DISCOVERY 2 TD5 OVER BOOST

[geordiepride]

with a simple plug in unit


I have had mine installed for over 2 years with out any ill side affects


1st vid trying to run 20 psi without the module lucky to hit 17 psi without surge
2nd vid now with module plugged in


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vngx0FKe-w


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sb5vSyzIVVg


http://i1149.photobucket.com/albums/o582/deanoobaby/P8050124_zpsfs2uepm4.jpg (http://s1149.photobucket.com/user/deanoobaby/media/P8050124_zpsfs2uepm4.jpg.html)


http://i1149.photobucket.com/albums/o582/deanoobaby/P8050125_zpsdjjprenj.jpg (http://s1149.photobucket.com/user/deanoobaby/media/P8050125_zpsdjjprenj.jpg.html)

[rob tilbury]

I have the same racing electronics MAP piggyback module ,, on setting #1 ( same as if its not there ) 15psi surge , on #3 no surge at 19psi ,, on #9 so much quicker and no surge at all ,,,

[twr7cx]

Td5 Turbo Booster Module (http://www.alivetuning.com/product/td5-turbo-booster-module/)

IRB Developments (http://www.irbdevelopments.com/dual_channel.html)

BAS also do one.

[singlecell]

What does the blue boost controller do? I thought it would give the same results as winding in/out the wastegate arm?

[geordiepride]

What does the blue boost controller do? I thought it would give the same results as winding in/out the wastegate arm?


the blue boost controller is a boost controller


most internal waste gates produce boost spikes as the size the gate is small


so some times shortening the rod doesn't allow the waste gate to open fully (ie the flap inside the turbo )


there are many types of boost controllers out there ...this one was designed to run inside the cab so you could adjust boost on the fly


its a personal preference where you install ,,,I found a curtain pressure on road and a curtain pressure off road use


every increment clockwise on the my boost controller = 2 psi gain

[twr7cx]

What does the blue boost controller do? I thought it would give the same results as winding in/out the wastegate arm?

You will find these frequently on modified Japanese petrol turbo charged vehicles. Basically the vacuum/boost line goes through it and the valve blocks off this somewhat to effect the pressure reading that the waste gate on the turbo receives. Adjusting the knob changes how much block occurs. Reducing the pressure to the waste gate causes it to stay closed longer resulting in the turbo charger spinning faster and more boost.

Personally, whilst I only played with the standard TD5 turbo for a short time before upgrading to a VNT I found adjusting the waste gate rod length to be very efficient, quick, easy and free. I did not note any of the negative effects that geordiepride notes above. Personally I would do this method prior to going to the expense and effort of a boost controller.

As for wanting to adjust/control the boost pressure I don't see the advantage. Why reduce the boost pressure for on or off road use?

[geordiepride]

You will find these frequently on modified Japanese petrol turbo charged vehicles. Basically the vacuum/boost line goes through it and the valve blocks off this somewhat to effect the pressure reading that the waste gate on the turbo receives. Adjusting the knob changes how much block occurs. Reducing the pressure to the waste gate causes it to stay closed longer resulting in the turbo charger spinning faster and more boost.

Personally, whilst I only played with the standard TD5 turbo for a short time before upgrading to a VNT I found adjusting the waste gate rod length to be very efficient, quick, easy and free. I did not note any of the negative effects that geordiepride notes above. Personally I would do this method prior to going to the expense and effort of a boost controller.

As for wanting to adjust/control the boost pressure I don't see the advantage. Why reduce the boost pressure for on or off road use?

adjust waste gate arm does work but every engine and waste gate are never the same as for the VNT turbos the work different I have rebuilt a few

it was a personal preference by purchasing a 30 dollar boost controller ..the boost controller bleeds off air and tricks the waste gate the waste gate still opens at the correct pressure

another personal preference is fuel economy more boost means more fuel up to now I run 3 cars on mechanics wages

I found that a nice moderate boost level suits my driving style while driving on road and not to aggressive . when I go off road I up the boost a bit just to give me some extra whoomp

as for adjust waste gate arm length most people get that extra launch feeling.. I was turbo spiking from the day I purchased it... the guy before me had the way to much tension on the waste gate


here is a link its a basic read up

Technical Articles | Boost Spiking Explained | Turbosmart USA (http://www.turbosmartusa.com/technical-articles/boost-spiking-explained/)

