timing belt service - 3 questions???

[LRDisco_Fever]

Hey guys,

I know this has been covered a little bit but its kind of all over the place. I have booked the Disco in for 180k service and its time to do the timing belts. I have 3 questions. keeping in mind I have 2009 3.0 TDV6 D4 HSE

1) what should be changed out in the service?
2) what sort of price should I try and achieve for that?
3) what else should I get done while they are in there?


thanks for your help
Paul

[Graeme]

Not answering your questions but changing the HP fuel pump belt without lifting the body took me and my son many more hours than the time R&R'ing the body reportedly takes, along with it being a very frustrating job. It is not the same task as changing a 2.7 fuel pump belt, with significant difficulty removing and replacing the belt cover and in getting the fuel pump timing right, which all has to be done blind. Removing the body should mean less time changing the camshaft belt too.

[LRDisco_Fever]

Hey Graeme,

Its getting done by land rover so I'm assuming they lift the body? or regardless of how quick they do it, they charge me for the time that the job is listed at. how ever i have managed to negotiate with them a bit lately, hence why i want to get an idea of what people have been paying for the service.

[sheerluck]

Can't help with how much, but I'm reasonably certain that the standard workshop manual doesn't allow for a body lift.

There's not a fat lot else on that service on top of the belts replacement, it looks like a standard A schedule service.

[Ghost-Who-Walks]

Hi

Just had mine done (it's supposed to be done at 168k kms, I thought)... I also have a MY10 ('09) 3.0 D4.

I get my local (recommended) indie to do the work. He's done a number of them, so checks a bunch of regular things, and changes out whatever needs doing as preventative or based on condition.

I talked to him about the fuel pump belt, but he said it's a different job/location to the timing belts on the 3.0. He said that's a BIG job, and there wasn't a lot of 'synergies' with doing it during the timing belt (I think that's what he meant, anyway).

He did do:
the
timing belts
water pump
visually checked the crank seal, but didn't change (no leaks)
also has 2 pulleys on the invoice - can't remember what he said about that, but I think was one of those "do it while you're there" jobs

I did have a thread asking about 'other' work to do during this task on the 3.0L (end June/July), but generally didn't get much. Most of the chatter on this forum is regarding the D3, tensioner pulleys etc...

Hope that helps...

Rob

[LRDisco_Fever]

thanks mate,

I searched but didn't see your thread (i'm not real good at searching though).

maybe I'll get more from the guys if I'm more specific?

this is the list of stuff that I think I'll ask about:
- timing belt and tensioner
- 2x idler pulleys
- high pressure fuel pump belt and tensioner
- serpentine belt, idler and tensioner
- ive seen mention of something to do with the plastic top/neck of the coolant sump
- coolant housing
- turbo hoses

thoughts????

[BobD]

Definitely do the water pump and front crank oil seal while they are in there. My water pump was replaced at my request and the bearings were starting to get gritty, although not leaking yet. I also wanted my alternator changed but there were none in Australia at the time. Seems to be a bit different now though, based on a recent thread.

[Ghost-Who-Walks]

This was the other thread... not much new...

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/l319-discovery-3-4/237587-d4-3-0l-timing-belt-tensioner.html

[bbb]

my D4 is due for it's timing belts
i've just asked for a quote from the local dealer

what $$ did it end up for you Paul?

cheers,
bashir.

[Kandy]

Did u get a quote?

[bbb]

dealer getting back to me in the morning with a quote - hopefully it's not too outrageous

[LRDisco_Fever]

For the logbook service the iniatal figure was over $1500. I'm now going to negotiate with the extra stuff I want done and get quotes from some independents as well to see what I can me up with.

Let me know what your dealer says.

[PerthDisco]

Expect $4 to 5k including service and bits and upgraded oil housing if <MY09

[bbb]

after 2 follow up calls, still no quote from the dealer :/

[LRDisco_Fever]

for reference guys,

For the timing belt service plus the water pump, crank bolt and seal, coolant system crossover pipe. i got quotes between $2800 and $3100.

