The fatal blow cycling wont recover from

[bob10]

The fatal blow cycling won't recover from | The New Daily (http://thenewdaily.com.au/sport/2016/07/01/what-is-mechanical-doping/)

[Slunnie]

I don't think there has been evidence to support the reality of this article. I'm not aware of anyone that has been caught in pro-cycling with mechanical doping.

That said, I suspect there is still performance enhancing drugs and/or medical techniques going on.

[bob10]

Real enough. Respectfully suggest you think again.

Everything you need to know about the motorised doping scandal - Cycling Weekly (http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/cycling-weekly/everything-you-need-to-know-about-the-motorised-doping-scandal-209635)

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=mechanical+doping+cycling&rlz=1C1AVSE_enAU454AU613&espv=2&biw=1366&bih=667&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwi-wYrEntTNAhXJupQKHV2oCy0QsAQIGg&dpr=1

[Slunnie]

Unlike drugs, these are easy to detect with a quick scan away from the bike and pro riders know they will go down in a big way if they use them. I doubt very much that this with be anything near the issue that drugs are.

[bob10]

I think you are in denial. You probably were conned by Armstrong, like most of the World. This is not a new development. Been around for a while. FDJ coach, Frederick Grappe, says it could be worse than traditional doping. He would know.

UCI promises tough response to motorised doping scandal | Reuters (http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-cycling-cheating-motor-idUKKCN0VA2ME)

[Homestar]

Definitely has been pro cyclists caught mechanical doping, your wearing rose coloured glasses...

There's a good clip somewhere I'll see if I can find when I'm back in front of my computer that has 2 ex pros talking about - and using - the types of bikes that are being used. Both saying this is what is common in the tour now.

[Slunnie]

I don't think so. Watch every lead bike get scanned at the end of each event at TdF. I think you both need to remove your technology ignorant and jaded glasses (If we really must degrade ourselves, break the forum rules and play the man and not the subject), with this one, unlike drugs and the UCI & WADA's own flawed drug regulations the UCI do have the ability to easily detect mechanical doping.

[bee utey]

Wow! The technology of lithium batteries must have done a quantum leap!! Next thing we'll be able to buy an electric Deafener capable of crossing the Simpson on a single charge!!!

BTW I'm idly watching Day 1 of Le Tour on SBS, I'm sure they're all running a little hidden bamix motor, they're sooo fast!!!
[bigrolf]

[Mick_Marsh]

Wow! The technology of lithium batteries must have done a quantum leap!! Next thing we'll be able to buy an electric Deafener capable of crossing the Simpson on a single charge!!!
All you need to do is put a wind generator in the roof. Charges the batteries as you drive.

[bee utey]

All you need to do is put a wind generator in the roof. Charges the batteries as you drive.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/07/1061.jpg
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[Mick_Marsh]

No.

No beard.

More like a cross between this:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/07/1059.jpg
and this https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/07/1060.jpg

[bob10]

I don't think so. Watch every lead bike get scanned at the end of each event at TdF. I think you both need to remove your technology ignorant and jaded glasses (If we really must degrade ourselves, break the forum rules and play the man and not the subject), with this one, unlike drugs and the UCI & WADA's own flawed drug regulations the UCI do have the ability to easily detect mechanical doping.

The man who invented this says that it has been going on since 1998. It has been spoken about since 2010, and testing only started in 2015. The authorities are playing catch up, it took a Parisian newspaper to prove mechanical doping was being carried out. Mechanical doping is getting more sophisticated, much the same as drug doping has in the past. Yes, the authorities are testing now, but are are they keeping up with the technology? You claim the UCI have the ability to detect, and they indeed claim that. What method is used in Australia to detect mechanical doping? Could you please enlighten us .

[bob10]

Wow! The technology of lithium batteries must have done a quantum leap!! Next thing we'll be able to buy an electric Deafener capable of crossing the Simpson on a single charge!!!

BTW I'm idly watching Day 1 of Le Tour on SBS, I'm sure they're all running a little hidden bamix motor, they're sooo fast!!!
[bigrolf]

Not quite as simplistic as that.

Mechanical doping used in Strade Bianche and Coppi e Bartali, claims investigation | Cyclingnews.com (http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/mechanical-doping-used-in-strade-bianche-and-coppi-e-bartali-claims-investigation/)

[bob10]

My apologies, it was a French TV show, and an Italian newspaper. I tracked it down, sorry about the English sub-titles, the translation has been murdered.

https://youtu.be/15kIyBhsX8o

[p38arover]

The fatal blow cycling wont recover from

Sigh! The standard of journalism today! Surely it should be "The fatal blow from which cycling won't recover"?

[trog]

No matter we will still record and watch each highlights show and enjoy the spectacle.

[Slunnie]

No matter we will still record and watch each highlights show and enjoy the spectacle.

