Warranty about to expire - Clutch rattles, Adapter shaft and door servo

[tact]

My 3yr warranty was running out before end of May, and the vehicle now has ~53,000km on the clock - So with just a few days to spare before the end of May - I booked my MY2013 DCPU in for a bit of warranty work:
1. the oft reported (by others) clutch rattle had set in.
2. wanted the adapter shaft checked as previously (almost) eliminated driveline backlash had returned to a degree
3. right rear door lock actuator failed

Good thing I insisted they check on the adapter shaft...Pictures tell a better story:

[ATH]

I think it's a disgrace that this problem has effected so many vehicles yet LR have never acknowledged there's a problem. I'm in the position of "shall I/shan't I? get this changed although the stealer put in a new transfer box at 96K and I pleaded with the service foreman to make sure it was greased. Did they or didn't they? He didn't seem that interested.
Who knows so it's either get it done at a not inconsiderable 1400 bucks or so.... should I get a new clutch at the same time?
Quite frankly I've reached the stage of (actually I reached it long ago but I'm under the thumb and the Cook wants me to keep it) getting rid of it.
It's a great performer off road but I'm not into hard core crap and have reached the age where comfort and reliability is more important although it's not yet let us down...... but waiting for this major part to let go doesn't do my already bad temper any good at all. :eek:
AlanH.

[karlz]

I have clutch rattle in my 2015 since 8000kms.
Dealer inspected the noise at the 10k service and told me they have to rip it out, so it will be 2 days there.

If I ask them to take pics of the shaft, that my make me feel at ease.

[tact]

I have clutch rattle in my 2015 since 8000kms.
Dealer inspected the noise at the 10k service and told me they have to rip it out, so it will be 2 days there.

If I ask them to take pics of the shaft, that my make me feel at ease.

Pretty much what I did. They were taking the gearbox out for the clutch so insisted they split off the t'fer case and send me pics of the adapter shaft.

[Pickles2]

Having been caught out here, breaking down, away from home, on the side of the road, I can say that this is a REAL issue.
Our 90 had done only a very easy 40K, yet we were "struck down", and it is NOT a pleasant experience.
I would suggest that if ya've got a Defender, ya get this checked out,....surely it must be close to a recall situation,..I suppose we're just lucky ours happened within warranty,....transport back to Dealership, & repairs, out of warranty, would not have been cheap.
So, I say, if ya haven't had ya're intermediate shaft checked, then ya definitely should.
Pickles.

[ATH]

A mate of mine had his go without warning at Balladonia on his way back from the east. 2007 vehicle flat bedded back to Perth. Lucky it was at a road house as him and his wife have done many remote trips on their own.
Haven't heard from him since (wonder if he blames me?) but suspect he's gone back to Nissan as he had a shortie Patrol for over 20 years with no mechanical probs..... but it fell apart with rust! At least that was predictable.
AlanH.

[jimr1]

I think that this is a topic this is going to keep coming up , as more and more owners experience this problem . It obvious this shaft will fail , it's only a question of when ? This mating is poor design from an engineering point of view . Just a mix and match . Could anyone tell me what the cost to replace a shaft , plus labour is once outside warranty ? The thing is there being replaced , but are going to fail after another xx amount of miles . I know they can be adapted to keep the grease in , or oil fed , but the dealers aren't doing this !!.. Jim

[Baytown]

I've got my 2012 110 booked in with The Landy Center Cairns for its 90K service on Friday.
I"ll get them to look into my clutch rattle with a HD replacement (tow a van), and take their advice re the intermediate shaft mod. Hope mine is ok. I'll report back with info on non warranty replacement costs.
My vehicle is running fine, but I'd rather have suspect parts replaced now than them let me down in the Simson etc.
Best wishes all.
Ken

[alien]

I think that this is a topic this is going to keep coming up , as more and more owners experience this problem . It obvious this shaft will fail , it's only a question of when ? This mating is poor design from an engineering point of view . Just a mix and match . Could anyone tell me what the cost to replace a shaft , plus labour is once outside warranty ? The thing is there being replaced , but are going to fail after another xx amount of miles . I know they can be adapted to keep the grease in , or oil fed , but the dealers aren't doing this !!.. Jim
After doing dropping my transfer box with help from 2 fellow members I would suggest any competent mechanic could do it.
It would be a full days work at hourly rates plus parts(input seal, etc.) and oil.
The Ashcroft kit is the way I would go if it needed replacing, they modify factory units and have a good reputation.

http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/mt82-output-shaft-kit.html @$560 plus shipping.
Biggest thing is until it's out you don't know if you need the kit.

[mike_beecham]

Hi All,
I had a rough quote from Les Richmond Automotive in Vic to supply and install the shaft was around $1000. I think this is quite reasonable.

I was recently speaking a LR mechanic who told me that Defenders built AFTER 2011 had that shaft 'cross-drilled' and therefore they are lubricated by the oil in the transfer...? He was adamant....

Cheers,
Michael

[Pickles2]

Hi All,
I had a rough quote from Les Richmond Automotive in Vic to supply and install the shaft was around $1000. I think this is quite reasonable.

