4.4TDV8 take-off TC slip with van

[Graeme]

When moving off from a stand-still at not too slow a pace with our 2T van attached, the torque converter slips forever in 2nd then 3rd it seems until I get sick of it and use the up-shift paddle, which with slightly less throttle locks the TC whilst still in 3rd.

The van has LED lights so the vehicle didn't know the van was attached, so today I fitted load resistors to both blinkers but a short test didn't seem to be any different and the reversing sensors still sounded too. For starters, it needs to hang onto 1st longer.

How do other 4.4 TDV8's and their 8-speeds handle taking off with a load?

[CSBrisie]

Mine is fine Graeme....but it has had the ECU remap from Roo Systems ("Towing and Touring") and I don't know if that makes a difference?
cheers

[Graeme]

Thanks Chris. I expect that a remap would make it not comparable and a remap for towing even more so. Does your's hold 2000 or more rpm until well into 3rd gear, even without the van unless just creeping off the mark? Moving the van in stop-start traffic is most annoying.

The engine and gearbox software is at the latest levels that LR have released to the public but later versions could be available through a dealer. I realise that the diff ratio in these vehicles is very high and my oversize tyres make the ratio worse and the lower ratios in this early version of the gearbox are poorly spaced but there's no need for the TC to slip holding the engine at 2000 rpm or more.

[rar110]

I also put load resistors parallel on the camper trailer. It still doesn't recognise its there.

[Graeme]

Do you mean that the reversing sensors aren't disabled? I didn't try rock crawl to see if off-road height was automatically selected.

[rar110]

Nothing changes. It doesn't recognise there's a trailer connected.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Excuse my lack of knowledge,,
but theres no way to shift the 8 speed manually?

seems like the engine is overpowering the gearbox,,
believe it or not mine does a similar thing with the van on,,

[Graeme]

Manual up-shift is what I do to stop the TC slip but by doing so I have to keep manually shifting or hold the up-shift tab for several seconds to return to auto mode which apart from possibly up-shifting thereby dropping revs inappropriately low, finding the tab in traffic with the steering wheel turned often results in the down-shift being used. Manual shifting in traffic where turning is involved is not practical.

The TC slip is gearbox programming to prevent revs dropping low. Once a little speed is attained (maybe 30 kph?), lifting off the throttle will lock the TC then gently re-applying throttle will leave the TC locked but this procedure isn't suitable for use in traffic.

These engines have copious torque allowing quite brisk acceleration in 3rd gear away from side-street corners from 1000 rpm if the TC stays locked but sluggish acceleration once the TC unlocks unless given a boot-full. Towing a van exaggerates the TC slip.

[Graeme]

Torque converter unlock then slip has drastically reduced since gearbox adaptations were recently cleared. The TC now stays locked at low revs in 3rd (eg 1000 rpm on light or medium throttle) which seems to occur turning most street corners. I haven't had an opportunity to see if TC slip has reduced when accelerating in traffic let alone with the van attached.

[CSBrisie]

Thanks Chris. I expect that a remap would make it not comparable and a remap for towing even more so. Does your's hold 2000 or more rpm until well into 3rd gear, even without the van unless just creeping off the mark? Moving the van in stop-start traffic is most annoying.

The engine and gearbox software is at the latest levels that LR have released to the public but later versions could be available through a dealer. I realise that the diff ratio in these vehicles is very high and my oversize tyres make the ratio worse and the lower ratios in this early version of the gearbox are poorly spaced but there's no need for the TC to slip holding the engine at 2000 rpm or more.

Graeme, yes, mine is like yours - mine especially experiences T/c slip without the van. Most annoying at times.

[Graeme]

My son Justin's IIDTool did the job even though it's not licensed to my RRV as clearing adaptations is a service function on the tool. I didn't want to try my Faultmate which even though it's supposed to support MY10-12 RRV, it does not specifically support the 8-speed gbox. The 6-speed command may have worked but Justin's tool does support the 8-speed on MY10-12 RRV.

Edit: Justin's IIDTool reports that most of my RRV's ecus are not at the latest level, with at least 2 later updates for each of the gearbox and ECM. I intend having the whole vehicle brought up to date in a few weeks although probably best to wait until the ediff is fitted to have it calibrated at the same time.

[rar110]

How do you tell if everything is up to date?

[Graeme]

The IIDTool has a function to list each ecu's installed s/w version and any later versions that have been released by LR.

[LRD414]

But they don't know what the later versions actually change/upgrade. I have queried Gap for my D4.

