How much does my D4 weigh

[wbowner]

Hi
I hope some one can help.

I am trying to work out the weights of my D4 but find the hand book doco a bit ambiguous.

I have a 2014 TDV6 with 5 seats.
I have had fitted (the biggies)
Kaymar rear bar with a single SWC
Mitch Hitch
Traxide dual battery
LRA 108l aux tank

Has any one worked out weights of the above configuration

I am trying to work out my tow ball weight and axle load if possible and see if I am to heavy to drive the car or not.

As per the doco the tow ball weight max starts at 150kg and goes up to a max of 350kg but this requires a similar reduction in the GVM (= 3240kg I think)

As mentioned for a 5 seater 2014 D4 with air suspension the doco is a bit unclear.

Thanks for any help,
Richard

[plusnq]

I have a similar config (2013 HSE)without the Kaymar rear bar. With roof box, two spares, traxide, bullbar, winch, driving lights, fridge and fridge box, sliders and under body protection mine came in at 3100kg with the driver when I weighed it before we went to the Cape. You are best to put it over the scales if you are concerned.

Edit. Forgot the Ultimate Camper was attached so probably take 130kg off that number. Here is the photo at the scales

[AnD3rew]

90% of modified Discoveries with a family inside and a camping trip worth of stuff in the back will be overweight, 100% with a significant trailer on behind as well.

[morpheus]

I have a 2006 TDV6 HSE (7 seats) with all of the accessories you have listed plus a safari snorkel and the Landrover Front Bar (the rubber one). I weighed my car a few years back after a tip run and was a bit shocked as it tipped the scales at 2.8tonnes..

[BobD]

Easy to weigh it but my 2010 SE 3.0l (SDV6) with Kaymar bar, ECB bull bar, Traxide, 110l long range tank, snorkel, Mitch Hitch, GOE compressor cover, half full D4 main tank, empty LR tank is 2740 kg. Yours would probably be around 100kg lighter with no bull bar and no rear seats.

[wbowner]

I have been hunting around and found a few things. My thinking may not be correct though

Weights (based on what I have found in the forum and else where

Kaymar rear bar with a single SWC
Weight of bar + SWC is 78kg

You need to offset old bumper (20kg)
I have a 5 seater D4 so can take off 3rd row weight (75kg)
Given these then the should not be any additional weight from adding the bar to a normal 7 seater


Mitch Hitch


Similar weight to the old LR hitch

Traxide dual battery

Around 35kg

LRA 108l aux tank

Tank is 42kg
100l fuel = 90kg
Total 132kg

If the above thinking is correct I have a net gain of around 165kg


Big assumption here. The doco states the GVW is 3240 (or is it 3260) for both 5 and 7 seaters and the kerb weight for a 7 seater is 2558 so mine would be 2558 - 75 = 2483 (i.e. a payload of 757kg)

[weeds]

Drive over a weigh bridge.....it's the only way you will actually know.

[Bytemrk]

Drive over a weigh bridge.....it's the only way you will actually know.

X 2

Local Tip will often do it for you....

[wbowner]

Agree about weigh bridge but still worth juggling figures.


To summarise my figures above:-

1. I should have a payload of 757kg (as have no 3 row seats)
2. My net payload (after main accessories) is
757
- 78 (kaymar bar)
+ 20 (old bumper bar)
- 0 (mitch hitch as same as LR hitch)
- 35 (dual battery)
- 132 (aux tank + 100l fuel)
Oops forgot the snorkel.



= 537kg to play with

So I should fit with my wife plus a few other extras.

Richard

[wbowner]

Easy to weigh it but my 2010 SE 3.0l (SDV6) with Kaymar bar, ECB bull bar, Traxide, 110l long range tank, snorkel, Mitch Hitch, GOE compressor cover, half full D4 main tank, empty LR tank is 2740 kg. Yours would probably be around 100kg lighter with no bull bar and no rear seats.

Bob,
I think you may be right there. I forgot to add I have a snorkel as well.



Richard

[wbowner]

Went over a weigh bridge at the local tip today and got a bit of a shock.

It came in as 3.08 (I am assuming tonne).


Before I went in I filled up both tanks (so about 190l).
I was in the car 110kg :)
I have most of my tools in the car (which I normally take with me)
I have also a false floor with a fridge slide on it (no fridge)

The van I have has a tow ball weight of 280kg (based on calculations). This means 130kg off the car GVM.

So what is missing when travelling.
wife
fridge
chairs (may put in the van)
maxtrax
second spare (may put this on the van)
Some other odds and sods

I would normally not travel with both tanks full but over all this is going to be very tight.

