Perentie very notchy in first/second.

[Jonnooh]

Hi, I was wondering if it was normal for the gearbox to be quite notchy in first and second, often difficult to get it into first despite taking your foot off the clutch several times, and often needs a good shove to get it there? I suspect this is just normal wear and tear but as Ive not driven any other than mine was wondering how normal this is....

Jon

[JDNSW]

To some extent it depends on what you are comparing it to! But the gearbox can be fussy about the oil in it - For example, I found that a synthetic gear oil removed a problem I had getting it out of first gear when cold. The only point to bear in mind is that you must not use a thicker oil than that specified.

The other thing that will cause this is a dragging clutch. This may be either an incipient failure of the slave or master cylinder, or small quantities of oil on the clutch from an oil leak in either the crankshaft rear main seal or the gearbox oil pimp. Removing the wading plug should confirm or refute this last possibility.

John

[Chris078]

Don't try and put it into first unless you are completely stopped.

if it resists going in then, keep the clutch pedal on the floor, put it in second gear then the gearstick should slide relatively easily up into first.

As JDNSW mentioned, oil can play a big part.
Has it been changed recently? If not it's a pretty easy thing to do.
The type of oil you use is up to you.
The book says to use 15w40 Diesel engine oil.

Some people, again like JDNSW, have had good results from putting proper gearbox oil in it.
Castrol VMX80 (http://www.castrol.com/en_au/australia/products/cars/manual-transmission-fluids/manual-vmx-80w.html) and Penrite 75w-90 (https://www.penriteoil.com.au/products.php?id_categ=4&id_products=380) are two that I know a couple of major Service centres use. Now, some people will tell you not to use gear oil because it will wreck the oil pump in the gearbox because gear oil is thicker.

The castrol site says VMX 80 is the equivelant of 10w30 and google says 75w-90 gear oil is about 10w40, so in this instance, that does not seem to be the case. (put something like 85w140 in there are yes, it will die very quickly)
but you never know. That's a risk you take.

Gear oil is also much more expensive than engine oil.

I'd change the Gearbox and T/C oils, and see what happens.
If it's still notchy, you could try putting a 125ml tube Nulon G70 (http://www.nulon.com.au/products/Specialty_Products/Manual_Gearbox_and_Diff_Treatment) in the gearbox (I do this and for me the results are excellent)

[87County]

I endorse what JD posts. In our extended family we use Castrol Syntrans in a total of 7 LRs incl 4 LT95s, 1 R380 and 2 LT 85s on the basis that it assists with smoother shifting and it can be used for extending oil change intervals.

The additives in Syntrans and any of the similar spec modern light gear oils mean that they are always going to better in use than straight engine oil.

Standard gearbox oils must not be used in these gearboxes.

[cummo]

+1 for Nulon G70. I use it gearbox, transfer case and differentials of all my older vehicles.

Dave

[Jonnooh]

Thanks all, I was thinking about the oil. I don't know what's in it... I'll try syntrans and see how it goes....

Jon

[Jonnooh]

Thanks all. Well I took out what seems to be the wading plug at the bottom of the bell housing and this black slippery stuff came out. Is this a bad thing?

[Jonnooh]

To some extent it depends on what you are comparing it to! But the gearbox can be fussy about the oil in it - For example, I found that a synthetic gear oil removed a problem I had getting it out of first gear when cold. The only point to bear in mind is that you must not use a thicker oil than that specified.

The other thing that will cause this is a dragging clutch. This may be either an incipient failure of the slave or master cylinder, or small quantities of oil on the clutch from an oil leak in either the crankshaft rear main seal or the gearbox oil pimp. Removing the wading plug should confirm or refute this last possibility.

John

Thanks all. Well I took out what seems to be the wading plug at the bottom of the bell housing and this black slippery stuff came out. Is this a bad thing?

[JDNSW]

Thanks all. Well I took out what seems to be the wading plug at the bottom of the bell housing and this black slippery stuff came out. Is this a bad thing?

Not good, but how bad mainly depends on how much came out.

The black means it is at least partly engine oil, although it may have some gearbox oil mixed with it. If there was only a spoonful or less, and you get no more than this between services (check it every few days to make sure how bad it is!) you do not need immediate action.

If there was much more, you need an almost immediate repair, as this oil will get on the clutch if it has not already done so. It will be either an engine out or gearbox out job (I have trierd both and I don't think there is a lot to choose between them, but it depends a bit on what equipment you have available.

The black, as I said, is engine oil, and indicates the main rear seal is leaking. This requires removing the flywheel to replace, but is not a very difficult job. It may have mixed with it some gearbox oil, which will probably be from a warped cover on the oil pump on the front of the box. This can be replaced, or simply lapped flat. While apart, you probably want to replace the driven plate, even if it is not contaminated wioth oil, and depending on condition the pressure plate and possibly need to get the flywheel machined. Most will replace the pilot bush and release bearing as a matter of routine when doing this job.

John

[Jonnooh]

Thanks JDNSW... it was more than a teaspoon, had to put the plug back in before it made too much of a mess of the driveway. I don't think I'll be doing this job myself because the weight of everything and I'm not anywhere as fit as I used to be a few years ago due to medical probs... It probably won't even fit under the garage door because of the slope of the driveway...!