New D4 HSE or low km RRV?

[BushDisco]

Hope you are all treating your partners today as well as you treat your Discos!

I'm in the market for a replacement vehicle, and tossing up between a D4 HSE with quite a few options, or an MY 14 TDV8 RRV with the same options plus more.

Both come to around the same price, RRV is available now versus D4 which has a four month build time.

What to do?

[jonesfam]

Do you need 7 seats & more space?

[Graeme]

MY14 RRV (L405) TDV8 for same money as new D4? D4 prices must have jumped a lot since I last looked.

[chuck]

Whilst I love my D4 if I could have got that sort of deal last year when I bought mine I would have jumped at it.
Mind you I don't need 7 seats.
Get the extended warranty on the RRV that will make up for the shortfall.

Get 20" rims and you will be able to fit good AT's

Cheers

[BushDisco]

Hi Jonesfam, no seven seats is not critical, had a patrol the last 12 years and removed the rear seats the day I took ownership and installed a cargo barrier, fridge and draws much to my wife's disgust..

[BushDisco]

Hi Greame, not sure if they are common but found this one recently:

2012 Land Rover Range Rover Vogue TDV8 Luxury Auto 4x4 MY12 (http://email.notify.carsalesnetwork.com.au/wf/click?upn=P0dL28eiGTOXoZDgUJqOQ3Cc3PMS3Tr-2FYxw9D46pkh8-3D_aUC2lCv6gxgw-2FUokv2iuY9YPK18vnnAHojKCm0b7xjKrQOXaYBtk89Bpu5LbW RiujTmyFjTZxJa7YLH40UqmPXKWFiCgtCWY9kNu0ozMNG4ISVk 5pU3mEGqHuRQASr-2F9KULRMVv5D0jihvcp7kM2iEy4DoiYTgMG-2Bu6YZBMNKU6PW8ZUNpRZW-2BnSL9iF9h4dSV2HwyGRa-2BduTgtxoYhFuADDZJzN7rZ77iCykrl-2F0bDhWdyoffKqU7I5CrfUep-2FUlM-2FNEArodaCwKX8MgZNmVKMzJYX59BIW78g-2Bu8coEnDzeHDx-2FvzmlmAMTdBgGBatlKITtklf9gRKYk7ksHAgIVN4rz0PpLrmm wuN8jnAC40-3D).

2012 RRV Luxury in white with lots of options and low KMs for 120k, Approximately the cost of an optioned up HSE. It does have white leather which would be a nightmare in the Victorian bush with the mud and all, but it has the ediff, surround cameras etc and lots of other fun bits..

[BushDisco]

Hi Chuck, yes it is very tempting, now you see my dilemma. I don't want to bug a lemon, and it's in QLD whereas I'm in Melbourne so it would be sight unseen unless I fly up to view. And it has white leather but I believe you can get leather dye.

Also not sure about fitting decent LT tyres, dual battery, snorkel, UHF etc. on these pretty high tech and I assume cramped cockpits. Plus I am sure the servicing would be more expensive than a disco.

Mind you it's a cracker of a motor and someone else has already taken a bath on e price.

[Graeme]

That 2012 RRV is a L322 like mine, not a L405. L405s on Carsales start at around $150K.

Edit: Don't take the add for granted regarding the electronic locking diff as the standard definition refers to the centre locking diff, not the rear. Either have a look at the diff or check the VIN on Topix to see the build specifications.

I bought mine last August listed at $135K with 19K kms, not that I paid that price.

[rar110]

Maybe you should have a look at both the D4 and L322 to see how cramped they are compared to a patrol. If you have $150,000 to spend also look at a used L405.

I think the point Graeme was making is a 2014 RRV L405 is the new shape and so quite a lot more money than a D4 HSE. The D4 is in its coming up to or in its last model year of production.

The L322 in your post is a nice vehicle, but quite expensive. The L322 shape that dates back to 2002. Hence the jump in price for a L405.

Personally, I prefer the L322 style. But that's up to individual preference.

[CSBrisie]

Interesting dilemma indeed!

I bought a low km (19,000km) MY12 Vogue Luxury with e-diff back in 2013. It had suffered huge depreciation in its first year as the new model was released in 2013. The previous owner of my car had traded it on a new L405. Its worth noting on TDV8's the e-diff is very rare indeed.

If you head over to the L322 forum you will find a few ex D4 and RRS sport owners. I had a D4, so can compare the two.

