Possible gearbox problems.

[dranoweb]

So I've just completed a 900km journey through some rough mountain passes in snow country.

I notice a few new squeeks and rattles to find, but more worrying is the reverberation in 4th gear under load.

It feels alot like im missing on one cylinder but only ocurrs in 4th gear under load.

I'm concerned it may be a shot bearing sonewhere. I also note a faint whirribg sound when in between gears downshifting.



Sent from my E6653 using AULRO mobile app

[87County]

I wonder if it may be a fuel starvation problem

A miss/hesitation under load in 4th can occur if the lift pump filter is partly blocked .

Worth checking if you haven't already done so

[87County]

Have a read of this thread

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/isuzu-landy-enthusiasts-section/114440-isuzu-fuel-pump-died.html

Post #26 shows the offending item and gives some guidance for dealing with it.

[dranoweb]

I woner if it may be a fuel starvation problem

A miss/hesitation under load in 4th can occur if the lift pump filter is partly blocked .

Worth checking if you haven't already done so

Fuel filter changed immediately before trip - sedimenter drained before trip. Banjo fittings checked for filters - none found.

But I did notice it began to lack power on the return trip a little.

Sent from my E6653 using AULRO mobile app

[87County]

Fuel filter changed immediately before trip - sedimenter drained before trip. Banjo fittings checked for filters - none found.

But I did notice it began to lack power on the return trip a little.

Sent from my E6653 using AULRO mobile app

Sounds to me like you may not have checked the filter I am referring to?

The filter I am talking about is more a strainer and is hidden under the lift pump - rarely gets checked (see photo referred to above)

[dranoweb]

Fuel starvation is a good probability given what i've read.
Picked up fuel in inknown locations and done rough roads, and on my last quarter tank.

All recipies for picking up crap from the tank.

Sent from my E6653 using AULRO mobile app

[dranoweb]

Sounds to me like you may not have checked the filter I am referring to?

The filter I am talking about is more a strainer and is hidden under the lift pump - rarely gets checked (see photo referred to above)

I'm just looking up images of the lift pump to find out what/where that is.

Do you mean the hand primer on the side of the injection pump?

Or is this a separate entity in the tank area?

Sent from my E6653 using AULRO mobile app

[87County]

refer to link in post #3 above - as I wrote, post #26 in the linked thread gives a full description of what to do

[dranoweb]

refer to link in post #3 above - as I wrote, post #26 in the linked thread gives a full description of what to do

Will do

Sent from my E6653 using AULRO mobile app

[Chris078]

That little filter is a PITA to find and get out.
Directly under the hand pump is the banjo bolt in question that you need to remove.
You need a bent, short handled wrench, or take off the fuel line next to it so you have room to work.

Be careful, there is a little washer in there that is easy to miss when you take it off if it gets stuck on the housing. The filter itself is tiny, less than 8mm across by less than 20mm high. Really, really small.

If your problem was fuel starvation, I would have thought you would have experienced it when accelerating? Or does it not work that way?

Have you driven it heavy before? 4 th gear I've found is good if you're up to speed, but if you're loaded and hit an uphill grade, it really shows up the engines lack of power (60 odd kw is not much in a ~ 3 ton vehicle once you add fuel, passengers and gear)

[dranoweb]

It got worse progressively over the past 1000km on a mountain trip with very rough roads. Found it wasn't able to hill climb the samy way on the return.

Experimented on lunch break today and cruises smothly on flat level road with tail wind.

Into the wind under acceleration, it feels like i have 4 flats about to fly off the rims.

Sent from my E6653 using AULRO mobile app

[JDNSW]

The other thing to look for is part of the engine/drive train contacting the body/chassis under load. The most likely is some part of the exhaust system. Also possibly a loose or damaged engine mount.

John

[dranoweb]

Doesnt feel like body contact. It's more of a wobble like a flat tire.
I checked tires several times on way home

Sent from my E6653 using AULRO mobile app

[JDNSW]

Also check for loose drive shaft flanges or U-joints. (and you are sure you don't have a loose wheel are you?)

John

(I'm not trying to discount fuel starvation - I agree that this is probably the most likely, but there are other possibilities)

[dranoweb]

After having one drive flange damaged, i carry breaker bars and spare sockets af all times and check them regularly.