[DazzaTD5]

for reference guys,

For the timing belt service plus the water pump, crank bolt and seal, coolant system crossover pipe. i got quotes between $2800 and $3100.

that price is well within the ballpark, looks pretty good to me...

Regards
Daz

[LRDisco_Fever]

yeah i was happy with that

[BigJon]

Last Sport 3.0 I did the job total was about $2400. Both belts, pullies, tensioner, etc. No oil pump or seals. No water pump.

[101RRS]

I will ask similar questions here.

RRS 2.7 TDV6

Work to be done - HP Injection Pump - straight forward but difficult for my arthritic fingers

Cam belt, serpentine belt, oil pump and thermostat housing.

I have priced the LR genuine oil pump and was shocked at the nearly $500.

Happy to do the work myself.

So where to buy kits for (obvious cheapest - not Brit Part and oil pump to be genuine unless there is a strong recommendation for something else)

Injection Pump Belt
Cam Belt
Serpentine belt
Thermostat Housing
Oil Pump


In the kits do you get everything (tensioners, idlers etc) or what else do you need to buy? Does the Cam Belt kit come with a new crank bolt or is this separate.

Lastly - I know what has to done but looking any tips for new players - like the cam/crank lock pins have to have the plateing removed to fit, there are some left hand threads, I have heard there can be issues with getting the fan off.

Thanks

Garry

[BigJon]

Dayco timing belt kit should come with bolts, tensioners, etc. Won't come with the crank bolt, as the crank bolt is not removed for normal belt replacement.

[sheerluck]

Garry,

The oil pump can be had for under $100 from a Ford dealer. Clearly it's the same part as those supplied in a Land Rover box.

[101RRS]

Thanks for those comments - the only reason for asking about the crank bolt was that on a Youtube Vid the guy replaced it - so I wont worry about it.

Ford Territory engine - forgot about that - thanks I will try the local ford dealer - actually $168 at my local Ford Dealer but none held by Ford Aust but next shipment is in on 21 Sep.

Cheers

Garry

[Grentarc]

Garry,

The oil pump can be had for under $100 from a Ford dealer. Clearly it's the same part as those supplied in a Land Rover box.

Yes, but don't get the crank bolt from Ford as it is 1/3 the price from a Land Rover dealer

[BigJon]

Thanks for those comments - the only reason for asking about the crank bolt was that on a Youtube Vid the guy replaced it - so I wont worry about it.



If you are replacing the oil pump you must replace the crank bolt. The bolt is torque to yield and single use only.

[101RRS]

If you are replacing the oil pump you must replace the crank bolt. The bolt is torque to yield and single use only.

Oh OK - thanks - that is why the guy in the vid did it as he did the oil pump as I will be doing.

I am surprised at the costs of some things - LR oil pump $450 (Ford $169), Dayco Timing belt kit with idlers ($495) - not yet priced the serpentine belt kit or the HP injection belt kit.

Given a typical price to to this job of about $2500 - $3000 there is not a lot left for labour if genuine LR parts are used as many shops would use.

Thanks for the clarification on these issues.

Now to start getting the various kits and wait for Ford to get some oil pumps in country.

Garry

[BigJon]

The genuine LR belts I took off a 3.0 Sport were branded Dayco.

[101RRS]

Dayco cam belt and HP belt kit with all tensioners and idlers are $220 AUD in the UK - shipping extra. Pricing indicates about $600 here.

Genuine LR Oil Pump is about the same price in the UK as here - so the Ford option is the way to go. I will order it at the local Ford dealer so when they come in I will have one allocated for me.

Garry

[Tombie]

Not saying it's right or wrong as I haven't checked but make sure the oil pumps ARE the same - LR often modify lubrication systems for the expected off-road use/angles encountered etc.

