Dang TD5 overheating!

[Ralph1Malph]

:mad:
Well I was out driving the burbs last Wed and all of a sudden engine loses power and hi temp light comes on! Dagnabit!

Pull over and assess the situation and sure enough, coolant cap is oozing steam. Let it cool, refill, quick bleed and carry on. Monitored it all Thurs and Fri, didn't drive it Sat.
Today (Sunday) we were invited on an easy Condamine river drive with some folk from the Brisbane Jeep club. Well bugger me if it didn't do the same thing near the top of Cunninghams Gap! :( To avoid further embarrassment, we retired from the trip and started for home. It got progressively worse and we had to stop three times on the way home to cool and re-fill.

So, whilst I haven't done any diagnosis yet, I can tell you that I have a low water level alarm which appears to be working although it didn't squeal. :confused: . I also didn't let it hit the red, before stopping, although I could feel it de-rate. Thermo fan spins like a crazy so I reckon it's working. I didn't check the viscous fan coz I plum forgot.

So, I'll have to seek assistance on this one I reckon as I haven't the time or patience to track down a cooling issue. Plus I don't have a pressure tester. I might have quick sticky at the oil and see if there is any water in it.
I'll also add that there was no sign of coolant leakage, so I assume all was lost as steam?

Bugger it! Spoilt a good day.

What to do?

Ralph

[rob tilbury]

wow ,,, could be anything from stuck thermostat to water pump to head gasket ,,, had a mate have his car over heat when the cat was blocked .
I would start with a pressure test

[R2D2]

Which engine and what vehicle?

[strangy]

Based on your description, don't bother with a pressure test.
The head gasket is done and if you are lucky, really lucky, the head may get away with a skim after a hardness test.
All the info for this is in the "good oil"
Thermostat and hoses are essentially irrelevant now and should be replaced when the head gets done.
All the best.

[geordiepride]

do your heaters work inside the cab ..if not it could just be an air lock


before jumping to conclusions its head and gasket purchase a block tester this test will tell you if you have exhaust gasses entering the coolant system its a 20 second test


if no exhaust gasses entering then look at thermostat quick test remove thermostat and test drive or place the thermostat in boiling hot water does it open


do you have a water flow remove the bleeder hose from the top tank and do you get any water coming out while engine running

[Ralph1Malph]

Which engine and what vehicle?
Hi,
TD5 Disco

Ralph

[Disco Muppet]

Water pump or Tstat stuck closed?
I'd agree with strangy though, to get that hot, the head won't be very happy.

Sent from my HTC One using AULRO mobile app

[ramblingboy42]

...head gasket.....

if you didn't let it get very hot you should have no warping.....mine did same thing.

[Ralph1Malph]

Okies!
I finally had a chance to start investigating.
I had a good poke around the viscous fan and am convinced it's shot.

Firstly, viscous hub actually 'wobbles' on the shaft. I'd say when wobbled by hand, prob 1-2mm at the shaft.
Second, whilst I could turn it by hand when the engine is off, I couldn't stop or slow the fan by artificial means when the engine was cold, or warming or at operating temp.

In fact, I couldn't ascertain any difference in engine revs to hub revs at any point in the heating cycle.
I was expecting that if I switched the car off at normal operating temp, the viscous fan would run on...a little...it didn't.

Oh well. Choices.
Do I replace the viscous fan and stress the engine (fancy term for drive hard up a hill) to see if I've done the head gasket? Maybe, just maybe I'll get lucky.

Cheers
Ralph

[Pippin]

While your viscous fan may need replacing and or the shaft bearing it is almost certainly secondary to your overheating which I would be also certain to be the head gasket. This is a common scenario which can be time wasting and expensive trying to avoid the obvious. Once you have had overheating like this you have no choice but to replace the head gasket and have the head checked. To try other things and over heat again will only make matters worse.

Sorry
Nick

[Ralph1Malph]

While your viscous fan may need replacing and or the shaft bearing it is almost certainly secondary to your overheating which I would be also certain to be the head gasket. This is a common scenario which can be time wasting and expensive trying to avoid the obvious. Once you have had overheating like this you have no choice but to replace the head gasket and have the head checked. To try other things and over heat again will only make matters worse.

Sorry
Nick

Say it isn't so!

[geordiepride]

my viscous fan hub also had play so I purchased a new bearing


found that the bearing I removed is in good condition so I kept it as a spare also found that the bearing housing was worn this allowed the bearing to move on the outer race inside the housing ..I decided to drill and tap the housing and installed grub screws this grabs the bearing and doesn't allow the bearing to spin in the housing


me personally I would do some other quick tests before spending lots of money
I may be wrong it could be head /gasket but would hate to see you do all of that and it turns out to be something simple


a nice tool to have in the shed and this will last you a life time unless your checking over heating issue's every day ..


https://www.google.com.au/#q=block+tester+kit

[loanrangie]

Concur with all above , if you can hear gurgling in the heater and or have bubbling or pressurizing in the hoses and coolant tank its 100% head gasket failure.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using AULRO mobile app

[geordiepride]

been a road train mechanic all my life jumping to conclusions has seen me land in a pile of **** and also looked stupid.. iam not perfect


a failed water pump will also make it gurgle and boil over or a coolant blockage


is it just steam coming out or is it combined with exhaust gasses( we don't know )


a simple test will save allot of heart ache

[Pippin]

I don't disagree with a simple test, but the TD5 engine does not do well after an overheat as described with regard the head where other diesel engines maybe much more tolerant. Irrespective of the cause the damage is very likely to have occurred.
It's not jumping to conclusions but a very high probability.
Nick

[ramblingboy42]

you actually don't need the viscous fan while you are driving....airflow through the radiator ia ample to cool your td5.

the d2/td5 combination is a very efficient cooling system and any problem lets the system down.

pull the head, you will find the gasket or like in my case part of it is gone , causing your problem.

