Puma CDL Disengaging

[davisshannon]

I recently used the CDL in my Puma 90 for the first time. This was at a Land Rover Experience day.

Getting into low range was a bit tough, having to engage 2nd, go back to neutral, and then it would slide into low. Is this normal?

Pushing over to engage the CDL didn't really feel like it was engaging much even though the dash light was on. After a bit I'd notice the going was a bit more tough and I'd look to see the CDL light was now off. One of the instructors said to bring it back to the dealer and that it was probably a simple adjustment.

The closest time the dealer could see it is Sept. 14th. I'm wondering if this is a relatively easy DIY adjustment? I've read some others talking about pulling up the rubber boot to see about sound deadening getting in the way, but the Puma boot seems to be a single piece for both the gearbox and transfer case and would need the rubber floor removed first.

Any tips/ideas?

Thanks

[debruiser]

I had a similar problem, took it back to the dealer and they replaced the switch for the dash light... seemed better, although on my last trip away I found the light going out again, and then had to re-engage the CDL, so I don't really think the problem is fixed... but i'm out of warranty now so might be tough getting much out of them.

[ozy013]

I had similar issues a couple of years back, in regards to the CDL.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/205009-puma-diff-lock-adjustment.html

If you get a chance, jack up one front wheel, then engage the CDL. If the wheel locks but the light doesn't illuminate, then your switch maybe faulty.

If the wheel doesn't lock then some adjustment needs to be made to the lever mechanism on the transfer case. Sometimes it just requires lubrication, and more use. I think you said it was the first time you'd tried to engage the CDL, was it also the first time you'd tried low range?

The switch and lever can be accessed by removing the cubby box, and the plate underneath. You can also reach it from underneath, but it's easier to see what your doing from above.

[Jan]

After traveling some distance on poor gravel roads the diff lock lever would move to the right and then unlock. I now use an elastic band connected to the steel underneath the passenger seat and the lever and it stays put rather well.

[Rolly]

I've recently returned from Cape York trip where CDL was engaged 90% of the time.
It was always slipping out......very annoying.
Post above recommends elastic to hold across. I'll try that!

[davisshannon]

I saw someone had luck with Lance Dixon service fixing this back in 2012. I've booked them in next month. Hopefully they can fix it up pretty easily. I'll report back once I get it looked at.

[ProjectDirector]

Had the same issue for 3 years and been back 4 times and couldn't get it right. Final and fifth time they replaced a linkage which didn't fix it but after I complained to the service manager he put on his "most experienced" mechanic that replaced a spring and problem fixed. I don't know what spring but I seem to think it must hold tension to keep lever from disengaging.
Another stupid defender design.

[loneranger]

I have this problem with mine as well. So far they've looked at it 3 times. The first time they said 2 washers had been put in the wrong places. The last 2 times they've said nothing is wrong. Its going back in soon for some other warranty issues so I'll put it back on the list.

[DazzaTD5]

You will generally find if you hold the diff lock shift lever to the left as you move it will engage correctly as ive mentioned here:

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/236804-warranty-about-expire-clutch-rattles-adapter-shaft-door-servo-post2552604.html#post2552604

Regards
Daz

[tact]

Had similar issues with my MY2013 defender. Moving out of lock and not noticing until stuck. Annoying.

LR did some adjustment to linkages that seems to have fixed it.

Have to take care to ensure it locks properly in the first place. (Holding the lever in lock position whilst moving for a little while after the light comes up). Rarely sneaks unlocked now.
(Giving it a lot more use may have been a factor too)

[rgty_kmj]

I have similar issues on my 2012 110. Sometimes it doesn't feel like the lever is engaged properly. If this happens I climb under neath and pull the selector across to the right which seems to do the trick but it is annoying.

The guy at the garage says it can't really be adjusted.

Kerry

[Col 110]

Getting into low range was a bit tough, having to engage 2nd, go back to neutral, and then it would slide into low. Is this normal?

[SNIP]

Yep - when I got the vehicle (new) I found getting into low range was a bit tough - and the technique of slightly engaging 2nd and holding the pressure as you go back to neutral helps it slide into low.

I have found the more I use low range the easier it is - I have now had a number of trips using low range and it goes in much easier.