[sheerluck]

Definitely the same part Tombie. Parts guy in the local Ford dealer was telling me their original stocks (of oil pumps and other parts for the TDV6 engine) actually came in Land Rover branded boxes as well. :D

[101RRS]

By all means buy the pump from Ford but be wary of the other bits that are also needed.

I just ordered and got stung a bit on the other bits.

Ford Costs with GST

Pump - $147.88
Gasket - $73.64 (half the price of the actual pump :mad:)
Oil Pump Shaft seal $8.16 for the two
Crankshaft Seal $36.12

I am not sure if the LR product comes with the "extras" - what floored me was the cost of the pump gasket which I would have come with the pump.

Garry

[sheerluck]

The pump is the only part (except an oill filter at $22) that is worth buying from the Ford dealers, all the rest are cheaper at LR.

[Grentarc]

LR crank seal is $13 or so, cost me $18 delivered

[101RRS]

The kits for the cam belt and HP belt come with all bits that are required. Includes tensioners and idlers.

However there is not a kit for the ancillary serpentine belt - when you replace this belt do you also need to replace the tensioners and iders (these are expensive) noting that you do not replace the bearings in the alternator, the water pump, A/c compressor and power steering pump.

Also I am happy to do the cam belts - seem straight forward but while the HP belt should be straight forward its location will make it difficult for my arthritic wrist and fingers. When changing the oil filter on the weekend I had a close look at this and there is no way I will be able to get my hands in the back of the engine. Why do designers do this - utter nonsense.

I will have the dayco kit, so what sort of labour costs is it going to cost me to get some young pimply apprentice mechanic to do it for me.

Garry

[Grappler]

By all means buy the pump from Ford but be wary of the other bits that are also needed.

I just ordered and got stung a bit on the other bits.

Ford Costs with GST

Pump - $147.88
Gasket - $73.64 (half the price of the actual pump :mad:)
Oil Pump Shaft seal $8.16 for the two
Crankshaft Seal $36.12

I am not sure if the LR product comes with the "extras" - what floored me was the cost of the pump gasket which I would have come with the pump.

Garry

When I replaced the RRS TDV6 2.7 timing belt/tensioners about 18 mo ago I sourced all the parts from the UK. The genuine upgraded oil pump came in at less than $150 and came with a rubber gasket (I did buy a gasket but it was only $15) I can see the pumps in the UK have increased in price. All up I spent about AUD600 for oil pump, gasket, Dayco timing and fuel belts and idlers, seal and aux serpintine belt.
I bought a new crank bolt in Aus for about $25 The bolt requires a huge torque and is all that keeps the pulley in position (no key or spline!) I was worried about the timing locking tool sheering off, but it held OK. The manual recommends another special tool to hold the flywheel
The crank seal is difficult to seat without buckling. It lands on radial lugs and if you push against the bridged part of the seal it will distort. I made an insertion tool to keep it even
Although I bought the fuel pump belt and tensioner , that job is still in the too hard basket. Ive read you need gynaecological skills to succeed. A fuel belt failure is not ideal but is non destructive unlike the a timing belt failure.

[kenl]

I've got a 2011 3.0l SDV6, my dealers (in Albany) told me that they take the body off for them and it is about a 12hr job, they estimate the cost to replace both belts and tensioners would be about $2500.

I thought this price to be quite reasonable, they had done one just a few weeks ago and I imagine when mine is due they will be well practiced in the body off procedure. I certainly didn't want to be their first body off!

[BigJon]

There is no need for body off. I would be more concerned about the possibility for more things to be upset / damaged / etc by an unrequired body removal than I would be about doing the HP fuel pump belt in situ.

[justinc]

There is no need for body off. I would be more concerned about the possibility for more things to be upset / damaged / etc by an unrequired body removal than I would be about doing the HP fuel pump belt in situ.

.....are you volunteering to do another 3.0sdv6 fuel pump belt Jon??? ��

[BigJon]

Everything at a price!

