Plugger and The Camel [Archive] - Australian Land Rover Owners

Archangel007

15th August 2016, 01:08 PM

Hi Everyone,

I just thought I would start a build thread on here for my son, Mitchell, also known as Plugger (he has been described as playing AFL in same style as one Tony Lockett, hence the monicker...).

At the beginning of the year, Plugger expressed great interest in getting into his first car, at 14, and we wholeheartedly supported him in this endeavor. Being an eclectic sort of lad, his first choice was a Citroen DS. Well we dissuaded him from this route very quickly as the price of one going is stupidly expensive and to restore one would be even more stupidly expensive.

The only other vehicle he wanted to be seen in, he said, was a Series I Land Rover (this from a 14 yo boy - no Commodores in this family!!). We looked around but couldn't find one so we settled on something a bit later. On Gumtree he found and ad that stated "Three Series IIA Land Rovers for sale - $1,750 for the lot"... I rang the ad and found to my surprise the gent with the vehicles was located just down the road from me, 4 hours away, north of Bundaberg. I asked him if he would just sell one of the Landies and he said 'yes', so off we went.

There was a choice of three vehicles, 2 x LWB SIIA'a and one SWB SIIa. The SWB was in the best nick and the most complete. It had a Holden six and was a runner, unlike the other two. So I sent Plugger off to negotiate a price with the farmer (he was very hesitant, but I insisted he learn the skill of negotiation if he was ever going to buy another car in the future). He came back 5 mins later and said "$500 ok Dad?" The deal was done and we loaded it up then and there.

Here are some pics of 'Camel' on the trailer just prior to heading back to Brissie...

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/projects-tutorials/112703d1471237999-plugger-camel-camel-small.jpg
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/projects-tutorials/112704d1471237999-plugger-camel-camel-small2.jpg
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/projects-tutorials/112705d1471237999-plugger-camel-camel-small3.jpg
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/projects-tutorials/112706d1471237999-plugger-camel-camel-small4.jpg

9 hours later we arrived home with our new family member. The wife was pleased that he found, negotiated and paid for a vehicle all by himself and with his own money. I was pleased that he chose the best vehicle and was sensible in his expectations about what $500 could buy. So, now begins the long journey of fully rebuilding Camel and styling him the way Plugger wants. All in all, I think we are off to a pretty good start.

More to come soon.

Cheers,
Tricky (aka Andrew, Plugger's Dad!)

debruiser

15th August 2016, 01:26 PM

Might just be me that can't see your pics... cause I can't see them here either :(

travelrover

15th August 2016, 01:57 PM

Can't see them either :-(

Sent from my iPhone using AULRO mobile app

Archangel007

15th August 2016, 02:11 PM

Damnit. OK, what am I doing wrong??

weeds

15th August 2016, 03:12 PM

I can see thumbnails.........cracking bullbar

JDNSW

15th August 2016, 04:02 PM

I see the pictures in this thread but not the other. Click on the thumbnails and they load in another tab.

Looks like a good buy at that price, as far as I can see from the pictures.

Tell him to do some reading in the Series section, especially rebuild threads. Note that All the Series are very similar, but especially 2/2a/3 - there are more changes during each of these than between them!

John

debruiser

15th August 2016, 04:08 PM

I see them now! nice work. Looks like a fun project :)

Homestar

15th August 2016, 05:36 PM

Attachments were fine, but the links in the post were wrong. Open each attachment and copy the URL, Then paste that back into the post between https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

I've fixed them up for you. :)

Cracking little car as well, will be watching this build with interest. :)

Mick_Marsh

15th August 2016, 05:50 PM

What a treasure.
A S2a SWB wide light.
Seems reasonably complete. Great base for a restoration.

Archangel007

15th August 2016, 06:07 PM

Thankyou HomeStar for the correction.

Dark61

15th August 2016, 06:24 PM

Nice. Are you keeping the Holden or looking for a Rover engine?
cheers,
D

JDNSW

15th August 2016, 08:27 PM

If you are considering returning to the original engine, perhap a first step might be to ask the seller if he still has the original engine stashed away - presumably it needs something done to it, but it is quite possible this may just be rings and bearings, or even just valve stem seals. And it may have been replaced just to get more performance, although most likely it was replaced because dropping in a Holden motor was a lot cheaper than overhauling the Rover engine. This is still probably the case, although the difference is probably less, and the original engine type will make the restored vehicle considerably more valuable.

John

Archangel007

17th August 2016, 08:54 AM

Thanks for all the kind words guys, really nice!!

Our intentions: for Plugger this will be his first car and for now he plans to keep it indefinitely. As a matter-of-fact, on the way home he eluded to a plan he formulated along the lines of After we finish doing up the Camel Dad, I think we should go back to Farmer Gill and grab the other two Landies, and then do them up and sell them for a profit and this will pay for my camper trailer...!! Out of the mouths of babes eh...!! (he has also expressed ideas of restoring an MGB TD as well. He has got the British bug, comes from his mum who is from the Isle of Wight!!)

We are going to keep the Holden six in it. Plugger has ideas of towing a camper trailer etc so this will help in that endeavor. We have a budget also, that we need to stick to, and sourcing and rebuilding a Land Rover engine might just blow that wide open.

For now, its Strip down -> Assessment ->Procurement strategy -> Rebuild -> Enjoy -> (and then possibly Phase II) Evaluate -> Improvement

And through it all I am hoping he learns a lot and understands the costs involved in restoring a car but also the immense pride and self-achievement in doing so.

Can I just say thanks to you all for your support, Plugger and I were a bit overwhelmed by it all and it bolsters him for the labor ahead. I think he is off to a great start - I think he chose well and bought well and this puts us ahead in the game, so fingers crossed we can stay there.

Mick Marsh - what is a "wide light"??

Thanks,
Tricky

JDNSW

17th August 2016, 09:35 AM

.....

Mick Marsh - what is a "wide light"??

Thanks,
Tricky

Landrovers up to 1969 had the headlights set in the radiator support panel, between the mudguards. After that they were moved to the mudguards, as in your example. Only the last couple of years of 2a production had the wide spaced lights, hence much rarer.

John

Surrufus

17th August 2016, 10:05 AM

Mick Marsh - what is a "wide light"??
Tricky

I think "wide light" refers to the headlights being in the fenders and not in the grille.

Archangel007

19th August 2016, 07:32 AM

Thanks guys...

Much rarer - that sounds promising!

mick88

19th August 2016, 07:58 AM

debruiser

19th August 2016, 02:31 PM

......the kitty still needs to be "plump" when you undertake a rebuild.

Couldn't have said it better myself! :)

Archangel007

20th August 2016, 04:23 PM

Well it has come time to start disassembling The Camel down to his last nut and bolt to see exactly what we have, what can be saved and what needs to be replaced.

Plugger himself was up at sparrows with spanner in hand, eager to start the long process of restoration. With weather on our side we began early hoping to have a swag of work done before the BOM-predicted rain moved in this afternoon.

Here is a photo of Plugger hard at it:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=112892&stc=1&d=1471675779

So, by the end of the day, just prior to the rain starting, we had Camel half-stripped so he looked something like this:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=112893&stc=1&d=1471676228

We then covered him back up with the tarp until tomorrow. The roof bars(?), seats and bullbar all went into the trailer and will be dumped at the tip tomorrow - we wont be using these in the restoration. We found a lot of frozen fasteners and rounded bolts - par for the course I guess. Oh, and British Whitworth can be so frustrating!

The things we found out while we were dismantling the car:
>It has free wheeling hubs, I take this as being good. Although they look the same they are different.
>The chassis has some rust - we knew it did as the farmer told us so. How much he was unsure of. We will know the extent in the next few days
>It has a suffix A gearbox - is this a Series III box with full synchros? Comments welcome
>It has some bad corrosion in the bulkhead. We didn't know this and I suspect farmer Gill didn't know either. Once again, par for the course.
>It has the usual assortment of oil leaks and weeps. We will attend to this when we address the rebuild of the various sub-assemblies.
>The front grill panel has been pushed forward 2" to accommodate the Holden 6 and a bigger radiator. If we use a thermo fan the panel can go back in the original position
>It came with a various assortments of parts - spare wheel and tyre, crank handle (no good for a Holden six), rear cabin wall that turns it into a ute (tiny, tiny loadspace, but no roof for this configuration), another early series front panel with the inset headlights, original LR radiator.

I will post more tomorrow when we continue with the tear-down.

Cheers and thanks,
Tricky

P.S. John, I enquired with the Farmer regarding the whereabouts of the original engine - he said it was knackered and not worth saving so it went into landfill. It looks like we shall stick with the Holden six.

67hardtop

20th August 2016, 06:04 PM

Good work there.

Cheers Rod

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Archangel007

21st August 2016, 02:06 PM

As Day two draws to a close we can honestly say we have the Camel in pieces now. Plugger has toiled hard all day to get him to this stage and I think he is enjoying himself. Here is where we are at the end of Day 2:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=112914&stc=1&d=1471753565

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=112915&stc=1&d=1471753565

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=112916&stc=1&d=1471753795

Ok, we have a lot better understanding of the issues that lay before us, namely:
>The chassis is rotten on the drivers side outrigger, drivers side fuel tank bracket and drivers side rear crossmember. The passenger side seems ok. Since Dad (me!) is an Engineer with a fully equipped workshop this is no big deal.
>Bulkhead has some bad corrosion in a few places. To remove it I had to cut the large retaining bolts off that bolt it to the outriggers - both sides. It is completely rusted through just below the lower door hinge on the drivers side. Since replacement parts are available, also no big deal.
>Came across some really ghetto repair jobs to both floors - passenger side more-so than the drivers side. Again, no big deal as we can fabricate and bend up new floors in-house.
>More assortment of bent, broken, rusted, frozen and rounded fasteners - not an issue, they all will be replaced with metric stainless steel fasteners where possible
>Rear tub in good shape
>Front wings in good shape
>Both inner guards in good shape
>All the electrics seemed to be in good shape - we could not find any burnt or frayed wiring on the vehicle
>Front diff seems to be ok
>Rear diff seems to be knackered - a lot of play between crown and pinion
>Different wheel types - the front two wheels are 16" steel but the SWB ones, while the back two and spare are the LWB type
>Front springs are different - one is 9-leaf (Front spring), while the other is 11-leaf (rear spring)
>Steering relay seems to be welded (badly) to the frame - I dont know why this is
>Steering box seems to be in good shape with no play
>All the drag link balljoints are knackered and will need to be replaced
>At a guess, all shocks and steering damper will need to be replaced
>The handbrake clevis was rusted solid, so it got the chop as well (literally) It will need to be replaced.
>The under-seat battery box looked to be in good shape, as well as the other under-seat compartments
>The bonnet is in good nick other than a dent where the re-positioned radiator was located
>Side sills are ok, one slightly bent
>The door tops are knackered - most likely rusted beyond redemption. The posts for the door tops are still in the doors on the drivers side!!
>Doors are in good shape, other than the note above. Both doors do not have locks!
>Rear tailgate is good condition, as are the hinges and locks
>The front frame horns are knackered. The tubes where the bolts for the bumper bar goes through are very flogged out (The Farmer used the little SWB to clear his fire-breaks from time to time, and used the Landie to push over saplings etc, so the bar was continually rocking back and forth). Also the underside of the horns are rusted through
>Engine has major oil leaks - no big deal, it will get overhauled.
>Seat box is in good condition except where the aftermarket buckets were bolted in and the factory rails were cut back
>Flexible brake lines are brittle and perished. They will need replacing.
>Bump stops are hard as granite - all will need replacing
>Fuel tank good, no dents, cracks or leaks
>It came with a heater. Unsure whether this is a demister too

OK, thats about it - I think you get the picture. For the money we paid its still a bargain and the more we work on it the more we love it! Its here to stay and next time it takes to the road it will be a new car with no expense spared (within reason i.e. not going to import a galvanized chassis etc)

Plugger and I sat down last night after dinner and mapped out exactly what he wants in his SWB. I am a little shy to put this up here in case it offends the purists, but here goes...
>He would like a snorkel - NP as we can make a S3 one fit
>He would like a winch
>He doesnt want any standard LR colour - we have settled on a short-list of colours which we will narrow down in the coming week
>He would like a custom front tube bar, and some rock-sliders - NP as we have a fully equipped workshop where we can manufacture all that in-house
>He would like to make it into a hard-top, not a ute. We need to find a hardtop for it
>He would like to keep the standard Landie rims - the big tyre look is out!
>he would like to go back to the standard Landie interior, with SIIA seats etc

Well thats enough typing for one afternoon. Next week we will do some preliminary cleaning then move everything down to the workshop for storage and also the starting of the restoration.

Please feel free to comment on any of the above - especially the gearbox being an A suffix, the different springs on the front and the different rims. More next week.

Cheers,
Tricky

Surrufus

24th August 2016, 11:04 AM

I'd love to do something like this, if I ever had the spare time!

Archangel007

25th August 2016, 07:37 PM

Rod, thanks for the nice words.

Surrefus - it sure is time consuming, we have a system whereby we do a minimum of fours hours on Camel every Saturday - we hope to have him finished by Xmas!! Thats 4 hours x 2 people x 6 months = 208 man hours. Somehow I think we shall be short by a long way!

Anyway, and update....

Plugger and I have started the procurement process - parts sourcing and ordering. It seems that for the most part, parts are cheaper from the UK which I find bizarre - even with the inclusion of postage from the other side of the world.

So, this week we have ordered 4 x hub bearing and seal kits, and some pinion seals. We also saw this for sale on eBay, so we grabbed it - its a S3 snorkel kit - we snavelled it for the princely sum of $99 including postage:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=113046&stc=1&d=1472120641
Apparently all you need to change is the windscreen pivot bolt to something more flush to make it fit a SII or SIIA. We shall see it its that simple.

Plugger and I have discussed at length what colour we are going to paint the Camel. While we had a shortlist of colours, all very similar, we had by this time narrowed it down to two. I went and got a pressure pack gloss enamel can of both colours and did a test colour board for both colours. Because the board was fairly large it was easier to see what the paint would look like as opposed to just a colour chip. The winner - BMW Dakar Yellow with black barwork and wheels:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=113047&stc=1&d=1472121123

Its a really nice colour (the photo doesnt do it justice) and should suit the Landie very well.

Almost Saturday again, which means more Camel-work! I shall update the thread after that session

Cheers,
Tricky

Homestar

26th August 2016, 07:42 AM

That colour scheme will look great. :)

JDNSW

26th August 2016, 02:17 PM

A few points you need to be aware of.

Most important, probably is that the tie rod ends changed at about the start of Series 3. Earlier ones have the clamping section unthreaded, later ones clamp on the thread, which is full length. They are not interchangeable. Clamping threaded against unthreaded, either way, is not secure, and may lead to steering failure (at least one fatal accident is known).

Since the complete links, tube plus TREs are interchangeable, you need to check what you have, and that it is matched (may have been swapped previously), and order the correct parts; and make sure you get what you order - some suppliers don't know the difference.

Second point, do not use stainless steel to hold alloy panels unless electrically insulated from them, as the stainess will cause corrosion of the alloy, which is protected by the original sherardised fasteners.

Only a few locations require the original threads, where the fastener is threaded into the body or other part. Notable places are the hub drive flange bolts(BSF) and the top fasteners on the instrument panel (BA).

John

grey_ghost

26th August 2016, 02:48 PM

Hi Mate,

I agree with Homestar - that colour scheme is going to look great. I have to admit though - I had assumed that you were making a Camel Trophy tribute car!!! :wasntme:

If I can give you a few tips on your restoration project (having spent 4 years doing a ground up restoration on a Series II SWB)..

Photo's, photo's, photo's... Because it took me so long - I sometimes couldn't remember how/where things went... So I took lot's of photo's which made things much easier..

Locked sandwich bags... I used hundreds of these - as I pulled things apart, I would label a bag and put the stuff in it.. Even if you intend on replacing the nuts/bolts/washers - it helps you to know which size, how many, etc..

Wiring Loom... You can purchase entire wiring looms (there is a firm in OZ and a firm in the UK).. I chose to replace the entire loom because my S2 is 56 years old, and some of the wiring was brittle. Plus being a Landy - every owner had "modified" the loom, and I wanted to put things back to standard.. The loom that I bought looked factory - with the correct colour coding as well.

Paint... I've restored 2 Landy's now.. Make sure that whatever paint you choose, you can get plenty of it... The first Landy I did - the company that made the paint stopped selling my particular colour about 3/4 way through my restoration... I took what paint I had left over to get colour matched - and the colour match was terrible! I ended up sourcing the last 2 tins of paint in Victoria (of my particular colour)

Parts.. Just about everything is available. There are many suppliers - just be careful when ordering parts.. I got caught out a few times, ordering the correct part for my vehicle - only to discover that my vehicle had been modified and the correct (original) part wouldn't fit anymore...

Enjoy... The great thing about restoring the Land Rover is that you (and your son) will get to know every part of it. For me that was a steep learning curve.

I'm following this thread with interest.. Good luck!

Cheers,
The Grey Ghost

digger

26th August 2016, 08:55 PM

Some ideas of how she may look, maybe with some big mods in one case :angel:

Good on you guys

https://goo.gl/images/dkLjv6

https://goo.gl/images/a0FGfK

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/254.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/254.jpg

https://goo.gl/images/zld6De

113072

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/254.jpg

Archangel007

29th August 2016, 07:19 AM

Hi Guys,

John - I checked the tie (steering) rod ends and they definitely the screw-in type. So when I order the new parts I will definitely order the same type - thanks for the heads up!

Homestar - I think it will look great too. The larger sample piece gives a better idea of how it will look on the car. He made a good choice.

Digger - some great pics there but what the hell is that last forward Control beast - looks like something out of the future! I think yellow and black will be a great combo, especially the BMW Dakar colour, as it wont make the car look 'safety yellow'...

Grey Ghost - yep, lots of baggies!! The colour is a standard production colour so I can go anywhere and get it mixed as long as I have the right paint code. I think the wiring loom I will do myself. Seems the car is all S2A, sans the Holden six which makes ordering parts easy. Thanks for your insight.

A Quick Update....
News from the weekend. Now that we have the entire car disassembled, inspected and assessed we have decided to move him down to the workshop so the weather wont affect it anymore and we get a parking bay back for visitors. However, while I had him in prime position to do some repair work on the chassis I took that opportunity.

While taking off the front bullbar we noticed that the front frame horns were rotten on the underside where all the dirt and mud had collected and just rusted out the lower plates. The continual rocking back and forth of the bullbar had flogged out the bolt holes, so it was a case of cut out the affected area and make new, rather than try and affect a repair. I did a slash cut at 45-degrees until I had good metal to work with, and also to leave the front spring hangers unaffected as they seemed to be very solid.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=113167&stc=1&d=1472422416

Drivers side - the worst:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=113169&stc=1&d=1472422416

Passenger side - not too bad but had signs of previous ghetto-like repairs
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=113168&stc=1&d=1472422416

So, I had some 75x75x3mm RHS lying around and I decided to go to work. Firstly I drilled some 16mm holes in the top and bottom faces to accept some 16x2mm crush tubes. I countersunk the faces to get a good welding area then ground them flush. Now we have some sturdy 12mm mounting holes to accept the new winchbar and winch. These four bolts will be reinforced by other mounting points yet to be decided, but I think that the more fixing points the better.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=113166&stc=1&d=1472422738

Next was a pair of encaps to seal off the tube ends. I made these out of 5mm steel so I could use them as recovery points for Camel. In hindsight I should have welded some captive nuts on the inside to allow for this, but I didn't have the recovery hardware at hand so I didn't know the fixing spacing or sizing - this will be done at a later date. It will also enhance the locating of the winch bar:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=113165&stc=1&d=1472422738

More...

Archangel007

29th August 2016, 07:40 AM

Continued...

Now it was a simple job of mating the two cuts, aligning and making sure the new parts were plumb and square. Then weld on:

Passenger side:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=113171&stc=1&d=1472423499

Drivers side:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=113173&stc=1&d=1472423499

Passenger rail underside:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=113170&stc=1&d=1472423499

Drivers rail underside:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=113172&stc=1&d=1472423499

Things to note - there had been repairs to these sections before, badly!! It seems that the previous repairer had removed the chassis number somehow. Luckily the mod plate has the chassis number on it!! I also extended the frame horns out another 35mm to allow for the winchbar fixings to be tightened without getting impeded by the spring mounts. Hopefully now this repair will see-out the rest of Camel's lifetime until more repairs may be needed well into the future.

