Hill Climb Comparison

[LRD414]

The other day we had a look at Janowen Hills, a camping/4WD place near Brisbane.
Last thing before leaving was this small hill climb, which was steeper than it looks.
It's an interesting comparison, I make harder work of it (first vehicle in video).
https://youtu.be/ZylNtWfhKQM

The differences between vehicles are (EDIT: both in rock crawl):

Me
B'stone D697 265/60/R18 (30.5")
30psi and half worn

James
BFG KO2 265/65/R18 (31.5")
25-26psi and maybe 25% worn (guess)
Equipped with e-diff

Not sure what makes the most difference to the composure? It certainly felt more scrabbly than it looks & James had minimal slipping.

I suspect it's mainly the tyre pressure combined with less tread on the D697s.
And probably I needed to back off just slightly when wheel spin started, which seemed to work quite well on another scrabbly/rocky pinch that didn't get filmed.
It is quite a fine line to get the best throttle position for maximum control.

Cheers,
Scott

[BobD]

Were you both in rock crawl mode?

[LRD414]

Were you both in rock crawl mode?
Yep, rock crawl. Good point, will add to summary.

[sheerluck]

If all else was equal (TR mode chosen) I would say tyre pressure and the rear e-diff. James's rear end was definitely less scrabbly than yours.

Was an interesting watch though!

[~Rich~]

Almost twins!

[Tombie]

Slightly different front end line too.
If you'd aired down it would have been closer.

[Graeme]

Your rears span independently and your vehicle lost progress at the same time. The lack of e-diff is quite obvious.

[sctsprin]

:) So it maybe was worth the months of searching for an e-diff

[LRD414]

Slightly different front end line too.
If you'd aired down it would have been closer.


Your rears span independently and your vehicle lost progress at the same time. The lack of e-diff is quite obvious.


So it maybe was worth the months of searching for an e-diff
Yes I reckon it was but I also agree with Tombie that the tyre pressure didn't give mine an equal chance.
Obviously more testing is in order. :BigThumb:

Scott

[sctsprin]

Nah, surely it's the superior drivers skill at the wheel, haaaa I wish :p

[LandyAndy]

Im not sure that I would call the E-diff the difference.
Im going with the longer and softer tyre giving the extra traction.
I would like to have seen a second run by Scott at the lower tyre pressure.
Andrew

[Meken]

Slightly different line - big difference in the surface the tyre was on. Pressures made a big difference. Interesting thing Gordon notes is when you get a bit of wheel spin don't back off but give it a bit more to make the terrain response activate the traction control.

[LandyAndy]

Driver no2 was a bit more gentle too.
Aaron,I think those 265/65 look a much better size than the 285/60 you are considering.
Andrew

[sctsprin]

We did an easier climb earlier in the day and I had around 30psi (34psi hot from highway driving) Scott got up it, and I didn't without a roll back and more welly with lots of wheel spin
So I let my still warm tyres down to 28psi about 1/2 hour later for the next technical downhill where we had lots of rocks to climb over and around with handheld uhf guidance

Scott did a superb job guiding me, not a mark on my car

I didn't so well, that's how he got the scratch on his rim

Anyway low pressure certainly seems to have helped as you'd expect

[Ben_Vapid]

I was on steep rocks last weekend and was lazy at the start and hasn't aired down. After taking about 8 psi out of the tyres I noticed a real difference in grip and just stickiness, even a small amount has such an impact.

[LandyAndy]

I just watched the video again after seeing the scratched rim.Made me cringe thinking how well the stock tyres would have been open to carnage.ONYA JLR!!!!
Andrew

[sctsprin]

A couple more vids of the bump we climbed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Kcv6jSwiPo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfXSYdUfeC0

[LRD414]

.... Gordon notes is when you get a bit of wheel spin don't back off but give it a bit more to make the terrain response activate the traction control.
Yes but gently and also with some modulation up & down in revs, as well as a little side-to-side with steering wheel.
I was doing all that but in the thick of it probably not as gently as would be ideal.

.... After taking about 8 psi out of the tyres I noticed a real difference in grip and just stickiness, even a small amount has such an impact.
Totally agree Ben and it's also different from tyre to tyre.
I reckon 26-27 would have been ideal for mine for where we were.

The rim damage was not on this hill but earlier in a tight rocky gully on a large boulder/rock shelf.
Not this specific spot but same gully:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/06/408.jpg
You were basically needing to check all wheels almost constantly for the next obstacle.

Cheers,
Scott

[sctsprin]

I do wonder if 285 width would have protected our rims just a tad more? The 265/65 KO2 is very straight walled
Timelapse video of that rocky descent uploading to youtube now

[LandyAndy]

I do wonder if 285 width would have protected our rims just a tad more? The 265/65 KO2 is very straight walled
Timelapse video of that rocky descent uploading to youtube now

Unsure,a bulge in the sidewall is a recipe for a cut and destroyed tyre.
Andrew

[LandyAndy]

A couple more vids of the bump we climbed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Kcv6jSwiPo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfXSYdUfeC0

No speech detected:p:p:p:p:p:p:p:p
I would have replied with "Like yeah baby":cool::cool::cool::cool::cool::cool:
Andrew

[sctsprin]

Here's a vid of the rocky descent


https://youtu.be/jTcktkDwFwY

[sctsprin]

True true


Unsure,a bulge in the sidewall is a recipe for a cut and destroyed tyre.
Andrew

[Disco-tastic]

I reckon it was the extra weight of that huge awning giving extra traction to the left side of james' car :p

That's the only difference i could see between the two!

