Setting up MY16.5 SDV6SE Questions

[Hugh Jars]

Hi everyone,
I've been mainly a loiterer for the past couple of months, soaking up the wisdom on this site. Thanks.

I have an SDV6SE due the last week of July. I'll be towing an AOR Quantum 4, which is being built at the moment. I've bought a Mitch Hitch, which I'll fit once I take delivery. As for bullbars, I've been following the ARB bullbar thread with interest, so it'll be between the ARB and OL bars.

Can anyone please give me feedback on dealing with any of the ARB branches in Sydney? (pricing and quality of work). By PM if need be.... I'm in the Northern Suburbs.

There's a few questions i have regarding setting up for towing.

The trailer will have AL-KO disc brakes, so that limits my brake controller options to Tekonsha Prodigy P2, or the P3 (which I have on my current vehicle). Does anyone have any info on where to locate the P3 in the Disco? Pictures of your setup would be great :) (AL-KO and AOR say the Tow-Pro's are not compatible, including the Elite, so that counts them out).

AOR requires me to fit a 12 pin flat socket to the Disco, with one of the large pins as the ignition trigger wire for the Redarc Manager 30 system in the camper. Which is the best way to wire the 12 pin into the Disco, and where/how to mount the socket? Also, does the current series Disco require resistors (or a module) to be installed to recognise a trailer with LED lights? The AOR has LEDs.

I'm pretty well sold on the Traxide system. I haven't contacted Tim yet, but was hoping to figure out which solution was best suited for running a Waeco in the back, Anderson to the camper for the Manager 30, and possible winching (yet to decide). Those of you that have installed it DYI, was it relatively easy? (I'm electric-savvy and have plenty of tools etc. Not sure how much patience, though [biggrin]

My Disco will come without roof rails. I would like to put roof bars (probably 3 to carry a kayak). I know Rhino has a kit for this, but does anyone else offer one of similar quality with the option of a basket when not carrying a kayak?

I have a Provent catch can I'd like to fit. The engine bay looks pretty cramped. Has anyone fitted one to a D4, and where did you mount it?

Finally, I have a Safety Dave rear camera system to install for the camper. Has anyone fitted the wiring to a Disco for a removable windscreen mount monitor?

Sorry about the long-winded post. i hope you can point me in the right direction. Thanks in advance :BigThumb:

[kelvo]

I was under the impression that the Tow Pro Elite was ok with disc brakes, assuming they are electric hydraulic disc brakes.

https://www.redarc.com.au/tow-pro-elite-electric-brake-controller

Can't help with any of your other queries.

[rhinosm]

I have Tow Pro and tow a trailer with disc's.
No issues at all.

So far as Traxide, I installed myself.
Just take your time, ,easier twice cut once.
The kit is great, everything is there.
The daunting thing is dismantling your new car.
Good luck

[LandyAndy]

When buying my Tow Pro I was told its compatible with all towing systems.
Just had a google,you may have been told porkies!!!!
I had a prodigy 2 in my D2,Tow pro in the D4.
The Tow Pro definately brakes the same trailer much better!!!!

https://www.redarc.com.au/news/tow-pro-approved-for-use-with-al-ko-esc

Andrew

[jon3950]

I think the pick of the ARB dealers on the northside is Mannell Motors. There is another one closer to the city who I have always found difficult to deal with as they don't seem to like Land Rovers.

Cheers,
Jon

[Graeme]

Mounting spots for a P3 in a D4 are like hen's teeth, unlike the Tow-Pro.

[DI5CO]

Re LED Load box, you will need one only if you want the beepers to turn off in reverse and the trailer sway to operate.

[Nod]

I have an AOR trailer with iQ7. Have a TowPro... no issues (7,000 kms towing). Was told that it had to be P3... but did not like any of the mounting options. Before I picked up the trailer put in a flat 12 pin, the TowPro, and resistors. 6 months later put a camera on the back and routed it to the D4 screen (details on all mods on the forum).
Happy to discuss.

[Hugh Jars]

Thanks all for your help so far.

Nod, is your controller the Elite (proportional)? I spoke directly to Al-Ko Technical and they said 'no' to any Redarc controller. So it's really interesting (and promising) that yours is working fine with the IQ-7.
Did you have any problems with auto calibration? My research shows this, and/or not recognising the trailer is connected might be 2 reasons for Alko not approving the Redarc.