More...

Archangel007

29th August 2016, 07:53 AM

Continued...

I also took the opportunity to affect some repairs to the frame rails themselves where the rust had compromised the chassis rail integrity.

Once again, it was a case of cut out the cancerous area back to good metal, fabricate a replacement part out of 2mm plate, weld in and then grind smooth.

Passenger side rail, before the first crossmember on the outside:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=113179&stc=1&d=1472424646

Repair affected and ground smooth:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=113181&stc=1&d=1472424646

Front crossmember on the inside near the steering relay:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=113180&stc=1&d=1472424900

Repair affected and ground smooth:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=113182&stc=1&d=1472424646

Points to note - in the last pics you can see where the steering relay box has been welded in, badly. Not sure why this is but it will have to come out to be overhauled. There are some other signs of cancer and cancer-repair further along the chassis but this will have to be dealt with at a later date. By this time it was getting towards beer-o'clock and knock-off time. More next week.

Cheers and thanks for all the support and kind words,
Tricky

Ben_Burdett

29th August 2016, 08:52 AM

Great work! If you are planning to remove the steering relay I would recommend doing this before repairing the chassis around it. It's not going to come out easy and in some case's people have had to cut the chassis out to remove it. Have fun 😀

debruiser

31st August 2016, 08:00 PM

ahhh.... the good ol' days of cutting and shutting a chassis... i remember them fondly, when i was working on Frank the series 3. Best bit is you feel like you've achieved something after a hard days work!

Keep up the work and pics... keeps me entertained! and reminiscing :D

Archangel007

3rd September 2016, 05:02 PM

Hi Guys n Girls,

Ben - Thanks for the kind words. Not so sure about the relay box - apparently there is a big spring inside that makes disassembly/reassembly very difficult. Might need some advice on this. Does much go wrong with them? I just wanted every mechanical item on my sons Rover in tip top condition!

Debruiser - thanks also for the kind. Glad this build is taking you back.....

Update:
On the Saturday, a week after we bought Camel home, we dropped into a place called British Offroad at Chevallum on the Sunshine Coast. Really nice bunch of blokes and all are Land/Range Rover nutz!! They have a stack of cars they are wrecking and they also stock new/replacement pars. That is going to come in handy.

During the course of the discussion we mentioned that Pluggers Camel did not come with a roof, only the rear wall. What we were chasing was a hardtop roof to turn him into a shorty wagon (you guys know what I'm talking about - sorry about the wrong nomenclature!!).... British Offroad mentioned that they are like rocking horse poop, very rare and if you did come across one it would be worth anywhere from $800-1000 in good nick. They didnt have one and they gave us the name of a wrecker in Gympie who also didnt have one. Dismayed, we drove wondering where the hell we were going to get a hardtop for Plugger.

That Sunday night, after scanning Gumtree online (in the bath, with the Tab!) I noticed an ad for Series land Rover parts. The ad read "Series II/IIA parts for sale, fenders, windscreen and roof...". I messaged the seller and low and behold, the roof was in fact a complete hardtop - Saints be praised!! I told him I would buy it sight unseen (ballsy) and would pickup tomorrow. The young guy said he had school tomorrow and would not be home until 3.30pm. Desperate not to miss out I told him I could be there at 6.30am and he agreed.

As the story goes he was building up a Series IIA SWB too but halfway through the project, after a year of collecting bits, he and his dad decided that the chassis was too far gone to continue with the restoration. Sad! But at least some of the bits would go into Camel. I parted with $150 and got the hardtop, windscreen assembly, a better bonnet than Camels existing one, and a LH Guard (the RHS one was toast). I was ecstatic with the buy!!
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=113443&stc=1&d=1472887872

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=113445&stc=1&d=1472887872

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=113446&stc=1&d=1472887872

I must say it is in great condition (sans the glass) and a really, really good buy!! The LR Gods must be smiling on us...

Today, Plugger and I cleaned everything and humped it down to the bottom shed, the workshop, for storage. Threat of inclement weather has warranted the move and it also means we get two parking bays back. Here is a shot of all the parts prior to storage. You can see the 2nd green bonnet that was purchased with the hardtop as opposed to the mustard one that came with Camel. The chassis is yet to come down. The guards, tray, seatbox etc was stored up in the loft, while all the mechanical parts and chassis was stored at the back of the shop - where we can access them more easily. Here is a shot of most of the bits pressure washed prior to storage - we have some spare bits like the S1/S2 grill with lights etc which we would like to pass onto someone else to help with their restoration when Camel is all finished:

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=113451&stc=1&d=1472889745

Contd.....

Archangel007

3rd September 2016, 05:33 PM

Contd...

I have now had a more detailed investigation of the chassis. Some issues to note:
>The rear crossmember is rotten on the drivers side - definite replacement
>The drivers side outrigger is toast - definite replacement
>The drivers side fuel tank bracket is also toast - another replcement
>The chassis number is missing - presumably plated over and/or removed. Luckily it is stamped on the compliance plate!
>The ghetto permanent towbar will be replaced with a HD item with a removable tongue ala Hayman Reese etc

Enjoy the Pics:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=113453&stc=1&d=1472891740

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=113454&stc=1&d=1472891740

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=113457&stc=1&d=1472891740

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=113456&stc=1&d=1472891740

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=113455&stc=1&d=1472891740

That's it for now, more through the week.

Cheers,
Tricky

grey_ghost

3rd September 2016, 07:29 PM

Hi Tricky,

I might be on the wrong page here... But in your last post you mention that the chassis number is missing and I noticed a picture of a front dumb iron?

The chassis number should be stamped on the LHS rear spring hanger..

I would recommend stamping the chassis there - it will probably make registration easier....

Cheers,
GG

Archangel007

3rd September 2016, 09:15 PM

Hey GG,

Rear you say?? I looked up on the interweb and it said the front RHS spring hanger, or just above. Maybe I got that wrong!

Thanks, I will have a look tomorrow....

Cheers,
Tricky

JDNSW

3rd September 2016, 09:34 PM

UK Home market ones were on the RH front - Australian built ones on the spring hanger at the back of the LH rear spring.

John

Archangel007

7th September 2016, 08:41 AM

Thanks John and GG for their input!

I went and checked in that location this morning - LHS rear spring hanger - no number!! Either the number has been stamped into the steel so lightly that my wire-brushing (by hand) and some superficial corrosion has removed it, or it was never there in the first place...!!

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=113599&stc=1&d=1473205561

Thoughts?

Cheers,
Tricky

67hardtop

7th September 2016, 01:10 PM

Try a bit lower on the actual spring hanger just above the bush i think.

Cheers Rod

Sent from my GT-I9507 using AULRO mobile app

grey_ghost

7th September 2016, 03:39 PM

Hi Tricky,

Here is my Chassis Number - on the LHS spring hanger:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/09/867.jpg

In the above pic - I had the rear cross member replaced, so the metal above my spring hanger looks different to the metal on the spring hanger..

If I was you - I would just stamp the chassis number on the spring hanger so that when you register it you don't have any issues.. It's unlikely that most mechanics would know the "proper" location of the chassis number anyway..

Your picture is tricky to see - but I could almost swear that I can see some numbers, above the spring eye on the flat grey metal... 525 ??

Cheers,
GG.

JDNSW

7th September 2016, 04:04 PM

If no number shows up, try polishing it with fine wet and dry, and then etching it with acid - hydrochloric is likely to be the most readily available.

John

debruiser

7th September 2016, 04:09 PM

Gee, I dumped a swb series roof about a month ago.... i've still got the sides though. didnt' realise anyone wanted them.

Archangel007

11th September 2016, 10:18 AM

Rod, John and GG - I will have another crack at the chassis number. Not saying its not there, but it sure is elusive!!

Debruiser - :o

Update - Disassembly day 4
Today was cleaning and dismantling day. The way we stacked the camel in the shed allowed us to work on assemblies one at a time - as space was at a premium in the shop! Most of the bulky items went into the loft - guards, seat box etc, while the heaviest parts remained at floor level - chassis, front and rear axle assemblies etc.

On top of the chassis and closest to the door was the front axle assembly. It was time to take that apart and see what was what. I set the axle up on a set of stands and let Plugger go for it. Here is the lad in action (you will notice the Haynes manual open in the lower left of picture for him to refer back to):
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=113757&stc=1&d=1473555192

After 55 years of abuse, you expect some of the nuts to be frozen and bolts to be seized - we were not disappointed. The spring hanger U-bolts were knackered and only half came off (angle grinder to the rescue!!). I even had to get the rattle gun out to get some of the wheel nuts off. However, at the end of the day, we had it stripped down to its basics components. Thanks to the innovative Holden suspension oiling system, most of the front assembly was covered in well oiled grease and grime - while it took some elbow grease to get off, at least they were well protected from corrosion!! After 4 hours of work:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=113758&stc=1&d=1473555975

Things to note: The free-wheeling hubs at the front are different, but the same. They are identical in terms of look and function but are just a different brand. Not sure if I will do anything about this but if anyone out there in Land Rover land has one of these that are the same as the ones I have let me know if you want to part with it - either one is fine!!

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=113760&stc=1&d=1473556552

Also, the front springs are not the same - one is a 9-leaf and one is an 11-leaf. On the hunt now for another spring to match up to the ones we have. I take it the 9-leaf is the correct spring for the front of the SWB S2A???
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=113761&stc=1&d=1473556552

And finally - no oil in the diff - at all!!! Opened the drain to let things out and nothing. Cracked the front housing and nothing!! Water ingress and rust was evident but nothing severe. There is a little bit of play in the front diff, but not much - being the front assembly which will be rarely used, I thinks its acceptable. I will have a more detailed inspection next week when we have a poke around inside!!

Cheers and thanks,
Tricky

JDNSW

11th September 2016, 08:00 PM

That 11-leaf spring has the shortest and second shortest leaves duplicated. (I wonder why?)

No spring would have ever been made that way. If you remove these extra leaves you will have similar springs (note that the RH one should have more camber than the left one (same at the back). I think the extra leaves must have been added in the field for some reason.

In any case, you need to disassemble all the springs, clean the leaves and paint and lubricate them.

John

Walruslike

12th September 2016, 06:06 AM

Wow.... just wow.... Your project is awesome. I don't have the skill, patience, or stick-to-it-iveness that a project like this requires but I sure wish I did. :)

I'm grateful to you for sharing so freely your journey and wish you and your amazing son the very best of British luck!

Archangel007

13th September 2016, 06:40 PM

stealth

13th September 2016, 09:12 PM

John - I am on the hunt now for a new spring. I will take note of your comments but hey - someone made that one!!

Walrus - wow right back!! Thanks for the very, very kind words and yes, my son is pretty amazing I reckon!!

Cheers,
Tricky

Looks to me that someone has added the extra leaves to accommodate a sagging Spring maybe. I would strip them both and reset them with equal number of leaves. Sandblast, paint and new centre bolt and rebush them. Not that hard to do. Just need a big hammer and a fit young kid. Good job for Plugger. The hammering bit I mean.

Pedro_The_Swift

14th September 2016, 05:49 AM

You must have been waiting with baited breath all these years to see what Plugger chose,,
lucky for us it wasnt wind surfing--;):cool:

It will look brilliant in those colours:D

Archangel007

14th September 2016, 08:52 AM

Hi Stealth - yes, I might do just that. There is a guy local who does all that stuff - I might just cruise around to his shop and find out how much. Like I said, I really don't want to do this twice. All new bushes (chassis and spring), hanger bolts, hangers and U-bolts have all been ordered.

Pedro - He has always been his own man Plugger. At first he wanted a Citroen DS, until we persuaded him against the idea, so an old Landy was it. He doesnt like new cars - says they have no character and they all look the same. He is somewhat eclectic, and very individual! I think this project will do a lot of character building!! Yes, I think the colours will look quite smart - as long as Dad can geta good finish off the gun!!! [biggrin]

It is really nice to know he has some friends on the forum, Plugger and I both thank you all!!

Cheers,
Tricky

JDNSW

14th September 2016, 10:13 AM

The DS is perhaps even more interesting than the Landrover, but more difficult to work on and much more expensive (and harder) for parts. (I have owned D type Citroens for over 45 years)

John

Archangel007

15th September 2016, 06:15 PM

John - You certainly have had some eclectic cars. Yes, parts would have been a nightmare, even if we could have found one in restorable condition it would just not have been economically viable with the budget we have.

OK Update time....
I loaded up the springs and took them around to our local spring guru - Paul from Redcliffe Spring and Suspension. Paul has been in the business for well over 30 years and he is the go-to man for these kind of issues. After inspecting the springs Paul said the cost would be at least $300 to have the front springs overhauled, matched and reset. If we take into account that the rear springs - being the same age and condition - will need to have the same treatment as well the price is now $600+....

Paul and I go onto the topic of parabolic springs for the Land Rover and he could not speak highly enough of them. He said the ride was far superior to anything that a leaf spring could deliver, with better handling, wheel articulation and bump absorption. Plus he said that under normal use (not talking about hard core off-road competitions etc) that the parabolic spring should last the life of the vehicle as wear due to friction and corrosion aren't really a concern - the bane of normal leaf springs!

Now, when I told Paul that I have seen a full set of Parabolic springs for under AUD$900 he said that the increase in ride quality alone would be worth the extra $300 over getting Camels original springs overhauled!! But, not included in this price is the cost of purchasing extended HD gas shocks to match the parabolic springs. Its another $500 or so. Paul expressed very implicitly that the uprated shocks need to purchased as well to alleviate the body roll that can become evident with Parabolics.

Now, my question to the general land Rover community is.....Are parabolic springs really that good? Seeing as Camel has the potential to become my sons daily driver, it looks like Parabolics are the way to go. However, buying them is going to blow the budget wide open. This is the only con, while the pro's are a mile long - nothwithstanding that now would be a good time to grab them seeing as Camel is already disassembled.

So, my questions go out to owners of Series LR either LWB or SWB who have them fitted:
1. Is the ride and handling light years ahead of standard leaf springs?
2. Have you ever broken one
3. Obviously wheel articulation is better, but how much better?
4. Lift - how much and was there any sag
5. Load carrying ability - compromised or not?
6. And finally brand... I read this article Parabolic Springs (http://www.parabolicspring.com/) which pretty much bagged every brand of Parabolic springs except Heystee.... Obviously Rocky Mountian seem to be the most popular but has anybody had bad experiences with them??

I expressly mentioned Rocky Mountain as I have a pallet of Corvette suspension bits coming over from the USA and the freight could be nil. However, this price is pretty hard to beat 4wdIndustries - Land Rover Series SWB Parabolic Springs 73588 & 73589- Two Leaf Kit | 4wd Industries - Selling New and Used Vehicles, Genuine and High Quality Aftermarket parts In Maitland and around Australia (http://4wdindustries.com.au/land-rover-series-swb-parabolic-springs-73588-73589-two-leaf-kit.html) from 4WD Industries...

Can I please get some feedback from you guys - the good, the bad and the ugly.

Thanks,
Tricky

Homestar

15th September 2016, 06:39 PM

I've just bought a full set of parabolics, but the vehcile is a way off being back on the road to test them. My 101 has factory parabolics and they've been on there for 40 years without sagging, issue or breaking so I wouldn't worry about that.

There seems to be the odd person that has trouble getting the heights right, and I've seen posts on LR forums from people that have had 1 spring colapse over a fairly short period of time - both the Britpart units and the Rocky Mountain ones, but I think it's propab.y fair to say they are few and far between.

I bought the Britpart ones as they were heaps cheaper and all the reviews I've read on global forums say they work as well as the RM units, but if you go that route you wouldn't go far wrong either.

If you go for a soft enough spring rate to be comforatable you will lose carrying capacity, but if your not going to fully load it all the time it won't be a problem.

Those that actually run them will chime in im sure, but everything I've heard about the ride has been positive. :)

Well worth the extra dollars if it's going to be a daily driver.

Oh, and last time I looked 4wd industries were out of stock of the rears for a 109 I think, but they should have some back in stock soon I would think.

debruiser

15th September 2016, 07:17 PM

Dont' quote me, but I think that 4wd industries order them when you order them.... no stock kept. Seems to be the way they operate, I got a gearbox/trans rebuilt and they ahd stuff listed on the site, but then told me they had to order it in (not taht it takes long, only a couple weeks)

I'm keen to throw paras under my SWB! but have to save up for them :)

JDNSW

15th September 2016, 07:30 PM

Let's think about how these springs work. Leaf springs, as fitted to Series Landrovers, have three major functions.

1. To provide a sprung support for the vehicle

2. To locate the axles

3. To handle braking and acceleration torque loads on the axle housings

4. To provide some damping by interleaf friction.

Parabolic springs do all of these except 4. (note that coil springs or airbags on other Landrovers only do (1))

The load on these springs decreases from the U-bolts to the spring eye, and to spread the strain or bending evenly along the spring according to the load, the original springs are fitted with a large number of leaves, of varying length, to effectively taper the spring according to this load imposed at each point along the spring. So-called parabolic springs achieve this by having only a very few leaves, usually two or three, but instead of varying the length, the thickness is varied along the length, this being a parabolic function.

The advantage of the parabolic springs is primarily that they reduce to a very low and constant figure the interleaf friction (usually contact between leaves is only at the ends, and is via a nylon block). This also means that there is no possibility of the springs developing a wear step at the end of each shorter leaf on the bottom of the next leaf, which causes a harsh ride on small bumps.

A further advantage of parabolic springs is that they can be made to closely duplicate the spring rates of the originals (not to claim that they actually do so). This is difficult to do with new leaf springs, as the original leaf thickness is no longer made, so that new springs (from about 1980 I think) have somewhat different performance.

The drawbacks of parabolics are several. Since there is essentially no frictional damping, they must be used with non-standard shock absorbers, as with the original type they will be underdamped.

Another problem is that as far as I know, they are not available 'handed'. All Series Landrovers have different left and right springs, as otherwise, having long travel suspension and no sway bars, they will inevitably lean, usually to the driver's side.

Further, if a leaf breaks on a parabolic spring, it is likely to disable the vehicle, since each leaf carries such a large proportion of the load. With the conventional spring, even breaking the main leaf is not a serious issue, as the second leaf wraps round it at each end, and it is only perhaps 10% of the spring strength.

Claims are usually made for a far better ride and handling of parabolics compared to conventional springs, but it must be realised that most of these comparisons come from owners who have replaced completely knackered springs! Another point to consider is that many Landrovers were fitted with heavy duty springs from new (including all military ones), and these inevitably give a harsh ride when empty. Of course it rides better when these are replaced with standard strength springs, be they parabolic or conventional.

In Australia, where salt is not used on roads, most old springs can be easily revived, as discussed earlier in this thread, for far less than new parabolics will cost. And there have been reports of early failures of some of the cheaper parabolics, so perhaps that is something to watch.

I hope this discussion helps.

John

Homestar

16th September 2016, 05:22 AM

As always John, very well written.

I just thought as a side note about howthe original leaves can give a harsh ride, I now have a decision to make with my Hilux - rough as guts when empty as most utes are, but I picked up 6 truck trailer drums the other day and the ride is now like silk (well, not quite, but much smoother).... :D. I'm thinking of just leaving them in there. ;)

Moral of the story is that if the vehcile is not going to get heavily loaded, then look at a spring rate that will work better at lighter loads. I've gone to parabolics in the back of the series 3 - which is a tray, but it won't get heavily loaded and if I stuck the original springs back in, it wouldn't be much fun to drive.

JDNSW

16th September 2016, 05:48 AM

Actually, with my 2a (ex-army, lwb) I have transformed the ride - not by fitting parabolics, which would not be practical, as it is regularly heavily loaded.

I managed to find a pair of "station wagon" springs. These are dual rate, and have resulted in a major improvement in ride when empty. But they are not readily available. Fortunately, I spotted them advertised as "heavy duty" springs, which they are not.

John

mick88

16th September 2016, 11:44 AM

I run parabolics on my series 3 shorty and they are great, but 100kg in the back makes all the difference. Fitting them was a matter of necessity as the originals worked well when frequently lubricated with Innox, however they were badly grooved and worn.
Something worth noting is the Mercedes Benz Sprinters vans run a true parabolic spring (single rear leaf), and they seem to do the job and hold up well. The vehicles are sold internationally and used from goods carriers, to ambulances, where there is a demand for a compromise between high speed stability, and a ride that provides comfort for the occupants.