Cheers

Dan

[LRD414]

Here's a vid of the rocky descent
That guy moves fast.
How many times sped up is that?

[sctsprin]

40x :D

[Tombie]

Here's a vid of the rocky descent
https://youtu.be/jTcktkDwFwY


Great vid!

You used a spotter for that? [emoji48] that's a perfect trail...

[rocmic]

For me, I think pressures make the biggest difference on this one. While James does have the edif, it only will cut in when you get horrible traction. I think that if you had been running the same pressures as James (and same line, much more difficult than tyre pressure), you would have come through nearly the same
Cheers
Mike

[ozscott]

I am reasonably confident my group did that climb a few weeks ago when camped out there. 3 D2 v8" and a d3 with 10 per cent bigger than stock 18"s and edif. We all did it easily but line is everything. I usually climb in 2 or 3rd low and just let the torque do the work. There is a video that shows mine and a mates D2 on the same line on a steep ascent - he is scrabbling and mine isn't_ his is manual too and was in first low so up in power range and not using low torque. Cheers

[Graeme]

While James does have the edif, it only will cut in when you get horrible traction.My experience with the D4's e-diff is the opposite, with the e-diff operating without any sound of TC activating and no loss of progress. My RRV chatters the rear brakes often with momentary reduced progress.

[sheerluck]

Here's a vid of the rocky descent
https://youtu.be/jTcktkDwFwY

Alright, which one of you is it that looks like Charlie Chaplin when you walk :p

[sctsprin]

The eDiff symbol is permanently ON in rock crawl, I'm assuming that means it's always atleast partially locked?

We had to use off-road + llams full height to clear most of the rocks on that descent and even then we scraped underneath a few times, the rocks were pretty big and we had to plan the turns due to how narrow the track was between some of the big outcrops. I'm sure more experienced drivers wouldn't need a spotter, but we didn't want to break anything and it was a good learning experience for both of us

Hell of a fun day, but does make you appreciate having the missus along for navigation, feeding and camera duties, it really is a bit harder by yourself

[sctsprin]

He he that's a good one, hadn't thought of it, that's Scott


Alright, which one of you is it that looks like Charlie Chaplin when you walk :p

[sctsprin]

It's one of the tracks near the campgrounds by the creek, there's some very short crazy climbs next to it, it's near #60 track


I am reasonably confident my group did that climb a few weeks ago when camped out there. 3 D2 v8" and a d3 with 10 per cent bigger than stock 18"s and edif. We all did it easily but line is everything. I usually climb in 2 or 3rd low and just let the torque do the work. There is a video that shows mine and a mates D2 on the same line on a steep ascent - he is scrabbling and mine isn't_ his is manual too and was in first low so up in power range and not using low torque. Cheers

[sctsprin]

I certainly didn't feel the brakes or eDiff cut in all day, making me thinks it's behaving as I'd expect with near instantaneous smooth adjustment of the eDiff as required, I assume rock crawl sets a much higher minimum eDiff lockup? Say 30% ?


My experience with the D4's e-diff is the opposite, with the e-diff operating without any sound of TC activating and no loss of progress. My RRV chatters the rear brakes often with momentary reduced progress.

[Disco-tastic]

I certainly didn't feel the brakes or eDiff cut in all day, making me thinks it's behaving as I'd expect with near instantaneous smooth adjustment of the eDiff as required, I assume rock crawl sets a much higher minimum eDiff lockup? Say 30% ?

Watching it again you can see as the front left tyre of each car goes up onto the rock, scotts rear left loses traction and he stops, while yours kicks dirt from both rear wheels. When you stop and start again, both rear wheels keep traction, while scotts rear left (EDIT: its the right) scrabbles until the brakes grab it, and he kicks a little to the left.

I reckon its a pretty good sign that the e-diff is doing its thing :)

It would be interesting, james, if you did the same track twice, but disabled the ediff via the ccf (if you can do that). Then you'd know how much work the ediff does.

Cheers

Dan

[sctsprin]

Interesting Idea Dan, but I'm not rewriting my CCF in the middle of nowhere ��

[Disco-tastic]

Aww wheres your sense of adventure!? :p

Cheers

Dan

[sheerluck]

No need to change the CCF, just cut the blue wire!

Or is it the red one?:confused:

[Grentarc]

While James does have the edif, it only will cut in when you get horrible traction.
When in rock crawl, the e-diff is preloaded before any slippage occurs.

[Edit - bit late to the party on this on - having a toddler all to myself means it takes over an hour to type one sentence!]

[sctsprin]

I know the feeling 😉
[
QUOTE=Grentarc;2547215]When in rock crawl, the e-diff is preloaded before any slippage occurs.

[Edit - bit late to the party on this on - having a toddler all to myself means it takes over an hour to type one sentence!][/QUOTE]

[Tombie]

When in rock crawl, the e-diff is preloaded before any slippage occurs.

[Edit - bit late to the party on this on - having a toddler all to myself means it takes over an hour to type one sentence!]



A distant memory for us here but I remember when the boys were toddlers - about 18 years ago!

[ozscott]

I recall like it was... 17 years ago (well 13 for my youngest). Great fun... Then later comes the fun of having them as mates who can not only share a good laugh round the camp fire but can load and unload a 4wd, boat, kayak... Cheers