Auto Box question ? Can you program the box ECU ?

[rob tilbury]

I don't like how the d2 td5 will kick down on a hill and the poor little diesel revs to 4000 ,
WHY there is no toque there ,, best stay at 3400 rpm and cruise up ,,,,
seems to happen an the slightest of rise ?

no wonder the poor boxes blow up they never know what gear they want to be in ,,,,up2 down 1 back up to 3rd then down again the only time it plays nice is over 80kph when locked up ??

must me a programming thing ?

[sierrafery]

IMO first of all better put new oil and filter in it to be ruled out and run a stall test to rule out a mechanical issue then if it passes the test think to ECU things, afaik the only thing you can do to the EAT ECU is to reset addaptive settings not to alter them, an engine management remap would be the good move if you want "cojones"

[justinc]

The other thing to check is the condition and output of the airflow meter. This helps calculate an engine load signal to the trans ecu basically. Shift points can be all over the show if it is out to lunch...

Jc ☺

[CU55TM Disco]

It is a stupid box, it really needs an extra gear or 2 to keep in the correct rev range. You eventually learn how to drive it to get it to behave, but it's unlike any auto I've ever driven, definitely not as good as a Jap box.

[PhilipA]

Funny you should not mention the fact that on hills at 60 kph plus the trans will lock up in third after a short time and not drop out until under 50.

On the flat it will lock up over 70kmh in third and drop out at 60kmh.

Even if you are in D it will do this. Maybe you are not allowing it the few seconds it needs.

If anything I find while towing my camper that it holds 3 lock too long causing speed loss, then it has to drop to second.
All in all I now find it as good a box as you could have with only 4 speeds as the locks provide 2 extra gear ratios.
It took me a long time to fully understand how it works but now that I know I find it adequate .
Regards Philip A

[rob tilbury]

new box new filter new oil ,,

[rob tilbury]

It is a stupid box, it really needs an extra gear or 2 to keep in the correct rev range. You eventually learn how to drive it to get it to behave, but it's unlike any auto I've ever driven, definitely not as good as a Jap box.


Our Tickford fairlane has the ZF4-HB22 and its crap also ,,,, up down ,,never knows what gear to be in ,,,

even a TH350 or a 727 toque flight 727 would have been a better box from the 70`s .
i had a 727 in a 245 ci inter scout was the smoothest box i have driven ,

I hope when i do a ECU remap it will help things out a bit ,,, yesterday went up the same hill 4 times at the same speed ,,
never the same gear

I remember seeing a gearbox aftermarker ECU some where ,,just cant remember where ,, maybe an ashcroft ??

[Pippin]

Funny you should not mention the fact that on hills at 60 kph plus the trans will lock up in third after a short time and not drop out until under 50.

On the flat it will lock up over 70kmh in third and drop out at 60kmh.

Even if you are in D it will do this. Maybe you are not allowing it the few seconds it needs.

If anything I find while towing my camper that it holds 3 lock too long causing speed loss, then it has to drop to second.
All in all I now find it as good a box as you could have with only 4 speeds as the locks provide 2 extra gear ratios.
It took me a long time to fully understand how it works but now that I know I find it adequate .
Regards Philip A

"Even if you are in D it will do this" I'm not sure whether this is true but certainly you get lock up in third when the gear shift is in third as you say. I agree it's a good box once you get to know it but I think it is important that all sensors etc are working correctly for it to perform well.
Nick

[twr7cx]

Since fitting the Ashcroft HD torque converter I find the automatic transmission on my TD5 to be great.