Scott

[Graeme]

Dealers, let alone GAP or BBS, generally don't know what changes have been implemented unless a particular upgrade is required to overcome a known problem (eg 3.0 going into permanent limp mode using CC and towing when hot) and even then they don't know what else has been affected. Feed-back from owners who have diagnostic tools can shed some light with before and after differences and versions, as I could through the various D4 gbox s/w upgrades such as manual up/down-shift changing it from a temporary manual mode as built to only a request that could immediately be over-ridden by the TCM or the several CC improvements that eventually would cut fuel completely on excessive over-run.

I want the latest updates on the basis that LR have made improvements, hopefully preventing CC from hanging onto top gear until revs get too low then dropping up to 4 gears when finally changing down and the unnecessary TC slip during take-off from a stand-still, as well as any other improvements for ABS, instrument cluster, touch-screen, BCU power management etc.

[Grentarc]

Dealers, let alone GAP or BBS, generally don't know what changes have been implemented unless a particular upgrade is required to overcome a known problem (eg 3.0 going into permanent limp mode using CC and towing when hot) and even then they don't know what else has been affected. Feed-back from owners who have diagnostic tools can shed some light with before and after differences and versions, as I could through the various D4 gbox s/w upgrades such as manual up/down-shift changing it from a temporary manual mode as built to only a request that could immediately be over-ridden by the TCM or the several CC improvements that eventually would cut fuel completely on excessive over-run.


An indication of this was when I updated my Terrain Response software, Sand Mode is a lot less violent and more controlled, then smooth accelleration when taking off compared to before, where it was violent and jerking.

[Graeme]

I found the D4's original sand mode much too aggressive and used fuel unnecessarily for most sand use, preferring no special programs unless a particularly gnarly-looking climb was ahead. It sounds like a worthwhile improvement.

[Graeme]

I haven't had an opportunity to see if TC slip has reduced when accelerating in traffic let alone with the van attached.TC slip is no longer a problem even with the van attached.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Sounds good Graeme :cool:
I wonder what they changed?
engine parameters?
gearbox settings?

[Graeme]

Only had the gearbox adaptations cleared.

[Rextheute]

Thank You Graeme !
This thread interests me as my ( sport ) does the limp mode thing - towing - cruise control . I have asked Land Rover re an update .
They want $400 to 'upgrade the software ' which I will do when it has its service .
Also will do a gearbox oil/filter change - and the diffs , transfer case oils . At least then I will know it's been done recently .

Will update when done - otherwise the gearbox could be worn out ......:eek:

[CSBrisie]

The IIDTool has a function to list each ecu's installed s/w version and any later versions that have been released by LR.

Graeme, interested in this as I have an IID Tool. Is this under "ECU Info" menu, then "clear gearbox adaptations"?
cheers

[Grentarc]

Graeme, interested in this as I have an IID Tool. Is this under "ECU Info" menu, then "clear gearbox adaptations"?
cheers
Chris - the info as to whether your ECMs are up to date or not is under that menu, but the clear adaptations is (from memory) under service items menu.

[CSBrisie]

Thanks Justin...so how do I know if they are up to date? I see a whole lot of info for every individual (32 odd!) ECU...?

[Grentarc]

Here is an example - where it says "New" in yellow that means a new version of software is available

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/01/525.jpg

[CSBrisie]

Thanks heaps 😊

[rar110]

Do then pay GAP for the update?

[Grentarc]

Do then pay GAP for the update?
Yes, you can do it that way at ?25 per module. Or you can talk to a dealer and see if they will do a bunch at a set price which may work out cheaper

[CSBrisie]

Mine didn't seem, to have any new at all - nothing in yellow.

[Grentarc]

Mine didn't seem, to have any new at all - nothing in yellow.
Lucky you!
Here's my list
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/01/509.jpg

I recently updated my Terrain Response to the latest version so that's one - now I wonder if the HVAC buttons software update is worthwhile?

[CSBrisie]

No, my mistake. I attached my IID tool to my laptop this morning and realised it was out of date - downloaded new software from GAP. Then reattached to the car and hey presto - pagers of yellow!!! Looks like a trip to Stealer to get all the new software. Thanks again Justin and Graeme, this has been most useful.
cheers!!!

[Graeme]

Don't let them touch your remap!

[rar110]

No, my mistake. I attached my IID tool to my laptop this morning and realised it was out of date - downloaded new software from GAP. Then reattached to the car and hey presto - pagers of yellow!!! Looks like a trip to Stealer to get all the new software. Thanks again Justin and Graeme, this has been most useful.
cheers!!!


Let us know what Austral charge for the update.