Cheers, Mick.

Archangel007

18th September 2016, 09:28 AM

Mick, John Homestar and Debruiser - thanks for all responding!!

From the information I have received here, from what I have researched online and from what Paul (Redcliffe Spring and Suspension) has stated I think its unanimous - Parabolic springs are the way to go!

To this end, I have contacted 4x4 Industries, Rocky Mountain, Paddock Spares, British Off-Road and Britparts for price on availability of a full set. It seems that prices vary wildly!!

>While 4x4 Industries list a full set, the front set only for $345 plus freight while a full set for $890 plus freight they are nil stock and dont know when they will be restocked. A full set of four Pro Comp shocks were $440
>British Off-Road have a front set for $484. Pro-Comp shocks an additional $102. I didn't inquire about a full set. I expect at least $900...
>Rocky Mountain UK have a full set listed at 520 pounds - AUD$902 plus freight to Oz (Holy cow!!)
>Rocky Mountain USA (actually Canada) has the fronts listed for USD$246 (AUD$328) or all four for USD$506 (AUD$675) plus freight to OZ!! A full set of shocks & straps from RM are USD$240 (AUD$320) plus freight
>Britparts are a bit slow in getting back to me with a price and availability but I do believe they are supplied by RM
>Paddock Spares seem to be the best value. They stock two different brands - OEM and GME. OEM for fronts only is 110 pounds (AUD$190) while all four are 280 pounds (AUD$486). For the GME brand they are slightly cheaper at 97 pounds (AUD$168) and 232 pounds (AUD$402) respectively. All four Pro Comp shocks from Paddocks is 110 pounds (AUD$190). All these prices are plus freight to Oz of course.

It seems in terms of pricing that Paddocks is the clear winner. I have researched if there is any bad press regarding the Paddock products and I am yet to find any. So, if we have a look at four springs and four shocks the price comes to 390 pounds (AUD$677) plus freight. This is for the OEM Brand which is slightly more expensive but it also comes with a 24-month warranty as opposed to the GME brand which is only 12-months (not that this would mean a great deal in Oz...). The cost, I think is acceptable. So we applied to the Chancellor of the Exchequer for and increase to the budget and this was granted!! I have contacted Paddock Spares for a freight cost and they are yet to get back to me - hopefully in the order of 100 pounds or less!!

Ok, some questions for the educated. Paddock spares carry two different brands of parabolic springs are previously mentioned. The fronts are identical but the rears are different...
OEM Brand:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=114057&stc=1&d=1474157235

GME Brand:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=114058&stc=1&d=1474157235

As you can see the OEM brand seems to employ a 'helper spring' as opposed to 3 leafs in constant 'play' (for want of a better word). My thought process would think that the OEM spring would be better for wheel articulation and ride etc as the 'helper spring' would only come into play under heavy loads or maximum compression - what are peoples thoughts and which would you choose??

I think we will pull the trigger on these springs this week and get them here ASAP.

Also, through the week some other bits n pieces started arriving. 4 x Hub bearing and seals kits from R&C
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=114062&stc=1&d=1474158723

and 2 x pinion seals from Crossland Restorations.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=114063&stc=1&d=1474158723

Cheers and thanks,
Tricky

Archangel007

18th September 2016, 09:58 AM

Hi Everyone,

Just a real quick update as I have already posted today and you guys might be getting sick of the long-winded posts with a thousand questions....

More disassembly of the front suspension yesterday, with Plugger doing some more detailed cleaning of the disassembled parts.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=114064&stc=1&d=1474160435

Seals, bearings and cups were punched out as new items arrived through the week - see previous post. The half-shaft bearings were in a sorry state as were the wheel (hub) bearings
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=114066&stc=1&d=1474160435

and tapered swivel-pin bearings...
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=114065&stc=1&d=1474160435

Finally after a few hours we had them all cleaned and washed and drying in the sun:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=114072&stc=1&d=1474160435

Put away and almost ready for painting next week:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=114073&stc=1&d=1474160435

Cheers,
Tricky

67hardtop

18th September 2016, 10:13 AM

Hi Everyone,

Just a real quick update as I have already posted today and you guys might be getting sick of the long-winded posts....

Never. You post as much as you want. We are all hooked on old Land Rovers and we all want to see what you and others are doing so us slackers (me mostly) can get motivated to get on with it. I would love to have my own son/sons helping me, but they have no interest in their dad or what he's doing. Keep up with the postings and pics. Lots of pics. We love pics. Did i mention taking lots of pics?

Cheers Rod

Sent from my GT-I9507 using AULRO mobile app

mick88

20th September 2016, 07:32 AM

Tricky,
great posts, keep it up.
I would much rather read a good Land Rover thread about a strip down, rebuild, or trip report than watch the rubbish that is on TV. :)
As for the parabolics, I have the version with the helper spring and find them to be good. At first I was worried the lazy leaf might snag on debris
in the scrub, but so far it has never happened. Once fitted to the vehicle the rubber buffer on that helper leaf actually just contacts the leaf above it. I find that with little or minimal weight in the tub that it makes a bit of a clunk when I drive over a railway crossing or similar, but a bit of extra weight in the tub will eliminate that. On a trip fully loaded they are a dream, the ride is exceptionally good, especially considering it's a forty odd year old vehicle.
When I first fitted the parabolics about 8-9 years back I stayed with the original shockies which didn't really cause any issues. However I do not go rock crawling or anything like that where extreme articulation is required. A couple of years ago I fitted a full set of the extended length shocks suited to parabolics, from Paddocks. To be honest I haven't really noticed much difference with the new shocks, but it looks nicer if you stick your head under the guard and have a squizz. ;)

Cheers, Mick.

Dinty

20th September 2016, 05:32 PM

I have enjoyed reading this thread, it brings back lots of memories, just something to think about re the Holden 6, the camshaft has a 'fibre' wheel timing gear and can self destruct without warning, over the years with all the Land Rovers that I have owned, the Holden powered ones all got the 'Alloy' timing gear for the camshaft, it is a little noisey but a good investment in my opinion, here is a link to the item
JP Performance Holden 6 Timing Gears EH HZ VB VK Aluminium Helical | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/JP-PERFORMANCE-Holden-6-Timing-Gears-EH-HZ-VB-VK-ALUMINIUM-HELICAL-/252349151778)
anyway I'm sure 'Plugger' will enjoy the experience of 'how to' and it appears that you have the plan laid out in your head which is good as there is a way to go about this type of work, damn good to see, when I was doing my projects I did something to it everyday without fail, anyway cheers and looking forward to the next installment, Dennis

mick88

21st September 2016, 07:47 AM

Dennis I don't think the compressed goat dung timing gears are available any more. I have rebuilt a couple Holden donks recently and when replacing the timing gears the only ones I could get were alloy, which is what I wanted anyway. I did not try the local GMH dealer, perhaps they still stock them.

Cheers, Mick.

Archangel007

21st September 2016, 04:18 PM

Rod - thanks heaps for your encouraging words. Its a pity your sons don't share your passion, I find that sad. Plugger is my best mate, and we do (almost) everything together!

Mick & Dennis - thanks guys, its on the 'To-Do' list for sure.

Quick Update on Procurement - Plugger has always wanted a good set of driving lights for camel. and being the environmentally conscientious lad that he is he wanted LED. So we saw this light bar for sale on Grays Online and we grabbed it. Its a re-branded Phillips unit and uses genuine 10W CREE LED's. Understanding that they are all made in China these days the quality might be suspect but the price was sure right. We tested it from the end of our (long) driveway and it gave good light coverage way past the driveway, across the road and into the neighbors yard (around 150m) so it cant be too bad. This will be fitted on the underside of the roofrack where the roofline slopes down to meet the windscreen. It has 20x10W CREE's giving a total of 200W. The outside four on each end are flood pattern, while the centre 12 LED's are all spot! Cost - $147 including freight to our door.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=114240&stc=1&d=1474441132

We found this winch on eBay. A guy had bought it a few years ago and never installed it on his 4x4. So we made a bid and low-and-behold we won it for the princely sum of $151. Its 8000lbs which should be heaps for a SWB Landrover. I know its not a Warn but for the price it was too hard to pass up. Even if it saves him just the once, then its worth it. I am hoping it will work fine for years to come.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=114241&stc=1&d=1474441132

And finally, to take some of the weight off the front end - some 10mm genuine SK75 Dyneema rope. This will save possibly 20kg off the front end and also the risk of serious injury versus a steel rope is greatly reduced. Also it wont fray, rust or kink like the steel rope. It will also save installing the roller fairlead that came with the winch in favour of the billet machined aluminium hawse fairlead that came with the rope - more weight saving there!! The breaking strain for the Dyneema rope is 10700kg, which far exceeds the winch by a factor of almost four! Cost - $95
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=114242&stc=1&d=1474441132

That's about it. More to come from the weekend. If the weather is fine, its paintin' time!!

Cheers,
Tricky

Archangel007

26th September 2016, 10:50 AM

Hi Gang,

Well the weather was kind over the weekend so it was time to start the refurbishment process on the front suspension assembly.

On the Saturday Plugger and I did the final clean of the parts prior to painting - this consisted mainly of wire-wheeling the parts to get all the old paint off the parts and get them down to bare metal. We also decided to paint the front propshaft to get it nice and clean and protected as well. The rubber boot that covers the telescoping splines was knackered so that will need to be replaced - about $15 from memory. Here is a shot of Plugger hard at cleaning the diff housing in preparation for paint:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=114458&stc=1&d=1474854639

And also the front propshaft - it was an oily, greasy, grime-caked mess:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=114457&stc=1&d=1474853769

And here is the wonder-kid again at the blast cabinet sand-blasting the worst of the parts - mainly just surface rust as opposed to grease n grime:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=114461&stc=1&d=1474854716

And finally, the parts ready for paint sans the diff housing (not in shot):
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=114462&stc=1&d=1474854716

And finally, there was the masking - and lots of it. It didnt faze him too much, I think he even kind of enjoyed it - kind of.....:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=114460&stc=1&d=1474854837

More.....

Homestar

26th September 2016, 10:58 AM

Great progress, I love rebuild threads. :).

Have you thought about lashing out on some disk brakes for the front by any chance? I know they're not in everyone's budget but with the young bloke tooling about in it, just a thought. :)

I'm happy for you to tell me to bugger off and mind my own business too if I'm prying. :D

Archangel007

26th September 2016, 11:15 AM

Continued...

Still on day 1, Saturday, we decided to get the etch priming done this day and leave the top-coating for Sunday. That would allow the primer a full 12-hours or more to cure before being top coated.

The two palms outside the shed along the driveway made an excellent spot to hang a rope-line between them to hang the parts on. Because there was so many parts we had to do them in two batches. The diff housing and the steering rods we put on a bed sheet on the driveway and painted them on the concrete - they were way too heavy to suspend from a rope!

Batch Number 1 - cleaned and masked ready for etch priming:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=114464&stc=1&d=1474856051

And primed:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=114465&stc=1&d=1474856168

Batch number 2 - cleaned and masked ready for etch priming:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=114466&stc=1&d=1474856168

And primed:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=114470&stc=1&d=1474856388

And the diff housing and steering rods ready primed (no before shot sorry!):
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=114471&stc=1&d=1474856388

We let all that dry for a few hours then hung them up in the shed until tomorrow when they would get their nice new shiny topcoat. That was it for Saturday, it had been (almost) an 8 hour day by the time we had finished. It was definitely beer-o'clock once we had finished!!

More.....

Archangel007

26th September 2016, 11:51 AM

Continued....

Sunday, Day 2. Dawn greeted us with slightly overcast skies but the forecast was for good weather, and definitely no rain. Perfect weather for doing some spray painting. The etch primer had dried nice and hard so it should be a doddle to just take the parts outside again and hang them up ready for their nice new shiny coats of black. We bought some Motorspray Chassis Paint from the local paint store as it was what they recommended. The Etch primer we used the day before was the proper etch for that paint - also by Motorspray. I was hoping it would do the job and we would not have to go to some expensive 2-pack system or POR15 or KBS or some such other - we had a budget to stick to!

So, we hung batch one on the line again, and gave them three coats of the black semi-gloss enamel. The paint came off the gun just fine and coated evenly and shiny. Good preparation ensured this. I thinned the paint to 15% as per the instructions and it laid up just fine. I would recommend using this paint to anyone else thinking of doing this work as it goes on so easily - and I am no gun with the gun :angel:!!!!!

Here is batch 2 already with the 3 coats on and back in the shed (it was the last to go in so first to come out). Full cure time was 24 hours:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=114476&stc=1&d=1474858013

Batch 1 with 3 coats just waiting for the paint to flash off before being moved (learned this lesson first hand when I went to move the steering arm from batch 2 and dropped it in the dirt :censored:):
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=114477&stc=1&d=1474858013

Diff housing and steering rods with 3 coats (notice the lengthening shadows):
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=114478&stc=1&d=1474858013

And just for a bit of bling - the swivel housings with 3 coats of BMW Dakar Yellow - the same pressure pack rattle can I used to do the test board with. Looks great I think and Plugger thought so too:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=114479&stc=1&d=1474858013

Well that was it for Day 2. It was about 2.30pm by the time we finished so it was time to pack up and break for a beer. All-in-all it was a very successful and rewarding weekend. Plugger had a bit of a whinge Saturday about all the prep work involved but even he said it was all worthwhile - (understandable as he is usually kicking goals on a Sunday - boys will be boys!!)

Still waiting on a few parts prior to reassembly (parabolic springs etc, but we are hellishly close now!

Cheers,
Andrew

Dinty

27th September 2016, 07:44 AM

stealth

28th September 2016, 07:35 PM

You need to use an old potato sack (or a big dark old beach towel) over your head when using the grit blast cabinet, it will block out all unnecessary light, I have used that method for almost 17 years it works well when your cabinet is exposed to extra light, cheers Dennis
ps it adds a new dimension of'put a bag over your head' LOL

I have heard of something called 'diamond glass' to put in sand blasting cabinets which withstands the abrasive effect of the sand and makes visibility much better. Does anyone know what this might be?

Archangel007

30th September 2016, 08:03 AM

Homestar - thanks for the kind words. Definitely not in the budget. And I kinda want him to drive it with the drums anyway. I think it will make him a better driver. If he can drive a 50yo Landie without power steering and drum brakes then he should be able to drive anything (maybe not a Massey!!)

Dennis - good idea. The internal light isnt very strong!

Stealth - never head of it but will look into it.

News - well the procuring process took a hit this week. Paddock spares have come back to me with the front parabolics as not in stock and they dont know when they will be restocked. Also, on top of this, the freight for the two rear parabolics and the four shocks is 160 pounds. So that means that the total for the rear springs and shocks only is 578.41 pounds - or AUD$982.80 :( Thats way too expensive seeing as the fronts are still to be costed and sent. I have cancelled the order with them and will look elsewhere.

I might have to resort going back to the original idea of having the front springs reset and matched (cheapest option, as I have already purchased the complete set of bushes, U-bolts and new shackles etc) , or look at importing some springs from the USA.

I will keep you all posted whatever happens.

Cheers,
Andrew

stealth

30th September 2016, 08:29 AM

Homestar

30th September 2016, 08:42 AM

I bought my parabolics locally as when I looked into getting them from IS the freight was a killer. I paid around $1,250 (I think, would have to check exact amount) for front and rears delivered to my door.

My fronts went on back order as well - there seems to be a shortage of them as every supplier I contacted had nill stock.

I got an email from my supplier last week saying they should be in the next container they get in a few weeks, but thankfully I'm in no rush, I've left the old front springs in until they show up so the vehicle stays mobile (ish).

Archangel007

30th September 2016, 07:00 PM

If you want Plugger to experience drum brakes and no power steering to make him a better driver then reset the leaf springs you already have and make him appreciate the comfort of modern suspension. It brings you back within budget and will do him good.

Yep, that's the plan Stealth

Homestar - I think I will relegate the parabolics to Phase 2 - Improvement. I think I just concentrate now on getting Camel on the road and within budget.

Cheers,
Tricky

Homestar

1st October 2016, 05:25 PM

Yep, that's the plan Stealth

Homestar - I think I will relegate the parabolics to Phase 2 - Improvement. I think I just concentrate now on getting Camel on the road and within budget.

Cheers,
Tricky

Good idea if your budget is tight or fixed at this point. Save your pennies as there will be other unexpected things that will pop up to swallow your money.

Walruslike

2nd October 2016, 01:06 PM

Thanks again for sharing this journey with us. Fascinating read. All the best.

Archangel007

2nd October 2016, 09:40 PM

Thanks again for sharing this journey with us. Fascinating read. All the best.

Thanks mate, what a nice thing to say!!

Well all the paint has cured on the front suspension parts through the week so its ready to put back together. Unfortunately this being Grand Final weekend, assembly will have to wait. Plugger and I decided that we would take this weekend off and sit in front of the tele for some of it - a bit more father-son bonding!!

Anyway, through the week some more goodies arrived.

I have been watching the interweb intently for deals on tyres. The rubber on Camel is old and worn down to the wear markers so it was time to purchase new shoes for him. Tyroola had a special on Toyo Open Country AT tyres in 215/75R16 at $145 a pop but they were out of stock. What was in stock however was BF Goodrich AT's in the same size for $153 each. I could not find them anywhere else for under $200, so I pounced. And this is what rolled up mid-week:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=114829&stc=1&d=1475407072

So new tyres - great!! However the Landie rims looked very second hand. I had a mix of SWB and LWB rims on the Camel - 2xSWB and 3xLWB. A quick phone call to British Off-Road secured three more '601' rims. It seems that owners of old Land Rovers don't like to strip off paint when they decide to change wheel colour - some of them had two or three different layers of paint on them.

I took the old rims down to my local Bridgestone Tyre Dealer at Burpengary to have the tyres removed so I could send them off to be powdercoated. The guys at Bridgestone charged me $0, yes nothing, to remove and dispose of the previous worn out and old tyres - how great is that. Will definitely go back there to have the new tyres fitted. So, with the rims bare, it was off to the powdercoaters.

The old:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=114831&stc=1&d=1475407072

The new:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=114830&stc=1&d=1475407072

So, where are we with everything?? Paul at Redcliffe Spring and Suspension is on holidays until the 10th October so I will have to wait until then to have the front springs reset and matched. That's ok, plenty to do until then - next up, lets look at the engine (but that's another adventure you guys will have to wait until next week for!!:p)

Cheers and thanks,
Tricky

Homestar

3rd October 2016, 04:58 AM

Looking good. :)

That rubber will certainly make the young bloke build some muscles up when he's parking down the supermarket. ;)

Once the front end is back together, you'll probably have to adjust the steering stops as well to stop them from rubbing on the chassis.

Walruslike

3rd October 2016, 09:53 AM

Thanks for the photos.... I paid particular attention to them.

Um, er, I hate to point out such an obvious mistake to someone who appears to know so much more mechanically than I do... but in good conscience I can't let you get it so wrong.

All the LR vehicles I know of come with four wheels and a spare. You only have two wheels, and three tyres, so you're going to be in trouble balancing the vehicle on that lot. :)

More seriously.... it's looking great.... going to be a ripper vehicle.

Archangel007

3rd October 2016, 06:49 PM

Well spotted Walruslike and thanks for the kind words....

I actually ordered the tyres in two lots, to spread the cost over two weeks, and got the wheels powdercoated in two lots to spread the cost as well.

Here is a pic of the 2nd lot of three wheels off to the powdercoaters this week:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=114864&stc=1&d=1475484696

And here is the whole ensemble united together at last:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=114865&stc=1&d=1475484696

The budget for wheels and tyres was $1,500. We are now sitting at $1,310 with just the fitting and balancing to go (that will be this Saturday hopefully) - so, budget met!

Cheers and thanks,
Tricky

debruiser

4th October 2016, 06:33 AM

excellent work keeping under the tyre budget! I blew far more than that on mine :( I can't even remember the last time I managed to get tyres for under $200.... not to mention 4x4 tyres under $200.

those rims look schmick! I should have shelled out and got mine powder coated.