[rob tilbury]

It just can never make up its mind if it want to change into a gear that there is 4000 revs waiting or lock into a gear until the toque curve has dropped into the gutter and then un locks and has to go down 2 gears <<
There must be a better algorithm for the box to stay in the toque curve

[PhilipA]

have been a better box from the 70`s .
i had a 727 in a 245 ci inter scout was the smoothest box i have driven ,

Ha ha!
Ever driven a RRC with a 727?
It takes about 50bhp to run which leaves about 5 to drive the car.
Slow has a whole new meaning.
Regards Philip A

[rob tilbury]

My international scout with a hot 354 cube with the 727 would scream we had mild cams headers 750 holly Double pumper dana transfer box 32 spline axles ,, i sold it to a bloke and said man this will bite if your not careful he hands me the money said in not a ###head and leaves ,,
Before he could transfer the car into his name my wife gets a visit from the police saying i have been a a accident and need to come identify me ,,,,,,

he made it 25k`s to forest road ,, left the rad hit a tree on the way home ,
Police said speedo was jammed on 190kph
road ran out ,,,
i shouldnt have said that this car will do 200+
his wife and her brother come around and blamed me for the crash ,,,,,

Not my fault /

[Fluids]

If you want to change the boxes shift points, pressures, lockup points you need to fit a "Compushift" ... See Ashcroft website.

I find the box ok but I select 3rd and allow sufficient time for lockup before the hill starts. In 4th when it unlocks and revs high it will quite often drop to 3rd for a bit, then lockup 3rd (with the stick in D)

3rd lockup is just above 70 (stick in 3rd) but if it's unlocked in 3rd reving up a hill and your under 70 sometimes it will lockup as said above at 55-60 ... Yes,sometimes it has a mind of its own :)

If it's hilly terrain I select the gear ... wish it would lockup in 2nd !!!

Sent by iPhone using two tin cans and Forum Runner

[rob tilbury]

"Compushift" Thats what i was after thanks

[sierrafery]

IMO that compushift is only for manual to auto conversions(see applications): http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/compushift/compushift.html

it might not work on a original auto which already has the engine ECU - transmission ECU communication through the CAN which has to work as it was conceived otherwise the engine management will be affected and even if you have good shifting strategy based on compushift the engine will be powerless or go to limp mode and you'll have the flashing M+S on all the time... for less than half of that money you can tune your auto as to run beautifull IMO

[strangy]

IMO that compushift is only for manual to auto conversions(see applications): Ashcroft Transmissions (http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/compushift/compushift.html)

it might not work on a original auto which already has the engine ECU - transmission ECU communication through the CAN which has to work as it was conceived otherwise the engine management will be affected and even if you have good shifting strategy based on compushift the engine will be powerless or go to limp mode and you'll have the flashing M+S on all the time... for less than half of that money you can tune your auto as to run beautifull IMO

Yep, but..
Tell the ECUs its Manual with Nanocom and then just wire up the compushift as per instructions for a Defender conversion.
No more M &S lights or limp modes.
But.. cruise control may have to be revisited, revised, etc. Id need to go back to RAVE for that one.
Theres' always a "but";) As Sierraferry said- dollars keep getting bigger. Id be making sure all was operating within normal pressures and in good condition first.
Sure you wanna keep playing Rob?

[rob tilbury]

Na ,,, was hoping it would catch fire so i got a couple of grand back ,,, so i could buy a 4x4 not a wire loom on wheels >

[geordiepride]

if your running higher boost gearchanges will also change as the ecu thinks its under more load


if your running 20 psi try bringing the boost down slightly I run 18 psi and to be a good happy medium while driving around town and hill approaches are nice as long as I don't allow to much boost


when torque converter locks up I feed power slowly and watch the boost gauge rise and my speedo will also rise ..if I go over 16 to 17 psi the gearbox then drops a gear even though my accealrator peddle isn't all the way down


to be honest there isn't much power difference at 20 psi and 18 psi but gear changes will change


I only run higher than 18 psi when off road

[rob tilbury]

Cheers will drop mine down to 18 and see ,,,,,
funny thing now the dry joint in the fuse box is fixed it changes better ,,,
It was like the shift points were never in the same rev on the same hill ,,,,,

fingers crossed the gremlin is dead !