May have to ask the wife to run behind till I burn off some fuel or go on a diet.

Richard

[Grentarc]

or go on a diet.

Doing that will almost guarantee you a weight reduction as you would most likely end up travelling alone!

[Tombie]

Thought you may be in for a shock... Seems the weigh-bridge confirmed it.

Those rear bars are heavy, the one that comes off weighs almost nothing.

The LR tank is good for about 50kg...
False floor is 10+ kg
100l of diesel is closer to 96kg (0.96kg/l)

[wbowner]

Doing that will almost guarantee you a weight reduction as you would most likely end up travelling alone!

If that happens I would not have to go on a diet as I would be under the limit.

Richard

[wbowner]

Thought you may be in for a shock... Seems the weigh-bridge confirmed it.

Those rear bars are heavy, the one that comes off weighs almost nothing.

The LR tank is good for about 50kg...
False floor is 10+ kg
100l of diesel is closer to 96kg (0.96kg/l)

Yep they are heavy but as I do not have 3rd row seats I thought I had compensated for the heavier bar.

The tank is 43kg plus fuel.

I also have a snorkel and APT sliders installed.



It still seems higher than I wold expected given I don't have the 3rd row seats.
I look like I have added 500kg+ of my payload.
I guess it all adds up and I can't go back.

The car as is stands is OK and within limits. It comes down to when I tow a van.

The 150kg ball weight on these cars is very low. I know you can go to 350kg but
at the expense of the GVM.



Richard

[Tombie]

Puzzled where you are getting the ball weight information from..

GVW + 3.5t is the GCM.

Discovery 4 is one of the few vehicles that can hold everything.

Are you reading the "generic" Manual or the Australian Spec

[wbowner]

Tombie

The van I am getting has a gvm of 2500. So I am under the GCM.
I don't have the van yet.

The ball weight is calculated based on additions and stuff stored in the van.
The 280kg tow ball weight could vary either way depending on amount of stuff I take on the van.


Richard

[Tombie]

Agree. However the D4 is one of the vehicles where the Ball weigh does NOT need to be subtracted from the GVM

(If this has recently changed I will be greatly surprised)

Only requirement of ANY towing vehicle is to not exceed axle weights.

[weeds]

Agree. However the D4 is one of the vehicles where the Ball weigh does NOT need to be subtracted from the GVM

(If this has recently changed I will be greatly surprised)

Only requirement of ANY towing vehicle is to not exceed axle weights.



Does that mean that land rover under state GVM by taking into account max. tow ball weight?? Seems an odd way to go about it.

[plusnq]

Agree. However the D4 is one of the vehicles where the Ball weigh does NOT need to be subtracted from the GVM

(If this has recently changed I will be greatly surprised)

Only requirement of ANY towing vehicle is to not exceed axle weights.

Why? I don't understand this please.

[Milton477]

There has been some passionate discussion on a caravan forum about this issue. If what Tombie says is true, the D4 is unique & would be a HUGE plus over other tow vehicles.

[Milton477]

Found it:
Ball weight adds to payload - Unless you have a Land Rover Discovery - Caravaners Forum (http://caravanersforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=63084&hilit=discovery+4+manual)

[weeds]

Found it:

Ball weight adds to payload - Unless you have a Land Rover Discovery - Caravaners Forum (http://caravanersforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=63084&hilit=discovery+4+manual)



Well there you go.......I'll be damned

It would be an interesting thread on a caravan forum.........

[wbowner]

Agree. However the D4 is one of the vehicles where the Ball weigh does NOT need to be subtracted from the GVM

(If this has recently changed I will be greatly surprised)

Only requirement of ANY towing vehicle is to not exceed axle weights.

Tombie,
I may be reading it wrong but that is what it looked like to me. I think there is another thread on the forum which discusses it as well.

I will try and dig the doco out.

I went from what I read online and not my handbook, will go and check that.

I hope your are right

Richard

[Tombie]

Richard. One can only imagine how mine sits....

Will have to get it to the weigh bridge this week...

[wbowner]

Tombie
Have a read of page 78 of the manual

Under towing.

It says the ball weight is 150kg with a max of 250kg except in Australia were it can be 350kg if the gvm is reduced

Or that is how I read it.

Please show me I am wrong because I really want to be 😩


Richard

[Tombie]

Not looking promising there.. Looks like 100kg is gone for you with a 250kg down weight..

Don't feel too bad, LC fare much worse...

[wbowner]

Found it:
Ball weight adds to payload - Unless you have a Land Rover Discovery - Caravaners Forum (http://caravanersforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=63084&hilit=discovery+4+manual)

I have had a read of the above and just got lost

In the end it seems to be semantics

The handbook says the gvw should be reduced if you go beyond 150kg tow ball weight but some people say you can't alter the gvw or gvm and what it really means is that the payload is reduced even there is no mention of that in the handbook.

