Question - RRC and Long Range Tanks

[gavinwibrow]

Question
I just had a look under the rear section, and although I hope I'm wrong, it would appear that the swaybar behind the rear axle precludes any potential for fitting a long range tank that sits lower than the original (although still higher than the bottom of the rear axle/diff.
I do have sill tanks (1 water/ 1 diesel) plus EAS
Cheers Gavin

[bee utey]

1. Ditch the sway bar at the same time as you look at slightly stronger springs to hold up the tank's extra weight.

2. Lower the sway bar pivots using spacer blocks so that it clears the long range tank.

[rangieman]

RRC and D1 chassis are the same .
I had a 120 ltr longranger tank in a D1 with the sway bar still in place;)

[cripesamighty]

x2 as Rangieman. I currently have a D1 with the swaybar still in place with a 120L tank fitted. If you fit a tank larger than 120L, it might not fit though.

[PhilipA]

I had a 135 l Long Ranger in my 91 and the sway bar mounts had to go.
Regards PhilipA

[gavinwibrow]

Thanks guys. I love this forum, or more correctly the gurus who contribute, and Dave for providing/maintaining it!
Off to measure tomorrow on the off chance I can either squeeze it in or drop/extend the swaybar mounts a wee bit. No springs - its EAS.

[superquag]

... And it's an LSE as well... Not sure if it would be wise to delete the rear sway bar, as it may have insurance implications.:o

[gavinwibrow]

Won't be removing. Happy to relocate/drop if possible, but the bar remains. LSE is as you know 8 inches longer in the middle, but no difference to standard RRC rear of the rear axle.
Are you still counting in your sleep working on the election counts?

[superquag]

... Let's put it this way... Found in the Rest-room.. a stack of paper towels on the sink... with an attached little yellow 'post-it' note - and a number thereon.
- someone had counted them !

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20 ,21,22,23,24,25.

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20 ,21,22,23,24,25.

1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20 ,21,22,23,24,25.
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20 ,21,22,23,24,25.
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20 ,21,22,23,24,25.
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20 ,21,22,23,24,25.
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20 ,21,22,23,24,25.
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20 ,21,22,23,24,25.
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20 ,21,22,23,24,25.
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20 ,21,22,23,24,25.
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20 ,21,22,23,24,25.
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20 ,21,22,23,24,25.
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20 ,21,22,23,24,25.
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20 ,21,22,23,24,25.
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20 ,21,22,23,24,25.
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20 ,21,22,23,24,25.
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20 ,21,22,23,24,25.
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20 ,21,22,23,24,25.
1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10,11,12,13,14,15,16,17,18,19,20 ,21,22,23,24,25.

[DieselLSE]

I have a TJM 120L (about 128L when neck filled up) on my LSE (with EAS) which required the removal of the rear bar. The extra weight of the tank and fuel easily compensated and I noticed no difference in the handling. Mind you, I've since removed the front one, too, which does affect handling but I drive quite sedately (as you do with a diesel!)
BUT, a tip for young players: the fuel pump location in the new tank will almost certainly not line up with the access hole in the floor. It is a simple procedure to create a new hole and you will probably find a cover plate from a wreck or easily fabricate a new one. If you don't do this and your in tank pump fails, you will have to drain and drop the tank which is a real pain. Oh, and you may need to lengthen the sender arm and play around with it a bit so that your guage accurately reflects the fuel level.

[superquag]

I have a TJM 120L (about 128L when neck filled up) on my LSE (with EAS) which required the removal of the rear bar. The extra weight of the tank and fuel easily compensated and I noticed no difference in the handling. Mind you, I've since removed the front one, too, which does affect handling but I drive quite sedately (as you do with a diesel!)
BUT, a tip for young players: the fuel pump location in the new tank will almost certainly not line up with the access hole in the floor. It is a simple procedure to create a new hole and you will probably find a cover plate from a wreck or easily fabricate a new one. If you don't do this and your in tank pump fails, you will have to drain and drop the tank which is a real pain. Oh, and you may need to lengthen the sender arm and play around with it a bit so that your gauge accurately reflects the fuel level.


