3500kg ADR towbar

[rfurzer]

Second fit of the prototype. The production ones will allow refitting the pintle if desired (stiffeners to the sides instead of centre) and will have 2 bolts on each outrigger (the 6 holes on the prototype allowed us to find the best positions).

I plan on using a Hayman 21126 TBM

Any interest?

[Barefoot Dave]

Russell, couldn't tell from the photos; do the outriggers require ruling our have you outlawed existing holes to mount?
IE, what mods required for fitting?
Looks like an thoughtful design!

[Mick_Marsh]

Yep.
Any plans for the 6x6?

[rfurzer]

I had tried to upload the pics straight from my phone but they disappeared into the ether. Here's try no 2.

I have no plan for a 6x6 bar

The outriggers use 2x 12mm bolts each side. The engineer states that these holes do not affect the strength of the chassis rail. Currently the plan will be to either use a spreader plate on the other side of the rail vs a 16mm O/D spacer.

In terms of modification, I have an approved plan to increase the seating capacity to 8 (in my case by fitting a station-wagon body) and also to certify the GCM at 6700.

In Tas, seating at 9 or more needs a commercial bus level of compliance. Standard "county" seats and anchors easily meet the requirements for 8 or fewer.

There is NO certified standard GCM for the Perentie which has caused mucho confusion with some individuals saying that the "county" diesel GCM can probably be used (either 6700, 6900 or 7000kg depending on the data source). My engineer has calculated that 6700kg GCM (3500kg trailer weight) is safe with the Perentie chassis and the authority has agreed with the plan to modify along those lines.

We are interested in whether others might be interested in a tow bar- once an idea of volume is available then Aaron can indicate the price point

[Barefoot Dave]

Russell, by solving the lack of rating, I would expect that asking the same price as a commercial tow bar wouldn't be unreasonable.
I've had a few inquiries about tow rating.

[Dervish]

I'm very interested! I'll have to go have a crawl under my wagon to ensure the fuel tank leaves enough room for the bolts. I'm sure it will, I will have to remove the tank to fit though.

Edit: Two questions - Is there any chance the bar could be supplied galvanised?
Is there any chance the design of the towbar could be changed to allow for fitment of the pintle hook as well? I envisage this would mean duplicating the central vertical gusset and relocating to either side of the rear crossmember mounting surface, like on my current - very light duty - setup.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/07/59.jpg

[rfurzer]

Dervish

1 the plan is for production bars to allow refitting the pintle (see my first post).

2 I can see no problem with galvanising- I'll pass that on to Aaron.

[Dervish]

Dervish

1 the plan is for production bars to allow refitting the pintle (see my first post).

2 I can see no problem with galvanising- I'll pass that on to Aaron.

Apologies on the poor reading comprehension, I got excited :) I'm a definite yes.

[wpalmo]

Well done rfurzer. It looks very nicely put together and similar to my set up in some of your design. Very nice welding job too!

Below is the set up under my RFSV. I designed it so that there where no holes that needed to be drilled into the chassis as I didn't want to break the galvanising. I used M12 high tensile bolts and plates to clamp the rear support to the chassis. It works well by stopping any leverage that could be caused by the push and pull of a trailer by bracing the towbar back to the chassis. The pintal hitch can also be fitted and still maintain full rotation. I galvanised it all as well.

I have pulled my 2 ton trailer with it full of firewood and it is solid. My other main design criteria was that my 2 ton trailer sat nice and level on the ball which it does.

Have I read right that your set up has been ADR approved to 3500kg's?

Regards Warrick.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/07/45.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/GrxtzU)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/07/46.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Fyzsq8)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/07/47.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/GQ39Do)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/07/48.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/GSjnK8)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/07/49.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/GQ2x5Y)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/07/50.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Gsyf6Z)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/07/51.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/GXJGsu)

[rfurzer]

Yes Warwick, Aaron has the 3500kg ADR.

Your bar is very nice too!

[rathgar]

Yes Warwick, Aaron has the 3500kg ADR.

Your bar is very nice too!

