Bloody front oil seal

[Ean Austral]

Gday all,

Dry as a bone for 1000ks and now it's leaking 3 days before we head off to Ayres rock .

Looks like a few late nights coming up.

Cheers Ean

[sheerluck]

That's a pain in the wotsits Ean. :(

Did you have a guide to insert the seal, or did you do it by eye?

[Ean Austral]

No by eye. Spent a long time making sure the lip wasn't folded or not sitting right.

Cheers Ean

[LandyAndy]

Ean.
Check that any engine ventilation systems(egr etc) arent blocked causing blow by to make the seal leak.
I had constant issues with my D2 poping the front cam cover after fitting the Provent because it increased blow by pressure.
Andrew

[Ean Austral]

Think it's more that I just ****ed it up Andrew. I would say I never pushed it in far enough but I will find out on Friday arvo when I strip it down.

Cheers Ean

[vee8auto]

My commiserations, but please give us a post-mortem report on the seal. I am looking at doing my oil pump/housing in a few weeks and I could learn from this.

thanks.

[sheerluck]

Was it a genuine or aftermarket seal you used Ean?

[Grentarc]

Was it a genuine or aftermarket seal you used Ean?

My genuine one cost $18 including postage from the closest dealer - why would you go aftermarket!

Just remember you need to replace the crank pulley bolt!

[Ean Austral]

When I did it I was tempted to go to CBC and get a standard rubber lip seal that you put on wet. The LR seal is some sort of PVC looking seal that has to be fitted dry and is very easy to fold the lip that sits on the crank. You have to move it back roughly 30mm to the housing and they seem to be a 1 shot seal so I made sure I had a couple of spares. I have a feeling that I never fitted all the way home in the housing as the manual says leave 1-2mm protruding but I am told by a very good source this is for the older style housing and the new style the seal can be pushed fully home in the housing.

I also hear that the old rubber style lip seal that has been used for decades in all types of oil sealing applications is now being successfully used on these engines.

I should know more on Friday arvo.

Cheers Ean

[Ean Austral]

Was it a genuine or aftermarket seal you used Ean?

Genuine seal with the landrover badge and number on the bag. The genuine seal is about $11 plus postage, proberly cheaper if you shop around.

Cheers Ean

[Grentarc]

the new style the seal can be pushed fully home in the housing.


When I removed the seal on my 3.0 (it was seeping when we did the timing belt) it was all the way home before I pulled it out

[Ean Austral]

My genuine one cost $18 including postage from the closest dealer - why would you go aftermarket!

Just remember you need to replace the crank pulley bolt!


Yep I ordered 1 today,
Bolt $23
Seal $11
Overnight express airbag to Darwin from Melb $46.50 :mad::mad::mad:

Cheers Ean

[Grentarc]

We forgot the bolt, ordered one from the local Ford dealer $60 odd dollars for the bolt, no postage.

[sheerluck]

Genuine seal with the landrover badge and number on the bag. The genuine seal is about $11 plus postage, proberly cheaper if you shop around.

Cheers Ean

That's ok, was just checking, as there was a number of people complaining about aftermarket seals popping.

We could do with a forum special tool to pass around!

[LandyAndy]

That's ok, was just checking, as there was a number of people complaining about aftermarket seals popping.

We could do with a forum special tool to pass around!

The BFG would be rather expensive to post,especialy on niteroad:p:p:p:p:p
Andrew

[Ean Austral]

Well after much thought and a few conversations with our hydraulics fitters and our engine man I have decided to try a normal rubber lip seal. They have been using them in all things mechanical for decades and still are so I purchased 1 today and am going to see what happens.


Worse case is it leaks and I have to pull it apart and do it again.


Cheers Ean

[LandyAndy]

Will be interesting to see how you go Ean.
Hopefully it works for a few more than 1000ks.
Andrew

[Grentarc]

It will be interesting as my front seal leaks, then stops for a while, then starts again... then stops.... at the moment I am not leaking oil, but who knows how long that will last:(

[Ean Austral]

A run from Darwin to Alice out to the Rock and back should bed the seal in atleast.

