Stall and gearbox error

[jonesy63]

Hi Folks,
I just got back from Lidsdale SF today. I drove in behind Rydal and up the top of the hill, then right , down to the bottom where "Firetruck Hill" starts.

At about 100m up from the bottom of "Firetruck Hill", my D4 stalled. I was in 1st gear, low range, rock crawl. The weird thing was that as well as the gearbox fault popping up on the screen, the power to dash went completely off. Pressing the start button - it started fine - but the time and date had gone back to factory default - like what happens when you disconnect the battery.

After starting, the gearbox fault warning disappeared, and the height went back to standard road height.

After it did this a few times, I decided to cut the trip short and headed back to break camp. Drove home to Sydney without any dramas.

It almost seems battery related - but has me stumped! Any ideas?

BTW, Firetruck Hill has eroded a *lot* since we were out there a couple of years ago for the D3/D4/RRS weekend.

Cheers,
Rob

[~Rich~]

Hi Rob, how old is your alternator and battery?
Diode pack may be on the way out, I'd definitely be getting both it and the battery checked out ASAP.
Variable voltages can wreak havoc though out the vehicle.

Jamie's favorite hill. ;)

[jonesy63]

Hi Rich,

I had a new alternator installed last year - think it was about March, so only about 20,000km on it (if that). Then this year a new starter motor. Battery has about 60,000km on it, but have been charging it once a week with my Ctek MXS10. Was running a fridge off the aux battery - but as it was about 3c overnight, not much demand on it! ;)

Cheers,
Rob

[LRD414]

Rob, my guess would be loose earth connection. Or possibly a shorting wire. Drove back to Sydney ok perhaps because not being bounced around. Both Mungus and myself lost power to dash with shorting wires in completely different locations so finding it could be difficult if it's that.

Scott

[sheerluck]

Rob,

Check your battery connections, my D3 gave me exactly the same symptoms last year, and I found that the screw clamp on the negative terminal had worn to the point that it seemed to tighten ok, but as soon as it was jolted or under heavy load, it "relaxed" and the engine and all electrics would cut.

[jonesy63]

Thanks Scott and Dave - I had to repair the positive post terminal a few months ago... I forgot to even look at the negative! I'll take a look tonight when I get home.

I suspect heat soak had something to do with it as well, as I paused at the bottom of the hill and idled for a few minutes - while my daughter's boyfriend took some photos of the top of Lake Lyell.

BTW, it looks like you can now cross the "river" there again - near the bottom of Firetruck Hill.

Cheers,
Rob

[jonesy63]

Apologies for the length of this post! :angel:

I checked the battery terminals yesterday. Positive was still ok from when I repaired it a few months ago. Negative seemed ok, but when I took it off, there seemed to be a lot of dust under the terminal. (Care of being "tail-end Charlie" on a lot of trips). I cleaned up both terminals and battery posts and added some CRC battery terminal protector on the posts and repaired the clamp for the negative terminal (almost out of adjustment space). I then put it on charge overnight.

Today I hooked up my Nanocom and looked at faults - there were 30 faults from 22 ECUs! Here's the list:
U0100 - lost comms with ECM/PCM (intermittent)
U0102 - lost comms with TCM (intermttent)
U0128 - lost comms with parking brake control module (intermittent)
U0141 - lost comms with body control module (intermittent)
U0159 - lost comms with parking assist control (intermittent)
U3003 - battery voltage (intermittent)
P0562 - system voltage low (historic)
U0100 - lost comms with ECM/PCM (historic)
P081C - park input circuit (historic)
U0155 - lost comms with instrument cluster control module (historic)
U0126 - lost comms with steering angle sensor (historic)
U0102 - lost comms with TCM (historic)
P0607 - control module performance (intermittent)
U0100 - lost comms with PCM/ECM (intermittent)
U0415 - invalid data received from ABS control module (intermittent)
U0402 - invalid data received from transmission control module (intermittent)
P0607 - control module performance (intermittent)
U0100 - lost comms with PCM/ECM (intermittent)
U0415 - invalid data received from ABS control module (intermittent)
B100D - column lock authorisation (historic)
U0100 - lost comms with PCM/ECM (historic)
B10A2 - crash input (historic)
P0702 - transmission control system electrical (intermittent)
C1B14 - sensor supply 1 (historic)
B1081 - left temp damper motor (intermittent)
B1082 - right temp damper motor (intermittent)
B1085 - defrost damper motor (intermittent)
B1086 - air distribution damper motor (intermittent)
B1B7B - air blend actuator - rear left (intermittent)
B1B7D - aire distribution actuator - rear (intermittent)

After clearing the above faults, I started the D4 and then checked for faults again. "U0128 - lost comms with parking brake controller" came up. I'm wondering if there is a canbus fault near that? Anyhow, cleared that fault and will check again after a few days to see if any faults re-appear.

[sheerluck]

The connector above and behind the rear left wheel would be worth some investigation i reckon.

[LandyAndy]

If its any help,I had to help a Westrac spannerman find a problem in the loom on my CAT grader recently.
All I had to do was monitor his laptop whilst he played with the wires.
Firstly he located the loom with the issue using the laptop and fault codes generated,he had it on datalog so the fault would change from historic/current as he moved wires,all I had to do was say if it was current.Pretty sure you SHOULD be able to do this with the nanocom.
Anyhow he gradually worked along the loom wiggling the individual wires in the loom until he found where the point in the loom was where the problem was generating the fault.It was where the loom was clamped to the engine.Sure enough when he opened the wire up that was tripping the fault it was broken internally at that point.
My fault was intermittent for a few days then constant,except for when he played with the wires.Spannerman says that it was the wire making contact then no contact then finally not being able to make contact that caused the fault codes.
Must remind them that they were to return and replace the damaged/repaired harness under warranty.
GOODLUCK
Andrew

[jonesy63]

Just an update... the fact that the fault only happens in low range when the e-diff is engaging led my mechanic to disconnect the connector to the e-diff last week (& taped silicone gloves over them). I went to Jenolan SF last weekend to do a recce for Range Rover Club and it did the same thing.