. . . It doesn't do it now, so why change things ? :wasntme:

[Chivalry]

Did you find a way to put your long range in with the EAS? I have a long range tank sitting in the shed that I would like to use if I can but I will not remove the EAS.

[Vern]

Did you find a way to put your long range in with the EAS? I have a long range tank sitting in the shed that I would like to use if I can but I will not remove the EAS.
Why would you have to remove the eas to fit a long range tank? Sill tanks yes, but long range no

[gavinwibrow]

Did you find a way to put your long range in with the EAS? I have a long range tank sitting in the shed that I would like to use if I can but I will not remove the EAS.

Fitting a long range tank would appear to be a lottery, with anything up to 120L potentially fitting without affecting EAS, but??? The one I looked at was just too close to call without actually trying to fit it, and yes would have required a mod to the sway bar. Has since been sold, so back to square 1. I do have the luxury of 1 x 45L sill tank, plus a 28L version for water.

[Vern]

But how does it affect the eas?

[gavinwibrow]

But how does it affect the eas?

I didn't think it would, nor can I see how ie no different to loading up the rear, and no need to relocate any EAS parts. Suggestion otherwise may have been posted by another as I recall?

I'm still on the lookout for a larger tank that will fit as a replacement without any other mods, but guess I should be happy with 95L in D2 main and 45L in sill with TD5 fuel pump in sill tank to transfer to main tank (takes about 20 - 30 mins if I recall).

[Vern]

I have 120 in the back and 45 each sill in my LSE, but i don't run eas, so i could remove the eas pump from under the sill.
Swaybars i just dropped the mounts 50mm and moved them forward.

[Chivalry]

What I meant was, if fitting a long range tank while keeping EAS meant modifying the sway bar, sway bar mounts or any other components that would effect the operation of the EAS, was that I would prefer to not fit a long range tank. I don't have a LSE and I want to keep the EAS so as far as I am aware, fitting sill tanks without a lot of modification is not possible.

Do you recall what type/brand of long range tank that was Gavin? Looking at the one I have and looking under the car makes me think mine would fit but it looks very close. I'm quite sure the access hatch in the boot floor will also become irrelevant for the long range.

[Vern]

120L long range tank will fit if you lower the sway bar mounts. 1 sill tank will fit, the other won't due to the eas compressor, unless you move it.

[gavinwibrow]

Do you recall what type/brand of long range tank that was Gavin? Looking at the one I have and looking under the car makes me think mine would fit but it looks very close. I'm quite sure the access hatch in the boot floor will also become irrelevant for the long range.

Sorry don't know the model. Was sold by a member on here some months ago.

As noted, I have a 45L sill fuel tank on the LHS? (filler opposite side to the normal fuel entry point in the rear wheel well, and a 28L water tank on the other side - also filled via the wheel well - I guess to take advantage of the ability to EAS lift the body out of the way for refilling access. Which, without me being near to the car to check, suggests a smaller tank on the RHS water side to overcome having to move EAS stuff. I'll double check locations next time I visit Bessie (QE II luxobarge)
Cheers Gavin

[Mercguy]

Fwiw, I contacted longranger early last week and they stated they no longer manufacture long-range tanks for (at least my 1991) RRC's.

Seems like there's no interest - based on the response.

[Davo]

You're into DIY land with cars of this age these days. I've made a few Landie tanks and it's not that hard, (but you do need to be a perfectionist!), but with the Range Rover I don't want the filler in the floor or the in the wheel arch, but I can't think of anything else so far.

[Mercguy]

You're into DIY land with cars of this age these days. I've made a few Landie tanks and it's not that hard, (but you do need to be a perfectionist!), but with the Range Rover I don't want the filler in the floor or the in the wheel arch, but I can't think of anything else so far.