Pedro_The_Swift

4th October 2016, 06:57 AM

I bet a power steering pump is quickly added to the improvements list!:D

Archangel007

5th October 2016, 08:06 PM

Hi Guys,

Need some help from the Land Rover community.

Just looking at reassembling the from differential and driveline this weekend and I noticed that the front halfshaft bearings are not the same inner diameter (ID) as the halfshaft outer diameter (OD).

The bearing inner race ID is 34.75mm
The halfshaft bearing race OD is 31.29mm

There was no bush or sleeve present when I disassembled it. What gives here??

Please help!

Cheers,
Tricky

Archangel007

6th October 2016, 09:28 AM

Disregard the last post, I was measuring the wrong part!!

JDNSW

6th October 2016, 10:27 AM

Disregard the last post, I was measuring the wrong part!!

Thanks for the explanation, I was trying to work out how the reported situation could arise!

John

Archangel007

6th October 2016, 12:47 PM

But, now that I have the axle and hubs back together, there is a bit of end float in the halfshaft - as in without the FWH's on I can pull the halfshaft in and out perhaps 10mm - is this normal.

Also, there is quite a bit of 'slop' in the halfshaft as well - will this be taken up with the FWH??

Cheers,
Tricky

Homestar

6th October 2016, 12:51 PM

The drive dog on the FWH will get bolted to the end of the halfshaft with the nut that goes on the end of it which should pull the end float out of it in the same way the nut does this when you use a standard drive flange.

Archangel007

6th October 2016, 02:52 PM

Perfect, thanks Homestar!

Homestar

6th October 2016, 03:16 PM

It will make sense when you do it. :)

Archangel007

12th October 2016, 07:38 PM

Hi Gang,

I usually post an update either Sunday or Monday but I have been so busy with work that this is the first opportunity to do an update....

So where are we?? I am still waiting on some parts to arrive to we can wrap up the front suspension assembly. All the bearings have arrived but there were some locktabs that I ordered that are yet to turn up. All good, they should be here before the weekend. Which brings me my first question for those of you following this build - Britparts! I have heard a few people poo poo Britparts bearings and other parts as being Chinese made, out-of-spec rubbish that they would not use. The kits I have bought from both here and overseas do contain some blue boxes - is this really going to be a problem and will I be replacing these bearings in 12 months time? I hope not! Mind you, not all of the bearings are Britpart, some are Timkin (preferred) and some NSK....

OK, so the front diff assembly will have to wait, I decided to turn my attention to the engine and gearbox. To tell the tale I need to take you back to last week with the chain of events (cue the transcendental music and wavy screen :p)... Pluggers 186 Holden six was in need of a freshen up. It was running the proprietary Holden chassis oiling system and the whole thing was covered in oil and gunk. If the engine was in any way in the same condition as the front diff and subject to the same maintenance regime then a full rebuild was in order. Last week I started the procurement process for parts for the 186. First off was to hunt around for a set of extractors and 2-barrel manifold for improved power, torque, throttle response and economy - knowing how choked down the red motors were from the factory.

Searching Gumtree I came across and ad for a Holden 202 out of a HZ - low mileage the seller said - 146,000 miles, all original - Swapped out for a 308! He also had a set of extractors for said red motor which is what I was really after. A quick phone call persuaded him to part with the extractors (unused mind you) for $100. Bargain. Next on the list was a 2-barrel manifold and Holley carb. Knowing that the 350cfm Holley would drown the little 186, I chose the 320 Economaster from Holley with much smaller primaries and secondaries. I grabbed both from a guy at Forest Glen for the princely sum of $100 for both. I was on a roll!! :cool:

I sat down that night and did some sums on how much the 186 would cost to rebuild - too much!! Parts alone were over the $1k mark. It would blow the budget wide open! So, thinking back to the 202 I had seen earlier in the day I rang the seller the next day and see if was still for sale - it looked in good nick. He said yes and wanted $200 for it. I offered him $50 pickup immediately and to my astonishment he said yes! Bargain! So that afternoon and $250 down we had these to show for our troubles:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115173&stc=1&d=1476264303

I knew the 202 would probably need some sort of freshen up. Even if it was freshly rebuilt it would need to have all the ancillaries and adapter plate swapped over so on Tuesday we put it on the engine stand to have a quick squiz at what we had. For $50, unless it had a cracked block it was worth the money we paid:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115174&stc=1&d=1476264363

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115175&stc=1&d=1476264363

From the first initial inspection the engine would need a new water neck/thermostat housing (corroded), a new water pump would be smart (the bypass neck had corroded off and was stuck in the bypass hose) and if the timing gears were fibrous they would need replacing (many horror stories around of stripped fibrous timing gears leaving the owners stranded). I removed the timing cover and yep, the gears were certainly the originals. Mind you, they looked to be absolutely in pristine condition which backed up the previous owners comments regarding the mileage of the engine.

Here is the cover removed:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115176&stc=1&d=1476265008

And I ran a file across the camshaft timing gear just to be sure it was a fibre one (which it was):
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115177&stc=1&d=1476265008

That was it for mid-week. It was time to hunt up some parts and other bits n pieces and get ready for Saturday's teardown...

Cheers,
Tricky

Archangel007

12th October 2016, 08:17 PM

Saturday came and it was time to teardown the 202 proper and see what was what. Before I did that however I thought I would paint strip the engine and then give it a coat of enamel (in some parts it was pretty flaky). Normally I would repaint the engine after final assembly but this time I decided to do it ass-about-face - I don't know why!

Off came the distributor, plug leads and coil just in case the stripper would damage the rubber leads or bakelite dizzy cap. Then we took it off the stand and put it on the engine crane to we could get underneath it. I used some foaming gel paint stripper from Autobarn and it worked quite well:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115178&stc=1&d=1476266888

Once stripped and rinsed we pulled off the air cleaner, engine mounts and the inlet and exhaust manifolds. Some of the manifold studs were frozen to the nuts but that was OK and to be expected. Also removed was the vacuum line and fuel line, the PCV valve and preheat pipe, the vac canister solenoid and the power steering pulley and of course the fuel pump. After some masking it was ready to be painted.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115179&stc=1&d=1476266888

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115180&stc=1&d=1476266888

And then a nice coat of Holden/GM red-orange. The valve cover I will do later as it has a nice dent in it hat I need to hammer out:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115181&stc=1&d=1476266976

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115182&stc=1&d=1476267129

That was it for Saturday. It was time to watch some motor racing and order some engine parts through the week!!

To be continued....

Cheers,
Tricky

Homestar

13th October 2016, 05:01 AM

Just a few observations if I may - these are just my thoughts and experiences, so please don't take this as me raining on your parade.

Britpart bearings are fine IMO - I only steer clear of the rubber stuff they do as it seems to deteriorate quickly. I've used Britoart bearings in the past without issue long term (currently in the front of my RRC - I did them for my FIL when he owned it) - that was 100,000KM ago, so no dramas there from my experience.

186 v 202 - I've used both in series land rovers and the 202 was a bit of a dog compared to the 186. The 186 is a freer reving engine and more suited to the series vehicle IMO - the 202 (which was freshly rebuilt) was a solid and powerful engine, but just didn't do it for me - the old 186 with less power was a nicer to drive unit. This was a direct comparison as both engines went into the same shorty I had. Although it will work fine, personally I would freshen up the 186, they were always a better engine than the 202.

I put a 2 barrel manifold and 350 Holley on the 202 - it lasted 2 weeks before the Holley went in the bin in favour of a second hand 2 barrel Webber from the Wreckers. The Holley will use even more fuel than what the 202 will anyway (a lot by the way) and give you a horrible flat spot when you floor it. It also runs out of fuel the first time you put it on a hill - ok if Plugger is not going off road in it, but if he wants to explore any steep countryside, he'll find this out very quickly. I did mine waaay back before the Internet so I just did what the boys down the pub recommended - some of the worst advice I Got I think. :D. Really, just don't do it, find a 2 barrel Webber that were common during the early 80's.

Apart from that, great work as usual. :)

debruiser

13th October 2016, 05:55 AM

Slightly off track here but...

186 was red. Correct? (the one couple I've had were.)
202 was..... blue???? no? yes? both?

Not that it matters at all to your build, unless your chasing authenticity of a holden engine in your LAND ROVER.

Homestar

13th October 2016, 06:49 AM

186 was red, 202 was red, then went to the 3.3 which was blue, then black. The blue motor was probably the best of the bunch - it has electronic ignition, a better head and decent carbie.

Yes, all much of a muchness in the grand scheme of things. :)

Archangel007

13th October 2016, 09:15 AM

Hi Homestar et al,

Just for the record - I take everything you say on this forum and in this thread seriously. You have taken a keen interest in the Plugger-mobile and I thank you for it. Please don't stop, I have an umbrella for the rain....;)

I had a LX Torana with a 202 in it years ago (before being replaced with a 327 SBC, but that's another story...) and it performed admirably, towing the GF's horses around and doing OK in the performance stakes, so I went with what I know. I have never owned anything with a 186, so don't know them at all. The 186 in Camel is also unknown, but it would be certain to say it is in worse condition than the 202. But, upon hearing what you have said, it seems that there is a consensus out there that the 186 is a better engine.

I wanted an engine with the most torque because of Plugger's intentions to tow a camper trailer. If I can pull a few figures from the interweb:

Holden 186 - 130bhp@3300rpm, 181ftLbs@2200
Holden 202 - 118hp (SAE) 137bhp@4000rpm, 185ftlbs@2100

Hmmm, not much difference there (I thought there was a marked difference in Tq figures) and I am going to stand corrected on this one!!

So, to this end, I have formulated a new plan, and it goes something like this:
1. Complete the freshen up of the 202 - after all I have all the bits now and it has only cost me a couple hundred bucks in parts
2. Source a Weber as per Homestars recommendation (thanks mate, I owe you one!). Plugger's intentions is to use his Camel off-road, so it must be capable in that arena.
3. Fully rebuild the 186 with a view to maximise torque and fuel economy. Initial inspection and measure might suggest it is in better nick than I thought. After all, it was running when we got it...
4. Swap over the freshened up 202 with the fully rebuilt 186 using all the good parts off the 202 (extractors, manifold, ignition etc)
5. Sell the 202 for what we can get to help offset the cost of the above.

Homestar - what model Weber should I be looking for - early Ford?? And once again, thanks for the input, keep it coming sir!!

Cheers and thanks,
Tricky

grey_ghost

13th October 2016, 09:38 AM

Hi Tricky,

I can't remember - but was the Series registered with the 186 when you bought it?

It might be easier (come registration time) to register it with the 186 in it - compared to the new 202?

I know that based on the power/torque figures that you have provided, there isn't a huge difference.. But it might over-complicate things trying to register it with a different engine number and different engine capacity? (Naturally this changes depending on state/authority)

Just a thought. :angel:

Cheers,
Grey Ghost

Homestar

13th October 2016, 09:47 AM

Carby I used was off an XD Falcon IIRC, but I didn't actually remove it, just bought it from the wreckers, so can't be 100% on this. Also, I don't think it will bolt straight up to the 2 barrel manifold, you'll have to knock up an adaptor plate for it, but that is pretty straight forward.

Regarding the Holden Red motors - I'm a big fan and I cut my teeth on them. The 202 is a great engine, I just found the 186 to rev differently and feel better in my old series. :)

As GG suggests, if it has been registered with the 186 then getting it registered with that engine may be easier, but I don't know what the laws are like up your way.

One thing you could do is file the engine number off the 202 and stamp the 186 number into that to make life easier...:angel::wasntme::wasntme:

Obviously I can't condone this sort of behaviour, but maybe I've done something similar in the past... :angel:

stealth

13th October 2016, 03:14 PM

Just a question on the extractors. Will they fit without modification. I had a Series 2 years ago and fitted extractors and seem to recall having to modify them to fit. I did fit a Nissan Cabstar five speed gear box to the Holden engine which meant repositioning the engine mounts 4 inches forward but I can't remember whether that was what necessitated the mod to the extractors or that was beforehand.

debruiser

13th October 2016, 06:38 PM

Thanks Homestar!

I changed my dizzy out on the 186 and installed a HIE ignition and a Blaster SSS coil. This gave the ol' girl a bit more poke and if I had bothered to get a decent carbi that was tuned correctly I recon it would have run real nice. I went from 18L/100kms to 16ish L/100km just from the HIE and coil. And I know that it was overfueling so could have done even better....

Might be something to look at after its on the road, if the budget doesnt' stretch that far to start with.(that's what I did)

Archangel007

14th October 2016, 01:14 PM

Hi Guys,

Attached is the certification (blue) plate for the Camel, it doesn't reference anywhere the engine number or engine size (Or the chassis number which is most disturbing):
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115211&stc=1&d=1476413805

As you can see it references LK1 - seatbelt and/or restraint alterations and LA1 - Equivalent Engine Installation. No reference to the engine number or size on the plate.

GG and Homestar - I don't think it matters and how could they check if no engine numbers were kept. The vehicle has been out of the system (unregistered) for some time (most likely just after '98, definitely more than 10 years) so there is no trace of it. It will have to be registered as a new vehicle with new plates etc. Of more concern is the lack of a chassis number. I might have to stamp one on the chassis myself at some point.

Stealth - Yeah I think so. Stay tuned though when it goes back in and hopefully no issues!!

Debruiser - I'm in luck!! The old 186 had a HEI Bosch electronic dizzy on it which I will swap over onto the 202. Here is a shot of the coil on the 186 (bad shot I know, sorry):
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115216&stc=1&d=1476415011

That saves a few $$$ right there! Not sure about the carby. I have already the 320 Economaster and would like to go with that, but Homestar's comments regarding the carby unfueling on hills is disturbing. I take it this means that the jets get uncovered in the fuel bowl due to the fuel bowl capacity! What I need to know is how severe is this condition and what angle does it occur - gentle slopes or only on the most severe inclines?? This will guide my decision for Stage II modifications moving into the 'do it now' category! Homestar or anyone else I would love to hear your comments on this issue!

So, with the Bosch electronic ignition, the extractors and the Holley, I should be able to free up some ponies, gain some extra torque and improve the fuel economy on the way!!

Thoughts and comments welcome...

Cheers,
Tricky

Homestar

14th October 2016, 02:05 PM

Holley was fine on gentle and even decent slopes, but soon bought you to a fuel starved stop if you had the nose pointed up a steep bit of hill, particualy if you took more than a few seconds to navigate an obsticle, etc where the nose was up high in the air.

Maybe it's a kind of 'suck it and see' thing. If you already have it, it will get you mobile until you work out where its limits are. :)

Archangel007

15th October 2016, 12:13 PM

Homestar,

Thanks heaps for the input, very appreciated.

I have head that the 36 ADM 2-barrel Weber off the XE/XF Falcons work brilliantly on the Holden sixes. In your opinion do you think that these Webers would suffer the same malady as the Holley on slopes seeing as they are a different configuration??

They are readily available, cheap, and I can get a Lynx adapter plate for the Weber to fit the Cain manifold off the shelf.

Thoughts?

Cheers,
Tricky

Archangel007

17th October 2016, 09:51 AM

On Saturday the lack of parts for the front diff assembly dictated that today would be another 'engine' day. That was fine, as long as we keep moving forward with the project. It was time for some disassembly proper. I noticed the exhaust ports were overly oily so we decided to rip the head off and take a look. If nothing was found, then we would just replace the head gasket (cheap insurance) as it came with the kit that arrived through the week - along with new rings and the new timing gears.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115353&stc=1&d=1476661719

So, it was head off, sump off and disassemble down to its basic components.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115354&stc=1&d=1476661719

After marking all the rod caps it was out with the pistons. The big end bearings looked absolutely mint so we decided to reuse these and made sure that we kept everything in order. What we did notice however was the lack of oil changes had caused all of the oil control rings to gunk up in their lands. This most likely was the cause of the oily ports. It must have been burning a fair amount of oil as I am not sure the oil rings did a great deal. We had one broken compression ring in number four, and a decent score in number 6. Number one was slightly ovulated. So, I am really glad we decided to open it up and at the very least re-ring!!
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115355&stc=1&d=1476661719

And the bump stick (had to get new gears on it anyway). The cam journals and bearings again looked pristine so these would be reused again too.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115356&stc=1&d=1476661719

First job was to remove the lip on the cylinders. It wasn't a huge lip and pretty consistent with the amount of miles (46,000) the PO said the motor had done - between 0.5 and 1mm on all cylinders. So it was out with the ridge reamer and cut away the lips:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115357&stc=1&d=1476661927

To be continued....

Archangel007

17th October 2016, 10:17 AM

I sent Plugger off to the parts washer to scrub all of the pistons. There was a bit of carbon build-up on the crowns and the ring lands needed cleaning of all the old accumulated oil and gunk. The broken ring came in handy for this. It took the poor lad over an hour to get it done as I had to send him back twice! Its a learning process I guess. The pistons were all standard bore size so the new rings being standard size should just slip in nicely with a bit of a hone. Of concern was the score in cylinder number six. Actually there were three scores but the other two were so slight that I knew they would hone out. The major score was deep enough to be doubtful. In any case, it would mean that it would pump a bit of oil and be down slightly on compression. As long as we got most of it out I could live with that.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115359&stc=1&d=1476663428

I gave all the cylinders a decent hone. The score in number six is still just visible but nowhere near as bad as it first was. Other than a re-bore, new pistons and rings this was as far as we were willing to go. I seriously doubt the score will affect performance any, and other than slightly increased oil usage you probably would not notice:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115360&stc=1&d=1476663428

We gapped the rings, set them in their lands and installed the slugs back in their bores. These are cast rings and very springy with good sidewall pressure. They should bed in nicely during the run-in period.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115361&stc=1&d=1476663428

Cam reinstalled with new cam gears. No stripping of fibrous gears now!!
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115362&stc=1&d=1476663599

And timing cover back on with new crank snout seal and new water pump installed (also cheap insurance):
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115363&stc=1&d=1476663599

To be continued....

Archangel007

17th October 2016, 10:59 AM

Continued....

After installing all the reciprocating bits it was time to turn my attention to the head. While I was installing the pistons and ring etc I got the head, turned it upside down and leveled it on the welding table with some blocks of wood. I then proceeded to fill all the domes with kerosene to give it a leak test. Yep, you guessed it - number four leaked like a sieve. This was the cylinder with the broken ring and it was the most oily. The oil had accumulated over time behind the valve head and built up enough to not allow the valve to fully seat properly. The exhaust was the worst (of course) but the inlet showed signs of slight wetness too. All of the other cylinders seemed OK although number six showed signs of dampness as well. This meant stripping the head down and relapping the valves! If there is damage to the valves or valve seats this is at best a short term solution but all the valves cleaned up really well with the wire wheel on the bench grinder. No nicks, gouges or any other damage I could see. Same with the seats, they cleaned up really well. I relapped all the valves, installed new valve stem seals and rebuilt the head. Another leak test and all good (no pics sorry, just decided to get on with it...)

However, as I was putting the rocker bridges disaster struck!! The bolt on number one cylinder inlet bridge snapped off. I new it was dodgy as it would just not torque up! Damnit!!:mad:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115364&stc=1&d=1476665584

OK, no probemo!! It was out with the centre punch, a 5mm drill bit and an easy-out. 2 mins later and the offending piece of hardware was removed and no thread got damaged in the making of this article!!:cool:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115365&stc=1&d=1476665584

While this was going on I sent Plugger off to clean all the sludge and gunk from the sump and get that all nice and sparkly!
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115367&stc=1&d=1476665121

Head reassembled and all back together. Bosch HEI electronic ignition back in. Leads marked and installed with the new plugs as well:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115366&stc=1&d=1476665121

Cain 2-barrel manifold installed, long branch extractors, pulleys, sump and all other bits installed save for the valve cover (Being painted) and the ancillaries.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115368&stc=1&d=1476665121

Well that was it for Saturday and it was beer o'clock. Plugger decided he had had enough cleaning for one day and retired in front of the tele for a bit to watch some AFL re-runs. Next week I will take the alternator in to be tested to see if that is OK. The starter was new and turned the engine over fine when it was run so that should be OK I hope (it looks brand spankers!!).

Through the week I will pull the bellhousing adapter, clutch and pressure plate of the old 186 and see what they look like. Also through the week I will try and source a 36 ADM carby from an XE Falcon. Further research on the interweb suggests that this carby is an awesome match for the Holden sixes and while not plug-n-play, will adapt up OK with a commercially available plate (Lynx make one to fit the 2-barrel manifold). All-in-all a successful days work and this module is almost complete.

