More gun trouble in the Land of the Free

[bob10]

Standoff in Dallas After 11 Officers Shot, 5 Killed After Protest - NBC News (http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/dallas-police-ambush/protests-spawn-cities-across-u-s-over-police-shootings-black-n605686?cid=eml_nbn_20160708)

[123rover50]

Its not gun trouble at all.
Its people trouble.

[sheerluck]

Its not gun trouble at all.
Its people trouble.

To be more accurate, it's people with guns trouble.

Those people would find it difficult to shoot people if they didn't have guns. And their answer is to buy more guns.

[123rover50]

So if a black truck driver with a beef against whites runs a semi through a cafe full of people and kills a bunch of them, its then called "truck trouble"?

Its like a chippie blaming his tools.
Where there is a will there is a way, but admittedly guns do make it easier.
Its the mindset of the people that has to change.

Keith

[Andrew86]

So if a black truck driver with a beef against whites runs a semi through a cafe full of people and kills a bunch of them, its then called "truck trouble"?

Its like a chippie blaming his tools.
Where there is a will there is a way, but admittedly guns do make it easier.
Its the mindset of the people that has to change.

Guns increase the severity of violent crime. That's just a fact.

There are crazy, angry people everywhere in the world. The difference in America is that they can get a gun very, very easily.

I really don't know what the solution is going to be over there. They're too far down the garden path for a reduction strategy to make any real difference and many citizens refuse to acknowledge that there's even a problem.

I guess I'm grateful that I can do my job and live my life in a country where I don't need to worry about sniper fire.

[sheerluck]

No, that's racially motivated murder Keith.

And to use your chippie blaming his tools analogy, if a chippie has decent power tools, he can build more houses, faster. If he uses hand tools only, he can still build houses, but it'll take him a lot longer.

Giving people access to high powered automatic assault rifles, where they can wander into a shopping centre, school, office or college with a few hundred rounds, and murder as many people as they can catch up to is just wrong on so many levels.
Don't like something your local police force have done? Sit on top of a building with your high powered sniper rifle, and pick a few off.

Removing access to those weapons won't stop people killing other people, there are too many mad, bad or sad folks in this world for that to just stop.

So I agree 100%, it is the mindset of the people that needs to change.

[Ean Austral]

Does anyone else find it strange that they want the right to carry weapons , it seems for protection against their own people.


The mentality that if joe blow has a gun , I am going to have a bigger gun seems totally against peace time logic.


You cant blame the police for being trigger happy, the thought of every person you pull over could possibly have a military style assault rifle would make anyone nervous.


I have no sympathy for them at all , its going to continue forever with that attitude. they don't seem slightly interested in changing things either


Cheers Ean

[Ausfree]

Makes you realise how lucky we are to live in Australia.:)

[rar110]

So if a black truck driver with a beef against whites runs a semi through a cafe full of people and kills a bunch of them, its then called "truck trouble"? Its like a chippie blaming his tools. Where there is a will there is a way, but admittedly guns do make it easier. Its the mindset of the people that has to change. Keith

Individuals seem much more able and willing to pull a trigger than harm or kill people in other ways.

[Pickles2]

"America, Land Of The Free"?.....It certainly is......it's the freeest place on earth, but yeah, I know, it's got a few problems, like we all have...... BIG fan of the U.S. here.
But I ain't no fan of the recent shootings. I've got nothing against firearms, in fact i love 'm,.....don't own one,...I could, but it ain't worth the drama, so I choose not to.
Anyone who "abuses" firearms, needs to be punished with the full force of the law.
"Full force of the law" ....something that is sadly lacking in Aussie today, and IMHO, which will eventually lead us to a place where we do not want to be,...I hope I will not be around then..
Punishment?...That U.S. Policeman needs to be subject to the FULL force of the law,...if it's murder, then he needs to cop the PROPER penalty.
YA THINK THIS IS CONFINED TO THE U.S.?...THINK AGAIN.
Pickles.

[Mick_Marsh]

From the linked article:

officials exchanged gunfire with the suspect and "saw no other option" but to kill him by detonating a bomb

So, the police couldn't find a bigger gun (that they could use), they escalated the war.
If I were a copper in America, I'd be walking. in armour.
I think police cars in America will now be bomb targets

[Pickles2]

From the linked article:


So, the police couldn't find a bigger gun (that they could use), they escalated the war.
If I were a copper in America, I'd be walking. in armour.
I think police cars in America will now be bomb targets
"Police cars",.."Bomb Targets",...In America?,....you could be right,.....what about in Aussie?
Pickles.

[bob10]

Any chance of a rational discussion?

