LLAMS Operation

[laughto]

I had LLAMS installed prior to departing on our current Central Australia trip. Silly me, should have checked all functionality prior to leaving. My understanding is that you can hold in offroad mode above 50kph by turning control to the first stop clockwise and raising the car. Car raises ok, but when 50 is reached, drops down to normal height (with usual warnings prior to hitting 50).

Am i missing something?

[LRD414]

Don't raise to Offroad. Llams 2nd stop alone is equivalent to Offroad. And Llams 1st stop alone is in between Normal and Offroad.

Scott

[LRD414]

I think of Llams as an offset to whatever normal mode I'm in, either up or down. So for whatever normal mode you are in the usual restrictions apply, eg the 50km/h limit for Offroad.

Scott

[Tombie]

You are missing something..

Llams at Red Led is the equivalent of Offroad mode and is as high as you'll get above 50km/h.

For most 50km/h and above travel, unless the crown is very high compared to wheel ruts then Amber setting (+30mm) is usually more than enough to maintain handling and avoid bumps.

[Graeme]

On all except the very early versions that didn't get updated with the "recovery" option, super-extended height is available whilst in normal height mode (recovery/extra high) and therefore without any speed-related lowering but strongly discouraged at speeds much above walking pace.

[Graeme]

Car raises ok, but when 50 is reached, drops down to normal height (with usual warnings prior to hitting 50).You used +30mm above 50 kph rather than normal height so had the necessary height increase for improved comfort without too much height anyway.

[DrOsteo]

So, travelling on llams green (-30mm) on a winding blacktop. Will the outside bags on a bend still stiffen as they will in normal height (as ecu won't know that car is lowered, ie. bags will have less pressure - need greater quantity of air to stiffen? )

[Graeme]

No suspension height adjustments are made by the suspension ecu whilst under any significant acceleration/deceleration including cornering.

[Tombie]

So, travelling on llams green (-30mm) on a winding blacktop. Will the outside bags on a bend still stiffen as they will in normal height (as ecu won't know that car is lowered, ie. bags will have less pressure - need greater quantity of air to stiffen? )


The bags don't stiffen... In normal mode the damper controls the roll - and it's no different at -20mm

I can't run -30 as it hits the bump stops in edit mode and raises.

[LRD414]

The bags don't stiffen... In normal mode the damper controls the roll - and it's no different at -20mm.

Tombie, do you mean control is no different & ride no different? I find the ride slightly firmer when on -20 Llams. Quite good on twisty bitumen.

Haven't tried any lower than that, which I think is the special mode Extra Low.

Scott

[laughto]

You are missing something..

Llams at Red Led is the equivalent of Offroad mode and is as high as you'll get above 50km/h.

Ok, so if car is in normal mode and I switch to Red on the LLAMS, the car should raise to Off Road mode with no other interaction from me?

Sent from my SM-G920I using AULRO mobile app

[Graeme]

Correct. It's off-road height but the suspension ecu is still in normal mode so rock crawl will auto-select off-road mode (unless a trailer is detected attached) and raise the vehicle about another 40mm.

[Mungus]

Tombie, do you mean control is no different & ride no different? I find the ride slightly firmer when on -20 Llams. Quite good on twisty bitumen.

Haven't tried any lower than that, which I think is the special mode Extra Low.

Scott



Scott, I agree it seems stiffer and quite good on twisty roads at -20, but I think it may be more related to lower center of gravity and possibly this may also have some effect on the damper due to angle of force.

[Grentarc]

Scott, I agree it seems stiffer and quite good on twisty roads at -20, but I think it may be more related to lower center of gravity and possibly this may also have some effect on the damper due to angle of force.

The way LR air springs are designed is that the lower the ride height, the softer the spring, and the higher the ride height, the firmer the spring. on a street around the corner from my house, the bitumen has been patched numerous times, so I put my Llams into low and the D4 rides the patched road much better. The road is not so bad that you hit bump stops.
Kimberly Kampers have designed their air springs in the opposite way to LR so that when you lower their vans/trailers the suspension is firmer.

[Graeme]

Lowering by 20mm lowers the suspension roll centre which IMO reduces body roll more than the slight reduction in CoG does, but together have quite an impact. It also makes wheel camber slightly more positive/less negative which improves steering response.

[letherm]

The way LR air springs are designed is that the lower the ride height, the softer the spring, and the higher the ride height, the firmer the spring. on a street around the corner from my house, the bitumen has been patched numerous times, so I put my Llams into low and the D4 rides the patched road much better. The road is not so bad that you hit bump stops.
Kimberly Kampers have designed their air springs in the opposite way to LR so that when you lower their vans/trailers the suspension is firmer.