Very good work and well done. I'd like to clarfify a few things,

Its great that your engineer has certified the bar at 3500kg. But unless the vehicle has been certified ( which yours obviously will be/has been) then the tow rating will be limited by the lower of the bar and vehicle. If you were to sell the bars commercially how do you/the engineer intend to certify each vehicle its fitted to? Can a type certification be done?

In one of your posts you stated that there was NO GCM for a perentie (which I agree with) how did you (or the engineer) esrablish this?

With your production design have you considered locating the receiver tube within the cross bar rather than underneath (as many 3500kg rated production bars are done for other vehicles)?

This would minimise the compromise to departure angle that you design has.

[rfurzer]

Rathgar

I'm not sure how a type certification would work (or if it's possible).

As for the GCM - there is no GCM currently existing and so you (and the authorities and insurers) have two choices -

1. Use the military recommendation for a 1200kg towed weight (would probably still need trailer brakes on civvy street) + 3200kg GVM = 4400kg as the "existing" GCM and then to engineer a mod for each vehicle (perhaps becoming easier with precedence).

or 2. Using data for a similar vehicle as per either the NVD or Operators manual - all of which allow a towed weight of 3500kg or greater (up to 4000kg for a 110 Isuzu "cab chassis").

I have chosen number 1 because it is rigorous and wasn't much extra effort as I was also changing the seating capacity and needed a mod plate anyway.

And for the hair-splitters - you need to consider the tow-ball down weight when you calculate the towing vehicle load capacity so GCM is actually less than 3200 + trailer weight.

If the receiver tube were higher then it would need to have more rear-wards overhang as (AFAIK) only the 21126 TBM gives 3500kg with a short shank that wont foul the spare. A longer overhang is detrimental in terms of towing dynamics. This design was the best compromise for my situation.

[rathgar]

Rathgar

I'm not sure how a type certification would work (or if it's possible).

As for the GCM - there is no GCM currently existing and so you (and the authorities and insurers) have two choices -

1. Use the military recommendation for a 1200kg towed weight (would probably still need trailer brakes on civvy street) + 3200kg GVM = 4400kg as the "existing" GCM and then to engineer a mod for each vehicle (perhaps becoming easier with precedence).

or 2. Using data for a similar vehicle as per either the NVD or Operators manual - all of which allow a towed weight of 3500kg or greater (up to 4000kg for a 110 Isuzu "cab chassis").

I have chosen number 1 because it is rigorous and wasn't much extra effort as I was also changing the seating capacity and needed a mod plate anyway.

And for the hair-splitters - you need to consider the tow-ball down weight when you calculate the towing vehicle load capacity so GCM is actually less than 3200 + trailer weight.

If the receiver tube were higher then it would need to have more rear-wards overhang as (AFAIK) only the 21126 TBM gives 3500kg with a short shank that wont foul the spare. A longer overhang is detrimental in terms of towing dynamics. This design was the best compromise for my situation.

Fair Enough good work but i don't think you've "cracked the towing nut" for the wider population. Even if you make and sell an ADR approved 3500kg towbar the vehicle may be the limiting factor in towed load depending on your interpretation of the rules. Personally I think there are more than the 2 options that you put forward.

And I'm not sure I agree with your comments about deducting ball weight from the GCM but then it comes down to whether your talking a GCM of 6700 or a maximum towed load of 3500kg.

[rfurzer]

The nut is hard to crack without a civvy NVD, which isn't going to happen.

Having an ADR towbar that is designed to suit the unique rear chassis is (IMHO) a big step in the right direction. There is no overseas sourced solution. A self-made setup or a modification of a bar from another vehicle would be illegal. The setups that only use the pintle mount without side elements might not be strong enough.

Without a mod plate stating a max towed weight, you might have uncertainty if pulled over by a transport inspector, but I'd actually suspect that they'd be satisfied with the compliance plate on the bar, a OneTen drivers handbook and the closest NVD on their system (ie a 3.9 diesel 110).

The time in which you might need the rigour of a mod plate (and therefore the indemnity of an engineer) is if you had a prang while towing. Perhaps ask your insurer what they require?

[rathgar]

The nut is hard to crack without a civvy NVD, which isn't going to happen.

Having an ADR towbar that is designed to suit the unique rear chassis is (IMHO) a big step in the right direction. There is no overseas sourced solution. A self-made setup or a modification of a bar from another vehicle would be illegal. The setups that only use the pintle mount without side elements might not be strong enough.