[Mick_Marsh]

"Police cars",.."Bomb Targets",...In America?,....you could be right,.....what about in Aussie?
Pickles.
We don't get a lot of rogue police emptying their clip into people reaching for their license.
As we have seen in Australia, if a member of the constabulary goes off the rails, they soon get sorted out within the organisation. I think our coppers are pretty good. I've chatted with quite a few on the side of the road and I've only had trouble with one threatening to shoot me.
America has many problems with interactions between the public and the police. One of them is the prevalence of guns in their society. Another is the need for the politicisation of the police in America. A lot of the local police are on the payroll of the local governments. To guarantee the continuance of their jobs, they are under pressure to make the local elected officials look as if they have crime under control. They are under pressure to achieve a quick result. A correct result or wrong result, it doesn't matter as long as there is a quick result.
This often results in innocent people being fitted up and locked up which creates a lot of resentment.
We don't get a lot of that here in Australia.

[Pickles2]

So you don't think any of this stuff is likely to happen in Aussie?
Pickles.

[Mick_Marsh]

So you don't think any of this stuff is likely to happen in Aussie?
Pickles.
Don't forget, the equivalent of America's African slaves in Australia were the convicts.The convicts seem to have integrated themselves into Australian society. In fact, the people I have met who have a convict in their lineage, appear to be quite proud about it. They are not as persecuted as those who are descended from African slaves. They are not persecuted at all. They have no reason to rise up against the police. Add to that our police have no cause to empty a clip into any one individual. I don't think they would even want to.
Sure, in the past in Melbourne we had some colourful criminal identities. The Morans and Chopper spring to mind. There have been times in the past that lead has flown but I think that was an entirely different set of circumstances.
No, I don't think we will be seeing Americas problems here in Australia.

[Pickles2]

No worries, I get that, and I agree that our Police are doing a top job, paricularly with respect to the weak sentancing we are seeing, which I know from speaking to members, is particularly frustrating to them.
I suppose I was referring to your comment re "Bombs" with respect to people in Aussie with other issues/agendas, that we read about just about every day in the press, whose efforts to create mayhem, have largely & thankfully, been thwarted to date.
Pickles.

[Mick_Marsh]

The "bombs" comment came from the article.
The way I read it, I got the impression the police in America detonated a bomb to take out the sniper. Is that right?

The way I see it:
- American policemen empty clips into compliant members of the public
(remember when Mike Moore in "The Awful Truth" reported on that incident where the police got the address wrong, knocked on the wrong door, and when the American female resident of African descent of that home answered the door holding a vegetable strainer, the policeman emptied his clip into her)
- American member of the public gets bigger gun and shoot police
- American police use bomb to kill sniper

It's a progression of escalation. Where will it stop?

Land of the free indeed. Glad I don't live there.

[bob10]

So you don't think any of this stuff is likely to happen in Aussie?
Pickles.

NO.

[bob10]

I believe the Dallas Police had no choice. The shooter was given the choice, surrender and no harm will come to you, or shoot on and die.He chose the latter. Whether police should have access to surplus military equipment , and how high up the chain of command they went to get permission to use the robot, has not been revealed. I'm willing to say, if he had been an Islamic terrorist, attitudes may be different. I remember the 70's, racial violence was rife, sailors on US Navy carriers were stabbing each other, for goodness sake. I thought they had moved on. It seems they have just papered over the cracks. However, it is a problem for the Americans. They alone can fix this. No one else should pontificate . And the problem does not transfer to Australia. To suggest so indicates a lack of understanding .

[Pickles2]

It does not indicate "a lack of understanding".
That may be your understanding. Others, & they do, have a different "understanding".
It appears to me, that at the moment, NO-ONE has the right "understanding" that is "understandable" to everyone,.....and it needs to be, understandable & acceptable, to everyone.
Pickles.

[bob10]

It does not indicate "a lack of understanding".
That may be your understanding. Others, & they do, have a different "understanding".
It appears to me, that at the moment, NO-ONE has the right "understanding" that is "understandable" to everyone,.....and it needs to be, understandable & acceptable, to everyone.
Pickles.

Outstanding. You have managed to channel Rumsfeld;

https://youtu.be/GiPe1OiKQuk

[bob10]

This is how it was done.

https://youtu.be/cs8tMIKUBGI

[bob10]

What now for Dallas.

How will Dallas change after the deadly attack? - News from Al Jazeera (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2016/07/dallas-change-deadly-attack-160709125230744.html?utm_source=Al+Jazeera+English +Newsletter+%7C+Weekly&utm_campaign=74abf55f7d-weekly_newsletter&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_e427298a68-74abf55f7d-225425297)

[bee utey]

One of these parties is dressed to do violence.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/07/795.jpg

[bob10]

Yes, very confronting.Seems to be the way of the World, at the moment. Makes you wonder what they are training for.Let's hope common sense and restraint prevail, I'm over radicals driving the agenda.

[bob10]

The story behind the photo. Shades of Tiannamen Square. I've seen all this before, during the Vietnam peace rallies. This is not the first time .

'Iconic' images of protester in USA goes viral | The New Daily (http://thenewdaily.com.au/news/2016/07/11/protester-dress-black-lives-matter/?utm_source=Responsys&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=20160712_TND)