My experience is that it feels bouncier at access height. Maybe it is softer ??? I usually raise to off road height to go over speed humps to ease the bump for my wife as she has severe back pain as it seems softer than normal height. I'm confused.:p:p:p:p

Martin

[DrOsteo]

So in the same note, does the load in the car affect the height and or stiffness of the suspension?

[shanegtr]

My experience is that it feels bouncier at access height.
I think thats because at that height theres not much movement until the bump stops, so any up movement of the suspension feels quiet harsh - at least thats what it feels like to me.

[jonesfam]

So in the same note, does the load in the car affect the height and or stiffness of the suspension?

As the D3/4 is self leveling, so would increase the air in the springs if the weight is increased, you would have to think the suspension would be stiffer.
That said, the extra load on the more aired up springs might make the car feel the same?

BTW, I was under the impression that it was the rear of the car that did all the self leveling, but a few weeks ago I pulled up to take a wiz, left the car running & the front of the car lowered?

Strange machines these D3/4's. Seem to have a mind of their own & it's not always on this planet.

Jonesfam

[LRD414]

The way LR air springs are designed is that the lower the ride height, the softer the spring, and the higher the ride height, the firmer the spring. on a street around the corner from my house, the bitumen has been patched numerous times, so I put my Llams into low and the D4 rides the patched road much better. The road is not so bad that you hit bump stops.
Kimberly Kampers have designed their air springs in the opposite way to LR so that when you lower their vans/trailers the suspension is firmer.
I agree with everyone regarding the improved ride at Llams-20, it seems better in terms of less body roll as Graeme said.
But I can't quite correlate this idea of lower height/softer spring to the ride when in Access height, for example in a carpark with speed bumps.
The ride in Access, which is lower than Llams-20, is bumpy and harsh (only experienced at slow speeds).

For a given load, a lower spring has lower pressure and minimal volume change, so theoretically a lower spring rate and more compliance.
But this doesn't take into account the shock absorber behavior.

So if the spring is softer but ride firmer as the level gets lower, what is going on? Is the bounce in Access a less-damped softer spring?

Cheers,
Scott

[Grentarc]

As the D3/4 is self leveling, so would increase the air in the springs if the weight is increased, you would have to think the suspension would be stiffer.
That said, the extra load on the more aired up springs might make the car feel the same?

BTW, I was under the impression that it was the rear of the car that did all the self leveling, but a few weeks ago I pulled up to take a wiz, left the car running & the front of the car lowered?

Strange machines these D3/4's. Seem to have a mind of their own & it's not always on this planet.

Jonesfam

The way the air springs work is not like the air bag helpers for coil springs where higher pressure equals stiffer spring - the air springs have a variable diameter piston inside which determines spring rate at any given height. The spring rate of an air spring only changes when the volume of air changes, not the pressure - ie. with car unloaded the pressure in the airbag stays the same, but volume increases to raise vehicle to offroad height. Pressure increases when you load up the vehicle up and it counteracts the extra weight to return to normal height.

And yes, the D3/D4 is 4 corner air suspension and levels each corner, whereas the D2 had only rear leveling capability on the 7 seat models.

[Graeme]

I found the ride softer when lower but the distance to the bump-stops is less and therefore the ride can easily be considerably worse. I also found that the shocks are quite soft at slow shock movement speeds hence they didn't noticeable stiffen the lowered ride if driven slowly over roughish patches but soon stiffened on higher bumps that cause the shock piston to move faster. This is why I moved to the L322 with CVDs where shock travel speed is not necessarily tied to firmness.

[Grentarc]

Yes, the only time I use the Llams low setting for comfort is on rough bitumen, traveling at 30-50 km/h. For fast dirt/gravel roads I use the medium (+30) as the suspension needs to have longer travel. I would not even try speed bumps at anything lower than normal heght

[LRD414]

Yes, the only time I use the Llams low setting for comfort is on rough bitumen, traveling at 30-50 km/h. For fast dirt/gravel roads I use the medium (+30) as the suspension needs to have longer travel. I would not even try speed bumps at anything lower than normal heght

Agree with all that. Access height only used over speed bumps in undercover carparks.

Scott

[Grentarc]

Access height only used over speed bumps in undercover carparks.
We are lucky in Wagga that our undercover car parks are able to cater for a D4 in normal height.

[laughto]

Agree with all that. Access height only used over speed bumps in undercover carparks.

Scott

And for getting elderly in-laws into and out of the car. Few brownie points for this.

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[Tombie]

You lot are lucky!!! Many Adelaide parks I wouldn't contemplate going in at all... Llams -20 and lowered as well.

[Narangga]

You lot are lucky!!! Many Adelaide parks I wouldn't contemplate going in at all... Llams -20 and lowered as well.

Thanks for the warning. Defender was a no-go but I thought D3 may have been alright when we are down at Christmas.

Oh well it was made to enjoy the great outdoors :p

[Tombie]

There's a great open car park on North Tce at Eyres House opposite the hospital.