers.


I have a 1967 2A six - with no. 34700040A. My understanding is that it is one of the first sixes assembled in Australia.
My grandfather bought it when it was a year old in 1968 and it is completely original other than for the replacement of the inevitable broken axles and diffs.
So an A suffix would seem to be normal for early sixes.

[JDNSW]

Hello Gustav,
Just a note to add re the vehicle ID numbers.


I have a 1967 2A six - with no. 34700040A. My understanding is that it is one of the first sixes assembled in Australia.
My grandfather bought it when it was a year old in 1968 and it is completely original other than for the replacement of the inevitable broken axles and diffs.
So an A suffix would seem to be normal for early sixes.

Sounds like they started to give the sixes a new series of suffixes, and did not get this into the workshop manual I got the 'D' from - or possibly the 'A' was only used on Australian assembled ones. Would not be the first time this sort of confusion happened with Rover numbers.

John

[Gustav]

Hello Gustav,
Just a note to add re the vehicle ID numbers.


I have a 1967 2A six - with no. 34700040A. My understanding is that it is one of the first sixes assembled in Australia.
My grandfather bought it when it was a year old in 1968 and it is completely original other than for the replacement of the inevitable broken axles and diffs.
So an A suffix would seem to be normal for early sixes.


Thanks Alan, that helps piece things together. Fantastic that you have your Grandfather's car & that it's virtually original - it'd be a great reference point for me - have you posted any pics?
What is your engine number, I'd be interested to see if it's close to the chassis number as mine is?

[alanw]

Thks Gustav,
The full numbers are
Body no. 14636
Serial no. 10914636
Vehicle no. 34700040A
Engine no. 34700043A
If you need any photos of anything specific just let me know.
It is a utility body - not a tray. Photo attached












Rgds
alan

[Gustav]

Thks Gustav,
The full numbers are
Body no. 14636
Serial no. 10914636
Vehicle no. 34700040A
Engine no. 34700043A
If you need any photos of anything specific just let me know.
It is a utility body - not a tray. Photo attached

Rgds
alan
That is cool Alan!
I imagine it's pretty unusual to have chassis & engine numbers so close to each other, as you say one of the first of the sixes & therefore the 347 numbering - I'm hoping that mine being fairly close too may mean I have the original engine.
What sort of carbie does it have? Mine's an SU. Just trying to figure out what's original.
If not too much trouble a pic of the dash/interior & one of the engine bay would be great - no particular rush.

[JDNSW]

Very nice looking. An interesting comment on it, as from your information it has the original equipment - according to my parts book, the deluxe bonnet (rounded front edge) was standard equipment on the 2a - but most of the Australian assembled 2as I have seen have standard bonnets!

John

[debruiser]

Nice looking truck! Can't say I've seen those colours before, but they are pretty good.... for 70's pastel colours :D

Good to see some original beasties getting about.

[JDNSW]

Is that the original colour? My memory says that all early Australian sixes were an orangy colour and all four cylinder 109s grey, and all 88s green. You could pick the sixes in the distance by the colour. I was working in Roma when they first appeared in early 1967 (I know they came out in 1967, but it was 1967 before I saw any).

John

[debruiser]

I have no idea John. I'm too young to know that stuff.... I still think it's a cool 70's colour anyway :p

[Gustav]

I've been trying to find some original colour on mine but they seemed to have done a pretty thorough job with the pastel green paint! Tried the LHS hand brake cover plate but they did behind that as well. The only places I've found that aren't pastel green seem to be a grey similar to Alan's ute - certainly no orange anywhere that I can see John. There's some army green pieces underneath such as hand brake brackets so they may be replacement bits.




Had some rain here yesterday, a few drips inside but the roof is far from watertight - the inside corners completely filled up with water. Seems the water that sits in the gutter must seep thru between the rivets - might have to try a bead of silicone all round to seal it.

[Gustav]

Nice looking truck! Can't say I've seen those colours before, but they are pretty good.... for 70's pastel colours :D

Good to see some original beasties getting about.

The bloke I bought it from says he got it from a guy called Dave in Mackay who did all the work on it. Any idea who that might be mate?
Regards,
Gus

[pop058]

There was a 72 2A 6 cyl at an all British day a few years ago in that colour

[JDNSW]

Yes, by the 70s, more colours were available.

John

[debruiser]

The bloke I bought it from says he got it from a guy called Dave in Mackay who did all the work on it. Any idea who that might be mate?
Regards,
Gus

Sorry Gus... there are like 70 000 people in Mackay :P I know about 10...

I can't say that I've heard of any daves that play with LR.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Very nice looking. An interesting comment on it, as from your information it has the original equipment - according to my parts book, the deluxe bonnet (rounded front edge) was standard equipment on the 2a - but most of the Australian assembled 2as I have seen have standard bonnets!