I think its worth a try . Hopefully have it back together saturday arvo and give it a run.

Cheers Ean

[BigJon]

I had good success fitting the genuine seals by prefitting it to a socket the right size so you can ease it onto the socket "backwards" (the way that you can't fold the lip over.
Then hold the socket tight up against the crank and work the seal off the socket and onto the crank the right way around.

[Ean Austral]

I had good success fitting the genuine seals by prefitting it to a socket the right size so you can ease it onto the socket "backwards" (the way that you can't fold the lip over.
Then hold the socket tight up against the crank and work the seal off the socket and onto the crank the right way around.


That's how I did it except I had shim material as well so it could move onto the crank easier. I accept I most likely didn't fit it correctly but to last 1000ks without a drop then it started for no appearent reason.

Oh well I will see what It is like when I strip it down.

Cheers Ean

[vee8auto]

so does anyone know (for certain) what the issue is with these seals and why they have to be fitted dry?
Think about it, they are going to get covered in oil straight away, so why cant we put a little oil or grease on to allow it to slip onto the shaft?

its a single lip seal with a felt ring on the outside. The seal lip is very stiff ??

Whats the principal of this type of seal?

Any yes, I would be inclined to put a double lip seal on.

[Graeme]

I would never fit a seal with oil or grease, let alone where there will be pressure trying to push it out.

Edit: I lubricate the contact area and the shaft but have to be careful not to get any lubricant on the seat area.

[Graeme]

Well after much thought and a few conversations with our hydraulics fitters and our engine man I have decided to try a normal rubber lip seal.Is it directional?

[sheerluck]

There's a PTFE sealing lip. If that is contaminated with oil or grease (or if it isn't presented truly perpendicular to the crank) then the seal won't form. One manufacturer of that seal mandates that the engine shouldn't be started within 4 hours to ensure the seal forms.

I must admit, this engine is my first experience with anything other than a standard double lip type rubber seal, but those are the instructions (and reasonings) I've been given.

[vee8auto]

" the engine shouldn't be started within 4 hours "

.

4 hours...No chance of that at the rate that I work... 4 days maybe.

[sheerluck]

4 hours...No chance of that at the rate that I work... 4 days maybe.

:lol2:

Nothing wrong with being methodical! To be fair, the hardest part is getting the starter out, to get the locking pin in. That is a pig of a job.

[Graeme]

the hardest part is getting the starter out, to get the locking pin in. That is a pig of a job.I assume therefore that you haven't replaced the fuel pump belt on a 3.0 D4 because the 3.0's starter wasn't worth mentioning as a troublesome task by comparison.

[sheerluck]

I've not had the pleasure yet Graeme. I've heard it's a level of difficulty up from the 2.7, and I would have rated that a 6/10.

I'm blessed with little diddy hands that can fit in most places. :D

[Graeme]

My hand size didn't present a problem although they received some punishment. Rather it was no room to juggle the cover into position due to the coolant pipe running down the back very close to the cover and no access to the pipe's lower bracket. Removing the cover was bad enough but eventually used brute force to extricate it through a less than ideal gap. I've forgotten exactly how long I spent trying to refit the cover but it was several hours. Timing the pump was also frustrating, seeming never to get it correct but eventually did. I just loved working blind for hours on end!

[Ean Austral]

Well I stripped it this arvo and all I can say is the seal was wet but no obvious damage. So I am none the wiser as to why.


I was surprised how there was no oil on the timing belt or the pulley. I dare say it was a very small weep and most likely been leaking longer than I may have thought.


I have installed a new seal and got timing belt back on, will put it all back together tomorrow.


Funny thing with the starter , took me maybe 45 mins to get it off and moved to the side , took me 30 mins to get the bloody rubber plug that seals where the locking pin goes out from inside the bell housing as it fell inwards when I was trying to get it out.


I think my years working in boat engine rooms and fitting many things blind or with no room makes jobs like the starter motor seem not that hard.


See how long this seal lasts. I am not sure if the rubber seal will last as long as the Teflon seal would but time will tell.


Cheers Ean

[shanegtr]

Wouldn't be a true landrover without the odd oil leak would it
:rolleyes:
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