[Milton477]

I'm not sure how any brake controller can tell what sort of brakes are on the trailer. All it sees is that there are some brakes connected & then operates them according to its settings. I previously had a P3 in my D2 & have installed a TowPro Elite in my D4. The same caravan's brakes definitely seem to work better with the TowPro.

The Traxide dual battery system comes with excellent instructions. If you are handy, give it a go. Install it at the same time as the dual battery so that you only dismantle the trim & dash once. The route is the same. Oh & while you are about it, pull in a suitable supply for an under the seat mounted UHF + antenna.

If you are going to be charging the Quantum batteries fro the D4 may I suggest that you explore the option of charging through an Anderson Plug rather than through the flat trailer plug. There is more scope for heavier gauge wire (16mm2), less volt drop & anyway, one of Traxide's kits includes an Anderson Plug. The reverse can also be useful when camped & not driving much then the solar panels on the camper can be used to charge the D4 batteries through the Traxide wiring. I have an 8 pin (8?) & bought an adaptor cable from the round black plug to flat from Supercheap. No mods to my D4 therefore. These are just my experiences.

Roll on the last week of July I bet. How many more sleeps?

[Graeme]

Re LED Load box, you will need one only if you want the beepers to turn off in reverse and the trailer sway to operate.Trailer sway detect operates without any electrical connection to the trailer as the D4 recognises sway patterns as being caused by a trailer.

[Graeme]

I spoke directly to Al-Ko Technical and they said 'no' to any Redarc controller.I suggest that you speak with Redarc for their opinion although you would still need to pick a side afterwards.

[Hugh Jars]

If you are going to be charging the Quantum batteries fro the D4 may I suggest that you explore the option of charging through an Anderson Plug rather than through the flat trailer plug.

Thanks Milton477. I will be using an Anderson, as it also feeds the IQ-7 unit, and is the breakaway link (no seperate trip wire). The only wire in the large pins of the 12-pin is for an ignition trigger wire (sense only) but I think AOR use one of these for the breakaway battery in drum brake campers.

Does the Traxide go through the firewall? If so, that would be a good time to run the coax for a UHF etc.

Supposed to pick the Q4 up around the 16th Aug. I have to wait & see what my roster brings. Looking forward to it!!

I'll be chatting with Redarc tomorrow, Graeme. Thinking about a LLAMS once the bank account recovers :D

[laughto]

Unless you really want/need the 12 pin plug for some reason, please I'd be suggesting to AOR that they set up the power connections as you want, not what is easiest for them. As suggested above, an Anderson plug is a good option IMHO and retains the integrity of the car's existing 12N & 12S plugs. My Camper manufacturer certainly complied to our needs and supplied as per our wishes.

Others on this forum have also gone down the path you are with the 12 pin. Personal preference.

Sent from my SM-T810 using AULRO mobile app

[weeds]

does your AOR have electric over hydraulic brakes?.....

i have electric over hydraulic brakes and could get a tow pro to make them work.....a mate has a different pump on his and it works fine with a tow pro.....my instance could be a one off, i do loke the mounting option of a tow pro.

[Meken]

111479
Made this for d4 to 12 flat on my van - easy - remove centre pin from the standard large 7 pin round to make it a "white" plug or buy a white plug on eBay from uk
111480
There are 2 earth pins in the white socket that get joined anyway back in loom so it was okay in my auto leccy's opinion to remove 1. I'm not running any heavy currents through it - I have an Andersen plug also

[Graeme]

Get a white plug from our ebay for under $6 and don't have any confusion.

[Hugh Jars]

Gidday Meken,
Is one of the plugs a 7-pin large like in AU, or are they both (with one modified)? I like your idea of plugging into the existing system.

Weeds, the Al-Ko IQ-7 is air over hydraulic (with its own compressor).

Laughto, It's too late to change the 12 pin plug at the moment, as the trailer is in the build phase. However, I now think I'll follow your suggestion and modify the trailer wiring to fit the existing plugs on the Disco once I get it home.

[Nod]

My TowPro is the previous model. I have not calibrated the TowPro with the iQ7... I used a mates TVan as I wanted to test the setup before picking up the trailer. I took a 21W 24V (recommended by Redarc) resistor up to AOR in case the TowPro didn't recognise the iQ7 (to be put between blue and ground)... but soon as the trailer (iQ7) was plugged in the TowPro saw it (blue solid).

With the iQ7 you don't need the brakeaway wire in the 12 pin flat (even though AOR's pictures show it). Therefore you could easily not swap out to the 12 pin. The iQ7 applies the trailer brakes (for atleast 15 mins) on loosing the Anderson connection.