[sierrafery]

there are many types of boost controllers out there ...this one was designed to run inside the cab so you could adjust boost on the fly ...another personal preference is fuel economy more boost means more fuel up to now I run 3 cars on mechanics wages ...
from my own experience the bolded stetement doesnt sound correct to me(provided it's about a comparison for the same throttle input) IMO if you trick the wastegate as to have lower boost rather than higher at the same TP input the consumption will be higher at lower boost so would be the EGT cos the ECU expects a certain boost at a certain TP input and air flow and if it gets lower it will increase fuelling to get to the expected level, higher boost at same throttle input is good(up to overboost limit off course)...also when i fitted the forge actuator i made some tests with the old valve and IMO the rod is not set as at 13 thread left factory setting to be at full travel shortening the rod as to increase the boost up to the overboost limit(around 10 threads left) should not affect the wastegate's travel

[geordiepride]

from my own experience the bolded stetement doesnt sound correct to me(provided it's about a comparison for the same throttle input) IMO if you trick the wastegate as to have lower boost rather than higher at the same TP input the consumption will be higher at lower boost so would be the EGT cos the ECU expects a certain boost at a certain TP input and air flow and if it gets lower it will increase fuelling to get to the expected level, higher boost at same throttle input is good(up to overboost limit off course)...also when i fitted the forge actuator i made some tests with the old valve and IMO the rod is not set as at 13 thread left factory setting to be at full travel shortening the rod as to increase the boost up to the overboost limit(around 10 threads left) should not affect the wastegate's travel

agree 13 threads but every negative person is missing the point that when I purchased the car mine was wound up way to tight

as for fuel encomomy to make boost we need a few things one of those things is = more heat in the exhaust side of the turbo allows you to have more boost if you don't put the fuel in well then we wont have boost

so are you saying the MAP sensor doesn't need to be there and boost levels work off throttle position if so disconnect your map sensor and go for a drive regardless of where the peddle is you will have no power

if iam reading you right are you saying fuel consumption is the same at running 10 psi and running 20 psi

[sierrafery]

No, i was trying to say something else, the MAP sensor's reading is used by the ECU's addaptive strategy for fuelling calculations and at a certain throttle demand, ambient pressure and air flow the ECU expects a certain MAP reading so if you reduce the boost it will increase fuelling to achieve that expected MAP that's why you get black smoke if there's a boost leak before the inlet, at the same TP input if you shorten the rod there will be more boost but not more fuel injected so not greater consumption and lower EGT, reducing boost artificially at the same TP input is exactly like when there's a boost leak so the EGT and consumption will grow.... it's like when you climb a long hill with the throttle fully depressed and the AAP drops so will drop the MAP and the ECU will give more fuel to maintain the MAP constant = altitude compensation, that's what you do if you reduce boost, the MAP will drop and the ECU will compensate with fuel so at the same driver demands higher MAP(boost) is better and there will not be higher consumption at all

[geordiepride]

for those that don't exactly understand how a turbo works and how it affects fuel consumption here is a link

https://www.ipdusa.com/techtips/10079/understanding-turbo-boost

[sierrafery]

I'm affraid my english is not good enough to make my point if you answer with that link to what i posted cos i spoke about modifying boost at the same TP input and off course that i agree with how the boost affects consumption if the boost is achieved by throttle demand, the gist in that link for our discussion is the following statement:
... More air, more fuel equals more power. The amount of this pressure is a function of your right foot. The more you lean on the gas the more the turbo comes into play.

Does all this extra power consume more fuel? You bet it does So the consumption is affected mainly by the right foot not by the wastegate

I thought that we are speaking about boost controll here cos that's what you do with a wastegate controller not how the turbo works related to how hard you push the throttle... what i was trying to say is that if you shorten the rod or reduce the pressure on the wastegate valve with a bleeder will increase boost at the same "function of the right foot" so "more turbo comes into play" without leaning more on the gas. Believe me i'm not trying to argue, i made many tests and various kind of measurements on my own car and simply increasing the boost by shortening the rod to 10 threads didnt affect consumption at all on the contrary so that's why i quoted that part from your statement with the boost out of the context cos you said that you reduce boost with your bleeder for consumption reasons which i think it's wrong....sorry if i didnt put it well, i edited my previous message too accordingly.