I'm thinking this will end up being what I'll have to do eventually. I'm wanting around 150L, and it may be possible, as I've got a body-lift to fit up still.

I'll have to really start thinking about that I guess.... incorporate a swirl pot and a few other things, like in-tank strainer, water / sediment trap, separate tank drain, baffles, and use a standard VDO tank sender, make it accessible through that floor cover and utilize external pumps. Maybe a surge tank?
Or just get one made for eleventy billion dollars?

125820

[bee utey]

I'm thinking this will end up being what I'll have to do eventually. I'm wanting around 150L, and it may be possible, as I've got a body-lift to fit up still.

I'll have to really start thinking about that I guess.... incorporate a swirl pot and a few other things, like in-tank strainer, water / sediment trap, separate tank drain, baffles, and use a standard VDO tank sender, make it accessible through that floor cover and utilize external pumps. Maybe a surge tank?
Or just get one made for eleventy billion dollars?



It's not particularly hard to use the later pump assembly that comes complete with surge pot and level sender, why reinvent the wheel?

[RaZz0R]

brown davis would taken on a custom tank build for ya easy as.

Long range Fuel Tanks – Brown Davis- Long Range Fuel Tanks, Underbody Protection, Roll Cages and Motorsport (https://www.browndavis.com.au/long-range-fuel-tanks/)

located in Bayswater and I will be using them for my secondary sill tank.

LAND ROVER RANGE ROVER 1970-1995 Long Range Fuel Tanks | Under Body Protection | Rollcages | UnderGuards | Roll Over Protection | Battery Trays (https://www.browndavis.com.au/products.php'make=LAND+ROVER&model=RANGE+ROVER&series=1970-1995)
[wink11]

[RaZz0R]

I'm thinking this will end up being what I'll have to do eventually. I'm wanting around 150L, and it may be possible, as I've got a body-lift to fit up still.

I'll have to really start thinking about that I guess.... incorporate a swirl pot and a few other things, like in-tank strainer, water / sediment trap, separate tank drain, baffles, and use a standard VDO tank sender, make it accessible through that floor cover and utilize external pumps. Maybe a surge tank?
Or just get one made for eleventy billion dollars?

125820

135lt main, 40lt each sill tank = 215lt ish

I got 120lt main and 40lt sill for 160 total. Other sill will be a water tank with pump to even weight out.

[Mercguy]

brown davis would taken on a custom tank build for ya easy as.

Long range Fuel Tanks – Brown Davis- Long Range Fuel Tanks, Underbody Protection, Roll Cages and Motorsport (https://www.browndavis.com.au/long-range-fuel-tanks/)

located in Bayswater and I will be using them for my secondary sill tank.

LAND ROVER RANGE ROVER 1970-1995 Long Range Fuel Tanks | Under Body Protection | Rollcages | UnderGuards | Roll Over Protection | Battery Trays (https://www.browndavis.com.au/products.php'make=LAND+ROVER&model=RANGE+ROVER&series=1970-1995)
[wink11]


When I originally researched this a couple years ago, people stated they had issues with the BD tanks leaking from the pump collar, something about it not being recessed either.

For simplicity and ease of access, I'd prefer to have my pumps external, and use the tubular type sender, rather than the lever arm type.

Given the new tank will be for Diesel, the desire for a proper drain plug, and a water trap would be nice also.

BD took ages to return my enquiry, and even after that, it was being handled through someone in the office indirectly, instead of allowing a direct communication with the person who had the knowledge.

I'm pretty sure I'll be able to knock up a decent alloy one, I'm just not in a position where I have time or space to do it in the near future.