Cheers and thanks,
Tricky

mick88

20th October 2016, 07:56 AM

Nice informative and well illustrated thread Sticky.
Given that you are handy with a welder, when you are refitting the engine back in the old girl give some consideration to manufacturing some new engine mounts that will allow the motor to drop down and the centre of the crank line up with the hole in the front cross member. This way the gearbox will be sitting where it was originally intended to sit. Most Holden conversions in Land Rovers tilted the front of the motor up to conform with how a Holden motor originally sat in a Holden vehicle, which was to straighten the driveline out and reduce/minimise universal joint wear.
The only downfall will be that carby will tilt forward a bit, but that can easily be overcome with a spacer.

Cheers, Mick.

mick88

20th October 2016, 08:00 PM

This is a tool I made up a while back to align a motor with the front chassis hole. It bolts onto the harmonic balancer. I had a jack under the front of the engine. The wooden wheel is then slid along the shaft into the chassis hole. Once in place I just "tweaked" the engine mounts to maintain that alignment.

Cheers, Mick.

Archangel007

21st October 2016, 04:40 PM

Hi Mick,

Thanks for the info. TBH I cant really remember how the Holden six sat in the engine bay of the Camel. But I shall take your considerations under advisement and see how far out the crank centreline is to the front crossmember portal.

I take it that a few mm's either way is no big deal...??

Cheers and thanks,
Tricky

mick88

21st October 2016, 06:30 PM

I was reading back through your thread and I see that you are looking for torque so Plugger can tow a camper behind it. Probably a bit late as you have the donk back together, but either a Crow towing cam or a cam from an EFI 3.3 would improve on the low to mid range power. Also compare the flywheels you have as the 186 may be heavier. The blue 3.3 (202) used a 2kg lighter flywheel than a 186 as they have a 6kg heavier crankshaft, however I am not sure if the red 202 used the lighter flywheel as well.
Cheers, Mick.

Archangel007

22nd October 2016, 01:12 PM

Hi Mick,

A torquey camshaft my come later, a lot later (remember Plugger is still only 14, so a lot of driving and learning to do before towing anything)!! The engine is back together now and I have moved on now to the next module - either the gearbox/transfer case of the rear diff/suspension. I could have rebuilt the 202 to be a torque monster but there are budgetary constraints to consider.

I have re-used the flywheel from the 186 as the 202 did not come with one. Its a heavy sucker too which is ideal for keeping the rotating mass in motion. It was in very good nick so why not.

I think a new clutch plate is in order though, along with a new spigot bearing.

Cheers and thanks,
Tricky

Archangel007

23rd October 2016, 08:56 AM

Hi Everyone,

Well this weekend saw us officially complete some modules - more or less - and it also introduced me to the issues firsthand that is Britpart quality. Lets talk about Britpart first - Last week I wanted to finish off the front axle assembly but had to wait on some parts arriving up from a vendor in NSW. The original locking tabs for the brake backing plate I ordered from the UK - they came with all the other Britpart stuff like bearings etc - were absolutely ****e!! They were so thin that when I torqued up the bolts they just twisted and broke, or bent into grotesque shapes as to be unusable. So all of them went into the bin and I ordered original Rover ones which performed as per their intended design.

The next issue I had with Britparts was the U-bolts that hold the leaf springs to the axle housings. One is supposed to be longer than the other three to allow for the rise in depth of the axle housing where the leaf spring attaches to the perch! Even though it was a different part number to the other three, it was barely 5mm longer and all I could get was about 2 turns onto the nut - not even enough to meet the nylon insert of the nyloc nut. The vendor to their credit however swapped this out with one of a different brand which was just long enough to engage the nylon. When I questioned the vendor they stated (and not for the record) that the U-bolt comes back all the time - my question in reply was why stock them then??

So through the week some bits turned up as described - the lock tabs and the new U-bolt. Also through the week I took Plugger's front springs to Redcliffe Spring and Suspension to get them reset and matched. Dropped them in on Monday, had them back by Wednesday - cost was $260 which I thought was more than reasonable. Parabolics will have to wait until Stage II. Here are the springs with some bits leftover (made two out of three springs)
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115594&stc=1&d=1477175896

Painted:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115595&stc=1&d=1477175896

I wire-wheeled and painted the wheel nuts while I was there. Not happy with the finish, might get them coated...
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115596&stc=1&d=1477175896

Also through the week I dropped Plugger's alternator into the local auto-electrician/motor winding place and got it assessed. They said it was still functional but they could not tell me for how long. They said that the increased load of two batteries, the winch, driving lights etc would outstrip its meagre capacity of 35 amps - being the original 186 alternator - and eventually kill it. A new 85 Amp would cost me $235, and to rewind and upgrade the original would be $285-plus. I shopped around... I went to my local Autobarn, saw my friendly parts dealer named Dennis and got a genuine Bosch 120A alternator for $220!! I thought that was a good deal! We know that the starter motor was fine as it started the 186 the day we picked the Camel up and it looked almost new. Here is the new alternator mounted - should be able to handle the electrical load and then some:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115603&stc=1&d=1477176901

Also through the week Plugger and I stripped off the 186 the bellhousing adapter, scatter shield, spacer, pressure plate, clutch plate and flywheel. They of course were covered in muck from the custom Holden oiling system. I sent Plugger off to the parts washer (again) to clean them up. Then it was a nice coat of flat aluminium heat-proof paint as it is in relative close proximity to the exhaust. They came up fine and they are ready to bolt on when the gearbox gets overhauled. The tappet cover is now painted and on, this makes the engine overhaul complete - its ready to go back in:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115602&stc=1&d=1477176901

Continued....

Homestar

23rd October 2016, 09:35 AM

Geez, you're absolutley flying with this! You're making me look bad! :D

Keep up the great work. :BigThumb:

Archangel007

23rd October 2016, 09:37 AM

Continued...

This weekend we finished - well almost - the front axle assembly and suspension. First to be attacked was the diff centre. Internally it was fine, even though at some point it had lost all its oil. Just for added insurance I installed a new pinion seal. Remove the split pin, undo the single pinion flange bolt and remove the pinion flange.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115604&stc=1&d=1477179301

The seal landing was a bit pitted so we sanded it with some 240 grade and that re-dresssed it nicely:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115606&stc=1&d=1477179301

The old seal and the new seal were totally different shape. Out with the old seal:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115605&stc=1&d=1477179301

In with the new seal:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115607&stc=1&d=1477179301

Re-install the pinion flange. Install new differential casing seal, tighten bolts and then paint in our chassis black paint to match the rest of the assembly:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115608&stc=1&d=1477179301

Continued...

Archangel007

23rd October 2016, 10:08 AM

Continued...

With the diff centre back together and installed in the diff housing, I turned my attention to my son's pitted balls!! Yes, the steering round thingy's!! Due to monetary constraints I did not have the dollars to replace them if we were going to stick to the budget. I got onto a guy in the UK who had filled his badly pitted balls with epoxy and he said that the result was brilliant - even 2 years and 30,000 miles later. So I placed a call to Loctite Australia and asked them if their Superior Metal product would be up to the job. Its a two-part epoxy/metal that is used mainly for metal reclamation purposes etc. They said an emphatic yes! So, after cleaning the balls and wire-wheeling the pits to get to the substrate we applied the compound and let it cure for the recommended 24-hour period:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115609&stc=1&d=1477180812

Then it was a case of sanding off all the unwanted filler to leave the epoxy/metal just filling the pitted areas:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115610&stc=1&d=1477180812

I then gave the whole ball a coat of gloss black enamel paint. The reason being is that this would fill all the very minor imperfections (down to sub-millimetre level) and act as a sacrificial wear surface - the epoxy would fill the big stuff and the paint would fill the small stuff that the epoxy could not do:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115611&stc=1&d=1477180812

On close inspection, the balls were almost perfect and hopefully would be a fair enough surface for the seal to seal against:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115612&stc=1&d=1477180812

Continued...

Archangel007

23rd October 2016, 10:36 AM

Continued...

Balls done - check!!

Time to re-assemble the whole front assembly and get this thing back together. In with the halfshaft seals and bearings and the halfshafts themselves. Rebuild the hubs and install. New brake bits arrived through the week so on they went (since I took the pics I have actually installed the springs the right way!!):
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115614&stc=1&d=1477182793

Install new bushes into the spring eyes. Plugger was at school when I did this so I engineered a novel way to hold the spring level and steady with the chain block and overhead boom while I used my 20T press to press them in:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115613&stc=1&d=1477182793

Install new steering ball-joints into the clean and repainted steering linkages (and a big thanks to John in post #25 for enlightening me regarding the different ball joints that Land Rover have used - its knowledge passed on like this that makes these rebuilds so much easier - thanks mate!!). Install the springs, shackles and bolts etc. And finally all back together. Just waiting on new CS screws for the brake drums and the new brake hoses to turn up. And here is the finished product - what do you guys think??
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115615&stc=1&d=1477182793

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115616&stc=1&d=1477182793

The new drive-shaft boot arrived on Friday so that went on too after being re-packed with grease:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115617&stc=1&d=1477182793

So, that's two modules down and a lot more to go. Next on the list is to refurbish the 2nd hand Series 3 brake pedal/booster and master cylinder I got from British Off Road for the princely sum of $80 - thanks Paxton that was a great deal and I really appreciate it. Also on the list is the steering relay!! I need some advice here as it is as stiff as all buggery - I am going to try and extract it and rebuild it - can anyone give me a heads-up on this other than "don't do it"....:D

Cheers and thanks,
Tricky

Note: All this happened over the course of two weeks in reality as work is a bit slow at the moment and I had time to attack it through the week here and there!!

Homestar

23rd October 2016, 11:06 AM

Looks great!

Regarding the steering relay, most of the time the biggest issue with them is a stuffed bottom seal and no oil. There are 2 tapered bushes in there held in tension by a BIG spring. If there's no lateral movement in the shaft you may get away with just replacing the bottom seal and filling it with oil.

Worth a try - it worked with mine. Mine was so tight it was almost seized but once refilled with all and moved backwards and forwards a couple of hundred times, it actually came back into spec and works wel now.

If that doesn't work, just be careful when you crack it open - the spring is under a lot of compression.

Walruslike

23rd October 2016, 01:15 PM

This is a real treat for me (and no doubt many others) to read and see... Thanks so much for sharing it with us.

As a mostly useless guy mechanically, it's amazing to me what you can do with old apparently buggered stuff and turn it into something that looks sweet.

Truly fascinating..... I'm loving your work, words and pictures. Thanks heaps.

Btw... Have you got a piccy of the brake springs on correctly? Just wondering how it should be...

Gordie

23rd October 2016, 01:45 PM

Yes...agree with Walrus...I am reasonably mechanically minded, but no expert, it is great to see the running documentary and the pictures especially, nice to see how things look, should look, and are done. Most interesting and valuable. Cheers for that.

Homestar

23rd October 2016, 05:03 PM

Knew I'd seen this somewhere - http://www.aulro.com/afvb/series-iii/116455-steering-relay-rebuild.html

A good little thread on rebuilding the steering relay if you need to. :)

Archangel007

23rd October 2016, 06:18 PM

Walrus - I will take a pic in the morning and post one up for you.

Gordie - No problems mate, and thanks for the kind words.

Homestar - as always, a big thanks to you for all your tireless hard work in the background - thanks man!!

Cheers,
Tricky

Archangel007

24th October 2016, 10:05 AM

Hi walrus,

As per your request, here is the brake shoe spring alignment - I hope I explain it OK.

Orientation - you are looking at the drivers side - right side - front wheel hub from the outside. The brake backing plate should have the snail cam adjuster on the right hand side so it is towards the front of the vehicle (very easy to get this back to front, I know)...

Top Spring - this is the long spring. It has a long leg and a short leg. The long leg attaches to the right hand shoe at the post that rests against the snail cam adjuster. The post faces in towards the centre of the car, you cant really get this wrong. Hook the long leg around the backside of the shoe into the groove of the snail cam adjusting post (that's the shiny silver bit lower right, it is facing away from you). In this shout the shoe has obscured the spring, but you can follow to where it attaches to (the post on the RH shoe)
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115667&stc=1&d=1477267780

The other leg of this top spring - the short leg - attaches to the post on the upper left side of the backing plate:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115665&stc=1&d=1477267577

The lower spring - the shorter symmetrical spring - simply hooks into the two holes of both the left and right hand shoe above the brake shoe anchor plate. It attaches in behind the shoe, not in front:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115666&stc=1&d=1477267577

Hope this helps mate. Just reconcile with the pics and the annotations...

Cheers,
Tricky

Walruslike

25th October 2016, 09:09 PM

007 you are a font of knowledge. :)

You should write the manuals! :)

Pedro_The_Swift

26th October 2016, 07:05 AM

as 007 showed the good sense to write it all in this forum Walruslike,,
he sort of is ;):D

and with any luck, all this will be here as a resource literally forever. :cool:

Archangel007

26th October 2016, 11:03 AM

Thanks guys, just happy to help out.

I can write up anything you like, just let me know what it is you need, and when I get to it, I will do a good write-up for all of us (nods his head thinking of his own 14yo son!!)

Cheers,
Tricky

Archangel007

30th October 2016, 08:55 AM

Hi Everyone,

Had thoughts through the week of starting to overhaul the gearbox. The main reason I decided not to start that yet is that I haven't got all the parts together yet. I need to order the high ratio gearset from Ashcrofts in the UK (http://www.ashcroft-transmissions.co.uk/the-series-vehicle/high-ratio-gear-set.html). So, instead of having the gearbox and transfer case split open and parts everywhere, I decided to just leave that until I had all the bits together. So, what next....?? The focus has been on getting a rolling chassis with fully restored running gear in it (sans gearbox/t-case etc) so I turned my attention to the steering relay.

I guess you had all heard horror stories like I have of the black witchcraft and the evil forces contained within the steering rely. The steering relay in the Camel was so stiff that I could not turn it by hand and only giving the steering arm some decent whacks with a rubber mallet would cause it to move only the smallest amounts - obviously it needed an overhaul.

First job was to place some witness marks on the upper and lower steering arms so that I knew the exact location to put them back in. The Haynes manual states that the arms are 90-degrees apart, while all other sources say its 81-degrees. I think that the 81-degrees is the correct measurement as I have found it repeated in multiple sources. Truth-be-told, I am really getting annoyed with the inaccuracy of the Haynes manual - I have now annotated about 2-dozen mistakes in the book which are now over-written in pencil.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115927&stc=1&d=1477781721

This is what greeted me when it was time to attack the 'tube of woe'....it had been welded on. Or more accurately, the right angle brackets that the bolts go through had been re-welded on (badly) and then the PO then decided to put some dobs on the steering relay for good measure. That could be good or bad depending how you looked at it, good - the thing was lose and would slip straight out and the welds were what was holding it in, bad - the frame was rotten, thing was rusted in, and it was just a general mess....
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115928&stc=1&d=1477781721

Arms in good shape, straight and not abused or (thank god) not welded. Upper:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115930&stc=1&d=1477781721

Lower:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115931&stc=1&d=1477781721

Meanwhile, Plugger was sent back to the parts washer to wash the steering arms, rods and anything else that needed cleaning (he is getting good at it now)...
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115929&stc=1&d=1477781721

Continued....

Archangel007

30th October 2016, 09:21 AM

Continued...

I removed the bottom collar without too much difficulty. The four bolts were covered in oily gunk so obviously the lower seal had gone a long time ago and this had attributed to the cause of the steering relays demise. With judicious use of the angle grinder, I cut off the offending dollops of weld on top of the steering relay without to much damage to the relay itself. Upon removal of the bolts I noticed that the relay did move ever so slightly in the crossmember so I took this as a good sign. I got Plugger to grab as couple of long screwdrivers, some blocks of wood and use them as a lever on the top of the relay while I got the soft dead-blow mallet and gave it some good whacks from underneath (first glance you will see it only comes out from the top)...

Blessed be the cheese-makers..!! - half dozen good whacks and the black tube of sorcery was out! It didn't look too bad - Hallelujah :D
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115932&stc=1&d=1477783267

But, what greeted me inside the crossmember was very ugly!! I am not sure whether this tube that the relay sits in is meant to go all the way through the crossmember or not. It if does well half of it is missing and it will need to be replaced. If it doesn't then this is a very silly design flaw and just asking for trouble in the form of trapped water and dirt leading to massive corrosion problems:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115933&stc=1&d=1477783267

Meanwhile, in another part of the workshop not too far away, Plugger was getting down and dirty (literally) with the steering rods and arms and all the other bit n pieces that needed cleaning prior to being repainted or replaced:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115934&stc=1&d=1477783267

I took the relay over to the press to under the upper an lower end plates. Not knowing what to expect in terms of the demons contained within, I decided to clamp it in the 20T press in case any of the evil contained within should leak out and not be contained:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115935&stc=1&d=1477783267

Plugger had finished his cleaning and had started refurbishing - gloss black for all the steering arms and rods etc. They were all in very good nick:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115936&stc=1&d=1477783267

Continued...

Archangel007

30th October 2016, 10:07 AM

Continued...

Using the press I had totally dismantled the relay except for the shaft and bushes and of course the spring of death!! I considered pushing the shaft out with the press but then decided against it as I had no way to contain parts once they had exited the relay body. Considering all the options, I decided to just place the relay on its side and drive the shaft out with the soft hammer and try to catch all the parts in a cardboard box lined with a plastic bag. Holy cow this thing took some force to get out!!! Finally, the shaft came out far enough for the spring to eject the washer, spacer and one of the bushes out the bottom of the (somewhat flimsy cardboard box now I think of it) box, across the workshop and into the next dimension never to be seen of again. Not that I minded, this was all going to be replaced anyway!

The contents after the initial richter-scale sized explosion. I can see why the relay shaft never turned, it was frozen solid with gunk, rust and other forms of rotation-stopping crud:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115937&stc=1&d=1477784720

Inside the relay body. Water had obviously gotten in and started to rust solid all the internal parts. Not an issue really, definitely salvageable. It seems the PO had at some stage tried to service the part as seen by the use of silastic on the top cover. It would have not done any good - the bottom seal was knackered so any oil put in would have just leaked out and let water eventually get in to rust everything solid over time.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115939&stc=1&d=1477785232

And this is the shaft... Evidence of heavy pitting and corrosion due to lack of oil and water ingress. I had thoughts of binning this and buying an new unit. However, I read of quite a few horror stories online of aftermarket relay shafts (The name Britpart came to the surface again!) snapping in half due to poor quality metallurgy or poor machining practices. Hmmm, not for me and definitely not for Plugger.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115938&stc=1&d=1477785629

So, how to refurbish. I thought I would chuck it in the lathe and turn down the seal lands and bush lands so they were perfectly smooth once again. But, I would have to get the angles of the bush surfaces absolutely spot on or else the bush contact area would be compromised leading to excessive wear, increased resistance and possibly early failure of the buses or the shaft itself. So, I decided to chuck it in the lathe and use some 240-grade emery paper to sand down the shaft until all the bush and seal surfaces were once again usable. after about an hour in the lathe, taking it very slowly using lots of WD-40 I think I have it to a point whereby it should be just fine to re-use:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=115940&stc=1&d=1477785629

That was the end of day 1 on the relay. Next is to order some parts and complete the rebuilding of it. But that will be next week, enjoy...

Cheers,
Tricky

JDNSW

30th October 2016, 02:45 PM

The relay tube, as you suspect, originally went all the way through.

John

Archangel007

31st October 2016, 09:57 AM

Thanks John!

I think I might just remake that whole section - might be easier!!

Cheers,
Tricky

Andy130

3rd November 2016, 07:50 PM

great project guys, Ive just read all 13 pages. Looking forward to the next instalments !

Archangel007

6th November 2016, 09:12 AM

Thanks Andy!