[Grentarc]

There is no need for body off. I would be more concerned about the possibility for more things to be upset / damaged / etc by an unrequired body removal than I would be about doing the HP fuel pump belt in situ.
There is no need, but it would make the job 100x easier!

[justinc]

Everything at a price!

.... i don't know mate i think I'd have to think twice the way I'm going at the moment. ...:censored:

[BigJon]

There is no need, but it would make the job 100x easier!

It would make the belt change part easier. But what about the work involved in the body removal?

[Grentarc]

It would make the belt change part easier. But what about the work involved in the body removal?
It is designed for that - and it would have been quicker to R&R the body of my D4 than what it took to do the HPFP belt with the body on.

[BigJon]

I know they are designed for it. What is the real time to R&R the body?

[vbrab]

I've had all front and rear timing belts and chains/tensioners/pulleys replaced twice on my high K D3 2.7, as well as a new HP pump fitted on other occasion.
Nobody said anything about having to remove the body for any of it.
If your fuel cooler on top of motor starts to leak, that may require a body off......but same workshop found a work-around for that task as well.
Had it all done at Rover-Tech Perth.

[Grentarc]

I know they are designed for it. What is the real time to R&R the body?
Alot less time than 17 hours

[Grentarc]

I've had all front and rear timing belts and chains/tensioners/pulleys replaced twice on my high K D3 2.7, as well as a new HP pump fitted on other occasion.
Nobody said anything about having to remove the body for any of it.
If your fuel cooler on top of motor starts to leak, that may require a body off......but same workshop found a work-around for that task as well.
Had it all done at Rover-Tech Perth.
There is a more room on the 2.7 compared to the 3.0 to access the HPFP belt. The 2.7 also does not require the HPFP to be locked with a special tool as it is not timed like the 3.0

[DazzaTD5]

I am down to....
4 hrs body off.
4 hrs body on.

*thats with using new plastic inner guard clips.
*A rear steel bumper takes longer. :mad:
*Spotties with no plugs that go through the grill takes longer. :mad:
*A CB radio cable that goes through the grill takes longer. :mad:
*A ARB bullbar doesnt take any longer as it doesnt get removed completely, only moved forward and supported.

I believe one of the boys at Rovertech is either slightly quicker than me or on par :p

Regards
Daz

[vbrab]

There seems to be a bit of a range in quoted times for body R&R.
No idea of "book" time.
As I am looking to have that done as part of engine change on a D3, would like to know what the recommended time is for R&R.
Some online videos suggest they can get it off in 3 hours, but I expect getting it on (and making sure all connections "connected"), might take a bit longer.
This great link (below) has been posted by jonesy63 in 2015 DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - How To - Body Removal (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic76002.html)
But no real firm times for getting a R&R job.
I figure that 8 hours to R&R might be a good ballpark figure and longer with bull bars no doubt.

[BigJon]

I am pretty sure I can do the fuel pump belt in less than 8 hours.

[Grentarc]

I am pretty sure I can do the fuel pump belt in less than 8 hours.

Is that a 2.7 or a 3.0?

[justinc]

It'd be the 3.0 I'd say. Jon was telling me only just the other day how he enjoyed it so much...😯

Jc

[justinc]

I am down to....
4 hrs body off.
4 hrs body on.

*thats with using new plastic inner guard clips.
*A rear steel bumper takes longer. :mad:
*Spotties with no plugs that go through the grill takes longer. :mad:
*A CB radio cable that goes through the grill takes longer. :mad:
*A ARB bullbar doesnt take any longer as it doesnt get removed completely, only moved forward and supported.

I believe one of the boys at Rovertech is either slightly quicker than me or on par :p

Regards
Daz

Ha ha thats what sidecutters are for Daz....😛

Last one i did was 10 all up. You did well😊

Jc

[DazzaTD5]

Ha ha thats what sidecutters are for Daz....��

Last one i did was 10 all up. You did well��

Jc

Yes but then you have to wire them back up with a plug, its just one of them little things that bite my arse when people dont do the job properly

10 hrs ya say?.....
If you are round my age, then well yeah fair enough time, it is colder over your way.