Absolutely! Just about every man and his dog will stay up until 2 in the morning, watch TdF and turn up for work again with eyes half stuck shut. :D

[Slunnie]

The man who invented this says that it has been going on since 1998. It has been spoken about since 2010, and testing only started in 2015. The authorities are playing catch up, it took a Parisian newspaper to prove mechanical doping was being carried out. Mechanical doping is getting more sophisticated, much the same as drug doping has in the past. Yes, the authorities are testing now, but are are they keeping up with the technology? You claim the UCI have the ability to detect, and they indeed claim that. What method is used in Australia to detect mechanical doping? Could you please enlighten us .

This blew up with some girl in the MTB racing or Cross-triathlon or something and it's publicity has been great - it's making people get off their asses and do something. This isn't comparable to drugs at all, they way they were testing for drugs like EPO and testosterone was flawed from the start as they were testing to a threshold, now they use a biological passport to allow for individual differences which threshold doesn't but even within Australia the governing bodies know how to administer via micro dosing etc in a way that the testing protocols doesn't pick up. Mechanical doping is a whole different ball game. There are no thresholds etc. It's either there or it isn't. It can be picked up via heat, scans, inspections and metal detection etc. Its also not just motors in the seat tube that work on the crank, there are ways also of making the rear wheel drive. But you speak about Australia and in my last 2 years of feedback to ASADA I slammed them. The reality is that nobody is being picked up because nobody is being tested and nothing is being checked. If you see their list of banned athletes it is pretty obvious that they're not testing, of all of the people that I compete with/against I don't know of a single person that has been tested from the winner through to last place - I suspect it is more like tip offs which they have to respond to. Many people in my sport believe that athletes who have tested positive mysteriously spend 12months out with an "injury" and I can't argue either way but I can see how this is possible when an athlete spends 12months "injured" and returns to racing with win's straight out of the box until the next "injury". In all of the events I have done, and this includes world championships I have never seen ASADA or WADA at an event. Actually, they were present at 1 Ironman event this year and they sat under a sunshade at the finishing complex for the day as I understand it. So in response to your question, my answer is that they do nothing, it's not actually a problem of not being able to do something - from what I can see, they just don't do anything. Even ASADA work on the principal of reducing incidences of all varieties of doping by fostering awareness and education.

[p38arover]

Absolutely! Just about every man and his dog will stay up until 2 in the morning, watch TdF and turn up for work again with eyes half stuck shut. :D

Not this little black duck!

[Slunnie]

Not this little black duck!

Surely that's only due to retirement! :lol2:

[p38arover]

Not at all. I find cycling almost as uninteresting as football. I've never watched the TdF.

[vnx205]

I don't bother watching the bikes, but during the highlights there is some spectacular footage of some of the very scenic locations through which the race progresses.

[Homestar]

Absolutely! Just about every man and his dog will stay up until 2 in the morning, watch TdF and turn up for work again with eyes half stuck shut. :D

I'm with Ron, watching cycling ranks somewhere between watching grass grow and synchronised swimming as far as entertainment goes from where I sit. I guarantee I won't lose one minutes sleep while it's on. ;)

[rangieman]

I'm with Ron, watching cycling ranks somewhere between watching grass grow and synchronised swimming as far as entertainment goes from where I sit. I guarantee I won't lose one minutes sleep while it's on. ;)

Yep x2 ;)
I think watching synchronised swimming would be a lot more entertaining:p

[bob10]

Forget the motors, electromagnets are the go now, apparently.

Mechanical doping: A brief history | Cyclingnews.com (http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/mechanical-doping-a-brief-history/)

[Slunnie]

I don't bother watching the bikes, but during the highlights there is some spectacular footage of some of the very scenic locations through which the race progresses.

TdF has to do so much for tourism over there. What a spectacular location.

[Slunnie]

Forget the motors, electromagnets are the go now, apparently.

Mechanical doping: A brief history | Cyclingnews.com (http://www.cyclingnews.com/features/mechanical-doping-a-brief-history/)

That's the wheel one I was talking about earlier.

[bob10]

Speaking about cycling, there is an ad with Anna Meares on tv, she stands in front of what looks like boxes, about shoulder height, and does a standing jump , from the floor to the top of the box. Talk about lower body strength. Impressed me.