Well this week has been two steps forward and one step back. The parts for the steering relay overhaul haven't arrived yet so that is incomplete. But what I have done is clean up the relay body ready for the rebuild. I ran a hone through the body of the relay to remove all the rusty dags and roughness that had accumulated within from the ingress of water at some point (or multiple points more likely). The outside got a light sanding and then a coat of black gloss enamel to match the steering arms. That's as far as we can go with the steering relay until the new parts arrive :
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=116184&stc=1&d=1478384830

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=116185&stc=1&d=1478384830

But, in more joyous news, I have finally gathered together all the bits required (well almost) to install his auxiliary fuel tank. The idea is to buy a 2nd SWB tank, changeover valve, hoses, fillers switch etc so that Camel has two fuel tanks which he can juggle between by a simple rocker switch on the dash. I had to send off to the USA for the electric fuel transfer solenoid as there was only one type available here and it was $165 - what the...?? In the end for AUD$40 plus postage I got one from the US. The fuel tank sender units will be changed over as well with the use of the same DPDT switch that activates the solenoid - so this means two tanks, one gauge which leaves the dash a bit more uncluttered and less confusing.

During the week I took a quick detour to Gympie to pick up the 2nd tank from a guy on eBay - in perfect nick for $50 - thanks Daniel and good luck with your S3 diesel conversion!!. Then it was a phone call to Paxton from British Off-Road to procure a filler neck, hose, cap and cowl to complete the ensemble. For the princely sum of $40 plus postage I had all I needed. I cannot tell you how great those guys at BOR are - always helpful and can source a swag of stuff for the S1, S2A and S3 Landies - thanks guys. Here it is all assembled - the only thing left to do now is make up a tank bracket which is a mirror of the one on the RHS, add some fuel hose and electrical wiring and voila - an auxiliary fuel tank to bring the total fuel capacity to 90 litres!!
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=116186&stc=1&d=1478385886

Also through the week this turned up - its a 34 ADM Weber from an XE Falcon. I searched the interweb for an XE wrecking and found a guy in Adelaide who was parting one out - the XE is a better bet for a carb swap for the Holden six rather than the XF as the XF has too many pollution connections etc. I got it for $80 plus postage!!! According to all the reports I have read, the 34 ADM is the PERFECT carb for the Holden 202 - better than a 320 Holley Economaster and much better than the 350 Holley which drowns the little six. If you have been reading along you will have paid attention to Homestar's comments regarding the Holley and its fuel starvation problems on inclines. This is because the fuel bowl and float/needle/seat is located at the front of the carb and on inclines the seat can be uncovered leading to fuel starvation. The Weber is a different design and doesn't suffer from the same malady. Also, it has progressive secondary throat butterfly which only opens gradually when the primary throat butterfly is approaching 100% - much better for performance and economy.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=116188&stc=1&d=1478386477

I had to either make or buy an adapter plate for the Weber to fit to the Cain 2-barrel manifold - which is a Holley pattern. I grabbed from my local Autobarn a Redline adapter for a Holley-Autolite which I modified to fit the Weber - it worked out OK although the bolt spacings were a little bit too close for my liking. I am hoping it will seal just fine and not suck in air. The Autolite adapter plate is a good fit as it doesnt fowl the cable linkage like the Lynx one. Anyway, done now and only a test run on the car will tell if it is doing the job or not.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=116187&stc=1&d=1478386477

More soon.

Cheers,
Tricky and Plugger

Archangel007

13th November 2016, 03:53 PM

Hi Gang,

Well its been a week since we last update so I guess we are about due. The parts that I ordered for the steering relay still haven't shown up - upon chasing the vendor it seems that some of the parts are out of stock (hmmm, wish they told me that before I made the order!! :censored:) so I have cancelled the order and gone with another vendor from the UK!! All good, just another weeks delay.

In the meantime and for the past few weeks my thoughts have turned to the brakes. While Camel will be getting all new everything when it comes to brakes, there were a few things that I didn't like.
1. The brakes were unboosted - this means more pedal effort for the same braking force! While not really a problem with experienced drivers like most of us, for the Plugger it could be courting disaster being his first car....
2. Single circuit brakes - one leak or nick from anywhere could render the brakes useless if he has any kind of serious fluid loss

The answer - Series III dual circuit master cylinder and booster. So, on the hunt I went and it didn't take me long to track one down at British Off-Road. While the dismantler didnt have one per se, one of the employees did and for $80 it as mine - thanks again Paxton!! A quick trip up and back and this is what I came home with - it even has the brake light activation switch:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=116489&stc=1&d=1479015019

I started the dismantling of it on Saturday - it was too hot to do anything else. After disconnecting the pedal assembly and the mounting bracket from the booster and master cylinder, I cleaned the pedal assembly up with a wire wheel and then gave it a good coat of primer. It was in great condition with no rust or corrosion of any kind and all parts moving freely. Even the brake light activation switch worked:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=116487&stc=1&d=1479015019
I kinda stopped there,as I think I will send it off to be powder coated along with the clutch and accelerator pedals.

I stripped down the master cylinder and it was immaculate inside - it still contained brake fluid which has stopped all the seals and pistons from drying out and becoming brittle. No nicks, tears or splits, no bulging of seals or pistons - so I put it straight back together again and gave it a coat of paint. The booster assembly likewise was in top condition as well. While these units are un-serviceable, it still held air without any leaks and there was no corrosion around the crimp line etc. The only part needed replacing was the rubber boot which surrounds the input shaft from the brake lever. I went down to the local brake store and got a replacement for next to nothing! A coat of paint and the whole lot looks good enough to put in the car. Still deciding whether to go gloss black with the booster body.....
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=116488&stc=1&d=1479015019

That's about if for this weekend. Its been really hot here so I was concentrating on doing things that were do-able inside or undercover. Next week we shall start on the rear suspension and get that out of the way prior to tackling the chassis. Hopefully by then the steering relay will have shown up and we can finish reassembly of that as well. Stay tuned!!

Cheer and thanks,
Tricky and Plugger

67hardtop

13th November 2016, 04:16 PM

Hi Tricky, you will have to cut the firewall out to fit the brake pedal assy as the pedal is in a different position compared with the original one. Its a really simple job which im sure you will easily accomplish. You will also need to make up gaskets for both pedal assys where they are bolted to the firewall. Boosted brakes are a good upgrade on a series. Did you get the proportioning valve with the pedal assy if you are going the split system? I would also be replacing the rubber hoses with braided lines. You will get better pedal feel. Have fun.

Cheers Rod

Sent from my GT-I9507 using AULRO mobile app

Dinty

13th November 2016, 05:22 PM

You might have to also modify the top panel on the right hand guard as well to suit the brake booster/master cyl cheers Dennis:)

Dark61

13th November 2016, 05:52 PM

I was thinking of dual circuit at some point for the 109.

Could I just add the booster and the dual circuit cylinder and retain the existing brake pedal or is there something different about the dual set up that stops me from doing that?
cheers,
D

67hardtop

13th November 2016, 07:38 PM

The booster type pedal is completly different as it pushes forwards and the standard pedal pushes backwards like the clutch pedal.

Cheers Rod

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JDNSW

14th November 2016, 06:44 AM

While dual circuit brakes offer a safety advantage in theory, if properly maintained the risk of single circuit brakes is very small. I have driven Landrovers and other cars with single circuit brakes for nearly sixty years, and have never experienced a brake failure. The closest to a brake failure I have ever had was with the dual circuit brakes in my 110, when it lost all boost due to a cracked booster housing - and discs with no boost are pretty feeble. (This statement is apart from wet drum brakes after wading!)

But I fitted a remote booster to my first 2a, and agree this is a valuable addition, especially on the swb (10" brakes).

And you need to check whether the S3 master cylinder yoou have is for an 88 or a 109 - they are different.

John

Archangel007

15th November 2016, 07:38 AM

Thanks everyone for the replies...

Rod - do you have any details on what the alterations to the firewall are?? You said simple, so I take it the alterations are only minor....pics?? No, ordered replacement rubber lines as I did not even think of braided.:mad: The prop valve - did not think this was necessary as all four points are identical - i.e. 10" drums. If the car had discs on the front or different sized drums then yes, a prop valve would be needed. With all slaves the same size, then all pressures should be identical, yes?? Also checked the Haynes manual - no mention of a prop valve either in the text or the diagrams even though they show the dual circuit system - that manual is so deficient!!

Dennis - OK, copy that! I think it might just be a case of 'suck it n see'... Do you have any details?

John - happened to my brothers Mini, cracked brake line due to corrosion - two pumps - nothing!! Dual circuit would have left at least one circuit still in service. I know, mighty rare, but I only have one son!! Its the 88" version I believe.

Cheers and thanks,
Tricky and Plugger

67hardtop

15th November 2016, 09:30 AM

Ok Tricky, here we go.

1. Pics of the gaskets i made from very thin rubber available from clark rubber.

2. The cut out in the firewall needed to fit the booster type pedal. U can see in the pic the clutch pedal cut out should be the same as the brake pedal cut out on ur firewall.
U need to cut the top part away, as in the pic, to fit the booster type pedal.

3. U will also need to fit a series three type guard, (sorry no pic), to suit boosted brakes, (u already have s3 type guards). Make sure u get the top guard mount bracket, where it bolts to the firewall, coz it's different, and the mud shield and steering box cover as well, coz they are all different.
This will save u cutting up the existing guard.
The bonnet will cover the cutout in the guard.

4. MOST IMPORTANT...
Attatched is also a pic of the prop valve which IS, and MUST, be fitted, to standard series 3 with boosted brakes, (6 cyl models), and a dual circuit system. This is what makes the dual circuit system work, when one circuit fails.
The prop valve effectively blocks the circuit that has failed, to allow for some pedal feel right near the bottom of the pedal travel, to the un affected circuit, (so u can still stop). It also has a switch on it, so u know when there is a failure. The switch activates a light on the dash, which u will have to wire up, very easy. I think thats about it for now.

5. If you fit an aftermarket booster to ur standard system it's easier, but a dual circuit system is so much safer.

Hope this helps Tricky.

Cheers Rod

Sent from my GT-I9507 using AULRO mobile app

Homestar

15th November 2016, 09:39 AM

Agree with Rod - the proportioning valve is a must. As mentioned, it serves 2 purposes. If one circuit fails, it caused a shuttle valve to move in the direction of the failure, blocking that port and keeping the brake pedal at a height and feel to what you would normally have. The second is that it has a switch that shorts to ground and brings the 'brake fail' light up if this does occur.

They aren't hard to get - do yourself a favour and hunt one down.

Oh, and don't stress too much on the braided lines - they do give a better feel, but on a 4 wheel drum system, I would challange most to be able to tell the difference :D

I just had new lines made up - 2" longer to suit the extra flex of the parabolics, but just out of rubber, they will work well enough for what I need, and I'm running a dual diaphram booster and front disks.

Archangel007

15th November 2016, 10:41 AM

Rod and Homestar,

Thanks heaps guys!! I am on the hunt for a proportioning valve now - if anyone out there has one they want to part with, please let me know!!

Rod, Camel's bulkhead is a mess and will need extensive repair - if I buy a S3 bulkhead (one for sale locally, repaired, good nick, should go for under $300) will that just bolt up to the rest of Camel's S2A stuff.... they should be identical right except for the brake cutout which is what we need...!!?? Just trying to kill two birds with one stone here.

Homestar - thanks for the affirmation, I had already purchased the new rubber brake lines so relieved with your comments!! Thanks!

You guys are great!!

Cheers and thanks,
Tricky and Plugger

67hardtop

15th November 2016, 11:38 AM

Hi Tricky, s3 bulkheads are different as the s3 dash is completly different to series 2a. Also there is a difference between 4 cyl and 6 cyl bulkheads. U would be best getting a post 1967 bulkhead if possible to suit as there are differences as well between pre and post '67. I am presuming ur 88" is post '67 going by the guards which came out in late '69. '67 to '68, headlights were still in rad support panel. Late '68 to '69 were mounted on the guards but to the outside of the panel like "bug eyes", and some ppl would put the lights into the rad panel as well, coz the rad panel just had blanking plates fitted mostly, so they were "4 eyed". Then late '69 through to early '72 the lights were fitted into the guards like s3. Also s3 had heaters fitted integrally with the dash for ADR,s and a plastic crash pad etc. It can be done but a lot of stuffing around. Better to get ur bulkhead repaired. All rust repair panels are available. Speak to the Ho Hars on here. He does rust repairs and also has heaps of second hand spares as well.

Cheers Rod

Sent from my GT-I9507 using AULRO mobile app

Dinty

15th November 2016, 02:30 PM

Sorry I can't help with an image of a Series top right hand side guard, cheers Dennis:)

Homestar

15th November 2016, 02:31 PM

Not only is the dash all different but so are the hinges - you'd then need series 3 or defender doors, and the windscreen mounts differently too I think so you may need a different frame.

Better off with a good 2a unit and just cut out the hole a bit bigger to fit the series 3 brake pedal assembly.

JDNSW

15th November 2016, 03:36 PM

Door hinges are different but the boltholes are in the same place, so they are interchangeable.

The major issues though, as indicated are the windscreen hinges and dashboard, which are not interchangeable - if you use the Series 3 bulkhead you are going to have to either modify the bulkhead to make it similar to the Series 2/2a, or fit Series 3 dash and windscreen. (which raises other issues including you need a Series 3 wiring harness, switchgear steering wheel bits and pieces, speedo cable, speedo - and probably other bits I haven't thought of!)

John

Archangel007

15th November 2016, 05:35 PM

Well done team!!

I am just going to stick with the original Camel S2A bulkhead and make repairs and alterations as the need arises. It seems like a simpler, and more original route (the term 'original' is used very loosely here...)!!!

Rod - September '69 I am lead to believe!

Thanks again to all who contributed, you make it so much easier!!

Cheers and thanks,
Tricky and Plugger

Archangel007

27th November 2016, 05:22 PM

Hi Guys,

Its been a few weeks since I last posted. While its not been overly busy at work, I have not been idle - there always seem to be something to do that takes up inordinate amount of time. I have been rearranging the workshop of late installing some industrial shelving to get all the car parts and bits up off the floor so I can at least move around the shop - finished that this weekend and will continue tidying the workshop over the coming weeks!

Last weekend saw some action with the Camel! While we are still waiting on some parts to finish off the steering relay, parts did arrive to start and finish the rear suspension and rebuild the entire rear end. The rear end being without any kind of steering parts is much simpler and our thought process would be that we should be able to strip it, clean it, paint it, replace parts and rebuild it all over two weekends - sounds do-able!

So, we dragged out the rear assembly and started with the tear-down process.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=116940&stc=1&d=1480230314

First off was to drain the oil from the rear diff. Unlike the front diff, the rear had oil in it which I was happy about. It wasn't all that healthy, but at least it was lubricated! It had been in there so long I suspect that it was starting to break down and lose its viscosity - it came out muddy brown, smelly and the consistency of water!!
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=116942&stc=1&d=1480230314

The one shackle that was rusted solid was cutoff and thrown into the bin. Likewise the shock absorbers were taken off and thrown in the bin - they were totally knackered and not re-usable. One of the spring shackle bushes were non-existent, the rest looked OK but just worn. Flipping the whole assembly over it was time to take the springs off. Unlike the front assembly which required judicious use of the angle grinder to get the U-bolts off the rear springs came off with only the use of the breaker-bar. The springs looked OK too - lying side-by-side the were identical and in good condition - also unlike the front ones! I am considering just painting them and putting them back on - we will see how they go with the new bushes and whether the eyes are flogged out or not.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=116944&stc=1&d=1480230429

The oil seals were of course knackered. The had allowed oil to flow past and get into the hubs. The brake linings were covered in the oil to the point of saturation and it would have been doubtful if the brakes would have been even slightly effective. Doesn't matter - another candidate for the wheelie-bin. New brake pads and slave-cylinders had shown up mid-week.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=116943&stc=1&d=1480230429

Continued...

Archangel007

27th November 2016, 06:58 PM

Continued....

I left the brake drums underneath the axle hubs to act as a stand for the waste oil pan to help catch the last of the oil as the hubs were cracked open. Flanges off, hubs off and axles pulled out - all good and no issues. The axle splines looked good with no signs of excessive wear. Filtering the oil revealed no metal flakes or parts so all was good there. One thing that did pique my interest was that there was silicon around the diff flange and mounting face (which to tell you the truth is a bot of a bug-bear of mine as it was an outright PIA to try and separate!!! :censored:). Unsure whether this was to cure an oil leak or in fact the diff centre was removed at some point for servicing or replacement...???? The diff itself was in good nick with less play that the front diff - which leads me to think it is in fact a replacement or its been overhauled in its dim dark past.

The diff housing itself had been painted red in its past life and then yellow!! So does this mean an overhaul? The brake line backing plates were removed with the brake lines still attached. The bolts holding the tabs on were rusted solid so I cut them off with the angle grinder - I will just replace them with some P-clips when the time comes - all the brake lines and T-piece were discarded with a view to replacing everything including the brake lines with stainless steel ones:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=116945&stc=1&d=1480232598

Then it was time to clean - I set the diff housing and centre up for pressure cleaning with the Karcher to get all the accumulated muck off from years of use and abuse! It really wasn't that bad, but the high pressure water jet made short work of most of it:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=116946&stc=1&d=1480232598

Once all the cleaning with the pressure washing was done it was time to get all the old paint and grime off with the wire wheel that wouldn't come off with water. I got Plugger onto it. He had decided that it was OK to come to work without the right PPE on - no long pants. He paid the price with a wire strand in the leg. Lesson learnt - the workshop and especially using a power tool requires the use of correct PPE ALL THE TIME!
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=116949&stc=1&d=1480233152

Plugger back into it with long pants this time!
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=116947&stc=1&d=1480233152

And finally, all the bits back in the shop all cleaned and ready for the painting process - which is scheduled for next weekend. Job done, time for a beer and a swim!
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=116948&stc=1&d=1480233152

Thanks to everyone for your continued support, enthusiasm and guidance with this project. I know that both myself and Plugger are enjoying the journey and I hope that you guys are too!! We appreciate your support!

Thanks and Cheers,
Tricky and Plugger

Homestar

28th November 2016, 05:23 AM

debruiser

28th November 2016, 05:54 AM

Ah yes - the old wire in the leg trick from the grinder - I think we've all been there many times, it's like a right of passage when cleaning old Land Rover bits. :D

Great work as always, still steaming ahead. :)

exactly why I've switched to those nylon wheels, they are slightly less abrasive but MUCH safer.

Good work guys. you are making great progress and it's good to see lots of photos and lots of help coming from the forum.

JDNSW

28th November 2016, 08:02 AM

The diff having been removed at some stage does not mean that it has needed repair - actual fairly unlikely in a swb - probably the most common reason for removing a diff would be to get out the bits of a broken axle.

John

steveG

28th November 2016, 03:50 PM

Homestar

29th November 2016, 11:36 AM

Great progress!! You guys are a great team.

Yes, the right PPE is a must. These days I won't use a wire wheel without a face shield. Wheel quality has reduced IMO and they seem to throw more wires that in the past. While I can cope with the odd wire in the leg/body, the idea of copping one in the face/eye freaks me out.

Steve

You may be right there - I've noticed the last couple of wire wheels seem to shed a lot more than I remember - I thought it was just me going soft in my old age...:D

Yes, a full face shield or at least fully sealed goggles are a must when using one IMO.

Archangel007

4th December 2016, 07:25 PM

Hi Gang,

Homestar and Debruiser - bought a full face shield with earmuffs after your horror stories - as they say 'Safety is Everyone's Business' and 'Its Better to be Safe Than Sorry' - cheap insurance at $35!!

John - less wear on the rear than on the front in terms of freeplay between pinion and crown - it just got me thinking.....

SteveG - Thanks. He is a great lad and eager to see this thing through!

Update....

Well it was fine painting weather this weekend so we decided to string up all the parts and start painting. We employed the same process with the rear suspension bits as we did with the front -> clean - wire wheel - mask - prime - top coat.... It worked for the rear suspension items so no reason it shouldn't work for the rear parts as well.

We got up nice and early to beat the heat and Plugger started on the masking.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117209&stc=1&d=1480843054

While Plugger was masking up all the parts prior to spraying, I decided to replace the pinion seal in the rear diff. Then it was a case of bolting the diff centre back up to the housing
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117210&stc=1&d=1480843054

So, string everything up and undercoat...
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117211&stc=1&d=1480843054

And don't forget the rear diff housing up on the stands...
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117212&stc=1&d=1480843054

Continued....

Archangel007

4th December 2016, 07:51 PM

Continued...

Because the temp was about 36 degrees in the shade, the primer flashed off in no time at all which allowed us to topcoat straight after lunch! I mixed up the enamel semi-gloss black with a bit of reducer and then went to work.