[RaZz0R]

When I originally researched this a couple years ago, people stated they had issues with the BD tanks leaking from the pump collar, something about it not being recessed either.
For simplicity and ease of access, I'd prefer to have my pumps external, and use the tubular type sender, rather than the lever arm type.
Given the new tank will be for Diesel, the desire for a proper drain plug, and a water trap would be nice also.
BD took ages to return my enquiry, and even after that, it was being handled through someone in the office indirectly, instead of allowing a direct communication with the person who had the knowledge.
I'm pretty sure I'll be able to knock up a decent alloy one, I'm just not in a position where I have time or space to do it in the near future.

Oh really? My house mate does their tooling for them and I am in Bayswater - would be keen to drop past them and complain for ya ;)

[RaZz0R]

When I originally researched this a couple years ago, people stated they had issues with the BD tanks leaking from the pump collar, something about it not being recessed either.
For simplicity and ease of access, I'd prefer to have my pumps external, and use the tubular type sender, rather than the lever arm type.
Given the new tank will be for Diesel, the desire for a proper drain plug, and a water trap would be nice also.
BD took ages to return my enquiry, and even after that, it was being handled through someone in the office indirectly, instead of allowing a direct communication with the person who had the knowledge.
I'm pretty sure I'll be able to knock up a decent alloy one, I'm just not in a position where I have time or space to do it in the near future.

I just called them and asked about my water tank that I want done... I also mentioned about this - Wow did they just fire up.

In shot if you think they have stuffed you around for a tank, call them and say so and I am sure you will get nothing but 100% do it.

I will be going there later in the day.

[Mercguy]

I just called them and asked about my water tank that I want done... I also mentioned about this - Wow did they just fire up.

In shot if you think they have stuffed you around for a tank, call them and say so and I am sure you will get nothing but 100% do it.

I will be going there later in the day.


Well You're welcome to - It's a pity I deleted the emails now - because the guy who was supposed to contact me allegedly went away on holiday, was due back the following week, and the office staff could not provide me with the information I required at the time. I never heard back, and I did chase them with a follow-up call. He wasn't there the second time either. I never did get that callback.
This was approx dec 2014 Not long after I bought the car... I posted a thread somewhere here, but honestly, I just can't be bothered dealing with a company when I don't get a response. It's the wrong attitude if you EXPECT me to pay top dollar for your product.

At least Long Ranger emailed me back within a day and said - sorry - but no we don't make them.

insofar as sill tanks are concerned - not for fuel. Maybe down the track for water, but in all honesty, it's not even on the agenda as there's sufficient space for a bladder behind the front seats on the floor - if I need it. Something else I dislike about sill tanks is the filling and transfer solutions employed. I don't believe any tank should have a filler inside the cabin. and Transferring fluids side to side with pumps etc just overcomplicates things - Yeah, not for me.

But I don't think it would be too hard to get near to 150L with the body lift in place. Especially as there would be no requirement for internal pumps.

Let us know how you go with your tank - it will be interesting to see if you receive favourable treatment as your roomie works there.... You might get a decent discount ;)

[Vern]

I have a body lift and a 120L tank, i pushed the tank up as far as i could, i wouldn't want it hanging down any lower.

Also, they pop up secondhand from time to time.

[gavinwibrow]

1. Ditch the sway bar at the same time as you look at slightly stronger springs to hold up the tank's extra weight.

2. Lower the sway bar pivots using spacer blocks so that it clears the long range tank.



Sounds good, but I have EAS thatvI want to retain.

[Mercguy]

Sounds good, but I have EAS thatvI want to retain.


If you use a spacer block on the bar mount, You can retain the bar and it won't affect the operation. The bar still retains it's torsional rigidity, it simply swings in a slightly repositioned arc.

I have the bars on my RRC and coils, and I'll still retain the bar, but have considered a quick disconnect setup for the offroad work.

I've seen the LRA setup, and it's clever use of common parts - torsion bar, locking hub and a blade type arm, and a setup like that would be fairly straightforward, but not the cheapest setup.