The connectors in rear wheel arch were fine.

My D4 is back in for further investigations. The saga continues. :mad:

[SBD4]

Rob, is it possible that the issue is in the taped up connector?

[jonesy63]

Hi Sean - possibly. I also wonder if there is a dud relay somewhere which is triggered in these conditions? Or say, a fault in the solenoid on the transfer case (that selects low range).

[sheerluck]

....The connectors in rear wheel arch were fine.

Rob,

If I remember correctly, that cable starts at the connector above the left hand headlamp, runs down through the inner guard, through the left hand front wheelarch, then down the chassis rail. That front wheelarch may be worth looking at, if you've had issues with wheels rubbing.

[jonesy63]

Thanks Dave - but I think I'll need to look for a wiring diagram. It seems to me that the high speed CAN bus cable would daisy chain from EPB to e-diff (or vice versa). If it was a problem further towards the front, surely there would be issues in high range and low range. EPB module could also be at fault, although not sure why - unless hill start assist is trying to kick in - when in low range?

[sheerluck]

I don't think I've got a D4 wiring diagram, but I have got a 2010 RRS one. I've have a hunt and see if it helps.

[LRD414]

Thanks Dave - but I think I'll need to look for a wiring diagram. It seems to me that the high speed CAN bus cable would daisy chain from EPB to e-diff (or vice versa). If it was a problem further towards the front, surely there would be issues in high range and low range. EPB module could also be at fault, although not sure why - unless hill start assist is trying to kick in - when in low range?
Rob, I have a copy of the D4 wiring diagram and yes the rear diff is actually last item on the CAN bus high speed "daisy chain" and the park brake is the one before it. The pdf is probably too big to email.

Scott

[Grentarc]

Here are the wiring diagrams (http://www.waggafish.com/Downloads/Land-Rover/D4_wiring_diagrams.pdf)

[sheerluck]

Thanks Justin, I've just spent a couple of hours hunting for that, as the RRS one I have wasn't much help.

[jonesy63]

Hi Folks,
I just wanted to close this thread and let everyone know what the cause was.

In short, the multiple Uxxx DTC were a symptom, but not the cause. The real cause turned out to be a short in the main power cable that goes from the bottom of the megafuse to the alternator and starter motor. The cable routes behind the alternator, past the chassis and engine mount... back to the starter motor. Just behind the alternator, the cable was shorting on a bolt attached to the chassis.

So on road and smooth-ish offroad tracks, the cable was bouncing on the chassis and giving canbus errors - because the computers were not getting steady voltage to operate and communicate with each other. On severe offroad tracks, the cable was banging on the chassis harder - which caused the stall. On the now two occasions on *really* hard tracks - the megafuse blows. When that happens - game over, red rover!

Here's a photo of the spont on the cable where it was shorting - just before it goes onto the back of the alternator:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/10/494.jpg
Notice how the conduit shielding has moved back from the end of the lead? My mechanic made sure he added extra on the new cable ($336 btw) when he installed it (3.75 hours labour).

Here's a photo of the megafuse, which blew twice - leaving me stranded:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/10/114.jpg

So happy that I can now rely on my D4 again while offroad! I can feel the permagrin coming back! :D:D:D

Cheers,
Rob

[Ean Austral]

Thanks Jonesy63,

I ran a new seperate alternator cable on my D3 and I can certainly see how easy that could happen.

Glad you found the problem.

Cheers Ean

[Graeme]

Just an update... the fact that the fault only happens in low range when the e-diff is engaging led my mechanic to disconnect the connector to the e-diff last week (& taped silicone gloves over them).In case anyone else feels the need to disconnect an e-diff, a safer option for the plug and e-diff connector is to remove the e-diff's 40A fuse.

[jonesy63]

Rather than adding a new post with photos, I've edited my previous post with photos.

One lesson learned - 10mm spanner (to undo battery terminal) and a torx bit to fit the megafuse is a *really* good idea to take with you on trips.

[~Rich~]

I had the positive terminal erode due to a faulty battery post leaking acid, I priced the OE one and it included the mega fuse and cable to the alternator $465!

Got one off a LR wreaker complete for $65.

[Graeme]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/10/494.jpg
Notice how the conduit shielding has moved back from the end of the lead? My mechanic made sure he added extra on the new cable ($336 btw) when he installed it (3.75 hours labour).The workshop manual has very specific instructions regarding the angle of the bracket on the starter motor bolt to ensure that the bracket and cable cannot rub on anything. I suspect that the angle wasn't properly set or the bracket was bent when last R&R'd.

[jonesy63]

The workshop manual has very specific instructions regarding the angle of the bracket on the starter motor bolt to ensure that the bracket and cable cannot rub on anything. I suspect that the angle wasn't properly set or the bracket was bent when last R&R'd.

I was told it was the alternator end - not the starter. But yeah, the alternator was replaced in about March last year. ;)

[Graeme]

It's good to know that the alternator section of the cable is heavy enough to blow the mega-fuse before it melts the insulation and starts a fire..