[goanna_shire]

I am a mechanic. I have a disco 2. I have pulled most of the hair out of my own head too. My tattered example of a D2 has had a de-rate / Overheat episode sounding much like this one. Turned out to be a few different things but luckily no head gasket.... yet ;).

Check for bubbles coming out your tell tale squirter just inside where the coolant cap fits in when engine is running. Nothing coming out there probably points to no water pump spinning or low coolant level.

A great idea is to remove the little panel inside your front RH inner guard (front bit) and take the hoses off the bottom of the radiator and let all the crap out and wash the system out with the hose. (yes your coolant is perfect, sure:p).

Next fill the system up with some new coolant and make sure you get all the air out of your heater element (matrix). The header tank is easy to dislodge from its bracket and raise up nice and high. un-do the heater hose at the firewall to let the air out of the heater :).

Do you have a boost gauge? Has your turbo been tampered with? Your TD5 will overheat and de-rate if it overboosts for long enough on a big uphill drive.

Have you still got your EGR valve connected? Another fun culprit for causing problems. Some Td5 EGR valves have a tendency to stick themselves open whilst you are cruising along and bringing your family trip to a crawling 20km/hr on the highway. A simple plate on the exhaust manifold where the EGR valve gets it's feed from can solve this problem.

Cheers,
Brian.

[Ralph1Malph]

I am a mechanic. I have a disco 2. I have pulled most of the hair out of my own head too. My tattered example of a D2 has had a de-rate / Overheat episode sounding much like this one. Turned out to be a few different things but luckily no head gasket.... yet ;).

Check for bubbles coming out your tell tale squirter just inside where the coolant cap fits in when engine is running. Nothing coming out there probably points to no water pump spinning or low coolant level.

A great idea is to remove the little panel inside your front RH inner guard (front bit) and take the hoses off the bottom of the radiator and let all the crap out and wash the system out with the hose. (yes your coolant is perfect, sure:p).

Next fill the system up with some new coolant and make sure you get all the air out of your heater element (matrix). The header tank is easy to dislodge from its bracket and raise up nice and high. un-do the heater hose at the firewall to let the air out of the heater :).

Do you have a boost gauge? Has your turbo been tampered with? Your TD5 will overheat and de-rate if it overboosts for long enough on a big uphill drive.

Have you still got your EGR valve connected? Another fun culprit for causing problems. Some Td5 EGR valves have a tendency to stick themselves open whilst you are cruising along and bringing your family trip to a crawling 20km/hr on the highway. A simple plate on the exhaust manifold where the EGR valve gets it's feed from can solve this problem.

Cheers,
Brian.

Cheers,
It can't hurt to do all this stuff. It's not gunna get worse!
EGR gone years ago, boost tweaked up years ago. Water pump replaced for good cond secondhand 18mth ago.
I stopped investigating once I realised that the cooling system was over pressure at normal running temp. This is a sure sign of head gasket in nearly every other engine lol.

Cheers
Ralph

[geordiepride]

Cheers,
It can't hurt to do all this stuff. It's not gunna get worse!
EGR gone years ago, boost tweaked up years ago. Water pump replaced for good cond secondhand 18mth ago.
I stopped investigating once I realised that the cooling system was over pressure at normal running temp. This is a sure sign of head gasket in nearly every other engine lol.

Cheers
Ralph

if it was head gasket it would over pressure on a cold engine as combustion gasses is entering the cooling system

if its only doing this on a warm engine I would be more looking cracked head or a failed 2nd hand GOOD CONDITION water pump

as for the sign of head gasket in nearly other engine I SERIUSLY LAUGHED OUT LOUD

have you checked for combustion gasses in the coolant ?

diagnose first then fix why touch something that isn't broken

[Pippin]

Agree that it is most likely a cracked head. Either or head gasket they both require the same action head off and checked as stated in my earlier post. The symptoms described by the OP are quite clear on this.
Nick

[Tins]

TD5? If it wasn't a head gasket in the first place it almost certainly is one now. They don't like getting hot.

[Ralph1Malph]

Alright folks, just take this to the end, I've not been able to do any real analysis due to work, but I did check a few simple things.

The tell tale in the coolant reservoir is healthy! Mostly a solid stream but occasional bubble.

No audible gurgling or slurping in the cabin or engine bay. Heater core sounds full due to no noise and .....heat.

I'm currently interstate but when I return I'll drop the coolant. That said, I have a bar fitted. This entails removal of one of the 'air scoops'. I did notice that the external radiator core was feelthy with some fins corroded/missing.

Later dudes.

Ralph

[Tins]

Alright folks, just take this to the end, I've not been able to do any real analysis due to work, but I did check a few simple things.

The tell tale in the coolant reservoir is healthy! Mostly a solid stream but occasional bubble.

No audible gurgling or slurping in the cabin or engine bay. Heater core sounds full due to no noise and .....heat.

I'm currently interstate but when I return I'll drop the coolant. That said, I have a bar fitted. This entails removal of one of the 'air scoops'. I did notice that the external radiator core was feelthy with some fins corroded/missing.

Later dudes.

Ralph

All I can say is, good luck! Hope it works out.