Turbo Upgrade on a 300 Tdi?

[nosch]

Hi you downunder. A reason to join this forum for me was to ask if there is anybody who has done a turbocharger-conversion at his 300 tdi. Over here its not very common and nobody has any experiance whether driving conditions change as promised. I´m talking about going for the Mitsubishi watercooled turbo assembly for example. Can anybody tell me if its worth the money?

thanks and regards, Norbert

87 RRC 300 Tdi Auto

[jase]

not many people do turbo upgrades on 300Tdi's as the exhaust manifold is intrigal with the turbo housing so also needs replacement if turbo is replaced
If you are serious look at the TGV turbo off the HS2.8 (get it complete with manifolds) I'm told the differance is amazing as the variable geometry gives full boost at something like 1200rpm unlike the tdi's 2000rpm
Jase

PS I take it you are not in oz?
I import the engines to oz and could get you pricing if you like
if near or in US i can give you contact details for over there
Jase

[nosch]

Hi Jase, I´m posting from Berlin / Germany.

It was this thing that I was asking about:

http://www.lrautomotive.com.au/10.html

There is no offer like that over here, whereas there are some different companies in australia who do actually. This let me suggest to find somebody here who has done that conversion. May be there could be any gap with the water cooling?

The TGV turbo on tdi is heavily discussed around the globe. Mostly people do fear temperature problems for the old tdi engines. Do you have any different experiance? What would be your price for the kit?

There are companies in Germany who sell only complete HS 2.8 engines, but I have contacts to Stephen Cahill in Canada as well who says to get them directly from brazil.

cu, Norbert

[LRHybrid100]

I'm guessing you have already recalibrated your injection pump, increased your boost, adjusted your fuel and changed your intercooler?

If not I would be looking to do them first - you will be REALLY surprised how well the Tdi can dance once you have played a little.

LRH

[Lindsay]

I am also interested in getting more out of the 300tdi- who could do the work referred to in the last post and would it create any reliability problems and how much would it all cost ??ie recalibrate the injection pump, increased the boost, adjusted the fuel and changed the intercooler?

Other options are

the dieselgas system for around $3500 fitted with excellent gains in power , torque and economy claimed

the mitsubishi turbo and intercooler upgrade for about $2600 fitted-this is meant to provide good power and torque gains but not so much economy, and not as much power and torque as the dieselgas system. An advantage of this is that you could sell the old turbo and intercooler to recoup some costs.

Food for thought
:wink: Lindsay

[nosch]

@ lindsay

dieselgas would be the first option - but not in germany. It`s not allowed yet for diesels. I wonder why.

@ LRH

recalibrated inj pump yes. turbo got overhauled lastely. no boost increase yet, no fuel adjust. Intercooler has been changed for a bigger one in original place due to aircondition. When I put the engine in the Range I had to convert to mechanical injection because of the EDC immobilizer. There was an ecu- thingy of the alarm system missing that communicats a signal with the chip in the engines ecu what is essential to give fuel more than zero to start. Therefore I`m now missing 9 PS generally. Although I got these two machting ecus meanwhile, I wonder if putting them in will help the tdi dance.

The overall question for me is, what more money to spend in the 300 tdi than change completely for the HS 2.8 TGV and better sell my tdi package?

I have hoped that minimum every 10th of you has done the mitsubishi turbo conversion and somebody would send me a secondhand kit for little money by chance bypacked to the christmascake-package for his grandma in germany style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

Seems I was wrong with that :cry:

[jase]

Linsay
recalibrating injector pump fueling and turning up boost is fairly straight fwd and is only a couple of hrs of "tinkering" if your not confidant to do it yourself Ray @ Romsey LR repair will do it for you (cheap, ask him but i would think a couple of hundred) call him on (03) 5429 5021
yes getting more HP out of anything will reduce it's life but as long as your realistic (both in how much you turn it up & how you use it) you shouldn't have any problems

Norbet
I would have to confirm pricing but i'm pretty sure I could get you brand new TGV turbo & manifold for less than the LR automotive turbo kit (note the price is from $2k the $2k kit is for a 200 tdi for a 300 tdi you also need the exh manifold)
I import the 2.8 TGV engines into aust (free plug 8) ) I would have to get freight prices to germany but think I could land a brand new engine there for about 5000EUR (+ any dutys and taxes you need to pay) (obviusly i would get sent straight to you from the factory not via aust)

I have a freind who manufacturers intercoolers, I have been meaning to get something made for the 300 tdi, I did a pricing exercise with him a while ago and they worked out at about $600ea if I could sell 20+
if I get enough intereset I may revist it

Jase

[rick130]

DTS/MTQ engine services have an upgrade kit using a Mitsubishi TDO4 turbo (don't know what compressor/turbine wheels) and a new exhaust manifold that bolts up to the existing exhaust sytem.
Disconout had one on his old Disco (surprised he hasn't chimed in yet. ?)