Also recently replaced all drive flange bolts.

there's not clunk or rattle associated with it.

"Soft reverberation" is how i would describe it.

But just to be sure, ill check flanges etc tonight as well.

Sent from my E6653 using AULRO mobile app

[dranoweb]

Appears to be magnetic debris.

Possible rusty tank?

Next stop sedimentor before daylight runs out

Sent from my E6653 using AULRO mobile app

[Chris078]

|appears to be magnetic debris

Where was that debris mate? In the banjo filter?
Spoke to a guy who used to service these thing in the Army a while back and he said the fuel tanks in there are notorious for rusting out.
Post trip clean should definitely include removing the drivers seat cushion, popping the inspection panel and giving it a good clean and coating of Lanolin.

This is why you should clean the top of your tank.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/05/452.jpg


If you cannot get the little plastic butterfly on the bottom of the sedimenter undone, there is a nut on top you can undo and the whole unit comes out.


soft reverberation. how does it behave if you step on the brakes as hard as you can?

You might be a blown suspension bush somewhere (you said you went over some rough stuff)
Or the rear a-frame ball joint may be failing.

[dranoweb]

Apologies. Pictures didn't load on last post.

Debris in banjo filter.

It's perfectly fine in all other gears but 4th.

Just went for a drive, it's better but not cured.

Coasting is smooth, as is hard braking.
i can hear some faint gearbox whining that sounds like the straight cut gearbox from a delorian.

But it hasn't changed in the last 1000km.

Sent from my E6653 using AULRO mobile app

[dranoweb]

Hey - question, is there a pickup filter in the tank?

Sent from my E6653 using AULRO mobile app

[Bearman]

There is no filter on the end of the pickup tube.

[Chris078]

Hey - question, is there a pickup filter in the tank?

Sent from my E6653 using AULRO mobile app


Just looked at the book, there does not seem to be.

That does not mean that some crap is not blocking it.

If you put it in second and give it a bootful up to the redline, does it lag or feel starved?
I would have though it would consume more fuel accelerating hard in second or third than cruising in 4th.
Have you checked there is nothing blocking the air intake?

[Chris078]

hi mate.

If you go here Repair Parts Schedule (RPS) -REMLR (http://www.remlr.com/rps.html)

scroll down till you find a link
PUBR001 - Land Rover Perentie 4x4 Combined Parts Book V1.01 LARGE FILE 18 MB

click on that and you can view/download the full parts book.

[dranoweb]

Just looked at the book, there does not seem to be.

That does not mean that some crap is not blocking it.

If you put it in second and give it a bootful up to the redline, does it lag or feel starved?
I would have though it would consume more fuel accelerating hard in second or third than cruising in 4th.
Have you checked there is nothing blocking the air intake?

Air filter was checked at purchase but i do have a spare inner and outer.

Revs up just fine. Only emerges in 4th under acceleration or load.

This is what made me think gearbox.
Fuel econony over last 1000km was 10.6L/100km

Beforehand was averaging 9.5


Sent from my E6653 using AULRO mobile app

[dranoweb]

hi mate.

If you go here Repair Parts Schedule (RPS) -REMLR (http://www.remlr.com/rps.html)

scroll down till you find a link
PUBR001 - Land Rover Perentie 4x4 Combined Parts Book V1.01 LARGE FILE 18 MB

click on that and you can view/download the full parts book.

Think i have that full file printed in a folder in the map pocket.

Sent from my E6653 using AULRO mobile app

[Chris078]

Air filter was checked at purchase but i do have a spare inner and outer.

Revs up just fine. Only emerges in 4th under acceleration or load.

This is what made me think gearbox.
Fuel econony over last 1000km was 10.6L/100km

Beforehand was averaging 9.5


Sent from my E6653 using AULRO mobile app

It's a useful document, wasn't sure if you had it or not.

Couldn't hurt to swap out the filters.
What i actually meant to check in the air hose under the wing. Just inside the end of the hose, there is a circular bracket to keep the hose open against the thing that holds it in place. This bracket has a 1cmx1cm mesh in it. might be worth checking there isn't a leaf or plastic bag or something in there.