Whilst there are now endless mods you can do to D3 & D4's, you might be suprised how much you can "prep" a L322 for offroad and outback trips. Mine has the factory expedition roof rack, full under body protection per the G4 challenge vehicles and 285/50 Cooper LTZ's on 20's which have been great. The tank is 105 litres and economy is excellent - sub 10l/100kms achieved with ease in the country.

We have a remote head UHF and remote head trailer brake controller (Redarc) and LLAMS all fitted - we have found easy spots in the cockpit to neatly locate the various switches. Also a dual battery kit (2nd battery sits in a factory fitted 2nd battery location on drivers side of rear cargo area); a cargo barrier, Drifta fridge box and slide and because you can never have enough torque (!) we fitted twin 3 inch exhaust, ECU remap (both via Roo Systems in Brisbane); I purchased a two year extended factory warranty in June last year.

The car has done a reasonable amount of off road work (including beach) and al lot of towing (Bushtracker Caravan 21 feet - so heavy!). We did the Red Centre via Boulia (from BNE) and the Plenty Highway last year (7000km trip) towing and with the LTZ's fitted. Trouble free.

In summary, the Vogue in my opinion is everything the D4 is - but with even more power and torque.

Personally, as much as I love the Vogue, in your shoes I'd probably buy a New D4, kit it out, and get a 5 year (3+2) warranty thrown in. But as you say...its a dilemma!!

FWIW, I note 2013 L405's 3.0l diesels are coming down in price - some in the 130K bracket which is not far off a new D4 HSE. Suspect a $120K L405 - albeit 6 cylinder diesel - isn't far off into the future....

cheers

[BushDisco]

Thanks Greame for the advise, yes it's not the current model but I actually prefer the look.

What are your thoughts on the L322? Assume you love it!

[Graeme]

Also not sure about fitting decent LT tyres, dual battery, snorkel, UHF etc. on these pretty high tech and I assume cramped cockpits. Plus I am sure the servicing would be more expensive than a disco.
275/55R20 fit with only requiring 1 screw to hold a spot on the RR inner guard away from the tyre, even if on the bump-stops. I've even fitted the spare in the spare wheel well, albeit having raised the floor panel about 50mm.

A 2nd battery can be fitted in the RR corner and connected to a significant power cable that runs from the battery in the front left to the rear fuse panel. Mine's a 100A AGM.

The MY11 & MY12 L322s have electronic shocks. I upgraded from a 3.0 D4 to the RRV for the shocks.

The cabin is very airy but doesn't have all the storage pockets of the D4.

[Grentarc]

Its worth noting on TDV8's the e-diff is very rare indeed.
It seems though, that all Overfinch L322 4.4 TDV8s came with E-Diff, and there is a 2011/MY12 one for under $90k in Melbourne
https://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/Land-Rover-Range-Rover-Vogue-2011/SSE-AD-3855265

[BushDisco]

Thanks CSBrisie and Rar110, it does seem to include the e-diff:

Differential Differential Rear - Active/Electronic

As well as surround camera, 20" rims and adaptive cruise as installed options, very tempting, and yes I know it's the older shape but I prefer it, I think the current shape makes it look overweight. My favourites (to look at) are the older ones with a classic look, narrower pillars and lots of light inside, however they aren't as reliable and are have none of the modern luxuries that make driving a newer car a pleasurable experience.

I have driven a HSE D4 for a day and found it great, much smoother suspension than the patrol and a more powerful motor. I'll be very sad when I let the patrol go though, it's been an awesome truck - no mechanical failures or significant wear on major components, 100% reliable and with leather and rear aircon a pleasure to drive. However it rides like a truck and I'd like more refinement as long as I'm not sacrificing reliability and off-road capability.

Working on a good deal on a D4 with ediff, surround cameras, upgraded stereo and a couple of other bits.

Whichever way I go I figure I'll be happy.

[BushDisco]

Yes the over finch was also on my watch list, but the KMs scared me off, I don't know the vehicle well enough to know what could go wrong and cost major money. However the car looks awesome from the specs.

Greame thanks for that excellent information, gives me a bit more confidence. I'm not one for for jumping in with both feet until I have thoroughly researched, however work is nuts at the moment and I have little time for research. Don't want to fall into analysis paralysis either!

If I went the Melbourne over finch what could be the worst I could be up for cost wise? New motor and transmission, new shocks? It's only 5 years old so body and electrics should be good. Expect to replace all suspension bushes, service the transmission etc. and being a big V8 I would expect it had another 100k or 2 before it gets tired.