Still, it's likely to be cheaper if you have the fabrication skills, to DIY a solution similar to that. I nearly dropped dead when I saw the ridiculous amount LRA were demanding for them. There's value, sure, but it falls well short of the almost $2K theyre asking. They obviously don't want to sell any. [bigwhistle][bighmmm]

[Vern]

When you find a swaybar disconnect that works, post it up! Obviously not the $2000 one😊

[Mercguy]

I actually just got off the phone to the technical advisor up at Fulcrum, who have made customer selby bars in years past for myself and other guys.

When discussed the requirements, the interesting thing that was pointed out is that the torsion bar is likely to be imported.

Lovells & King Springs don't do torsion bars, but Phil gardner (Rage / Gardner engineering) may have a solution - I'm just waiting to hear back from him.

Anyway, that is taking this OT a little - the bottom line is that the bar can be retained for EAS, and it's no big deal if a long range tank is desired.

I'll cover the swaybar research on another thread.

[PhilipA]

I found with my 91RRc , that when you fit heavier springs, you don't want or need a rear stabilizer bar as it makes the car too "tailly"
Before I put the bar on I had 160 Lb springs in the front and 180Lb in the back with airbags and working Hydromat.
I found the car to be tailly as the roll stiffness is increased greatly by the stiffer springs and airbags.

I fitted a Long Ranger 140 litre tank which needed the rear bar mounts cut off as it has extensions each side of the chassis.
I found the tank, springs, and airbags to be an ideal combination without a stab bar.

Remember that a stab bar is only there to increase roll stiffness to allow for softer springs to be used. When you whack in heavier springs and air bags , the roll stiffness is increased anyway, and in most cases too much if the stab bar is retained..
Also the stab bars were only introduced so that the Americans were not alarmed by body lean when entering expressways, the actual road holding is unchanged. In fact when going up the cape I removed my front bar as well for much better articulation.
Regards Philip A

[Chivalry]

To bring this up again, has anyone fitted the D1 Brown Davis long range tank with a ARB rear step bar? The tank I'm looking at drops below the chassis rails a little on each side, looking at photos of the tank and looking underneath the arse end of the Rangie, I am sure that this -would- be a tight fit with the ARB rear bar.

[350RRC]

I had a 2 door that had a long range tank (brand unknown) and an ARB step bar on the back. Had a 2" body lift, but don't know if that was necessary for the two to fit together.

Can't recall any clearance issues.

PM Dungarover to get the brand of the tank.

DL

[Homestar]

Mine was a bit of a tight fit, but they do go in ok - see pic. The rear braces from the ARB rear step bar run past the side of the long range tank, but if it looks the same as mine (I'm almost positive its a Brown Davis unit) then you should be fine.

If you need any more pics, let me know.

152713

[gavinwibrow]

To bring this up again, has anyone fitted the D1 Brown Davis long range tank with a ARB rear step bar? The tank I'm looking at drops below the chassis rails a little on each side, looking at photos of the tank and looking underneath the arse end of the Rangie, I am sure that this -would- be a tight fit with the ARB rear bar.


And I too have an ARB rear bar to go with the retained EAS, so likewise, still interested - assuming the old girl ever gets back on the road!

[Mercguy]

My memory is a little hazy on this, but if I recall correctly, the Brown Davis "high capacity" long range tank actually requires the RRC to have the LRA 50mm body lift for it to correctly fit.

There is a 'regular' version from what I remember and both did fit in with the ARB rear bar in situ. However...

It would be a brave man that attempts to undertake the fitment of these alone (get a mate to help or risk being crushed by the weight) AND -

absolutely remove the ARB rear bar before removing the original tank and refitting the BD one. or better still, get someone else to do it for you, if you can trust anyone to do it properly....

I think the reason the auxillary sill tanks were so prevalent for this model stem from the fact that unless the body is lifted off the chassis rails, there is stuff-all possibility of upgrading the capacity of the fuel tank in the factory location to an amount that is justifiable for the cost of the replacement tank.