Maybe also check that the accelerator cable is pulling the lever on the fuel pump all the way open when it's on the floor. Might not matter too much if your a couple of hundred rpm short in the lowers gears, in 4th you really need everything if your on a slope.


dropping the gearbox oil and see if there is anything excessive on the magnet or in the gearbox oil filter might be your next step.

<edit> thought. fuel economy increasing, lack of power at high speed; clogged/faulty injectors perhaps?

[dranoweb]

I procured a spare set of injectors at auction a while back.

All oils and lube in the entire vehicle was changed prior to trip - gearbox included.

Was very dark with a few shiny sprinkles but very little brass.

but im doing engine oil soon, couldn't hurt to do gearbox again

Sent from my E6653 using AULRO mobile app

[Chris078]

I procured a spare set of injectors at auction a while back.

All oils and lube in the entire vehicle was changed prior to trip - gearbox included.

Was very dark with a few shiny sprinkles but very little brass.

but im doing engine oil soon, couldn't hurt to do gearbox again

Sent from my E6653 using AULRO mobile app

What kind of condition were they (the injectors) in? I've thought about grabbing some if they ever do a parts auction in Brisbane.

Good thing 15w40 is cheap(ish). Just thought if you suspect something in the gearbox, checking the oil might be a good idea.

[dranoweb]

Well it will have to wait for the weekend now.

Injectors look well used. Planning to get nozzles replaced before swapping over.

Sent from my E6653 using AULRO mobile app

[dranoweb]

As a side thought - could this be a clutch issue?

I replaced the slave cylinder before my trip as I had been loosing fluid.

When I pulled the drain plug on the bell housing, nothing came out, but had a residue the same colour as the contaminated fluid.

I've read something about "dual mass flywheels" causing this issue.

But my knowledge of clutch technology is a little weak.

But the thought of an unbalanced flywheel would be in keeping with what i'm feeling

Sent from my E6653 using AULRO mobile app

[dranoweb]

Had a chat to my favorite mechanic. Went for a test drive and hoisted inspection.

Stuffed front uni joint.

Currently arranging to replace all of them

Sent from my E6653 using AULRO mobile app

[Chris078]

Had a chat to my favorite mechanic. Went for a test drive and hoisted inspection.

Stuffed front uni joint.

Currently arranging to replace all of them

Sent from my E6653 using AULRO mobile app


Hope that fixes the problem.

[dranoweb]

Hope that fixes the problem.

Ill be chasing up all other suggestions too.

Priced a new tank - $780.
Think I'll get it refurbished.

Sent from my E6653 using AULRO mobile app

[JDNSW]

.....

I've read something about "dual mass flywheels" causing this issue.



The Perentie does not have a dual mass flywheel - this is fitted to the TD5 engine (1999-2007 Defender).

John

[Chris078]

Ill be chasing up all other suggestions too.

Priced a new tank - $780.
Think I'll get it refurbished.

Sent from my E6653 using AULRO mobile app


Is there something wrong with the one that's in it?

[dranoweb]

Aside from rusting out it's pretty good.

Sent from my E6653 using AULRO mobile app

[dranoweb]

Got new uni joints overnighted to me today, they sent good GKN jobs.

Can't tell if these are standard or heavy duty ones - research indicates standards.

In either case they have to be better than damaged ones.

inspected uni joint myself tonight and it is indeed buggered - about 3mm of play.

I'll be replacing all four for good measure.

Also discovered one spring a touch shoter than the rest, so they are next on the hit list, as is a grease gun for the tool boxes so I can grease the uni joints in the field on longer trips.

Sent from my E6653 using AULRO mobile app

[dranoweb]

Hope that fixes the problem.

Indeed it did, and aldo solved some other squeaks, rattles, and my downshifting trouble.

Everything runs like I'm floating on air... with a 4L desiel in bed next to me.

Replaced both uni joints on front shaft, rears looked like they had been done recently and were in very good cond, so greased and left in place.

Looks like all my issues boiled down to a single blocked grease nipple.

Sent from my E6653 using AULRO mobile app

[dranoweb]

Some more pictures:

Sent from my E6653 using AULRO mobile app

[dranoweb]

I suspect I may have put one of the front uni joints in backwards, and now have issues getting the grease gun on it.