[Meken]

Gidday Meken,

Is one of the plugs a 7-pin large like in AU, or are they both (with one modified)? I like your idea of plugging into the existing system.



Weeds, the Al-Ko IQ-7 is air over hydraulic (with its own compressor).



Laughto, It's too late to change the 12 pin plug at the moment, as the trailer is in the build phase. However, I now think I'll follow your suggestion and modify the trailer wiring to fit the existing plugs on the Disco once I get it home.


Black is standard au large 7 pin. The White has the centre pin reversed - as mentioned you have time get a white plug from eBay. Read up on brake controller install thread and all will be good.

[Hugh Jars]

I've ordered a couple of those white plugs (1 spare) from the site you recommended, Graeme. Thanks.

Nod, I need a trigger wire in the 12 pin for the Redarc Manager 30 charger system that is now standard (but not the breakaway wire, as you wrote). I'll run one from the rear power outlet to do that (unless there is one already in either of the existing trailer sockets). It needs to be ignition switched.

I'm about half way through the install thread, and have come to the conclusion that I need at least 1 resistor in an indicator circuit (preferably both sides) to activate the trailer functions on the Disco. I also need a diode to prevent backfeed in the brake controller circuit. Some excellent information here.

Meanwhile, more phone calls tomorrow to Redarc and Al-Ko. :D

[LandyAndy]

Your spare one will come in handy for pluging a battery charger in rather than opening the bonnet;););););)
Andrew

[DI5CO]

[QUOTE=

I'm about half way through the install thread, and have come to the conclusion that I need at least 1 resistor in an indicator circuit (preferably both sides) to activate the trailer functions on the Disco. I also need a diode to prevent backfeed in the brake controller circuit. [/QUOTE]



I got this installed in the car (I can tow different trailers for work) with a little switch next to the 12v socket to turn it on or off.
Or if you've only go the 1 trailer you tow, then just install it on the drawbar.

http://www.linearelectronicdesign.com

[Nod]

Right got it ... I have the lithium's so didn't need it.

Pin 6 of the white plug is switched (15 Amps).

[laughto]

Right got it ... I have the lithium's so didn't need it.

Pin 6 of the white plug is switched (15 Amps).

Also bear in mind that the pin out diagram for the 2 sockets which has been published on the forum does not directly reflect the ones on the back of your D4. These will be about 90 degrees offset to the diagram.

Sent from my SM-T810 using AULRO mobile app

[Hugh Jars]

Thanks Laughto. I always check pinouts with a multimeter, but that would've been confusing :D

Nod, I'm getting 330A Lithiums as well. Damn CPAP machines!!

[Milton477]

Get a white plug from our ebay for under $6 and don't have any confusion.

You wouldn't by any chance have a link to this plug on ebay? I have tried but am obviously looking for the wrong thing.
Thanks

[Grentarc]

You wouldn't by any chance have a link to this plug on ebay? I have tried but am obviously looking for the wrong thing.
Thanks http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/371673623330
Search for 12S plug

[Graeme]

Also bear in mind that the pin out diagram for the 2 sockets which has been published on the forum does not directly reflect the ones on the back of your D4. These will be about 90 degrees offset to the diagram.Only the apparent position - the numbered positions are correct.

[Meken]

Only the apparent position - the numbered positions are correct.


So just turn your head to the side - it'll all make sense

[Nod]

I have 300AH also.... definitely no switch wire to the Redarc 30 Manager.... as there isn't one. The lithium's are an EnerDrive system with mains charger and DCDC charger (feed from the solar and Anderson plug).

I'm glad that we got the lithiums... though the thing that I didn't understand is that you cannot back feed the Traxide/Yellow Top in the D4 directly from the lithiums without another DCDC.... my original idea was to parallel all the batteries (which you can do if you have AGMs).... still deciding what I'm going to do long-term (want to understand how much power I have in winter/lousy weather/trees, if I need a portable panel as well). At the moment I can't have the trailer solar panels charge the car second battery (if running a second fridge in the car). (I do know that in summer I'm normally fully recharged by 1pm). I occasionally run a separate (borrowed) 120W solar panel plugged into the D4 Anderson if not planning on running the D4 for a few days. Could run a 12V cable from the trailer directly to the fridge... but not my idea of a great solution (for lots of reasons).