If you are close to half my age... well then, I've put the challenge out on the table....

Regards
Daz

P.S keep in mind the difference between 8 hrs and 10 hrs is actually nothing.... its 30 mins on each end of the job, or 15 mins more for each hr working.....

[101RRS]

Received my Ford oil pump, Ford crank oil seal, Ford gasket and other Ford seal bits - well actually all except the oil pump are Landrover in Landrover packaging.

The oil pump is a Ford item with FordMoCo in the casting. When I ordered the parts I was told that the gasket did not come with the pump so ordered on - Ford price $73 (more than half the $135 cost of the pump) however it does so I took it back - hmm no on the spot refund - a cheque in the mail or an electronic transfer to your bank account but not via a linked debit card.

So does this look like the Landrover oil pump.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/10/719.jpg (http://s42.photobucket.com/user/gazzz21/media/RRS/20161005_1612181_zpsyopa4xk3.jpg.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/10/720.jpg (http://s42.photobucket.com/user/gazzz21/media/RRS/Oil%20pump_zpsaivcrlsn.jpg.html)

The FordMoCo marking.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/10/710.jpg (http://s42.photobucket.com/user/gazzz21/media/RRS/20161005_1613411_zpsyxi105jw.jpg.html)

Can someone confirm this has the extra webbing to stop the cracking as I am not sure what actually breaks.

Thanks

Garry

[shanegtr]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/10/710.jpg (http://s42.photobucket.com/user/gazzz21/media/RRS/20161005_1613411_zpsyxi105jw.jpg.html)

Can someone confirm this has the extra webbing to stop the cracking as I am not sure what actually breaks.

Thanks

Garry
Yep that looks to be the updated part. That machined face with the thread hole is where the tensioner bolts on. When it cracks that whole section tears aways from the housing. Theres a bit of extra webbing either side to help out

[101RRS]

Thanks Shane - I have had a close look at the oil pump and all that section is outside the "oil sealed" section of the housing. The gasket in that section is does not seem to be keeping oil in so I assume that when it breaks it pulls the gasket out of the crucial areas particularly at that round inlet or outlet area near the top so letting the oil out.

Anyway - irrespective of that the new pump looks the goods.

Garry

[BigJon]

I assume that when it breaks it pulls the gasket out of the crucial areas particularly at that round inlet or outlet area near the top so letting the oil out.



Garry

When it breaks the pistons hit the valves. Any oil leaks are irrelevant at that stage.

[101RRS]

Oh ok - was looking at it differently (tunnel vision) - I thought that it was because of no oil pressure - makes sense.

Thanks - the learning never ends :)

Garry

[JonW]

Quick question for the 2010 tdv6 3.0, is the HPFP timed to the right exhaust cam and if so why? is it not a common rail where the whole fuel rail is at injector pressure?

Only asking as this is the next big job for my 180k km young D4.

[Plane Fixer]

I had my belts done recently and with a basic service it was $2000.
This was a body on job and done at 140000 at my local independent LR specialist vs at the dealer I was quoted $6000 for body off.

[shanegtr]

Quick question for the 2010 tdv6 3.0, is the HPFP timed to the right exhaust cam and if so why? is it not a common rail where the whole fuel rail is at injector pressure?

Only asking as this is the next big job for my 180k km young D4.
I belive the 3.0L engines are timed with the fuel pump. No ideal why they are timed however

[Tombie]

I had my belts done recently and with a basic service it was $2000.
This was a body on job and done at 140000 at my local independent LR specialist vs at the dealer I was quoted $6000 for body off.

Such a variation isn't there..

Adelaide LR Dealer is charging me $2k to do the Belts and service.