I was recently speaking a LR mechanic who told me that Defenders built AFTER 2011 had that shaft 'cross-drilled' and therefore they are lubricated by the oil in the transfer...? He was adamant....

Cheers,
Michael
Ours is My13,.....and it happened?!
Pickles.

[mike_beecham]

I saw that yeah.
I will go back to him for a chat....

I have a 2011 130 so it was on my list of things to do! He had told me not to "worry".

Thanks
Michael

[alien]

Hi All,
I had a rough quote from Les Richmond Automotive in Vic to supply and install the shaft was around $1000. I think this is quite reasonable.

I was recently speaking a LR mechanic who told me that Defenders built AFTER 2011 had that shaft 'cross-drilled' and therefore they are lubricated by the oil in the transfer...? He was adamant....

Cheers,
Michael


I saw that yeah.
I will go back to him for a chat....

I have a 2011 130 so it was on my list of things to do! He had told me not to "worry".

Thanks
Michael
Ours is a late 2011 delivered MY12 and the addaptor was bone dry when I inspected it.

[Lagerfan]

Hi All,
I had a rough quote from Les Richmond Automotive in Vic to supply and install the shaft was around $1000. I think this is quite reasonable.


Hi Mike, was that a factory shaft or the Ashcroft modified one? As I recall Les Richmond is an Oz distributor for Ashcroft.

Either way that seems fair, only wish I had insisted on ours getting done under warranty, wasn't through lack of asking at each service though...

[mike_beecham]

The quote from Les Richmond was for the Ashcroft Kit, yes.

[karlz]

My 2015 100, is currently in the dealers getting the clutch rattle looked at.
They have it for 2 days.
Whilst the gearbox out, I enquired about the shaft issue, I sent them the pics of tact's and also Ashcrofts solution to the problem.

First, I asked them about installing a HD clutch under warranty and an Ashcroft solution, but they said it would not be possible, at least notr under warranty. Recommended I revisit this just before warranty expiration time in about 2 years.
Second, I asked them to take a pic of the adapter shaft to ensure its lubed, and they will do this under warranty no problem.
I will share the pic when I get it, probably tomorrow.

Service manager, a pom, its very knowledable about the defenders.
He thought the Ashcroft solution pretty damm good.
He was adamant there were only a few (the poor few) that had that dry shaft, and that the 2015 model will not have this problem.

[tact]

[...]asked them to take a pic of the adapter shaft to ensure its lubed, and they will do this under warranty no problem.
I will share the pic when I get it, probably tomorrow.

Will love to see that pic, karlz.

Got my vehicle back yesterday. Feels good to drive with new clutch and the adapter shaft nicely done. Very happy.

[DazzaTD5]

The quote from Les Richmond was for the Ashcroft Kit, yes.

You have said "round $1000" .... is that, yes they do it for $1000, or $1100 or....?

The only reason I ask, is I've just quoted a customer for doing the Ashcroft kit, and honestly I quoted $1400 complete. Although I've got a discount from Ashcroft, its still about $770 AU inc, landed here (guesstimate), the rest is labour. So Les Richmond price is bloody good and I wouldnt hesitate to get it done!

Its one of them job that I've always done while doing a clutch and or a transfer case repair/rebuild so most of the labour is covered by the other bigger jobs.

Regards
Daz

[tact]

Got my vehicle back yesterday. Feels good to drive with new clutch and the adapter shaft nicely done. Very happy.


And..... today swapped ECUs back again - now the BAS 170hp/450nm ABv2 tune is back in play.

Smoooooth and powerful - how sweet the 3yr old beastie is all over again.

[karlz]

Got the defender back today after being in the dealers 12 days!

What did they do?

Day 1-2. swapped the rattling clutch but told me there was something "not quite right" after they did that, so they ordered a new Master cylinder, but unfortunately that meant they had the car for the long weekend, it was a friday.
Day 6. Installed the master cylinder, but they said it they weren't happy how the clutch operated. Somehow, despite the new parts, when it was in drive and the clutch depressed, it still had power to the shaft. They ordered a new flywheel, slave cylinder. Gear box has to come out again!
Day 11. Reported to me that the car was ready to be picked up and it drove/operated perfectly.

So I picked it up today, and couldnt believe the difference I felt.
The "clunkiness" is gone, the gears change without any effort, the gear changing feels almost like a "normal" car. Seems I have been driving with a defective feeling clutch since new, but I didnt know it. Glad Landrover Brighton put in the extra effort.

Its probably worth driving another defender at some stage to see how the other one feels compared to your own.

Very happy customer, but in all the excitement I forgot to pick up the photo of the greased adapter shaft, the dealer took the photo for me, said it was already greased when they initially looked at it, they added some more whilst it was out.

[tact]

[...]
So I picked it up today, and couldnt believe the difference I felt.
The "clunkiness" is gone, the gears change without any effort, the gear changing feels almost like a "normal" car. Seems I have been driving with a defective feeling clutch since new, but I didnt know it. Glad Landrover Brighton put in the extra effort.