I also thought that the extra capacity tank was 135 litres? I may be wrong.

[350RRC]

IF the one I had was Brown Davis, I did note that there was 2" clearance between the top of the tank and the floor all round, with a 2" body lift.

i.e. This one appeared to have been made to fit assuming no body lift.

I did ponder what might happen if it didn't have the 2" lift with the buildup of dirt, etc in a tighter confine between the top of the tank and the floor where you had no chance of cleaning it.

DL

Edit: Talked to Trav who owns it now, it was Brown Davis (he sold it) and it will fit without a body lift.

(And it had an ARB step bar when I had it, and if anyone wants the bar (AND TONGUE) it's all yours with a swing away wheel carrier for $100)

[Mercguy]

That makes complete sense, and It concurs with the info BD gave me when I was looking for a large capacity tank.

Just so I am being clear, BD make two tanks. One (the extra large capacity) requires the 2" body lift for it to fit, whereas the 'standard' long range tank does not require the lift.

[Homestar]

That sounds about right. I think the standard long range tank is 120 litres and the extra long tank is 135. You’d need that extra 2” for that extra 15 litres. 👍

[Chivalry]

So it would seem that the tank I have is actually a Defender tank, going from the few CAD images I can find of it, as it has the little 'wings' that come out under the chassis rails. The guy I bought it from did say it had come out of a 94 D1 but I have no idea if that is just what he was told or if that D1 had any sort of body lift.

Hopefully I'll be fitting it in a few weeks, or at least trying to. I will update here when I do so.

[350RRC]

So it would seem that the tank I have is actually a Defender tank, going from the few CAD images I can find of it, as it has the little 'wings' that come out under the chassis rails. The guy I bought it from did say it had come out of a 94 D1 but I have no idea if that is just what he was told or if that D1 had any sort of body lift.

Hopefully I'll be fitting it in a few weeks, or at least trying to. I will update here when I do so.

Mine had those.

Watch out for the spigot for the air vent right next to the shock absorber on the driver side, was a tight fit (by someone) on the one I had.

DL

[PhilipA]

The guy I bought it from did say it had come out of a 94 D1 but I have no idea if that is just what he was told or if that D1 had any sort of body lift.

It sounds like a Long Ranger tank for a RRC with plastic tank or Disco.AFAIR they are the same.

If it has the extensions under the chassis it is a 135-140 l . The Long Ranger doesn't need a body lift but it is tight as the fitters at Graeme Cooper did not reroute my taillight wire and it rubbed through.

If it is a Long Ranger I think it will fit with an ARB bar as AFAIR I had one on my 91 for a while. There should be cutouts for the braces to the bolts in the chassis. But no sway bar mounts possible.
You have to make a new flap to access the fuel pump forward of the current one. This is worth it as I found out when my pump failed. You still have to drain out petrol to under the fuel pump level as it is recessed.
AFAIK you are stuck with having the gauge show full until the tank is down to about half capacity. Same in my D2 as the 2xRRCs I had.
Regards Philip A

[Meccles]

Mine has the 120 liter Brown Davis I fitted it back in mid nineties it’s still in great condition. Unlike rear sill it bolts too though that has been replaced. They also had a “ belly strap” which I’ve retained. There is room for ARB rear bar.

[RedBear]

IF the one I had was Brown Davis, I did note that there was 2" clearance between the top of the tank and the floor all round, with a 2" body lift.

i.e. This one appeared to have been made to fit assuming no body lift.

I did ponder what might happen if it didn't have the 2" lift with the buildup of dirt, etc in a tighter confine between the top of the tank and the floor where you had no chance of cleaning it.

DL

Edit: Talked to Trav who owns it now, it was Brown Davis (he sold it) and it will fit without a body lift.

(And it had an ARB step bar when I had it, and if anyone wants the bar (AND TONGUE) it's all yours with a swing away wheel carrier for $100)

PM sent RE: ARB step bar :)