I have had issues with the CDL not disengaging - but that seems to have improved the more I use it.

[DazzaTD5]

When you move the shifter for either the range selector or the diff lock, you are only moving the selector fork, which is spring loaded (inside the transfer case) once the vehicle has some forward movement, the teeth align and the engagement happens. by design it cant "engage" instantly.

Its not a bad design, its simply an old design, the only thing that has essentially changed on the Defender TDCi is the pretty ford style gear shifter/knob.

The diff lock linkage is a long vertical flat bar with the pivot point fairly high so the in cab shifter moves a small amount but throws the shift linkage on top of the diff lock housing quite far, unfortunately it doesnt give the shifter a positive feel, hence why people are having issues.

The same transfer case that was used in the Discovery 2 didnt suffer these "shift issues" as it used two cables which gave the shift a very positive feel.

But as I've already mentioned, if owners continue to hold the shifter in position for say a couple of metres while moving forward it will engage correctly.

Regards
Daz

[tact]

The diff lock linkage is a long vertical flat bar with the pivot point fairly high so the in cab shifter moves a small amount but throws the shift linkage on top of the diff lock housing quite far, unfortunately it doesnt give the shifter a positive feel, hence why people are having issues.

[...]
But as I've already mentioned, if owners continue to hold the shifter in position for say a couple of metres while moving forward it will engage correctly.

Regards
Daz

Doesn't always work that way, Daz. I understood the vague feel and spring loaded selector etc... Many were the times I have held the shift lever to the lock position, saw the lock light illuminate, and held it there several metres, straight, over logs, turns left and right up hill and down dale.... Then release the lever. Between 30seconds and 5min later I'd notice the light off - usually after getting stuck in an easy obstacle because it had unlocked.

Drove me nuts.

After complaint and "adjustment" by LRM it's much better.

[DazzaTD5]

Some more info...

The last few transfer cases out of Defender TDCi models I've been playing around with the detent on the CDL (centre diff lock) to get a more positive engagement, that hopefully doesnt allow the shift to disengage the CDL.

The obvious thought is to simply stretch the detent spring, but it was a method I didnt wanted to do, as there really is no way of controlling the stretch. So I've been putting a small spring washer (not for the spring action but more for the thickness, about 2 - 3mm, to max of 4mm) under the detent retaining screw.

Unlike earlier models, the detent ball, spring and bolt on a Defender TDCi model is very easy to get at. Simply get under the Defender look at the front nose of the transfer case where the front prop shaft flange is and then look towards the centre of the vehicle slightly and the allen key retaining bolt will be visible on the nose cone. It is basically above the exhaust (yes the exhaust will make is slightly harder to get at, but not by much.

Remove the allen key bolt, take care as there is a small (detent) spring behind it and a (detent) metal ball, dont loose either, both the spring and ball may well stay in place. Removing the spring will give you an idea of the very small washer/spacer that is required, as it needs to fit loosely in the threaded hole.

To note:
*So in order of install into hole is: detent ball, detent spring, your washer/spacer, retaining bolt.
*Ensure the diameter of the washer/spacer is small enough that it wont get stuck in the hole.
*Dont go any thicker than a MAX 4MM, or the selector shaft wont slide.
*Using a washer (that has a hole in it) allows for easy removal if needed.


See the pictures and it will become more obvious
*First pic is the retaining allen key bolt.
*Second pic is the detent spring (left) and washer/spacer (right)

The alternative to this option is stiffen up the shifter assembly, but I havent looked at this yet.

Regards
Daz

[ian4002000]

Whilst driving my 130 recently I had the diff lock disengage itself, and after much thought as to why it had done this as it hasn't done it often, I realised I had put the diff lock in whilst under load and therefore the gear hadn't engaged correctly. I now decelerate after engaging the diff lock and have had no further problems.


Ian
Bittern

[davisshannon]

Got the Defender back from Lance Dixon. They did their custom transfer lever modification under warranty and the CDL engagement is completely fixed now. Engaging diff lock has a very positive feel and it doesn't want to pop out any longer. If anyone else is having the same issue I highly recommend going in to see the Lance Dixon service people about it.

[D90 orkney]

Some more info...