This is what tipped the balance for me - why I bought my Defender brand new 3yrs ago. Despite the murmers of "unreliability" - I read so many tales like yours (ours) of Land Rover making good if there are any issues. Kudos!

Glad you are happy with your Defender! Same here, 3yrs old, warranty just expired, and after a few fixes (FOC!) its a pleasure to drive still! :)

[DazzaTD5]

Hi All,

I was recently speaking a LR mechanic who told me that Defenders built AFTER 2011 had that shaft 'cross-drilled' and therefore they are lubricated by the oil in the transfer...? He was adamant....

Cheers,
Michael

This isnt correct, the adapter shaft isnt cross drilled on any of them, even if it was it couldnt/doesnt get lubed by the transfer case.

Also I've only seen the very last (say the last 8 months of builds) that are lubed from factory (the tell tale blue grease leak from the bottom of the housing).

Regards
Daz

[Pickles2]

Got the defender back today after being in the dealers 12 days!

What did they do?

Day 1-2. swapped the rattling clutch but told me there was something "not quite right" after they did that, so they ordered a new Master cylinder, but unfortunately that meant they had the car for the long weekend, it was a friday.
Day 6. Installed the master cylinder, but they said it they weren't happy how the clutch operated. Somehow, despite the new parts, when it was in drive and the clutch depressed, it still had power to the shaft. They ordered a new flywheel, slave cylinder. Gear box has to come out again!
Day 11. Reported to me that the car was ready to be picked up and it drove/operated perfectly.

So I picked it up today, and couldnt believe the difference I felt.
The "clunkiness" is gone, the gears change without any effort, the gear changing feels almost like a "normal" car. Seems I have been driving with a defective feeling clutch since new, but I didnt know it. Glad Landrover Brighton put in the extra effort.

Its probably worth driving another defender at some stage to see how the other one feels compared to your own.

Very happy customer, but in all the excitement I forgot to pick up the photo of the greased adapter shaft, the dealer took the photo for me, said it was already greased when they initially looked at it, they added some more whilst it was out.
Well this looks like a BIG plus to Brighton Landrover,....they obviously seem to have "gone the extra mile" for you.
I think I've heard before yes, that the Service Manager (Mike, is that his name?) a Pom (like me) is pretty knowledgeable on Defenders.
I've been past the premises a few times, but never inside,...what's the workshop like?
Pickles.

[karlz]

.
I've been past the premises a few times, but never inside,...what's the workshop like?
Pickles.

The workshop used to be in an old building in New Street Brighton, but the service centre is now in a brand new building in Cheltenham. Workshop is A1.
Yes, I really believe they went the extra mile. I see no reason to go elsewhere.:)

[51mondays]

My my15 defender just had its one year service at lance dixon. I mentioned that the centre dif would sometimes not engage very well when in high range, slipping out now and then. Not something you want happening at the wrong moment. They agreed and the foreman there reckoned he had a fix for it, as I understand it they deepen slightly the groove that the spring-loaded ball sits in to lock the dif (apologies if I've got that bit of futuristic technology wrong).....so anyway they did it and I just picked it up and the lever that operates the dif lock and low/high range now has a much more positive feel. No slip so far. Ok good.

While they had the shaft out they checked the spud/adapter and said it had grease in already and they shoved some more in. (No pics I'm afraid)

So far nice service...no worries. Hope it stays that way. Apart from that little bit of occasional slip with the centre dif (never happened in low range) and the natural clunking of a bitsy drive train, I love it and smooth sailing so far.

[malsgoing130]

Funny that about the hi Lo engagement. My 2011 started doing this, finding it hard to actually select the ratio. I just had the transfer rebuilt and the expert noted that the dog gear was in a crappy state, he said he has seen many of the newer defenders with this issue, seems as though they were not fabricating them 100% or switched to a cheaper parts supplier.

[DazzaTD5]

Re engagement of hi/low, and or diff lock in/out...

Later transfer cases as used in the Defender TDCi the retaining screw has a head on it and the depth cant be adjusted, as in the amount of tension on the spring that pushes on the ball which engages into the detent on the selector shaft. Early transfer cases used a grub screw so the amount of tension can be adjusted.

you can replace the "headed" screw with a grub screw and adjust the depth to create more tension on the spring/ball, thus giving a more positive feel.

When shifting from hi/low, diff lock in/out, a good habit is to hold the shifter in place while moving forward slightly until positive engagement is achieved.

When you move the selector for either hi/low or diff lock in/out, you are actually only moving the selector shaft which is spring loaded against the selector fork, once there is some rotational movement and the dog collar (collar with straight cut teeth) teeth align they move into engagement.

Having too much forward (or reverse) movement, as in going to fast while shifting will cause a serve clunk and this is where damage to the "dog gears" (on the collar) occurs.

Driving a Defender (even the TDCi) is like driving an old machine, move, shift, throttle, steer gently and smoothly and expect things not to happen instantly, unlike pressing a "4WD" button on the dash of a Japanese built vehicle.

Regards
Daz