It appears to me either definition has the same result. Ie if you want a tow ball weight greater than 150kg and the vehicle weighs the 3240 which is the gvw then you have to reduce the weight accordingly.

I must admit explaining by saying the gvw is fixed at 3240 and that any tow ball weight greater than 150kg needs to come out of the payload may sound better.

I suspect the reason why LR explained it that way was it is just mathematics

Payload = gvw - kerb weight or something like that. Reducing gvw gives the result they want

May be not technically correct but it is LR after all.

Richard

[TerryO]

While I never ended up doing it I found at least one engineer here in NSW who would, after passing the various tests, increase the GVM of a D3/4. The cost was from memory about $1800. The bloke who does it is/was a member of this forum and lives in Orange.

The increase we discussed was in the range of approximately 250 kg. This was before I knew that you could buy heavy duty CV's and axles which should make a even bigger difference.

This doesn't allow you to tow more than 3.5 ton but it does allow you fit all the usual extra accessories many people want plus have a reasonable ball weight for towing a large van.

So guys, no need to leave the cook behind if you get the GVM increased. ... ;)

[wbowner]

Richard. One can only imagine how mine sits....

Will have to get it to the weigh bridge this week...

Yep it would be interesting to see.

It has been suggested to me is to go over again with
Me not in the car
Aux tank empty
All tools and non fixtures removed
Main rank say half full

Them back from there.

I will give it a go but as I am not traveling it will take awhile to use the full tanks

Richard

[Tombie]

LR Kerb weights are specified with...

Main tank full
Allowance for 75kg driver
All fluids

They are one of the only ones allowing for the driver and full fluids...

So if the book for example states kerb weight as 2750 it is minus 75 = 2675kg fully fuelled ready to drive.

[Bytemrk]

LR Kerb weights are specified with...

Main tank full
Allowance for 75kg driver
All fluids

They are one of the only ones allowing for the driver and full fluids...

So if the book for example states kerb weight as 2750 it is minus 75 = 2675kg fully fuelled ready to drive.


:angel: Seems they didn't talk to you or me before settling on a figure hey :D

[LandyAndy]

So we can have half a driver BFG:p:p:p:p:p:p
Cant speak of your dimensions Mark:):):):):):)
Andrew

[Tombie]

:angel: Seems they didn't talk to you or me before settling on a figure hey :D



Perhaps "Drivers left leg" [emoji41]

[LandyAndy]

Snap:):):):):):)
Still waiting for some info Mike;);););););)
Andrew

[BMKal]

:angel: Seems they didn't talk to you or me before settling on a figure hey :D

They must have been using me as an example. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/07/69.jpg (http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/facebook-smileys.html)

[wbowner]

The more I read on this stuff the more I get confused over what LR state.
The wording is confusing and misleading.

The fact they use different names for things does not help

I assume
Gross Train Weight = GCM = max weight of car and van fully loaded
Gross Vehicle Weight = GVM = max weight of vehicle fully loaded ( tow ball weight is another load and would have to be factored in when calculating the weight of your car)

Or does it

One thing that does confuse me is the bit in the recent LR handbooks about the 150kg tow ball limit restriction if you car is loaded to GVW. It is probably my reading of this but it implies that if you load your vehicle to GVW you can only then use a tow ball weight of 150kg. Which implies the GVW as stated does not include the tow ball weight. Which then implies the max weight of the car can be 3240 + 150 kg.


Or is it saying that you have loaded up your car with all your goodies and attached a van with a tow ball weight of 150kg all is ok as long as you the total load, including the tow ball weight, on the car does not exceed the GVW of 3240 and the total weight of the lot does not exceed the GCM i.e. gross train weight.

If that is true why do they rabbit on about the tow ball weight can be increased to 350kg if the GVW is reduced by 200kg. In effect are they not saying that the GVW is fixed at 3240 and that the tow ball weight is just another load that has to to be factored in with a max value of 350kg.

Eg if your car weighed 2900kg fully loaded except for the trailer being attached.
If the trailer has a tow ball weight of 300kg then the GVW of your car is 3200 and is OK as is under the max allowed GVW of 3240kg

How does this all relate for people who have a Mitch hitch.

Richard

[Tombie]

They must have been using me as an example. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/07/69.jpg (http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/facebook-smileys.html)



Your beard would weight that!!!

