Piston rings

[Chris078]

Hi All.
Have a relative with an FFR that has started pushing the dip stick
up and blowing oil out the dip stick hole.

He's checked the CCV and reckons it's ok, which leaves us with a diagnosis of stuck/broken piston rings.
Engine still has power and does not blow smoke from the exhaust.

It's going in on Wednesday for a compression test. Any other things that may cause this that we can check before the engine gets pulled down?

[JDNSW]

Blocked breather.

John

[87County]

You didn't post who or came up with the above diagnosis or how they arrived at it Chris78

Hope the person doing the comp test is familiar with 4BD1s and is competent with what he is doing - the engine specs have a wide range. One or more cylinders may give a much lower reading than others but this in itself does not necessarily mean there is a major problem.

JD is probably on the right track (he usually is) :)

[Chris078]

Blocked breather.

John


So he's checked the Big CCV on the side of the motor, I've suggested he check the small hose running from the rocker cover to the intake manifold.

Are there any other breathers to check?

Personally I think his mechanic doesn't know Land Rovers particularly well. He's had a lot of trouble with this one (the car and the mechanic)
They recently had the valve cover off to replace the leaking gasket, but apparently the cover itself was warped so they RTV'd it up.
Sounds bodgy to me and makes me wonder if they stuffed something up for this to happen 2 weeks later.

Anyone know of a decent Land Rover mechanic in Orange NSW?

[Chris078]

You didn't post who or came up with the above diagnosis or how they arrived at it Chris78

Hope the person doing the comp test is familiar with 4BD1s and is competent with what he is doing - the engine specs have a wide range. One or more cylinders may give a much lower reading than others but this in itself does not necessarily mean there is a major problem.

JD is probably on the right track (he usually is) :)


I believe that is his diagnosis based on the symptoms. He's driven Isuzu counties since they came out and knows them reasonably well.
He isn't a mechanic though.

Anyone know the acceptable pressure range ?

[87County]

I believe that is his diagnosis based on the symptoms. He's driven Isuzu counties since they came out and knows them reasonably well.
He isn't a mechanic though.

Anyone know the acceptable pressure range ?

It is listed in the manual (available on remlr.com) together with the safety procedures for carrying it out.

[87County]

So he's checked the Big CCV on the side of the motor, I've suggested he check the small hose running from the rocker cover to the intake manifold.

Are there any other breathers to check?

Personally I think his mechanic doesn't know Land Rovers particularly well. He's had a lot of trouble with this one (the car and the mechanic)
They recently had the valve cover off to replace the leaking gasket, but apparently the cover itself was warped so they RTV'd it up.
Sounds bodgy to me and makes me wonder if they stuffed something up for this to happen 2 weeks later.

Anyone know of a decent Land Rover mechanic in Orange NSW?

I'd have to agree about the sliconing raising questions

Maybe in this case it is not so much about knowing about LRs but knowing about bigger older diesels

If you're in Orange why not call KLR (Sth Windsor - pleasant <3hr drive)? They are one of the experts who know 4BD1s inside out - see what they say.

[Blknight.aus]

check the oil level first. make sure you use the right dip stick a tow motor dipstick fits and will leave the oil up near the counterweights.

then

field test it......


with the engine running crack one injector line at a time and retighten it, if one changes the blow by more than or the engine beat changes less with one particular injector then you have identified the cylinder with atrocious blow by. the best method is a cold start when its only just making white smoke the pot that stops the smoke is the one low on compression.

wind it over by hand with a spanner on the alternator, if one cylinder provides less resistance than the others you have your culprit

to do a leak down check pull the glow plugs and wind each cylinder over to TDC compression and apply compressed air to the glow plug hole slowly let the cylinder work its way down by controlling the engines motion with the fan or a spanner on the alternator. observe the output of the crank case breather or block it and observe the dipstick tube

with the glow plugs removed raise each cylinder to TDC and then fill the combustion chamber with engine oil until its level with the top of the glow plug hole, time how long it takes to leak down AND measure how much you have to pour in, the one that leaks down fastest or requires the most to be poured in is the one with the leaking rings, you may want to repeat this test at mid and bottom stroke for each pot. make sure that you are on TDC compression and winding into the power stroke or you will loose oil out the valves.

then its time to work out why the rings are leaking...

a high detergent oil or a thinner oil mixed with dex III or hydraulic oil will do a good job of decarboning rings if run fast and at light loads.

good luck.

[Chris078]

Thanks Blknight.
how do you tell what dip stick is in there?
I just measured mine and the dip part it's 805mm to the bottom of the plug.
I'll get him to measure his.


There may be some shennanigans going on with this motor.

It seems it has a strange oil line connection from the alternator. Instead of the line returning to the block, it's actually going back to the dip stick tube.

Trying to get him to take a photo so I can see exactly what the layout is.
Has anyone heard of this arrangement?

He bought in the very first round of auctions, so if this is a modification of some sort, then the Army would have been the one who did it.

[Phil B]

My Perentie has the same arrangement
The oil dump line from the alternator is joined to the dip stick tube

[Blknight.aus]

Thanks Blknight.
how do you tell what dip stick is in there?
I just measured mine and the dip part it's 805mm to the bottom of the plug.
I'll get him to measure his.


There may be some shennanigans going on with this motor.

It seems it has a strange oil line connection from the alternator. Instead of the line returning to the block, it's actually going back to the dip stick tube.

Trying to get him to take a photo so I can see exactly what the layout is.
Has anyone heard of this arrangement?

He bought in the very first round of auctions, so if this is a modification of some sort, then the Army would have been the one who did it.


doesnt sound right to me and it would definately account for the dipstick getting blown up and oil being fed out the tube.

if there isnt some one near by that can measure one up for you the easy way is at a service when you drain the oil just add the book spec quantity and see where it is on the stick.

[Chris078]

Thanks Phil B! At least we now know that is an actual thing and not a field repair that made it through.

He has 3 other of these engines plus me looking at mine and this one is the only one set up that way so we were concerned about it.

So the current diagnosis from his mechanic is that the compression is ok,
and that
"The attachment on the back of the alternator that has a tube running down to the dip stick tube. They feel that there is a vortex developing there somehow." - His mechanic

[Chris078]

doesnt sound right to me and it would definately account for the dipstick getting blown up and oil being fed out the tube.

if there isnt some one near by that can measure one up for you the easy way is at a service when you drain the oil just add the book spec quantity and see where it is on the stick.


It's an odd one, but as per above post from Phil B, it seems this layout is out there.

He's compared all 3 dipsticks he has from the 3 different motors he has
(his FFR, his old wrecked County and he has a 6x6 as well) and they are all the same length, so I think we can cross that off the list.

I don't know about the oil fill thing. Mine has only ever taken 7.5 L of oil to fill to the top of the second dot on the dip stick. Book says 8.5L capacity but do you ever fully drain the system? Isn't there is always oil stuck in the oil pump and the vacuum pump that doesn't drain out?

[JDNSW]

If the dipstick tube has been modified, is it by any chance longer, giving a higher oil level?

John

[Chris078]

If the dipstick tube has been modified, is it by any chance longer, giving a higher oil level?

John


Information to hand is that this mod to the oil return line is done for FFR vehicles due to the second alternator taking up the space that the line would normally run through.
Seems a reasonable explanation.

still need to work out why there is pressure in the block forcing oil out the dipstick.

[Phil B]

Makes sense.
Mine is an FFR