These are the power and torque curves for stock and modified,
http://usera.imagecave.com/tdi-rick/Image16.gif
http://usera.imagecave.com/tdi-rick/Image17.gif

http://www.mtqes.com.au/Products.htm
I'm really interested in the 2.8 TGV turbo/manifold, and I know of one already fitted here, but it isn't going yet as the rest of the Rangie isn't finished.

[LRHybrid100]

Originally posted by jase
I have a freind who manufacturers intercoolers, I have been meaning to get something made for the 300 tdi, I did a pricing exercise with him a while ago and they worked out at about $600ea if I could sell 20+
if I get enough intereset I may revist it

Jase

Interested in the Intercoolers at this price.

Pls keep me informed.

LRH

[LRHybrid100]

Originally posted by jase
I would have to confirm pricing but i'm pretty sure I could get you brand new TGV turbo & manifold for less than the LR automotive turbo kit
Jase

Interested to hear the price of this also.

LRH

[hook]

LRHybrid100 Wrote
<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>jase wrote:
I would have to confirm pricing but i'm pretty sure I could get you brand new TGV turbo & manifold for less than the LR automotive turbo kit
Jase


Interested to hear the price of this also.

LRH
jase wrote:
I have a freind who manufacturers intercoolers, I have been meaning to get something made for the 300 tdi, I did a pricing exercise with him a while ago and they worked out at about $600ea if I could sell 20+
if I get enough intereset I may revist it

Jase


Interested in the Intercoolers at this price.

Pls keep me informed.

LRH[/b][/quote]

ME TOO
Trying to find some one who has the same intercoolers like from the UK
Allisport
www.allisport.com/
jeremyjfearn
www.jeremyjfearn.co.uk

[jase]

I once showed my freind a picture 1 of the UK coolers and he almost fell over backwards laughing :?
He claims (& he's the mech engineer who specialises heat exchangers) the design is terrible (the way they do the cross flow thing with the welded tank)
he partly designed a cooler to my dimensions (his way) and run the numbers on it and claimed it to be good for a 2.8ltr (TGV) engine with 1.75 bar boost to up 4000 rpm (up to 300 HP 8) )

he lives 200kms away but i'll give him a call next week & revisit it
Jase

[rick130]

yeah, the pommy intercoolers are pretty horrible designs.
I've heard good things about ARE's intercoolers in Brisbane. They generally use a flow bench to get the inlet, outlet and tanks feeding all of the matrix with minimal pressure drop/disturbance.
Some good tech info here. http://www.are.com.au/feat/techtalk/techtalk.htm

[p38arover]

re the dieselgas - these are the curves for a 300Tdi Defender

http://www.dieselgas.com.au/images/dynacharts/1998_defender_300tdi.jpg

[hook]

I don't know a lot about intercoolers, thats why I have not rushed out and got one yet, but I thourght the pom one had less plubing as the hose where close to OEM 's
One Oz one I looked at had me fitting my own mount and other things, was not stright forward.
Or buy one for sumthing else then spen money modifying it

[disconut]

Originally posted by rick130
DTS/MTQ engine services have an upgrade kit using a Mitsubishi TDO4 turbo.Disconout had one on his old Disco (surprised he hasn't chimed in yet. ?)

Just found this thread! I must have missed it for some reason.

Yes they are very good. Makes a big difference when towing.

Trev.

[nosch]

Hi Trev, would you nowadays buy the same one again or would you decide for the TGV conversion as mentioned above?

[disconut]

Originally posted by nosch
Hi Trev, would you nowadays buy the same one again or would you decide for the TGV conversion as mentioned above?

Considering what I know now:

1.$3500 for turbo upgrade (only if TDi is in good nick and you intend to keep it)

2.TGV was $10k fitted? ( know nothing about them).

3.Put the intended upgrade money towards a TD5.

OK, yes I own a TD5, the turbo upgrade was good but TD5 is better.
So you now have $3.5k to $10K to put with a trade in for a TD5.

Honest opinion, If I had my time again I would Go option 3 for the TD5 style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

Trev.

[nosch]

Sorry Trev, the TGV-option was ment as an upgrade on the tdi engine. Look above at jase´s postings.

TD5 is not my choice actually. Too much electronic stuff on it. Putting a brandnew 2.8 into instead of the tdi is a better way to go in my opinion. Non elctronic also and the cost is the difference between the new engine and what you get for the old 300 tdi. What I found out was that you cannot get a brandnew td5 for the money you have to spend for the brandnew 2.8.

Beside that there won´t be any extra cablework with the 2.8 and - the 2.8 might be stronger than the td5.