The other thing that I discovered is that I cannot plug the (borrowed) 120W solar into the trailer Anderson as the MPPT regulator is looking for a battery (not the front-end of a DCDC charger) so will not turn on... so if I buy a panel I need a "dumber" regulator. I cannot take the MPPT direct to the lithiums as it does not support them. I possibly could wire the solar panel direct to a second input on the trailer DCDC solar inputs... but have not researched this yet.

So, to get additional charge into the trailer at the moment, I connect to the D4 Anderson (before 10am)... then I use the external solar to re-charge the D4.

[Tombie]

That would drive me mad!!!

[drivesafe]

Hi Nod, the reason the lead acid batteries in your D4 can not be paralleled to the lithiums is because lead acid batteries have a fully charged voltage of 12.75v max, while the lithiums have a constant 13.2v.

So if you parallel the lithiums in your trailer/caravan with the two lead acid batteries in your D4, when your motor is off, the lithiums would continually discharge back into the lead acid batteries, until the lithiums went flat.

Not a good move.

Next, if you set your solar regulator to a Gel setting, something like 14.4 bulk and 13.2 to 13.6v float, you can safely and very effectively charge your lithium batteries.

If you ever had the need to charge your D4 batteries from the lithium batteries, the simplest way is with a small 12v to 240v inverter and a small battery charge, as most people will usually have something like this on hand for charging phone and/or camera batteries or to charge and run a laptop.

Power the inverter from the lithium batteries, the run a standard 240vac extension lead to the charger, which can be plugged into the Anderson plug at the rear of your D4.

[drivesafe]

Hi Hugh, if you were to discharge your 330Ah of lithium batteries down to where the BMS would disconect, you will need to replace 264Ah of used capacity and your 30 DC/DC will need around 10 hours of constant driving to do that.

A 30 amp unit is just not big enough if you plan to do a lot of free camping and then recharge while driving. f you have not committed to the Redarc Manager 30, here is a suggestion that will give you a far better setup, for a lot less money.

This package setup will recharge your batteries in way less than half the time the 30 amp unit can and again, the package cost less.

I deal with a company who have a package deal on the following kit.

1 x 60A PCU Mains Charger $950.95

1 x BB1260 DC/DC Charger $630.26

1 x Midnite Brat 30A PWM solar Reg $195.00

That's a total of $1775.76 to give the following potential charging:

DC/DC + solar* up to 90A input

Mains +Solar up to 90A input

This kit it is being offered for $1500.00 including GST and Delivery

If you, or anyone else is interested, drop me a PM and I will give you the contact details.

[Milton477]

Thanks for that info Drivesafe. No rush to upgrade to lithium on my van then.

[Hugh Jars]

Thanks for the valuable info, Drivesafe. Unfortunately the camper is midway through construction, so I'm committed to the existing setup.

I don't plan to run the batteries down that far (although it's feasible). (My emergency backup is a Honda EU-10i). I may look at the DC/DC and solar a little down the track after I get some experience with the camper and an idea of my average daily power usage.

Gidday Nod, my system is a little different to yours, I think. AOR have changed a few features since the original Enerdrive setup. I've been advised I need the 12v ignition wire with mine. It will also have a second Anderson plug on the drawbar to back-feed from the Manager 30 (not the batteries) to the tow vehicle, but only functions once the lithiums are fully charged. So, being sourced from the charger, I believe it should work with the Traxide (assuming the charging profile is correct). I will have to find this out. I suspect the profile will be the same as that going to the camper batteries (lithium).

[Hugh Jars]

I had a chat with the Al-Ko and Redarc Technical Departments the other day. Of course there is conflicting info from both.

Al-Ko: (Based on getting the van registered in NSW through Blue-Slip) - NSW requires a visual or aural indication of breakaway status (either battery state, or in the case of the IQ-7, trailer connected). That's achieved on the P3 only by the 'trailer not connected' warning.
He advised the TowPro Elite has no such indication, and it may be difficult to get the van registered without it.
He stated that there have been reports of intermittent lockups of brakes with Tow-Pro's and they have not done any deep testing as yet.

Redarc: The first problem with the Tow-Pro Elite (now solved) was calibration. As long as the Tow-Pro has been either auto calibrated (no trailer), or manually (trailer with conventional brakes), there should be no problems.
Secondly - the Tow-Pro Elite may not detect the IQ-7 (similar problem to the Disco and LED lights). The solution in this case, is similar to the Disco - a 21w resistor between the blue brake controller wire and earth, fitted in the trailer harness.
Thirdly - Redarc does not currently have a solution to the NSW requirement for breakaway status. He said I would have to be looking at the LED in the Redarc controller knob to see it change colour (in acccordance with Redarc's colour code chart). He agreed that I could have a problem getting it registered in NSW without the breakaway status. He suggested I could fabricate something myself through the vacant pins on the 12-pin.