In no time flat we had three coats of top coat on all the hanging bits to cover the two coats of primer/surfacer:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117213&stc=1&d=1480844886

Dont forget the diff - Mmmm, shiny (well semi-shiny anyway!!)!!
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117214&stc=1&d=1480844886

And finally the springs. These were in really good nick with absolutely zero signs of corrosion or abuse. Once the old bushes were pressed out then they too got a good covering of semi-gloss black enamel:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117215&stc=1&d=1480844886

The topcoat dried by mid afternoon - it was time to pack everything up and batten down the hatches as the weather was looking horrid out to the west and south and indeed when it came it was a storm of biblical proportions!!

More next week when its time to put all the bits back together.

Cheers and thanks,
Tricky and Plugger

Archangel007

13th December 2016, 01:43 PM

Hi Gang,

Well on Saturday it was another few hours spent on the Camel.

With all the parts freshly painted it was a doddle just to put them all back together again. Bearing races were driven in, new bearings packed and installed and new seals driven home. Stuff some axles in some holes, bolt on some hubs, fit some springs and hangers and then bolt on some wheels.

New brake shoes, springs and slave cylinders for the stopping bit....
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117400&stc=1&d=1481600382

After a few hours we had this fine specimen to admire.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117399&stc=1&d=1481600382

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117401&stc=1&d=1481600382

Then, on Monday the brake lines, clips and union I ordered from Power Brakes SA arrived (always overnight, even from SA) and on they went. Just waiting for the strapping that goes around the axle tube to arrive to put that on...
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117402&stc=1&d=1481600382

That's it - consider another module finished. Next its time to get down and dirty with the chassis, and that will not be such a walk in the park!! Stay tuned...

Cheers and thanks,
Tricky and Plugger

mrapocalypse

18th December 2016, 03:20 PM

You're making this look Waaaaaay too easy.

I'm tempted to have another go at a series resto after swearing "NEVER AGAIN".

Keep it up I'm loving this project.

I.

Archangel007

21st December 2016, 07:57 PM

Thanks Mr Apocalypse, what a nice thing to say! It might look easy but let me tell you there is a lot of blood, sweat and tears involved (and some cursing too if the truth be told!!)...

Anyway, on with the show...

Well its chassis time. I was not looking forward to this, as I knew that in reality the chassis was worse than it looked - how much worse I don't know, but I just had this sneaky suspicion that all was not as it seemed. The first job when one undertakes major surgery is to get the patient up onto the operating table - in this case my custom chassis table which is just perfect for doing resto work like this (its done a few!!).... Up on the table I can see whether the chassis is straight, plumb or warped. In the case with this Camel's spine it was a case of a bit of a twist - not a great deal, about 15mm, but enough for it to be evident. I will endeavor to take most of that out as we go along (fingers crossed).
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117690&stc=1&d=1482313832

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117691&stc=1&d=1482313832

Once the patient was on the table it was time to take off all the stuff that we didn't need or will be replacing - brake lines, handbrake with the stuck button, ghetto towbar, bump stops, engine mounts, ghetto brackets and other rubbish, trailer plug, old shackles and bolts, and heaps of other stuff. It all went into a pile in the centre of the table. Then it was time to get the old suspension bushes out of the chassis - man, what a turd of a job!! When these things dont want to come out, they stay put!! With the use of drivers, cold chisels and a 8lbs lump hammer finally they all came out - but holy cow what a workout (I had forearms like Popeye at the end of all this bashing). These I reckon were the original bushes put in by Rover I swear they are that old and flogged....

And here are some of the culprits:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117692&stc=1&d=1482313832

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117693&stc=1&d=1482313832

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117694&stc=1&d=1482313832

I couldn't find number 4 as it shot off into the workshop somewhere along with one of my drifts!

Continued...

Archangel007

21st December 2016, 08:14 PM

And with all the hammering some things had to give...

The first casualty of war...
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117701&stc=1&d=1482315017

And then there was the chassis. Well it just fell to bits didn't it! Like disintegrated! Now I could really tell what was rotten and what was good - and the rotten was growing to very large areas!! The right side was just shot to bits. Left side was salvageable - just!
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117703&stc=1&d=1482315017

Rear crossmember was toast:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117704&stc=1&d=1482315017

And this is what was left under the chassis table. Seriously, all this dirt fell out of those rusty holes..!!!
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117702&stc=1&d=1482315017

Continued...

Archangel007

21st December 2016, 08:39 PM

Continued...

I decided to start at the front and work my way to the back - it just seemed a logical way to go. Work down each rail individually and tackle each rusty part until I finally made it to the rear cross-member where some in-depth work was to be carried out.

Some parts of the front cross-member were rotten. The topside looked OK but the underside, where the water and dirt pool, was badly corroded. The only way for a successful repair is to cut out the cancer and patch. So that's the process that was employed. No shortcuts here to salvation!!

Cut out affected areas:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117710&stc=1&d=1482316476

Repaired:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117711&stc=1&d=1482316476

Right side rail at the front bump-stop perch - removed the perch and voila - more cancer:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117712&stc=1&d=1482316476

Repaired:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117713&stc=1&d=1482316476

New bump-stop perch out of 3mm plate ready to be welded on:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117714&stc=1&d=1482316476

Continued...

Archangel007

21st December 2016, 09:05 PM

Continued...

As I stated before the left rail was toast. So, I just cut out the whole bottom section until I got good metal. There was a lot to cut out and the amount and dirt and rust inside was just phenomenal. Out with the vac, and then the welder. Luckily none of the crush tubes for the chassis bush or the steering box support plates were affected which was a godsend:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117717&stc=1&d=1482317934

I forgot to take a photo of it patched but you can see the result in the following photos (if you squint, roll you head to one side and hold your tongue just so...):D I cut off the right side outrigger, which revealed - yes you guessed it - more corrosion. Out with the angle grinder, cut it out, make up and new plate and weld in.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117718&stc=1&d=1482317934

Repaired:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117719&stc=1&d=1482317934

I decided to make up a whole new outrigger while I was there. Here it is tacked into its final position prior to welding. Just checking to make sure it was plumb and square:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117720&stc=1&d=1482317934

The fuel tank outrigger was also shot - but only half of it. I simply just cut it down the middle and made up a new outer half. Here it is welded onto the old section:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117721&stc=1&d=1482317934

Continued...

TimNZ

21st December 2016, 09:12 PM

And to think I was whingeing about the repairs I had to do! You're certainly getting it sorted quick smart!

Cheers,

Archangel007

21st December 2016, 09:35 PM

Continued...

Still on the right hand side rail I progressed down past the centre cross-member and down towards the rear spring hangers (that rusty area on the gearbox cross-member in the yellow box was repaired but I just didn't bother getting any photos of it). No surprises here in that yes, more corrosion that had to be excised! No before photos unfortunately as I was just trying to get this side finished and move on! It was about 38 degrees in the shed on this day and I was sweltering under the heat - you know its hot when you cant see what your welding because the sweat is dripping off your face onto the welding lens!

Repairs affected:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117722&stc=1&d=1482319404

And again (butted up to another chassis rail repair done by a previous owner):
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117723&stc=1&d=1482319404

OK, that was it for the left rail! Now we moved onto the right rail which wasn't nearly so bad. First order of business was to attend to some corroded areas within the left side bulkhead outrigger. Once again no before shots sorry, just the finished area.

Repaired:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117725&stc=1&d=1482319404

The end of the outrigger showed signs of excessive corrosion - how do I know this - well the bulkhead bolt was still inside the crush tube as I had to cut it off to get the bulkhead off. I decided to cut the end completely off and make up a new section. Here is what I found when I cut the end off (what the.....how did all that get in there? Out with the vac):
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117724&stc=1&d=1482319404

Cleaned out, treated and repaired:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117727&stc=1&d=1482320057

Continued...

Archangel007

21st December 2016, 09:52 PM

Thanks Tim for the nice comment - but in reality this was all done over two days as you will soon see!

Moving down the rail from the bulkhead outrigger I noticed that the left side rear fuel tank outrigger (not sure if this is what you call it, as there is no fuel tank on this side... or is there???) thingy had some rather large stress cracks in it - man this SWB has had a hard life!!. Unfortunately I forgot to take some after shots of the repairs but in essence the repair on the flange was just welded over from the underside and the weld to the rail was simply re-welded but with a nice fillet and a bit more penetration than would have been done at Solihull.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117728&stc=1&d=1482320759

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117729&stc=1&d=1482320759

And while I was at it, I made up a new left side front fuel tank bracket as a mirror of the right side one, and welded that to the frame. Camel is going to run twin tanks to give him some endurance legs that can be switched independently of each other inside the cab and on the go!
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=117730&stc=1&d=1482320973

That completed the works done to the LHS rail and finally we ended at the rear cross-member, so that was it for the day - it was a long day! Time for a tub and a beer! I was knackered by the end of it...

Cheers and thanks,
Tricky and Plugger

67hardtop

22nd December 2016, 07:08 AM

Thats great dedication to the green oval. Most would have called it a day seeing that rust. Just an idea for you, why not modify the gearbox x member while the chassis is so accessable to make the x member removable for easier gearbox removal in the future? Saves removing all the floor and seat box etc if you need to do the clutch.

Cheers Rod

Sent from my GT-P5110 using AULRO mobile app

debruiser

23rd December 2016, 11:57 AM

JDNSW

24th December 2016, 07:17 AM

While I agree that making the cross member removable when you have the chassis in this state, it should be pointed out that it is actually possible to replace the clutch by sliding the gearbox back, without totally removing it. (Did this in the middle of the Simpson in 1966)

John

OneOff

30th December 2016, 01:55 PM

Bloody 'ek, all that rust would have beaten me... I'd have been looking for another chassis. Well done, you have made a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

Young Plugger has a good teacher/mentor there.

Peter.

Archangel007

2nd January 2017, 07:53 AM

Hi Guys,

Thanks OneOff for that really nice comment - you try to pass on the knowledge as best you can and give them the tools to do the job themselves - sometimes they get it sometimes they dont!

Debruiser and 67 - never even thought about that. I have finished with the chassis now in reality but that's something that might be done in the future. Damnit wish I had prior knowledge.....

John - how often do you need to change clutches? I guess it depends on the driver and the amount of work the vehicle is doing.

Anyway, onwards and upwards:

Last episode viewers we had repaired the rails and each individual x-member from front to back and this culminated in just the rear x-member to be done. This was going to be a task in itself as it was in really, really terrible condition. It was badly corroded, twisted and the ghetto towbar arrangement from the previous owner had pinched it together in the middle - and the more it degraded the more the previous owner tightened it. Nothing like having a loose towbar I guess.

I started on the passenger side - remembering that the frame is upside down on the chassis table. With this side extension piece two sides of it were completely wasted and these were simply cut away - to reveal more corrosion on the main rail behind the extension. It was a case of cut it out and patch of course. This area was a real PITA to weld - you couldnt get in there to clean the surface properly so the quality of the weld suffered - as long as it was structurally sound I guess was all that mattered but the welds looked like ****...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118065&stc=1&d=1483307371

And repaired:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118060&stc=1&d=1483306695

Then why we were in this location we decided to do something for future works. I discussed with Plugger about carrying a 2nd spare and some emergency fuel for Camel when he is out exploring - just in case. I didn't want him carrying a spare on the roof, or fuel for that matter either, so a swing-away spare wheel carrier with integrated jerrycan holder hanging off the back was the logical solution. To this end, we welded in some 10mm reinforcing plates in the internal space to allow us to drill and tap some fixings for the bottom hinge point - nothing like some forward planning and hidden mounting points:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118061&stc=1&d=1483306695

Then we closed up the passenger side extension - but took it right back to the frame rail to stop water and dirt from getting inside the internal cavity and rusting it out from the inside out like happened this time. I will seal all the welds with black Sika just to make sure and drill some holes to be able to spray the cavity with Tectyl or something and then use rubber bungs to seal the holes:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118062&stc=1&d=1483306695

I finished with an end cap for this side but forgot to take a photo - sorry guys. But it turned out really well and I was happy with the result.

Continued...

Archangel007

2nd January 2017, 08:16 AM

Continued...

So, after the left side extension was done we moved onto the centre part. First order of business was to rip the top off this area and see what little hidden gems were located within. To my surprise (NOT) the internal walls of the cavity were absolutely Swiss cheese. I still don't know how the previous owner didn't pull the ass-end off this thing when towing his trailer around the farm - testament to the hardiness of the little Landy I guess and the soundness of the original design.

Passenger side:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118067&stc=1&d=1483308385

Drivers side:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118066&stc=1&d=1483308385

The centre webbing was also rubbish. You can see where the member has been pinched in due to over-tightening of the towbar bolts. This will need to be addressed too:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118068&stc=1&d=1483308385

It was a case of plate over this to bring back the structural integrity as it was almost impossible to get in there and cut out this section with cutting out the entire front and rear face - which would have culminated in all three side being removed - hmmm, no - I don't think so! So it was a case of remove as much as possible, treat and then plate over. And once again, a real PITA to weld due to the fact I couldn't get in there to clean the surface thoroughly.

Passenger side:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118069&stc=1&d=1483308682

Drivers side:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118070&stc=1&d=1483308682

This should reinstate the rear x-member structural integrity in these areas enough to bring back to par with how it rolled off the assembly line.

Continued...

Archangel007

2nd January 2017, 08:50 AM

Continued...

We decided to do something funky with the centre part of the rear x-member - an integrated Hayman Reese-type hitch receiver built into the rear x-member itself. I would not have even contemplated doing this unless I had to chop out this whole centre section and reinstate it - which I had to do so why not! I ordered some 65x65 RHS with a 6mm wall thickness - same as what the towbar manufacturers use - and went to work. First up was to drill some 16mm holes in each vertical face of the RHS for the hitch pin, and then weld the sucker in.

I cut out the front face of the rear cross-member and replace that with some new steel (sorry no pics but you can see it in the second photo below), then proceeded to cut the square hole through the rear face and then the front face - maintaining the correct centreline alignment. I then welded the RHS to these two plates on the internal cavity to allow to ensure that the outer faces were flush.

Then we cut two reinforcing plates out of 3mm steel to cover the rear face (which was a slightly dented but unaffected by corrosion, it looked OK) and also a piece that would span the flanges on the front face and lock in the RHS. This means that over a span of 125mm the RHS is welded to 2x 2mm plates and 2x 3mm plates - which should be enough to withstand towing the Queen Mary!! I didn't take any photos on the progress but here are some of the finished product.

Rear reinforcing plate which covers the original rear plate and simply reinforces it:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118071&stc=1&d=1483309805

Rear face again:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118072&stc=1&d=1483309805

Front reinforcing plate which spans the rolled flanges and reinforces this front area (also note the new steel on this face to the right and a patch to the main rail over on the far left to be done later):
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118073&stc=1&d=1483309805

And what was Plugger doing while all this was going on - getting some practice with the 5" angle grinder and technical drawing (guys, please note that Plugger is modelling the latest in PPE after the wire wheel incident :D)..
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118074&stc=1&d=1483309805

Continued...

Archangel007

2nd January 2017, 09:18 AM

Continued...

Now that the hitch receiver was welded to all the vertical plates, it was time to put a lid back on this section and button it up. I measured the opening and sent the dimensions to the cutting room - aka Plugger - and welded this on. Then we cut a piece of 5mm plate and cut some 32mm holes in it for the safety chain d-shackles. This then got welded onto the bottom plate and welded onto the RHS as well. It was now solid as a rock and it was time to move onto the drivers side extension. To me, the integrated hitch receiver was a really good idea and I was thrilled by how it turned out (as was Plugger). He can now install and remove the tongue at will (prevents theft and the occasional shin-bashing), and he can adjust the towing height to suit his camper trailer with an adjustable tongue etc - something that was impossible with the original design.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118075&stc=1&d=1483312098

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118076&stc=1&d=1483312098

The process for the drivers (right) side extension was identical to the left side - they both had the same serous corrosion in the exact same areas. Firstly it was a case of cutting off the top and front faces to reveal the glory within. Luckily, this side did not reveal a gaping hole on the chassis rail but you can see where the PO has patched a section on the top of the rail (actually the underside). So, same as before, we made up the swing-away spare wheel and jerrycan holder mounting plate and welded that in:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118077&stc=1&d=1483312098

And then proceeded to make up a top and side out of one piece and weld that on. As before, the extension was taken all the way to the rail to make this area stronger and stop all the crap getting into the rear x-member cavity. And as before, all the welds will be sealed with Sika to stop water ingress.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118078&stc=1&d=1483312619

With the end cap welded on the original holes on the rear face were plugged and this area is now finished:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118079&stc=1&d=1483312098

Continued...

Gordie

2nd January 2017, 09:30 AM

Nice towbar mate! You are rightly proud of that work, well done.

Archangel007

2nd January 2017, 09:38 AM

Continued...

The rear x-member reinforcing tabs showed signs of corrosion underneath them. In fact this is a terrible design as this area simply acts a water and mud scoop and the mud then accumulates in this area and under the tabs without ever having a chance to drain away - silly!! I removed the plates to reveal - yes you guessed it - more corrosion.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118081&stc=1&d=1483313774

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118082&stc=1&d=1483313774

I reinstated these areas and welded on new reinforcing tabs (sorry no pics). I will seal this entire area with black Sika when the time comes so this won't happen again.

With the rear x-member completed, it was time to cut n patch all the other little areas of corrosion. The hole on the right frame rail adjacent to the rear x-member was done (sorry no pics) and all the pinholes were done. If I found an area of corrosion say the size of a 10c peice or less I would get out the step drill and drill out out intil I got good metal, and then plug it with a holesaw cut-out piece which I have a habit of collecting for this very reason - it makes things so much easier (handy hint there for all you DIY'ers...). An area on the front x-member which I had previously missed around the steering relay got the cut n patch treatment so all was good here.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118084&stc=1&d=1483313774

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118083&stc=1&d=1483313774

And finally with the order of the RHS for the receiver hitch I ordered a length of angle to replace the strut brace for the drivers side bulkhead outrigger and welded that on and the outrigger itself was fully seam welded to the chassis rail.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118085&stc=1&d=1483313774

Continued...

Archangel007

2nd January 2017, 09:51 AM

Continued...

So that was it for the day - it was 10-hour day and I was knackered by the end of it. It had been hot and we both sweltered in the middle of the day - the pool and a beer beckoned and it was very well received.

A final shot from the frame right side up from the rear while on the chassis table. The 15mm twist in the frame I got down to 8mm - acceptable to me as it might pull down to less than that when the body gets tightened down. All in all I am very pleased with where we have got to. We are almost to the halfway mark with the restoration and we are still contemplating a June 30 finish date to be registered and on the road (fingers crossed).
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118087&stc=1&d=1483314480

Final job for the day was to lift the chassis off the chassis table and clamp it to the rotisserie in readiness for painting. As I took this pic Plugger was already in the pool with a Bundaberg Ginger Beer in hand. He worked very hard today and I am so proud of him. His birthday is on January 3rd straight after Xmas and we have told him that he is getting something really special. Its a combined Xmas/birthday present from his parents and grandparents and he has no idea what it is - but it is frustrating the hell out of him so this should teach him a little patience too. If you are reading this Plugger, so proud of you mate and a job well done!!
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118086&stc=1&d=1483314480

To all our friends on the forum, Plugger and I wish you a (belated) Happy New Year with good tidings to come. Cheers and thanks to everyone for your continued support and encouragement.

Cheers and thanks,
Tricky and Plugger

TimNZ

2nd January 2017, 10:00 AM

Wow, I'm impressed you've saved that chassis! I for one probably would have walked away from it! I feel you pain when it comes to trying to weld parts you can't get clean, the oil on the inside of my chassis would catch fire and the flame/gasses would blow the shielding gas away.

Cheers,

Archangel007

2nd January 2017, 11:14 AM

I hear you Tim!! Its a PITA alright!!

Thanks for the kind words and encouragement too BTW, much appreciated.

Cheers,
Tricky

Archangel007

3rd January 2017, 09:24 AM

Well, its Pluggers birthday today, and we finally revealed what we got him for his birthday....
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118142&stc=1&d=1483399347

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118143&stc=1&d=1483399347

They were on sale at 4WD Supacentre so we took the plunge and bought one while they were virtually half price! The roof rack and the roof-top tent seem really good quality too so I hope it will last him a few years

Plugger was so overwhelmed with emotion he burst into tears!! Just a nice reward for all his hard work and dedication.