The last few transfer cases out of Defender TDCi models I've been playing around with the detent on the CDL (centre diff lock) to get a more positive engagement, that hopefully doesnt allow the shift to disengage the CDL.

The obvious thought is to simply stretch the detent spring, but it was a method I didnt wanted to do, as there really is no way of controlling the stretch. So I've been putting a small spring washer (not for the spring action but more for the thickness, about 2 - 3mm, to max of 4mm) under the detent retaining screw.

Unlike earlier models, the detent ball, spring and bolt on a Defender TDCi model is very easy to get at. Simply get under the Defender look at the front nose of the transfer case where the front prop shaft flange is and then look towards the centre of the vehicle slightly and the allen key retaining bolt will be visible on the nose cone. It is basically above the exhaust (yes the exhaust will make is slightly harder to get at, but not by much.

Remove the allen key bolt, take care as there is a small (detent) spring behind it and a (detent) metal ball, dont loose either, both the spring and ball may well stay in place. Removing the spring will give you an idea of the very small washer/spacer that is required, as it needs to fit loosely in the threaded hole.

To note:
*So in order of install into hole is: detent ball, detent spring, your washer/spacer, retaining bolt.
*Ensure the diameter of the washer/spacer is small enough that it wont get stuck in the hole.
*Dont go any thicker than a MAX 4MM, or the selector shaft wont slide.
*Using a washer (that has a hole in it) allows for easy removal if needed.


See the pictures and it will become more obvious
*First pic is the retaining allen key bolt.
*Second pic is the detent spring (left) and washer/spacer (right)

The alternative to this option is stiffen up the shifter assembly, but I havent looked at this yet.

Regards
Daz

so I’ve been having issues with my front and rear air lockers not working properly when put under strain. It’s like as if when things get tough they won’t work. Everything on the lockers side of things has been tested and works flawlessly. So I did a massive rock wall climb and as I’m doing this the rear locker stops working. In fact I had no drive at all to the rear. After I finally got up I noticed my CDL was not engaged. And after noticing that I think my issues with front and rear lockers is that the CDL disengages itself somehow and I think this spring may be the cause. Daz, have you had success with the washer mod?

[jon3950]

On my last service I finally had this issue resolved. I had a new housing assembly installed under warranty. This is a known fault and there is now a service action SSM72873 out on it.

That’s all the detail I have but it may be worth pursuing. My Christmas trip was the first time in 2 years of ownership that the difflock has actually stayed locked in.

Cheers,
Jon

[D90 orkney]

On my last service I finally had this issue resolved. I had a new housing assembly installed under warranty. This is a known fault and there is now a service action SSM72873 out on it.

That’s all the detail I have but it may be worth pursuing. My Christmas trip was the first time in 2 years of ownership that the difflock has actually stayed locked in.

Cheers,
Jon

Im out of warranty. So they have a recall on it? So good that it fixed the problem for you. It’s weird for me as I never had this problem up until a few months ago. I got the washer mod done yesterday so I’ll find out next harder trip out if this is the fix

[Neill675]

Im out of warranty. So they have a recall on it? So good that it fixed the problem for you. It’s weird for me as I never had this problem up until a few months ago. I got the washer mod done yesterday so I’ll find out next harder trip out if this is the fix

Hi just wondering if ur washer mod worked I’m having the same problem it’s starting to do my head in.
Cheers

[rgty_kmj]

Hi,

In reply to Dazza's post (#15 this thread - 31st July 2016) about inserting a 3-4mm washer in detent recess.

I tried this today on my 2012 110 with a 3.7 mm thick M5 nut and it sort of made things a small bit better but it still is disengaging diff lock after a minute or so.
Though I must say it was really easy to do. All you need is a 6mm allen key.

I have also tried service action SSM72873 (see threadTransfer lever not holding (https://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/143384-transfer-lever-not-holding-2.html))
and this hasn't worked either. Not really sure what to try next.

Kerry.

[rgty_kmj]

I've just found this after googling SSM72873

Bas Remaps - SSM72873
Defender / L316
L316 - Transfer Case... | Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/BASREMAPS/photos/a.765419983529638/1143287735742859/'type=1&theater)
and click on see more.

There is some detail about the problem and the "supposed" solution to the diff lock disengaging.

Kerry