So, my conclusion is that the Redarc may be workable (with the resistor mod), but the Redarc is deficient (with the IQ-7 for NSW) in terms of breakaway monitoring. So it looks like I'll have to work with the P3 for the time being.

I think it's crazy that NSW needs breakaway monitoring for the IQ-7, because it doesn't need a battery to keep charged like conventional breakaways. Anyway, I think I'd have a lot more to worry about than looking for some alarm, should a breakaway happen.

[simmo1]

I thought that most of the brake safe monitoring is done separately from a brake controller. Two completely different systems. That is the way it is on my daughters vehicle. Tow pro for brakes and a separate monitoring light for the brakesafe

[drivesafe]

In NSW, if the trailer/caravan is over 2 tons, then it must have a Breakaway Battery Monitor on the battery and an indicator in the tow vehicle.

I manufacture a Wireless Breakaway Battery Monitor, it was the first wireless unit available in Australia and has been specifically approved by the NSW Minister for Roads.

A Breakaway Battery Monitor has nothing to do with indicating if a Breakaway has occurred.

The sole job of a Breakaway Battery Monitor is to indicate if the Breakaway Battery is in good condition and has the capacity/ability to maintain the brakes on the trailer/caravan for at least 15 minutes if a breakaway event occurs.

[Hugh Jars]

I think that the elephant in the room is the IQ-7 does not have/need a breakaway battery, as its inbuilt breakaway is triggered when the Anderson plug (where the IQ-7 gets its power from) is disconnected in such a situation. Therefore, a monitoring system is not needed (IMO) as there's nothing to monitor. But the NSW RMS apparently still wants some sort of indication in the cabin that the IQ-7 is connected. I checked out the standard, and all I could find is the requirement for a monitoring system for the breakaway battery.

[drivesafe]

Hi again Hugh and my apologies, I should have taken more notice of the fact you are getting a full hydraulic braking system ( no backup battery ).

[Hugh Jars]

That's okay Drivesafe. I was starting to get confused (well, more than I am) .

[Hugh Jars]

Traxide D4-5U ordered. That'll be my first job :)

[eddomak]

Hi everyone,
My Disco will come without roof rails. I would like to put roof bars (probably 3 to carry a kayak). I know Rhino has a kit for this, but does anyone else offer one of similar quality with the option of a basket when not carrying a kayak?

Hi & Welcome!

I saw most of the thread so far has been about the electrics, but in relation to your question above about bars & racks, Depending on the look you want, if you are carrying a long kayak, you might consider installing the long LR rails rather than the long + short sections of Rhino rails. The reason I say this is because if you are intending on having a third rack above the driver area anyway, then you might find sliding the racks along the LR long rail easier and more flexible in placement than the 2 sections of the Rhino option.

I only have the Rhino rails on the rear/higher of the roof, and put a single crossbar on the front/lower occasionally. For pictures, see this post (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-4/217271-third-roof-cross-bar-lower-section-roof.html#post2336286).

[Hugh Jars]

Thanks very much for the info, eddomak! Your info and thread is most helpful. I wasn't aware that the LR rails were available to retro-fit. Nevertheless, I live on the northside and just up the road from Artarmon, so I'll pop in to the place you recommended.
Thanks again!

[Hugh Jars]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/07/61.jpg
Picked it up on the 29th. SDV6 SE with Tech Pack & E-diff. Didn't really need any other factory options, so I'm pretty happy. It drives better than the HSE demo I tested.....

[eddomak]

Thanks very much for the info, eddomak! Your info and thread is most helpful. I wasn't aware that the LR rails were available to retro-fit. Nevertheless, I live on the northside and just up the road from Artarmon, so I'll pop in to the place you recommended.
Thanks again!
No worries - do a search on this forum for installing extended rails, and there should be some information there. You can buy the extended (or the short) rails on eBay in silver or black.

Artarmon roof rack world are awesome - they are not the cheapest (but not overpriced either), but their service is second to none. They have helped me on many things and given me free spare parts here and there to help out with some of my ideas. They are also open to trying to make your ideas work (eg my front cross bar).

[Hugh Jars]

Thanks eddomak. Will do. I don't mind paying for good service if it makes my life easier :)