IMHO if you reduce the boost from your controller what you'll get is higher EGT not better consumption...eventually worst

[geordiepride]

the link I posted was a basic run down

as for the higher egt ..... who said any thing about lowering boost levels ..I actually bring my boost levels back to stock maybe 1 or 2 psi more than stock ..when I go off road I up the boost only on road I bring boost levels back down just above stock settings


do you have a boost gauge installed

if so in neutral rev the engine to a steady 2000 rpm or 3000 rpm ..note the boost readings if you have a scan gauge note throttle position

now do the same while driving ie cruzing down the free way tell me what changed on the boost gauge at the same throttle position or same RPM

not here to argue either ..you may of increased boost but by how much 1 or 2 psi 3 to notice no fuel consumption

when I go off road like to wind up the boost allot more

so the boost controller allows me to do this very easy

as for fuel consumption every bodys driving style vehicle set up is different then we have load and weight to also consider

[sierrafery]

Maybe we speak about two different subjects, that test you propose seems irrelevant for this discussion which is about wastegate boost controll not about how boost is achieved with throttle in gear... cos all i was trying to say is that reducing boost with a controller at the same throttle would not reduce consumption so you can let your off-road setting on road too, the EGT will be lower and maybe the consumption too cos you'll need less throttle for the same boost ... i suppose i'd get no boost at 2000 rpm stationary with my setting. IMO the fact that you had to set the wategate rod to 15 threads and work with a boost controller to not get spikes is sign of a problem there as long as the factory setting is 13 threads and it can accept 10 without probs... where did you pick up the boost for the gauge ?, cos if it's on the pipe between the intercooler and wastegate modulator those spikes you see on the gauge is the modulator's effect as it's pulsating... if you got 27psi on the gauge and the overboost protection didnt kick in which would have left a fault code stored for that too IMO your problem is with the gauge not with the wastegate setting so we better speak about that

[geordiepride]

Maybe we speak about two different subjects, that test you propose seems irrelevant for this discussion which is about wastegate boost controll not about how boost is achieved with throttle in gear... cos all i was trying to say is that reducing boost with a controller at the same throttle would not reduce consumption so you can let your off-road setting on road too, the EGT will be lower and maybe the consumption too cos you'll need less throttle for the same boost ... i suppose i'd get no boost at 2000 rpm stationary with my setting. IMO the fact that you had to set the wategate rod to 15 threads and work with a boost controller to not get spikes is sign of a problem there as long as the factory setting is 13 threads and it can accept 10 without probs... where did you pick up the boost for the gauge ?, cos if it's on the pipe between the intercooler and wastegate modulator those spikes you see on the gauge is the modulator's effect as it's pulsating... if you got 27psi on the gauge and the overboost protection didnt kick in which would have left a fault code stored for that too IMO your problem is with the gauge not with the wastegate setting so we better speak about that

maybe work has been done in the past also ecu looks like its also been prised open

we need to get on the same page about boost
iam more refering to manifold pressure that's where I have my fitting for the boost gauge to read the true way ..many might install there boost gauge at the waste gate or signal lines but not a true reading

I have a few pressure gauges in all kinds of scale ... all gauges spiked that was when the gate was wound up to tight ..

[sierrafery]

That spike thing is strange though cos there are settings for Td5 defenders with boost box as the rod is tightened to 7 threads without probs... IMO set at least to factory setting 13 threads and if you get spikes replace the wastegate modulator cos a "tired" one could do that as early Td5 defenders which are going well at 7 threads + boost box dont have it at all and maybe that's why there are no probs

though did you watch the MAP reading too when those spikes occured?...cos as long as the MAP doesnt feel it it won't affect the management

[Tins]

Wow. I, for one, would love you two to sit down and discuss this verbally, with maybe Dave ( black knight ) as well, maybe in a Podcast. Discussion like this is so limited by context, and expression, when text is not your usual medium ( not saying it isn't, mind ).
Geographically, I can see a challenge, cos Perth and Katherine aren't exactly next door, and Transylvania?
But, you both have very interesting takes on this topic, and I am following, as closely as I can Thanks.

[geordiepride]

That spike thing is strange though cos there are settings for Td5 defenders with boost box as the rod is tightened to 7 threads without probs... IMO set at least to factory setting 13 threads and if you get spikes replace the wastegate modulator cos a "tired" one could do that as early Td5 defenders which are going well at 7 threads + boost box dont have it at all and maybe that's why there are no probs

though did you watch the MAP reading too when those spikes occured?...cos as long as the MAP doesnt feel it it won't affect the management

when I purchased the car the oil cooler was blowing oil into the coolant while I was doing the job I ended up braking the electronic boost controller so I purchased a new original one from landrover barbegello but this did not fix the boost spikes