Without a mod plate stating a max towed weight, you might have uncertainty if pulled over by a transport inspector, but I'd actually suspect that they'd be satisfied with the compliance plate on the bar, a OneTen drivers handbook and the closest NVD on their system (ie a 3.9 diesel 110).

The time in which you might need the rigour of a mod plate (and therefore the indemnity of an engineer) is if you had a prang while towing. Perhaps ask your insurer what they require?

Well said

[rathgar]

I do find it amusing that there is a need to engineer a towbar when I can design, make and register a trailer (which I have dome) without the use of an engineer.

But I guess maybe as the manufacturer I take responsibility for what I have done. But it's most certainly a "legal" trailer.

[rfurzer]

Rulz iz rulz but. No need to make sense. We live in a land where you can't put a plug on an appliance. (I was given a scalectrix for xmas 1979 when we were in England and the plug came separate. I was 8.)

[rfurzer]

The prototype 3500kg bar. Subsequent ones will have a slightly different stiffener arrangement to allow the pintle to go back on.

Aaron (the certifying engineer) plans to join Aulro and will be keen to hear of any interest. The price point will be higher than an off-the-shelf bar for a mass produced vehicle.

[justinc]

The prototype 3500kg bar. Subsequent ones will have a slightly different stiffener arrangement to allow the pintle to go back on.

Aaron (the certifying engineer) plans to join Aulro and will be keen to hear of any interest. The price point will be higher than an off-the-shelf bar for a mass produced vehicle.

Thats great work! Where are you located in Tassie?

Jc

[JDNSW]

Just one comment - when did the requirement for an approved and placarded towbar come in? Certainly after my 1986 110 was built. And is it retrospective? Either in the sense of fitting a towbar today to a vehicle built before this date, or a towbar that was installed before that date. I think certainly not the second case, as it would have made illegal almost every towbar in existence then.

I suggest that for many Perenties, an approved and plated towbar is not actually required. But that does nothing to help with towing anything above 1200kg!

John

[rfurzer]

ADR 62 - https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2010C00153

"2.3.2. 1 July 2009 on all vehicles"

[rfurzer]

Justin C - North-west.

[JDNSW]

ADR 62 - https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2010C00153

"2.3.2. 1 July 2009 on all vehicles"

Reading the reference, although not absolutely clear, it would seem that this date refers to the date of manufacture of the vehicle. Which would, I think, exclude all Perenties.

John

[rfurzer]

I'm not a lawyer but I'd say that they introduced the rules during 2009 with NEW vehicles defined as after January 2009 but then ALSO including older vehicles (ie "all vehicles") after July. I agree 'tho that it might mean that "all vehicles" means models introduced before 1 Jan 2009 but manufactured after that date.

As before - I guess you'd need to ask your rego authority and your insurer how they would interpret the rule and what they require.

[Phil B]

Great work
Any idea of cost yet?
I'm really interested
PhilB

[rfurzer]

Great work
Any idea of cost yet?
I'm really interested
PhilB

Aaron, my engineer, is doing the marketing (as Hagar says "I got mine"). Chatting to him - he expects a cost higher than that for an off-the-shelf bar for a mass-produced vehicle.

He wants to join Aulro (and the FB Perentie group) rather than to field enquiries via me. Expect to hear from him on here soon.

[Phil B]

Thanks

[JDNSW]

I'm not a lawyer but I'd say that they introduced the rules during 2009 with NEW vehicles defined as after January 2009 but then ALSO including older vehicles (ie "all vehicles") after July. I agree 'tho that it might mean that "all vehicles" means models introduced before 1 Jan 2009 but manufactured after that date.

As before - I guess you'd need to ask your rego authority and your insurer how they would interpret the rule and what they require.

Yes, I agree it could possibly be read either way, but it seems to me unlikely that legislation would be intended to outlaw almost every existing towbar (and I'll bet there's hundreds of thousands of them in regular use today). Conceptually this would be like requiring, for example, airbags to be retrofitted to Series Landrovers. Note, for example, that seat belts are not required on vehicles manufactured before the specified date. The only change that was definitely retrospective that I can think of was the requirement for fitting of reflectors, in about 1958.

