Removing rear seats 110 Roadworthy issue

[Baytown]

Hi fellas.
I removed my rear passenger seats, turning my 110 from a 5 seat to a 2 seat vehicle in QLD. I want the space for storage vs people as its just me.
To legally do this, you need an Engineers certificate and compliance plate fitted ($200) if not, you will have both rego, and insurance issues.
You also need to submit to QLD Transport, a vehicle modification document (10A I think) available from QLD Transport, and don't forget to tell your insurer.
You must replace al bolts where any penetration of the floor has occurred, and remove the rear seat belts and block the holes , ie bolts back in or silastic the hole up believe it or not.
This subject has been discussed here before, but I thought someone may make use of this definitive requirement for QLD registered vehicles.
Best wishes all.
Ken

[Mick_Marsh]

Where did you get this information from?
Do you have a link to the relevant legislation on a Queensland government website?

[Aaron IIA]

Your cost of registration will also go up, as you have changed from a passenger vehicle to a commercial vehicle.

Aaron

[Mick_Marsh]

I always wonder about vehicles such as the Ford Territory. When I fold the rear seats down, do I have to remove the seat belts, block up the holes and get an engineering report because it is now a two seater? What happens at the end of the day when I convert it back to a five seater? Do I need another engineers report even though the first one has not yet been recieved by the registration authorities?
I think a little common sense is needed. Something that seems to be unpopular in recent times.

[Aaron IIA]

As far as I know, you can temporarily remove the third row car seats, without updating the official seating capacity, provided that this is a temporary measure.

https://www.sa.gov.au/topics/transport-travel-and-motoring/motoring/vehicles-and-registration/vehicle-standards-and-modifications/seats-and-seat-belts

Aaron

[Homestar]

I've never been able to fathom the reasons behind this. Just removing the bolts that hold the seat and seat belts requires engineering? What is the actual reason behind this?

I had no seat in the back of the RRC for years without issue - there's only 2 x 13mm bolts holds it in.

[Aaron IIA]

The engineering would be to prove that you have removed the seats properly, and to provide the relevant government department with the evidence needed to update the vehicle registration records.

Aaron

[XDrive]

The requirements as set out are only necessary if this is a permanent removal. Temporally removing of the rear seats can be undertaken without any notification provided the seats can be removed via bolts or clamps, with no tools or limited tools and replaced the same way.

Do not remove the seat belts, if you wish this to be temporary, as this then indicates that the removal is more permanent. Temporary removal has no time limit specified but rather the fact that it is a simple process to remove and refit.

As stated earlier, permanent removal, that is, with all the seat belt fixings removed, has to have an engineers certificate as well as, in some cases a change to the status of the vehicle from passenger to commercial, which would also require notification to your insurer.

Why you would go to all this trouble just to remove the seat belt fixings would seem to be more work than necessary. However, I am sure you have a reason for going down this path.

Regards

XDrive

[scarry]

As far as I know, you can temporarily remove the third row car seats, without updating the official seating capacity, provided that this is a temporary measure.

https://www.sa.gov.au/topics/transport-travel-and-motoring/motoring/vehicles-and-registration/vehicle-standards-and-modifications/seats-and-seat-belts

Aaron

The OP is talking Qld rules,and second row seats,not third.

[Aaron IIA]

And I was pointing out which seats can be removed without approval. The link that I provided also addresses the removal of other seats, including second row seats. I live in S.A., so posted the relevant information for S.A. I will leave it to a resident of Qld. to provide a similiar link regarding the relevant information for Qld.

Aaron

[Baytown]

Re looking up QLD regulations, I'm happy with the advice provided by QLD Transport with it being confirmed by my engineer. (A bloody nice bloke and not some one who would rip you off re unnecessary inspections.)
Re temporarary removal X Drive, I was not advised of this option, and would be uncomfortable without advice from QLD Transport and the relevant confirmatory document. I plan to fit a fridge mounting frame in the passenger area, so would also need to be able to easily remove that I suppose.
My engineer advised that the Transport inspectors would ticket me if I didn't have the relevant modification plate re no rear passenger seats. No mention of temporary removal caveats.
As all this has a direct effect on Insurance cover, I'm happy to have the compliance plate. He also pointed out that my compliance plate for my two Recaros in the front, did not cover my long range tank, so he included this in today's comlience documentation.
So effectively, for QLD owners in particular, but of relevance to all, might want to check your long range tank mod for compliance as well.
Best wishes all.
Ken