I then installed my boost controller off my other discovery series 1 .. 4 cylinder
over to the td5 and removed the electronic boost and i was still spiking ..

i found the pre load tension on the waste gate was to tight resulting in an over shot ..you would need a hydraulic press just to move the thing LOL

i don't have any issues now with spiking the car runs good i should not have said that tomorrow something will go wrong

but i do recommend not playing with any turbo adjustment if you don't have a pressure gauge installed

in the first post on my second vid i was running 20 psi this is manifold pressure if this gauge was mounted in the turbo signal lines i would be seeing well over 25 psi

[geordiepride]

Wow. I, for one, would love you two to sit down and discuss this verbally, with maybe Dave ( black knight ) as well, maybe in a Podcast. Discussion like this is so limited by context, and expression, when text is not your usual medium ( not saying it isn't, mind ).
Geographically, I can see a challenge, cos Perth and Katherine aren't exactly next door, and Transylvania?
But, you both have very interesting takes on this topic, and I am following, as closely as I can Thanks.
since you commented your now involved LOL

I have to admit I iam not the best when it comes to grammar nor typing also my spelling sucks ..but being a Geordie I was brought up this way

but what I can say is that my job is a road train mechanic

I encounter these boost spike issues once in a while

new driver starts and thinks he knows it all makes an attempt to wind up boost ..and gets away with it.... he then swaps trucks probation time is over and he is to do bigger and better jobs

so then another new driver starts and does the same to the to the first truck as he is also a yahoo ..but this time it causes issues ..we tell the driver to isolate the truck to reset any codes and take it easy coming home

Vcads laptop interface allows us to go into history of the engine ecu

boost spikes seem to be a regular thing... it took us a while to work out why one day the truck ran good then it didn't ..but fresh scratch marks on the locking nut revealed every thing and its a never ending cycle

I have found ball bearings inside the waste gate pressure lines as well as pin holes to either block or bleed off as well as inner air filters removed

[Tins]

since you commented your now involved LOL

I have to admit I iam not the best when it comes to grammar nor typing also my spelling sucks ..but being a Geordie I was brought up this way

but what I can say is that my job is a road train mechanic

I encounter these boost spike issues once in a while

new driver starts and thinks he knows it all makes an attempt to wind up boost ..and gets away with it.... he then swaps trucks probation time is over and he is to do bigger and better jobs

so then another new driver starts and does the same to the to the first truck as he is also a yahoo ..but this time it causes issues ..we tell the driver to isolate the truck to reset any codes and take it easy coming home

Vcads laptop interface allows us to go into history of the engine ecu

boost spikes seem to be a regular thing... it took us a while to work out why one day the truck ran good then it didn't ..but fresh scratch marks on the locking nut revealed every thing and its a never ending cycle

I have found ball bearings inside the waste gate pressure lines as well as pin holes to either block or bleed off as well as inner air filters removed

Ok, now I'm seriously interested.... As a long time heavy vehicle driver, I have to ask; what program are you running that allows drivers to control boost? I ask because I would love an operator to give me such control, and I can count the ones that do on the fingers of a fish's fin.

Now, I'm sure some drivers believe they can do it better than the computer, but seriously? I have spent the last 3 years and 500Ks driving an R730 Scania and there was no way I could access it's computer to make it do what it was clearly capable of.

I repeat, i don't doubt you.., but I would be seriously grateful if you could forward me a program or two.

[Tins]

Ok, now I'm seriously interested.... As a long time heavy vehicle driver, I have to ask; what program are you running that allows drivers to control boost? I ask because I would love an operator to give me such control, and I can count the ones that do on the fingers of a fish's fin.

Now, I'm sure some drivers believe they can do it better than the computer, but seriously? I have spent the last 3 years and 500Ks driving an R730 Scania and there was no way I could access it's computer to make it do what it was clearly capable of.

I repeat, i don't doubt you.., but I would be seriously grateful if you could forward me a program or two.

OK again. Now I read what you really posted.. Things come into perspective don;t they? I apologise.

[geordiepride]

OK again. Now I read what you really posted.. Things come into perspective don;t they? I apologise.

I mainly work with Volvo

vcads is only a diagnostic tool and run tests but we also have a digi pass that's locked away... this digi pass gives a generated code also need to be online via the internet also its not licence free the company I work for needed a pay a licence registration and its not cheap

we can program power and adjust a few sensors as long as we don't go out the sensors bandwidth

every thing is recorded via the internet also it would not look good when the trucks get clocked speeding over 100KPH