[TerryO]

Wbowner, I might be wrong but if my memory serves me well then the reference in the handbook of a max 150kg ball weight is for UK delivered cars. Australian delivered cars infact do have a 350kg ball weight limit.

[wbowner]

Wbowner, I might be wrong but if my memory serves me well then the reference in the handbook of a max 150kg ball weight is for UK delivered cars. Australian delivered cars infact do have a 350kg ball weight limit.

Yes but at a reduced gvm if read it right.
Ie if you have a 350kg ball weight then the gvm is 3240 - 200 = 3040 kg

I think.

Richard

[TerryO]

As I mentioned else where it is possible to get the GVM increased which would get rid of this problem, but it costs around $1800.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

:angel: Seems they didn't talk to you or me before settling on a figure hey :D
or even a settling figure,, :angel::wasntme::p

[wbowner]

High continuing on with my saga.

I am trying to calculate if I am GVM compliant when the van is connected. The wording in the handbook is very unclear to me.

Best to illustrate with an example.

GVM is 3240kg as quoted in the handbook
Car weighs 2700kg with no van attached (so OK)
The nose weight of the van is 350kg

Am I GVM compliant?

Continuing with the example

The LR hand book for D4 wording on GVM/GVW on p78 states I can have a nose weight of 350kg if I reduce my GVM accordingly

New GVM (for when connected to the van is ) 3040kg

Do I calculate my new weight as

as 2700 + 200 = 2900kg - which is GVM compliant or
as 2700 + 350 - 3050kg - which is not GVM compliant


No matter what the car would still weigh 3050kg when connected to the van

I know this may seem straight forward but I have had both options put to me.


Richard

[BobD]

Neither is correct. You are double counting the caravan weight as far as I can see. You either reduce the GVM by the caravan nose weight and then what is left is for other things as the caravan is taken into account, or you leave the GVM the same and add the ball weight to the vehicle weight. You don't do both.

[wbowner]

Neither is correct. You are double counting the caravan weight as far as I can see. You either reduce the GVM by the caravan nose weight and then what is left is for other things as the caravan is taken into account, or you leave the GVM the same and add the ball weight to the vehicle weight. You don't do both.

Bob
It is how you read the handbook I guess.

I understand what you say and hope you are right.
i don't see it as double dipping when I read it one way but I do when I read it as you have dOne.

The handbook specifically states the gvm is to be reduced.
But when you weigh the car it is going to weigh the same no matter which way you look at it.

If you get pulled over I am sure they want understand it either and will just refer to the placard in the car. This sort of supports what you say.

I guess the reduced gvm is to reduce the axle weight and may be the consideration here.

So to be legal and safe the following needs to be true I guess
1.Weight of car hitched or not hitched has to be <= 3240 (the gvm) regardless of the Noseweight - more a legal issue than safety within reason
2 The weight on the axles can not be exceed the maximum stated in the handbook - this is a safety as well as legal issue

Richard

[BobD]

Richard, there is no doubt about it. You don't allow for the nose weight twice. The manual is supposed to make it easier, not harder. You are thinking too much!!

[wbowner]

Richard, there is no doubt about it. You don't allow for the nose weight twice. The manual is supposed to make it easier, not harder. You are thinking too much!!

Bob
I reckon you are right.
The handbook goes out of its way to make it confusing about reducing GVMs with nose weight greater than 150kg. This is the bit I can't get my head around.

I will just take a simplistic view then.

The GVM is 3240 and can't be exceeded. This does not change even for nose weights greater than 150kg.
I can have a nose weight up to 350kg
I must not exceed the the maximum axle weights stated in the handbook

I had been trying to make sense of the handbook reference to reducing GVM if nose weight exceeds 150kg. Still can't but the above will do for now.

Thanks for your input
Richard

[Grentarc]

I think what the manual is getting at is the GVM rating doesn't change, you reduce your max cargo by 200 kg if you have a tow ball weight of 350 kg.
The D4 has a max combined weight of GVM (3240 kg) + 3500kg, which goes on tow ball weight of 150 kg. With a tow ball weight of 350 kg, you have GVM (3240 kg) - 200kg + 3500 kg as max combined weight.

[BobD]

Well put Justin.


This is where the D4 has an advantage over other cars as most reduce the payload by 350 kg for a ball weight of 350 kg. The D4 reduces it by 200 kg for a ball weight of 350 kg.

[wbowner]

It is unclear in the book and open to different interpretations, how you put it is a lot clearer. In the end as long as you don't exceed the magic values quoted when you weigh your gear I s what counts.


One good thing I guess if you got pulled over for a check is that you could give them the handbook to read. 😁

In reality they would go from the values(gvm and axle weights) on the plate.

Thanks for help.

Richard