[XDrive]

I looked up the relevant regulation for Queensland VSI L 5.1 which states the following

Regards

XDrive

Vehicle Standards Instruction (Light Vehicle 5.1)
Permanent and Temporary Removal of Seats from Light Motor Vehicles Released July 2005
Updated May 2014
The Department of Transport and Main Roads (TMR) regularly receives questions from vehicle owners and modifiers about the requirements for permanent and temporary changes to the seating capacity of a vehicle. If a change is classed as permanent, it is a modification and must be certified by an Approved Person. However, if the seating is only changed for a short period, it may be classed as temporary and is not classed as a modification. But how do you know what is temporary and permanent?
The key question that needs to be answered when assessing the removal of seats is whether the vehicle is permanently modified (the seats are removed for an indefinite period or are not expected to be refitted) or has it just been reconfigured in accordance with the manufacturers various options.
? For vehicles fitted with quick release seating attachments as original equipment, temporary removal of the seats is acceptable. A Modification Plate does not need to be fitted. This is commonly the case for four wheel drives and people movers.
? For vehicles fitted with bolt in seating structures, no approval by an Approved Person is necessary for the temporary removal of seats, provided the category of the vehicle does not change as a result of the seating reduction.
? For vehicles with the seating structures permanently removed, the modification must be approved by an AP and a Modification Plate must be fitted for the reduction in seating capacity.
Note: If the modification is permanent, any change in vehicle category must also be taken into consideration prior to the fitting of the Modification Plate.
Certificate of Inspection or Safety Certification Inspection
At the time of a Safety Certificate inspection, the vehicle must be returned to the manufacturer's original seating configuration or have a Modification Plate fitted for the seating configuration as presented.
Further Information
Vehicle Operators seeking technical advice on vehicle modifications should contact an Approved Person for advice. For contact details of Approved Persons in your area, please contact the Department of Transport and Main Roads on 13 23 80. Should an Approved Person require further assistance, they should contact Vehicle Standards and Modification Advice.

[jx2mad]

Does that mean that anyone with an 8 seat people mover cannot legally remove the two rear seats and make it into a camper unit?

[Mick_Marsh]

I looked up the relevant regulation for Queensland VSI L 5.1 which states the following

Regards

XDrive

Vehicle Standards Instruction (Light Vehicle 5.1)
Permanent and Temporary Removal of Seats from Light Motor Vehicles Released July 2005
Updated May 2014
Thanks. That clarifies your earlier post. Your advice in that earlier post was for a specific set of circumstances. Not applicable to all.

How often are Safety Certificate Inspections required?

[Baytown]

Thanks for the info X Drive.
Bugger, looks like I may have been able to save $200, but I was permanently removing the seats as I've no need of them, and it give me more storage space (also have my parrot in the back in his cage along side my dog when touring).
Oh well, at least I'm now fully covered.
Thats now the definitive info for QLD registered vehicles.
Good on you.
Ken

[p38arover]

So, if one left the seatbelts in place but only removed the seats, would it be classed as temporary with no compliance plate required?

That's what I did with my P38A when I fitted the fridge. With the L322, I've just folded the seat up and left it in.

[Mick_Marsh]

So, if one left the seatbelts in place but only removed the seats, would it be classed as temporary with no modification plate required?

That's what I did with my P38A when I fitted the fridge. With the L322, I've just folded the seat up and left it in.
That is the way I read it.

[87County]

Ah... rulemakers and rulekeepers ....

I guess if I was ever asked where the back seat our of my 110 was (and I never have been even for an annual pink slip),

it would be at the upholsterers for recovering :D

[Baytown]

I could have used excuses as well, but I did the legal thing due to the risk of not being insured if I was involved in a major accident. That's the only reason.
Ken

[Mick_Marsh]

I could have used excuses as well, but I did the legal thing due to the risk of not being insured if I was involved in a major accident. That's the only reason.
Ken
As has been shown, it is also legal to temporarily remove the seats, retaining the seat belts and not get a modification plate fitted.

[Baytown]

And goes to show that you probably should research the advice given by QLD Transport. Incorrect advice cost me $200, but at least I retain my Private vehicle registration. I checked on this and it doesn't have to have Commercial registration just because of only being a 2 seater.
Best wishes all.
Ken