John

[rfurzer]

JDNSW - I see your point but if you're talking of fitting a part that is of new conception and was not used historically then it's not quite the same as requiring a retrofit.

In the case of the seatbelts - whereas it is legal not to have seatbelts in a car that was never fitted with them and predated the requirement, if you choose to fit them now then they need to be suitable from a compliance point of view.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter until/ unless you have a prang while towing.

[Homestar]

JDNSW - I see your point but if you're talking of fitting a part that is of new conception and was not used historically then it's not quite the same as requiring a retrofit.

In the case of the seatbelts - whereas it is legal not to have seatbelts in a car that was never fitted with them and predated the requirement, if you choose to fit them now then they need to be suitable from a compliance point of view.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter until/ unless you have a prang while towing.

Where the towbar has been found to be a contributing factor in the accident.

[JDNSW]

........
In the case of the seatbelts - whereas it is legal not to have seatbelts in a car that was never fitted with them and predated the requirement, if you choose to fit them now then they need to be suitable from a compliance point of view.

At the end of the day it doesn't matter until/ unless you have a prang while towing.

Yes, I take your point.

And the major issue with the Perenties is not the towbar availability, but the towing capacity - and a certified approved towbar rated at 3500 would be a very good start to getting the limit raised.

Not that this seems to stop some people - I was talking to a man at a swap meet in Dubbo a while back - he had a 6x6 (which he'd only just got), towing a trailer (military ring coupling) - which clearly weighed a lot more than 1200kg, but I'll bet he had no approval for it. He had come down from Qld and was praising the 6x6's load carrying and towing capability! I did not ask him about this, as at the time I was unaware of the issue - and I suspect he was as well.

John

[Disckombi]

Reading further - 2.4 Applicability Table - ADR 62/02 applies to vehicles manufactured on or after 1 January 2009.
It also refers to Acceptable Prior Rules being ADR 62/01 - if you look that one up, you find that it was only applicable to cars manufactured on or after 1 Jan or July 1998.
So it would seem that towbars on earlier vehicles need not comply to ADR 62/01 0r 62/02

[rfurzer]

https://www.legislation.gov.au/Details/F2006L03054

This one has a table going back to 1991

[Disckombi]

Don't make it easy do they - odd that 62/01 doesn't refer back to 62/00 as an Acceptable Prior Rule

Cheers

[TOMMYLIZARD]

Is Aaron now producing this towing adapter ? How and where may he be contacted pls ?

[rfurzer]

Not sure what he's up to. Pm'd you

[Bearman]

Yep.
Any plans for the 6x6?

I missed this as I was in the process of preparing for my WA trip, but you could make up one yourself Mick. Have a look at what I made up from a Nissan GQ ute towbar that I bought from the dump shop. Shortened it, added a few brackets, made it stronger and then got it galvanized. It doesn't have any rating other than the 3500kg tag on the Hayman Reece insert but it is stronger than anything I have seen manufactured. Not likely to fail in my opinion.

[Landy Smurf]

Any updates on this, I am currently looking into such a item.

[Landy Smurf]

Just wondering if there has been any progress or if anyone knows of any aftermarket towbars?

[rfurzer]

Expect them after new years

[Landy Smurf]

any idea on prices?

[rfurzer]

I’m not sure. Best to wait and see. I helped with the prototype but the production and certification will be aaron Burnett and apparently sales via KLR. I’m not in either of those loops

[PAJKO]

I'm very interested and will be following!

[Unison]

Any updates?

[thomson]

I did ring K L R and they will have the bar in about 1 month but it is around 1700 bucks and a extra around 900 for the cert to 3.5 ks

[Phil B]

I did ring K L R and they will have the bar in about 1 month but it is around 1700 bucks and a extra around 900 for the cert to 3.5 ks

Expensive but they have done the design, testing, certification and manufacture
They are special as none of the other Land Rover tow bars fit the Perentie chassis

[Landy Smurf]

When I spoke to them about a year ago they said it would be around $1200. I think I will just leave mine as is and use it for towing lighter trailers...hmm maybe like a No. 5