JohnYou need to be cognoscente that the LR Parts Catalogues were published in the UK and often related to the standard specification of UK assembled vehicles. AFAIK the standard bonnets were manufactured in Australia where the deluxe bonnet were not, so you find that Australian manufactured SIIa and SIII vehicles got the standard bonnet while the contemporary UK built ones got the Deluxe. Some exceptions were the station wagons, where the body panels still came from the U.K and most had the Deluxe bonnet, if the spare was mounted on the bonnet the 109 wagons had the recessed Deluxe bonnet. Similarly the UK vehicles had the woven wire mesh grill, while the Au civvy ones had the welded wire grill.

The yellow sandstone colour was the standard colour of Au assembled six cylinders, at the same time diesel and 4 cyl petrol 109" had the grey colour (apart from the various government contract vehicles. e.g. PMG (pre Telecom Aust) blood red, DCA, daffodil yellow, NSW Forestry and DMR had orange etc etc.)

[Gustav]

Sorry Gus... there are like 70 000 people in Mackay :P I know about 10...

I can't say that I've heard of any daves that play with LR.



Ha fair enough! Worth a shot.

[JDNSW]

You need to be cognoscente that the LR Parts Catalogues were published in the UK and often related to the standard specification of UK assembled vehicles. AFAIK the standard bonnets were manufactured in Australia where the deluxe bonnet were not, so you find that Australian manufactured SIIa and SIII vehicles got the standard bonnet while the contemporary UK built ones got the Deluxe. Some exceptions were the station wagons, where the body panels still came from the U.K and most had the Deluxe bonnet, if the spare was mounted on the bonnet the 109 wagons had the recessed Deluxe bonnet. Similarly the UK vehicles had the woven wire mesh grill, while the Au civvy ones had the welded wire grill.

The yellow sandstone colour was the standard colour of Au assembled six cylinders, at the same time diesel and 4 cyl petrol 109" had the grey colour (apart from the various government contract vehicles. e.g. PMG (pre Telecom Aust) blood red, DCA, daffodil yellow, NSW Forestry and DMR had orange etc etc.)

Thanks Diana - I had guessed most of that, but very nice to have your confirmation. Reinforces what I said about colour.

Interestingly, the one S3 I have had here (1981 109) had a deluxe bonnet, without the recess and with a spare mount (I'm guessing fitted by the dealer).

Also of interest, my first 2a (1961 109 diesel trayback I bought in 1965 in Alice) was white, but this was certainly a respray over grey, probably by the SA distributor or the AS dealer before its initial sale.

John

John

[debruiser]

Ha fair enough! Worth a shot.

haha, yea no worries ay. Wish I knew more LR ppl here

[alanw]

Gus - as requested a few more photos.
Incidentally, one of the photos shows the 1967 date stamp on the original lucas generator. You may find other components similarly stamped which may help determining what is original.
The photo of the dash shows a non genuine attempt at a windscreen washer.
The paint has been redone but is the original colour.


Rgds
alan

[Gustav]

Gus - as requested a few more photos.
Incidentally, one of the photos shows the 1967 date stamp on the original lucas generator. You may find other components similarly stamped which may help determining what is original.
The photo of the dash shows a non genuine attempt at a windscreen washer.
The paint has been redone but is the original colour.


Rgds
alan
Thanks Alan, very good of you.
Mine is virtually the same set up on the dash which is good.
I'll check for dates on other items as you suggest.
Regards,
Gus

[Lotz-A-Landies]

What a nice looking SIIA. I love it, very nice. Mmmmmmm :BigThumb:

Can I ask you one small favour/task? Can you measure the distance from the back edge of the lip under the instrument panel (the one underneath away from the seats) to the face of the firewall? The space where the six cylinder heater/demister fits.
Thanks Diana - I had guessed most of that, but very nice to have your confirmation. Reinforces what I said about colour.

Interestingly, the one S3 I have had here (1981 109) had a deluxe bonnet, without the recess and with a spare mount (I'm guessing fitted by the dealer).

<snip>It seems that a lot of the later SIII 109s had the deluxe bonnets, even Oz assembled ones but the Army kept the Standard even in 1981.

The 88" with the Deluxe bonnet had no recess, because standard equipment were 6.00 X 16 tyres the 109's should have had the recess because the 7.50 X 16 tyres obstruct too much forward vision. Interestingly the standard bonnet sits the tyres at about the same height as the Deluxe with recess.

[S3ute]

Hello from Brisbane.

One of the earlier posts related to the aluminium tray and suggested that it might have replaced a steel and wood tray at some time. That might be correct in this instance, but at one stage in the late 60s or early 70s Land Rover Australia offered both.

I remember ads in The Land newspaper around that time highlighting the advantage of the optional alloy trays over the more common steel and timber tray. It went along the lines that the alloy tray being 30 to 35% lighter meant the prospective payload was equivalently higher for the same model. Whatever the merits of the argument my late Dad still bought a six with the steel and wooden tray.