Above all we are talking about a car from the day before the day before yesterday (my Range). Why put an engine from yesterday in it, when I did the tdi conversion already. I thought to try to make it a little bit more comfortable for cruising around with a little bit more torque and power.

[disconut]

Hi Norbert,
Now I have a clearer idea of what you are doing. I upgraded my TDi as the TD5 was very new and expensive to me at the time. The turbo upgrade was impressive on paper with similiar figures to the TD5 and did improve the car.
However when I drove the TD5 it was totally different. Power was delivered differently and stronger, it also towed even better than my upgraded TDi.
In your case you are better staying with a Non ECU engine, at least you can work on it yourself. So you are back to deciding on how much to spend.
I can only say the DTS upgrade is good, but have no way of comparing it to the TGV as I have never seen or driven one. Jase is obviously the man there.

Cheers,

Trev.

[jase]

Pricing TGV turbo
I can get (sell) you a brand new new TGV (variable nozzle) turbo, exh manifold and gaskets to suit for $2300 style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif
makes full boost at 1400 RPM 8) (compared to tdi turbo 2??? RPM)
and with variable nozzle keeps producing boost right up to redline 8)

Jase

Taking orders now for next shipment of engines approx x-mas delivery
who wants to buy themself an x-mas presant ??
or just buy the whole TGV engine $10k
and sell your old tdi (good ones get $4k +)

[disconut]

Jase,

Will it fit on a TD5? Love the Variable nozzle bit and the 1400 rpm. style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

Trev.

[jase]

I'm not that familiar with the TD5 (have only driven them never worked on one)
I highly doubt it would bolt straight your on exhaust manifold (would be a big fluke) but as engine capacitys are the same it could be made to fit with some engineering know how
Jase

[jase]

oops forgot
TGV turbo only (no manifold of gaskets) is $2050
Turbo is made by garret so we know it's good
Jase

[nosch]

@jase
hi from berlin. Would it be possible for you to put images of the kit - turbo, manifold gaskets - off engine in here?

@disconut
what happened to your old Tdi and the Mitsubishi turbo kit?


see you, Norbert

[disconut]

@disconut
what happened to your old Tdi and the Mitsubishi turbo kit?

see you, Norbert[/quote]

Its running around west of Toowoomba somewhere on a property.

Trev.

[rick130]

mmmmm, TGV on the Tdi......
looks like I'll have to pull my finger out and generate some extra work.... :wink:

[jase]

I haven't got any photos of a turbo (or "kit") off an engine ATM and don't have a loose turbo to take a photo of style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif
but do have a new engine (have 2.8 TGV in stock) c/w same turbo so can post photos of it on an engine (turbo & manifold the same as "kit")

I will be getting next shipment around x-mas (can get waay quicker air freight if someone is in a hurry but cost BIG $$ style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif )

can someone remind me how to post photos? :?

thanks
jase

[nosch]

jase, its easy (if you speak german :wink: ). go on to this side and try:

http://jeep.cfasp.de/upload/

"durchsuchen" means "search". Klick and you are on your pc´s harddisk. Open the file and you are back on the side above.

Copy the file and paste in the posting

[disconut]

To translate use this page

http://babelfish.altavista.com/

Enter the http page from the top of the screen,
Select the language, bingo you can read it.

Trev.

[disconut]

http://jeep.cfasp.de/upload/31385.jpg

Sie, I can read German.

Trev.

[jase]

sorry I don't speak German
some english instructions would be ggod
someone posted them here a while ago but I can't find them
Jase

[disconut]

Go into google, type "babelfish". Use this program to convert any
language to english. Dead simple. Useful on a number of web sites.

Trev.

[nosch]

jase, try please

[jase]

I found the other (english) instuctions and still can't work it out style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif
(sorry I'm not that great on a PC)
I don't have any web space to load pics to so I tried to make an album here but it just stalled at loading pics ???? style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif
Anyone got web space (or can put here) that I can email them to and do for me?
Thanks heaps
Jase

[rick130]

Jase, go to http://www.imagecave.com, open a free account, and it will let you upload pics to their server. To post on here, just copy the link (they make this easy by having a cut and paste link right beside each photo in HTML, UBB whic is used here, etc.) and paste it here.
Presto, a photo in a thread.
Thats how I loaded the power and torque curves for the DTS/MTQ kit.

[LRHybrid100]

if anyone is interested, I know where there is a Mitsubishi TD04-11C turbo conversion that may be available.

LRH

[Grizzly_Adams]

For what price??

[LRHybrid100]

not sure - but I can check, if you want.

LRH

[Grizzly_Adams]

I'd love to but the handbrake would kill me :-)

Might be of interest to others in the forum though.. perhaps shove it up on forsale section?

[nosch]

I&#96;m very interested (as you know). But how to get it over here for a reasenable price? Any idea anyone?

Keep me in mind.