[Killer]

This blew up with some girl in the MTB racing or Cross-triathlon or something and it's publicity has been great - it's making people get off their asses and do something. This isn't comparable to drugs at all, they way they were testing for drugs like EPO and testosterone was flawed from the start as they were testing to a threshold, now they use a biological passport to allow for individual differences which threshold doesn't but even within Australia the governing bodies know how to administer via micro dosing etc in a way that the testing protocols doesn't pick up. Mechanical doping is a whole different ball game. There are no thresholds etc. It's either there or it isn't. It can be picked up via heat, scans, inspections and metal detection etc. Its also not just motors in the seat tube that work on the crank, there are ways also of making the rear wheel drive. But you speak about Australia and in my last 2 years of feedback to ASADA I slammed them. The reality is that nobody is being picked up because nobody is being tested and nothing is being checked. If you see their list of banned athletes it is pretty obvious that they're not testing, of all of the people that I compete with/against I don't know of a single person that has been tested from the winner through to last place - I suspect it is more like tip offs which they have to respond to. Many people in my sport believe that athletes who have tested positive mysteriously spend 12months out with an "injury" and I can't argue either way but I can see how this is possible when an athlete spends 12months "injured" and returns to racing with win's straight out of the box until the next "injury". In all of the events I have done, and this includes world championships I have never seen ASADA or WADA at an event. Actually, they were present at 1 Ironman event this year and they sat under a sunshade at the finishing complex for the day as I understand it. So in response to your question, my answer is that they do nothing, it's not actually a problem of not being able to do something - from what I can see, they just don't do anything. Even ASADA work on the principal of reducing incidences of all varieties of doping by fostering awareness and education.

Slunnie, maybe they aren't testing the triathletes, but they are certainly testing track cyclists. My son has been attending the National Junior Track Series for the last four years, these are U15, U17,men and women and U19 women, several of the athletes there were tested with one Queensland girl tested at least three times.

Cheers, Mick.

[Slunnie]

Slunnie, maybe they aren't testing the triathletes, but they are certainly testing track cyclists. My son has been attending the National Junior Track Series for the last four years, these are U15, U17,men and women and U19 women, several of the athletes there were tested with one Queensland girl tested at least three times.

Cheers, Mick.
We are an unloved bunch! :lol2: That also included Cross-triathetes and Duathletes who are even more unloved. :(

That said, I also train with a girl who tried out TT. Nobody in the TT world knew her, she won NSW out of the box and then went on to win the Australian title in her second race... nothing. It will be interesting to see if they test in the upcoming worlds. That said, quite sincerely Mick I'm really pleased to here that they are testing at the track where they push big numbers. Personally, I think they should be testing at every state, national and world qualifier. It's great that the juniors who in reality are the ones who are the next big things grow up knowing and that all of the evidence is there to support the athletes and governing bodies in promoting that sports in Australia is clean.

Sadly, from what I've read, it's the age groupers who are the main offenders in sport, not the professionals.

[Slunnie]

Mick, not sure if they use Gels in Track, but the following email may be of interest.


Hi All,

Please find attached a memo regarding Shotz Cappuccino caffeinated gels from David Hughes - in his role as AOC Chief Medical Officer (CMO), AIS CMO and a member of the AIS Sports Supplement Panel. This memo has been sent across all Australian Olympic and Paralympic sports to ensure all Australian athletes are aware of this finding.

Several Shotz products were recently tested by a third party testing lab, to ensure safety for our Australian Athletes competing in Rio. Testing revealed that the sample of Shotz Cappuccino Energy Gel tested, contained Phenylethylamine - a stimulant (S6) that is banned in competition by WADA. It is important to note that Phenylethylamine (PEA) is a naturally occurring substance found in some foods, including cocoa. PEA is metabolised very quickly, and so it is unlikely to cause a positive urine sample. Additionally, ASADA were unable to advise of any analytical threshold that would be applied, but advised that lab testing was geared towards the detection of 'relatively high levels' of PEA in urine samples. Despite the unlikely event of an athlete testing positive, the advice received from the testing lab was for athletes to avoid using caffeinated Cappuccino Energy Shotz gels in competition.

Please note that testing was also conducted on Shotz electrolyte tablets, Cola-Vanilla caffeinated gels, protein bars, and some flavours of non-caffeinated gels, with no adverse findings. Therefore, athletes should not be deterred from using other Shotz products (other than the Cappuccino gel). This is because the PEA has come from the flavouring used in the Cappuccino gels. Shotz are currently working through this issue, and it will be resolved in due course.

This incident highlights the risks associated with using supplements in this case a sports food/fluid - sports gels. Sports gels are an unlikely suspect for contamination with prohibited substances, so this situation provides further reason to be selecting supplements that are third party tested. For instance, PowerBar Europe, Etixx, SIS have their entire ranges 3rd party tested including sports drinks, gels, electrolyte tabs and bars. Other companies have selected items tested such as GU, High 5 and Body Science.

As an athlete, you are 100% responsible to ensure the supplements you take offer low risk of containing banned supplements. Do your homework, check the company's website, send an email asking whether they have their supplements third party tested, ask your sports dietitian their advice on the supplement.

[Killer]

Thanks Slunnie, the closest my young fella gets to a supplement is milk, or a hot chocolate with the boys after a ride.
Cheers, Mick.