[Grentarc]

At those kms, you would probably be looking at atleast new shocks (CVD style) as well as suspension bushes, but that means time and money, which is why it is $30,000 less than the white one. The 8 speed box is supposed to be miles better in terms of reliability compared to the earlier 6 speed. The thing going for the overfinch is that they piled in the extras, as it was something around $300,000 new from memory.

[BushDisco]

At those kms, you would probably be looking at new shocks (CVD style) as well as suspension bushes, but that means time and money, which is why it is $30,000 less than the white one. The 8 speed box is supposed to be miles better in terms of reliability compared to the earlier 6 speed. The thing going for the overfinch is that they piled in the extras, as it was something around $300,000 new from memory.

Which also means more to go wrong right? I have no issues spending the coin to replace shocks and bushes, whatever they cost because it also means as new suspension and confidence off-road.

If I went this rangie i would not turn it over in 5 years, probably keep until it just plain wears out, if the D4 then I would hope to see a decent second hand sale price in five years, especially is it would be an MY 16.5 hamburger with the lot.

[Graeme]

It seems though, that all Overfinch L322 4.4 TDV8s came with E-DiffNot the one that I considered, so not all of them.

[Graeme]

If I went the Melbourne over finch what could be the worst I could be up for cost wise? New motor and transmission, new shocks? The motor may need the updated secondary turbo if not already fitted and is to be driven mostly keeping the revs below 2500 rpm.

I expect the shocks to survive a lot longer than conventional shocks because their electronically controlled valve opening should compensate for worn seals. They will need to last a lot longer at around $1600 each! However 160K is not new as far as diffs, gearbox, transfer case and wheel bearings are concerned whereas a new D4 is new.

[Grentarc]

Not the one that I considered, so not all of them.
Oh, I thought this one is the one that was available when you were shopping around, as this one used to have the OFINCH number plate.

Other things to consider - D4 has warranty, L322 may not have had 2nd turbo drain fixed?
L322 is much more comfortable. D4 has a separate chassis - has pros and cons.

[Graeme]

No, it was white and only a Luxury rather than an AB.

[Graeme]

L322 is much more comfortable. D4 has a separate chassis - has pros and cons.The lack of a chassis and possibly also due to the CVDs when hitting the bump-stops produces a very severe and noisy jolt, not experienced in 5+ years of D4 ownership.

[rar110]

My 08 L322 has 250,000km, but with a great service history.

The only major work so far is transmission/TC was replaced, and that was only because LR didn't put any grease on the output spline. Although now it looks like I have to track down a coolant leak.

One owner on here suffered a failure with CVDs on the Gibb River Rd. My personal preference would be L322 4.4 without CVDs. The rear standard (non CVDs) are identical so only one spare required in the case of a failure.

[Graeme]

All 4.4 TDV8 L322s were fitted with CVDs. However if a rear one fails then it can be temporarily replaced with a conventional shock from an earlier model.

[BushDisco]

The issue is, and why I discounted the over finch rar110, is I don't know it's service history. That is my prime concern.

I am very pedantic about maintenance, and over the last 20 years of off-road driving across Australia that has resulted in no dramas in the bush (although I did blow a rear main seal in a SIIA ex army LWB when doing a long river crossing in the top end many years ago and the truck was too heavy to climb out of the river bank due to being full of river water!). Even in that example I managed to limp back to Darwin where I had to change the seal and clutch plate.

Not knowing the service history and what the driving style was like really puts me off and sends me back to a D4. I've wanted a Range Rover every since I was a kid in England in the 80s, is is just tugging on my heart strings, think I know the D4 is the most sensible way to go, but do we always have to be sensible?

[Graeme]

I had 2 particular requirements when looking for a L322. It had to have very low kms to be as-new as possible and not missed any servicing that I would do for a new vehicle (and did for the D4, eg very early engine and diff oil changes) and hopefully find one with an e-diff. The e-diff was important, as it was for my newly released D4, but not essential. I gave-up waiting for an e-diff but will retrofit one if I find one from a wrecked 4.4, most likely in the UK. All 5.0 SC have an e-diff but its a different ratio.

[cripesamighty]

Reading through the specs in the advert, I noticed the payload of the Overfinch was only 390kg. That's pretty crappy....

[BushDisco]

Reading through the specs in the advert, I noticed the payload of the Overfinch was only 390kg. That's pretty crappy....

Same for the L322 luxury advertised in QLD but that has less than 50k on the clock.

Still in two minds. Guess I can get a full RACQ inspection done and ask for a copy of the log book. Don't think it stated extended warranty and had a 2011 build date so will be out of warranty by now.

[Graeme]

All L322s are out of original warranty but my still have extended warranty.