[geordiepride]

with my d2 if the car isn't going to be driven for a day or 2 I disconnect the batts


I don't know if its a placebo affect but it must reset the transmission and it needs to learn again but gear changes are quicker and smoother but 6 months later its then it goes back to playing up and gear changes feel different so then I disconnect the batt over night


I was going to install a modified valve body inside the transmission or over haul mine but at the moment touch wood it drives nice

[rob tilbury]

I wonder ,, the trans ECU is it a learning type ,,,
if so in going to make a relay in line so when the car goes to sleep it disconects the ecu and makes it learn again ,,,,,

[geordiepride]

no good disabling power for a few hours you need time for the capacitors to discharge


a quick way is to disconnect both bat terminals and touch both positive and negative together this discharges all capacitors in the system


not only the transmission ecu but also the engine ecu

[rob tilbury]

When i checked the engine ecu for oil ingress the big cap`s in there were massive ,,
I have a master battery switch so may just turn off for a few days every now and then .

[geordiepride]

do you still have egr active ? oil is not conductive but carbon is.. when I changed my injector harness I also removed the rubber seals from the ecu plug... this may found funny but I wrapped one of my wifes fanny pads around the red plug this has soaked up all oil that was left in the system it was approx. a 6 month process and changed the fanny pads twice


the rubber seals need to be removed for this to work


don't throw them away they get installed once the ecu plugs are clean

[rob tilbury]

Thats a great idea ,, will try the pads ,,,, when i did the loom i put 200ml of metho in a coke bottle ,, im sure a pepsi bottle will be ok , and pushed the loom plug < engine end into the bottle and let the metho work its way thru the wires ,, only took till the morning and clear meth was coming out the red plug

then i blew out with a compressor and as you say
REMOVE THE GASKET
and then the rest of the meth and oil just drips out over time ,,, i also did the same a week later with no oil showing ,,,,
there is oil in the injector connectors but as they are not fluid tight i dont see a way to stop ,,,
I didnt have a new rocker gasket on hand so i have ordered a new one ,, :D

[rob tilbury]

oh forgot ,,, no EGR ,, am looking at a breather filter at the moment ,,anyone have a pref to a good one

[geordiepride]

I have never tried the metho trick


but I work with these issues all day at work pressure will always go to the weakest link


the capillary action works different ie hot cold hot cold


oil will always want to travel to cold once it gets into the ecu harness it then takes a detour.. I left my injector harness that long I also had oil coming from the MAF sensor I failed to mention this but I removed the seal and also rapped around a fanny pad on this also

[geordiepride]

as for the catch can on a breather system the only system I have seen work 100% is those found on Volvo trucks they use oil pressure to spin a spinner filter while breather gasses enter though another chamber


those cheap catch can with baffles will only catch about 50 to 60 %


a cheaper catch can with some wire wool installed catch about 60 %


other wise drop the breather straight to atmosphere = 100 %

[Pinelli]

For the most part I'm pretty happy with how it shifts, except that around town I stick it in third and it seems a lot happier.

I used to live about 15km outside of Proserpine, and driving home along the highway was a small hill, just far enough out of town that I reached it as the engine warmed up pretty much every day on the way home. As I would drive up the hill, the box would lock up in 4th, effectively going up a ratio or gear. The TD5 would drop revs in a very satisfactory way, and continue to power up the hill without needing even the slightest kick to keep going. Very nice :)

[geordiepride]

just to confirm


I was driving back from work today I was doing 100 kph convertor lock up I slowly start to press the acc peddle and got boost to sit at 10 psi my speed climbed up to 120 /130 KPH so I decided to press the peddle a little further got it to sit at 15 psi speedo climbed to 135 and kept pulling to 140 kph


any thing over 15 psi travelling at these speeds the torque convertor will unlock and then its just all revs ..it will hold the same speed some times drops off to 125 kph but engine just revs its ring out until you come off boost and allow the toque convertor to lock back up again


rob where do you have your boost gauge getting its reading from