Cheers,

Neil

[JDNSW]

My first 2a, a 1961 model I bought in 1965 was fitted with its original steel tray. This tray was all steel except for wooden side and tail boards. It had a sticker on it showing it was built by an Adelaide.

Like most traybacks at this time the tray was supplied locally (if you call Adelaide local to A.S.!).

John

[Gustav]

What a nice looking SIIA. I love it, very nice. Mmmmmmm :BigThumb:

Can I ask you one small favour/task? Can you measure the distance from the back edge of the lip under the instrument panel (the one underneath away from the seats) to the face of the firewall? .


Hi, I'm not sure if you're talking to me or Alan re this?
Gus

[Gustav]

Hi, I'm not sure if you're talking to me or Alan re this?
Gus


In case you meant me, the distance measures 81mm if I've understood you correctly. See pic attached:

[Lotz-A-Landies]

In case you meant me, the distance measures 81mm if I've understood you correctly. See pic attached:Exactly the measurement I needed. :TakeABow:

[Gustav]

Exactly the measurement I needed. :TakeABow:

Nice find. :)

Unfortunately it wasn't distributed in NSW, but it would likely have been assembled in August 1967.

Australian production of 347 prefix vehicles commenced on 20th March 1967.

The closest vehicles to yours that I have records of are:

34700816A delivered to customer 18/9/67
34700847A delivered to customer 7/9/67

I saw this post of yours on a different thread & was wondering if you had any records closer to my chassis number of 34700217A &/or could tell me if it was distributed in NSW?
Thanks,
Gus

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I saw this post of yours on a different thread & was wondering if you had any records closer to my chassis number of 34700217A &/or could tell me if it was distributed in NSW?
Thanks,
GusUnfortunately it doesn't appear in the NSW Allocations books.

The closest vehicles were 34700198A and 34700253A both sent to dealers in May 1967 but I guess you knew the year as the six cylinder normal control were released for the 67 model year.

Diana :)

[schuy1]

Interesting about colour . My '70 wagon six is originally the dove grey, although some where along the way some 1 thought a weedy green was the go! Also I always thought the battery for sixes were always located under the passenger seat, or did it vary?? It does have the recessed deluxe bonnet.

[Gustav]

Unfortunately it doesn't appear in the NSW Allocations books.

The closest vehicles were 34700198A and 34700253A both sent to dealers in May 1967 but I guess you knew the year as the six cylinder normal control were released for the 67 model year.

Diana :)
Thanks Diana, May 1967 seems a pretty fair assumption based on all those records.


I managed to speak to the previous owner who did the rebuild/resto work on the vehicle today - he reckons it's virtually all original & based on the engine condition when he had it apart thinks the 38,500 miles on the odometer is a genuine reading - I don't know about that tho!
He did the respray to the current green & said the original colour was "Sun gold" which fits with John's "orangy" colour & the yellow sandstone colour you mentioned for the early sixes. He also painted the brackets underneath that I thought may have been army green - an old can of "Brunswick Green" he had lying around.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Interesting about colour . My '70 wagon six is originally the dove grey, although some where along the way some 1 thought a weedy green was the go! Also I always thought the battery for sixes were always located under the passenger seat, or did it vary?? It does have the recessed deluxe bonnet.The RAN had all their vehicles in grey until some time in the 1970s. Do you know the origins of your vehicle?

Yes the six cylinders had their batteries under the LH seat, but I remember in the mid 1970s (about 1976) when Leyland Australia modified a batch of 16 gal under seat fuel tanks to produce 15gal under seat tanks for station wagons, a number of members of the LROC S relocated the battery to the engine bay which gave the wagons 46 gal of fuel without having to carry jerry cans.

[schuy1]

Now that's interesting, The only thing I know is that the person I got it from bought it as a restorer from Townsville.He thought it had been a local vehicle all its life. Apart from that I know nothing.

[Gustav]

Gus - as requested a few more photos.
Incidentally, one of the photos shows the 1967 date stamp on the original lucas generator. You may find other components similarly stamped which may help determining what is original.
The photo of the dash shows a non genuine attempt at a windscreen washer.
The paint has been redone but is the original colour.


Rgds
alan
Hi Alan,
Could you please tell me what colour vinyl your seats are? Wondering if my blue ones are original.
Also, if possible, would you mind taking a photo of the air filter? I'm interested to see where that black hose inserts - the one that I can see running back from the flame stopper? I've tried to mark it in the attached photo.
Regards,
Gus

[alanw]

Hello Gus,
Apologies for the delay.
The black hose is an agricultural patch to lessen the crud on the engine. It is a bit of low density poly pipe which is connected to the body of the oil bath air cleaner. Works a treat but is definitely not ex factory.
The seats have been recovered - but my recollection is that the originals were brown as well. Similar colour to the leather tabs that held them in place on the back.

[S3ute]

Hello from Brisbane.

The seats in my 1968 88" and in my late Dad's 1972 109" trucks were both tan.

Ditto my 1975 88" truck.

Cheers,

Neil