Sent from my E6653 using AULRO mobile app

[Dervish]

I suspect I may have put one of the front uni joints in backwards, and now have issues getting the grease gun on it.

Sent from my E6653 using AULRO mobile app

Sounds normal, I've filed down the head of my grease gun so it fits.

[DieselLSE]

The nipple hole should be offset so that the nipple is angled slightly back towards the propellor shaft. That is, the nipple should face away from the diff flange and the transfer case output flange.
If you do have it in the wrong way, it should be easy to remove/refit as the cones will not yet have "welded" themselves into the housing. Just be gentle and make sure you don't damage the cones and needles. Ideally, use a press and use a slightly ground old cone (or suitably sized socket) as a guide. But you use a hammer OK.
You shouldn't have to file down a grease gun head to fit the nipple, but some heads are bigger than others. But of course you will need to rotate the shaft to find the optimal position for the grease gun to fit. In my (albeit limited) experience each end of each shaft seems to have its own particular greasing sweet spot angle!

[dranoweb]

Ok from that description it sounds like I have them in the correct orientation.

I think the issue is the front most joint is at a different angle.

Might just be a case of perseverence.


Sent from my E6653 using AULRO mobile app

[Chris078]

I've found that all grease gun couplings are too wide to fit.
bought one of these
Grease GUN Needle Adapter Ideal FOR Greasing Chainsaw Bars | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/GREASE-GUN-NEEDLE-ADAPTER-IDEAL-FOR-GREASING-CHAINSAW-BARS-/171339131948?hash=item27e49bac2c:g:gdAAAOSwepJXYvE u)

It's a bit of a pest as you have to hold it in position on the grease nipple, but it works.

Good idea to take your car for a drive before greasing to get it nice and warm. You do often need to rotate the shaft to get all 4 ends of the uni greased.

[gromit]

I suspect I may have put one of the front uni joints in backwards, and now have issues getting the grease gun on it.

Sent from my E6653 using AULRO mobile app

Have a look at this thread http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/176619-front-propshaft-greasing-hint.html


Colin

[dranoweb]

just an update now that the aulro app works again.- I solved this issue for $6 at bursons

Longer grease nipples:https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/06/537.jpghttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/06/538.jpghttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/06/539.jpghttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/06/540.jpg

[BadCo.]

So Drano, you have to remove and refit the nipples every time you grease them?

I've never had an issue with greasing the the uni's, and I use a basic grease gun from supercheap. (http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/Product/Alemlube-Grease-Gun-Trigger-450g/360750)

[dranoweb]

So Drano, you have to remove and refit the nipples every time you grease them?

I've never had an issue with greasing the the uni's, and I use a basic grease gun from supercheap. (http://www.supercheapauto.com.au/Product/Alemlube-Grease-Gun-Trigger-450g/360750)
Nipples stay in. They clear the yokes (just).
I too have a basic gun. But the 5mm long nipples that come with the gkn uj's are inaccessible on the front due to the higher angle. I found I was neglecting them out of frustration. They are very easy to access when pointing vertically downwards now.

[BadCo.]

Oh wow, so they don't jam up in the UJ? Interesting...

[dranoweb]

No it's quite an elegant solution. I think I'll do the rears too.

[BadCo.]

Have you tested with the suspension and max droop?

[dranoweb]

I took it for a heavily laden excursion this weekend. So far no sign of indentation on the yokes.

Its my understanding that with compression that the angle of incidence decreases - particularly on the front.

[BadCo.]

I took it for a heavily laden excursion this weekend. So far no sign of indentation on the yokes.

Its my understanding that with compression that the angle of incidence decreases - particularly on the front.

Yes, I was meaning sticking it on a 2 post hoist and then trying to spin the shafts.

[dranoweb]

I have access to one. I'll try that when next up the hoist.

[thomson]

In the aircraft game we had a grease gun fitting that was pointed and you just poked it in to the end of the nipple , so fitted into very tight spaces . If you go into ebay and look at grease gun fittings you will see kits that have the piece in them , but I am sure you can buy them by themselves , mine were part of my retirement package

[dranoweb]

Yes I tried grease needles, not the easiest thing to use in the field and/or when one can't see the nipple. So far there are no signs of interference with the yokes even after a long weekend of bush bashing