We took this route because, although he wants a camper trailer to go exploring with, he just simply doesn't have the experience of towing a trailer and I think that would not be a good idea. Maybe after a few years of driving around in Camel and getting very familiar with the vehicle then he should look at getting one. Its one thing to be able to drive a car well but another to be able to drive and tow a trailer well. All in good time mate!!

Cheers and thanks,
Tricky and Plugger

OneOff

3rd January 2017, 01:13 PM

---------------- :o

OneOff

3rd January 2017, 01:16 PM

Holy Cow!!!

Can you be my Dad too??? :TIC:

Archangel007

4th January 2017, 12:03 PM

Ummm, sorry, but no!!;):D:p

Archangel007

9th January 2017, 10:17 AM

Hi Guys,

Following on from the chassis repairs before Xmas, Plugger and I had time post Xmas to get the chassis painted. To this end prior to everyone closing for the silly season I ordered the chassis paint. I decided to use the KBS product which is an Australian product and equivalent to POR 15 et al! It is supposed to be very abrasive and impact resistant - as long as the application procedure is adhered to religiously!
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118321&stc=1&d=1483920077

Everything you need to get the job done was included in the kit - $108 plus freight direct from KBS!!
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118322&stc=1&d=1483920077

We dragged the rotisserie with chassis attached up the hill and parked it behind the house. A good place to paint was on the grass as application was to be done by small foam roller and brush - this stuff was expensive so I was not going to waste half of it by spraying (and this stuff adheres like kaka to a blanket so I didn't want any overspray on my Dodge Pickup or the house and shed)!
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118320&stc=1&d=1483920077

Step one was to thoroughly wash/scrub the chassis with the supplied cleaner. It was to be diluted with water in varying ratios dependent on how much grease n grime was covering the chassis. I mixed it about 4:1 in a bucket and got Plugger to work with a scrubbing brush. The degreaser/cleaner seemed to work just fine. We rinsed as we went as the instructions say not to let it dry on the chassis.Here is Plugger going hard at it with the scrubbing brush:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118323&stc=1&d=1483920077

Then once we had cleaned it once we did it a 2nd time just to be sure:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118324&stc=1&d=1483920077

Step 2 was to neutralise the rust. This was basically just tannic acid to make the rusted areas inert. It came with a handy trigger spray attachment that wasn't handy at all - it didn't work very well and just leaked everywhere. Once the acid had been applied this was also rinsed off and left to dry. Areas that had turned a milky-white was indicative of the acid doing its job. Rinse off and leave to dry for an hour. It was lunchtime so we had a bite to eat while it was drying...

Continued...

Archangel007

9th January 2017, 10:27 AM

Continued...

Once the neutralisation process was complete and the chassis was completely dry, it was time to paint. This stuff being an enamel gives off no VOC's so respirators are not needed but long sleeve shirts and gloves are mandatory. Plugger ended up getting some on his forearm which will take some time to come off - the paint adheres that well.

After about two hours and two coats here is the finished product. I must say that the paint flows on really well and is self-leveling. It retains a high gloss even when dry (you can get semi-gloss as well but we chose gloss. It also comes in 2-3 other colours!!). The instruction on the supplied sheet says that the supplied 500ml is enough to do one chassis and I was really skeptical about this. However once we had the two coats done there was even a bit left over in the can for touch-ups later on!!

I cannot vouch for the durability of the product just yet but feedback on the interweb seems to be mostly positive. Time will tell I guess! Anyway, here is a couple of shots of the finished product - not perfect by any means but done!! Leave it to dry overnight then roll it back down to the lower shed to start the rebuilding phase!
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118325&stc=1&d=1483921594

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118326&stc=1&d=1483921594

If anyone is interested here is the website for KBS Coatings. Just click on the link that takes you to the chassis kit page:
Welcome to KBS Coatings | KBS Coatings Australia (http://www.kbs-coatings.com.au/)

Cheers and thanks,
Tricky and Plugger

Pedro_The_Swift

10th January 2017, 06:36 AM

Just out of curiosity--
what other colours were available?

and who chose black:p

mick88

10th January 2017, 07:40 AM

Nice work on the chassis! I like the rotisserie too! Did you knock it up yourself or is it a commercially made one? Cheers, Mick.

Archangel007

10th January 2017, 09:17 AM

Hi Pedro,

If you go to their website and go to the chassis kit page, there is a drop-down menu. Colours available are gloss black, satin black, silver and grey! Here is the link to that page:
Chassis Coater Kit - Rust Removal Paint (http://www.kbs-coatings.com.au/product/chassis-coater-kit/)

The black is part of the overall colour scheme we decided on in early '16 - BMW Dakar Yellow (paint code 206) and Gloss Black. It is explained early on in this thread...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118352&stc=1&d=1484003815

Thanks for the kind words Mick. Commercially available one this one as I could not buy the raw materials and build it for what I paid for it!! It gets used often so it has paid for itself by now!

Cheers and Thanks,
Tricky and Plugger

TimNZ

11th January 2017, 07:08 PM

Quick question re the KBS paint, did you brush it on or spray it? I had a pig of a time spraying it.

Cheers,

Tim

Gordie

11th January 2017, 07:15 PM

Quick question re the KBS paint, did you brush it on or spray it? I had a pig of a time spraying it.Small foam roller and brush, he mentioned Tim.

TimNZ

11th January 2017, 07:45 PM

That's what I get for reading the pictures more closely than the words :angel:

Cheers,

Archangel007

12th January 2017, 11:48 AM

Quick question re the KBS paint, did you brush it on or spray it? I had a pig of a time spraying it.

Cheers,

Tim

Hi Tim,

As per Gordie's reply.....No! I rolled all the flat areas using one of those 3" mini rollers (actually 60mm wide!!!)- it worked a treat. For all the other areas we used a brush. It leveled out real nice with no brush marks in the finish whatsoever! I have heard that it is a bugger to spray and needs to be thinned down considerably. But, apparently, the more you thin it the less abrasion and impact resistance you get (thin coats) and the less shine you get too!! I think rolling/brushing is the way to go.

Cheers,
Tricky

stealth

13th January 2017, 11:00 AM

Not a criticism but just curious after all the effort you put into repairing the chassis why you didn't get it sandblasted before painting.

Archangel007

13th January 2017, 07:00 PM

Hi Stealth,

Two reasons:
1) I didn't want sand lying inside the rails just adding to the mix of crap in there, keeping moisture locked in a adding to corrosion. Last shell I got sandblasted still had sand filtering out of it six months later despite numerous attempts with the compressed air and vacuum trying to get it all out of the nooks n crannies.

2) KBS systems state that the paint gets better adhesion of the chassis is left in a rough (read: rusty but not scaly) state as this rough texture promotes adhesion.

Hope this helps.

Cheers,
Tricky

Archangel007

15th January 2017, 10:12 AM

Well Saturday was hot, damn hot!! The outside temp up here in Brisbane measured 41 degrees at 12.30pm (no, I'm not kidding) and in the shop is was like 46 degrees according to my Fluke - thats damn hot!!

Anyway, we started early in the shed at 0700 to get the chassis back on its wheels which will make it so much easier to roll around and store while clients work is going on. The rear suspension went on first - took about 30 mins and bolted right up with no issues. Some fettling of the rear springs was required to get them all nice and aligned and relaxed but in it went so easily - yay!!

The front however!!!! One of the chassis bushes just refused to go in - even with help from an 8lb sledge and all it was doing was deforming the bush. The issue was when I used brute force (no other way!!) to get the old bushes out left some deep scoring on the inside of the chassis bush tubes surface and this had to be rectified. After extensive use of a half-round file and then honing the surface with a wheel-cylinder hone all was good and the bush just tapped straight in with a slight interference fit! After that it was easy to bolt the front suspension up. again with some slight fettling of the springs etc for alignment.

Here are a few pics of the finished product. We knocked off at midday saturated and ready for a beer and to hit the pool - which incidentally was starting to get warm after all these long period of excessive heat!! We are now officially at the half-way mark, with six-months to go. Enjoy...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118559&stc=1&d=1484438573

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118560&stc=1&d=1484438573

Cheers and thanks,
Tricky and Plugger

Toxic_Avenger

15th January 2017, 04:01 PM

I like your work, but what I really like is your shed.
To me, this thread triggers massive shed envy.

I think you need to do a shop tour and show us your toys.

Archangel007

17th January 2017, 09:14 PM

Hey Toxic,

Your wish is my command. This is the home of Tricky Performance Engineering. Here is a quick guided tour....

Here is the outside of the workshop. Its basically a 12m x 12m barn-style shed. Only 144m2 so I need to be very careful in how I utilise the space (something it seems I am not the best at...). LED floods light up the driveway if needed. Please excuse the rubbish out the front, not tip day yet!
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118679&stc=1&d=1484650947

Left bay looking towards the rear. This is where most of Camel resides. On the left the sandblasting cabinet, parts washing bin, linisher and TIG. Notice the Martini Racing livery along all the perimeter walls (my favourite colour scheme):
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118680&stc=1&d=1484650947

Refreshments, entertainment and telecommunications to your immediate left as you walk in. Personnel door leads outside to the pool:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118681&stc=1&d=1484650947

The latest project - an Aussie made supercar for a Doctor sitting on the chassis table (which is used often):
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118682&stc=1&d=1484651340

Looking over at the middle bay - the AMG donor for the supercar and my '56 F100 chassis sitting on top of the hoist. 1200x1200 welding table in the foreground (on wheels) and in front of the guillotine:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118683&stc=1&d=1484651340

Continued...

Toxic_Avenger

17th January 2017, 09:29 PM

Everyone mash that like button for more! :cool:

I'd noticed the Martini colours. Great taste.
They say if you enjoy your work, you'll never work another day in your life. Doing this kind of work would be up there with one of my dream jobs. Problem is l lack all of the skills, and have no time management, if my own build / mods are anything to go by :eek:

Archangel007

17th January 2017, 09:35 PM

Continued...

This is the (ahem) 'office'. Not finished lining it yet but there is to go in a drafting table against the right wall and then some more shelves on the back wall. To the left is the storage cupboards which hold bits n pieces and spares etc and at the back corner you can just see the big compressor (in here to isolate the noise from the neighbors). Back wall also holds all the lifting gear (slings, shackles etc). Behind the wheelchair is Pluggers freshly-built 202. The wheelchair traction motor will get used for something....
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118684&stc=1&d=1484652643

This is the machining room - lathe, mill, drill press and roller cabinet for all the machining bits n pieces. Rack up top to store all the long and heavy lengths of steel etc. Yet to go in is a CNC lathe and/or CNC plasma cutter. There is room for both to the left...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118686&stc=1&d=1484652643

This is the end bay looking out towards the driveway. Racking system holding (mostly) client stuff. Pan brake in the foreground, mobile steel rack in the centre. Lots of bench space down the left wall that needs to be uncluttered and made usable again! '56 F100 bonnet to the left...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118685&stc=1&d=1484652643

The cluttered bench space - love the stripes!! I have lots of art on the walls - to the left is a picture of the Le mans Porsche garage from 1970 and all-conquering 917...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118687&stc=1&d=1484652643

Third bay looking towards the centre bay - some toys to play with...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118688&stc=1&d=1484652643

Continued...

Archangel007

17th January 2017, 09:50 PM

Continued...

Overhead boom crane No.1 rated to 300kg. This crane services the right and centre bays. When you are a one-man-band these come in super handy for manual handling duties...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118689&stc=1&d=1484653649

Overhead boom crane No.2 - same rating. this crane services the left and centre bays. Notice the blue reticulated air-line throughout the shed to supply shop-air...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118690&stc=1&d=1484653649

The loft - handy for storing Land Rover and F100 parts. The electric jib crane can lift 500kg and is bolted to a very large 12mm steel plate which is through-bolted to the floor joists. The 13,000lbs winch is for pulling clients cars up and down the driveway and into the shop - you could not push a car up the driveway so the winch does all the work...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118691&stc=1&d=1484653649

And the last shot which is the rear of bay one and all the Camel parts. Mercedes AMG doors to the left, '56 F100 door to the right. As soon as Camel is finished the Mini will go and this area will be turned into a 6mx4m rear-draft fully lined and filtered spray booth so I can paint all my own work (I find it almost impossible to find a good spray painter these days)...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118692&stc=1&d=1484653649

That's about it then. Hope you guys liked it. Not quite finished yet but almost there.

Cheers and thanks,
Tricky and Plugger

mick88

18th January 2017, 06:01 AM

Ripper of a "shed", well more like an operating theatre really.
Some fantastic machine shop tools to play with in there.
What is your calling?
Keep up the great posts.

Cheers, Mick.

travelrover

18th January 2017, 07:25 AM

Ripper of a "shed", well more like an operating theatre really.
Some fantastic machine shop tools to play with in there.
What is your calling?
Keep up the great posts.

Cheers, Mick.

Absolutely Mick, brilliant

I am particularly interested in the boom cranes. I have 250kg electric hoist motor (and winch etc) which I am hoping to mount in a similar fashion to yours. Assuming your doors are around 3 meters high I guess the booms are around three meters off the deck and about the same in length? What gauge steel did you use and are they just resting on the pivot points via a pin or more secure? :p

Archangel007

18th January 2017, 12:13 PM

Wow, thanks guys for the kind words!!!

Mick - Engineer by Profession but I started that late in life. Started off as a boilermaker apprentice believe it or not. Cars have always been the passion, but never seemed to quite get all my **** in one sock so to speak until just recently. I have been in business now since July 2013 so early days - but have done some really cool stuff since then - have a peek at this mid-mount Toyota V8-powered rear wheel drive Kombi I did for a client (used to be a van but turned it into an xtra-cab ute)....
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118701&stc=1&d=1484704422

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118702&stc=1&d=1484704422

Another project - Toyota powered, turbo charged and intercooled Mini with water-methanol injection. The owner went nuts over the Martini livery. The front spoiler isnt on it but it covers the front-mount intercooler. The Kombi above is in the background..
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118703&stc=1&d=1484704845

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118704&stc=1&d=1484704845

The Mini in the background in the previous post is a Honda F20B VTEC powered mid-mount rear wheel drive - but the owner has run out of cash!!

Travelrover - The booms are mounted at around 2.5m - at the knee joint in the C-section column as this is the strongest part. The back of the C-section column has been plated to stop spreading. The boom is 60mm pipe with 4mm wall thickness. The weight limitation is the pipe trolley (yellow bit) as its only rated to 300kg. The chain blocks are rated at 1T. The pivots are 25mm solid round through 12mm thick plate and gussets. Just resting on the pivots with a snap-ring for security - they can never jump off by themselves. I have lifted up the Toyota 1UZFE V8 and gearbox with no issues. Very handy and I use them almost every day!

Hope you all like the pics. Let me know if you guys ever want a custom car built - I only do one-offs and I love doing stuff that is different!

Cheers and thanks,
Tricky

grey_ghost

18th January 2017, 02:13 PM

travelrover

18th January 2017, 07:06 PM

Wow, thanks guys for the kind words!!!

Travelrover - The booms are mounted at around 2.5m - at the knee joint in the C-section column as this is the strongest part. The back of the C-section column has been plated to stop spreading. The boom is 60mm pipe with 4mm wall thickness. The weight limitation is the pipe trolley (yellow bit) as its only rated to 300kg. The chain blocks are rated at 1T. The pivots are 25mm solid round through 12mm thick plate and gussets. Just resting on the pivots with a snap-ring for security - they can never jump off by themselves. I have lifted up the Toyota 1UZFE V8 and gearbox with no issues. Very handy and I use them almost every day!

Hope you all like the pics. Let me know if you guys ever want a custom car built - I only do one-offs and I love doing stuff that is different!

Cheers and thanks,
Tricky

thanks Tricky that's fantastic, you certainly do things very well!

67hardtop

18th January 2017, 07:15 PM

Yep - I've now got shed envy... :(

I am about to start building a shed, but it will be nowhere near the quality as yours, nor will it have anywhere near the amount of equipment in it. :eek:

Now where did I put that winning Tatts ticket? ;)

X2 i can tell u that for nothing. Jeez what a setup. Man am i jealous [emoji106].

I think you've been asked before but, wanna adopt an old mechanic.....dad??[emoji41]

(I already know the answer)

Lmao...

Cheers Rod

GG I got the winning one here...i wish hehehe

Cheers Rod

stealth

18th January 2017, 09:02 PM

Do you do all your own panel work too Tricky? I wish I could keep my shed that clean!!
What is in store for the side whackers on the tyres?

Archangel007

19th January 2017, 09:42 PM

GG - just as long as its an efficient use of space and you don't try to cram too much junk in there you will be fine. My shed has to earn me a living, so it must be functional.

Travelrover - thanks for the kind words. Hope your overhead boom cranes work for you!

67 - I will pass on everything I know if you want to learn!

Stealth - yes I do. Its just something you start doing and then get better at the more you do it. Got to get myself a good motorised bead-roller then I will be set!! I clean as I go, so it never gets to look like a pack of poo-ticket!!. The side-valves have all been sold. I bring in cars n stuff from the USA as a side-line business to supplement the income when times are slow. Those side-valves sold within a week!!

If any of you are chasing some yank iron, let me know...

Cheers,
Tricky

Archangel007

22nd January 2017, 11:51 AM

Well Saturday has come and gone and I am so glad that the heat was drawn off by the brief showers we had - which left the humidity at 98%...... But its overcast today and the temp is back down into the 20's.

Anyway, back to the Camel. Last episode saw us put the Camel back on its wheels and become a rolling chassis again. This marked a major milestone in the project and the halfway point of the restoration. The parts we ordered from the UK to overhaul the steering relay have not arrived yet even though were ordered weeks ago. I suspect a very slow boat from Portsmouth!! While there is still a plethora of parts to be ordered for Camel, we need to assess exactly what is needed before we order them - case in point is the gearbox - it needs pulling apart and inspecting what needs to be replaced before ordering etc.

Anyway, this weekend we decided to have a bit of fun. Plugger has got grand designs on this car and intends to use it to virtually go anywhere and everywhere. So to facilitate this, we have modified the vehicle for this intent - extra fuel tank to extend the range, uprated and lifted suspension, bigger engine for easier load-hauling and integrated towbar to tow the camper when he gets one etc. One thing we were cognisant of is carrying an extra spare. While he will be carrying a spare on the bonnet as per the original design, I wanted him to carry a 2nd spare and not up high on the roof rack so it upsets the CoG. On the rack he has room for the tent and some MaxTraks and that's about it. Also, if he goes off-road without the rack he is back to having only one spare.

The solution - a swingout spare wheel carrier (SSWC) to hang off the back. You all may remember we thought about this very early on and made provisions for mounting a SSWC within the chassis when we rebuilt it. Here are the photos previously posted of the mounting hard-points we integrated into the chassis while it was being renovated...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118827&stc=1&d=1485047178

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118828&stc=1&d=1485047178

So, we decided we would have a crack at building one. I had some precision tube left over from a previous job and this was the perfect size for the carrier. We spent the previous night designing and drawing it up, measuring and planning. We decided that the SSWC would have a wheel-holder on one side and a jerrycan holder on the other. The width of the Land Rover can easily facilitate both. The extra weight would be around 35kg's max and if we designed it right it should not have any adverse issues with the body - seeing as the chassis would be taking all the weight.

We laid out the design on the welding table and went to work. The pipe bender made short work of the bends and soon we had the frame welded up and completed. I welded a 5mm plate across the frame and made an upstand to space the spare wheel away from the frame so it doesn't rub, then welded on the round mounting face for the spare to mount to. This will need to be drilled for the press-in wheels studs which I will order Monday. By 10am this is what we had...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118824&stc=1&d=1485047178

I allowed for an upsize in wheel diameter and width as well - up to and including 235/80R16's...

Next came the fabrication of the jerrycan holder. It was a basic box design and only needed to be beefy enough to hold a full jerrycan and its 20 litres of fuel. I decided to fab this up out of 2mm sheet as this would have ample strength once it was turned into a geometric shape. After some cutting and welding, and some perforations using the dimple dies, this is what we came up with...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118825&stc=1&d=1485047735

It is slightly oversized from a standard jerrycan, but once we line it with some closed-cell foam to hold the container firmly it will be perfect...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=118826&stc=1&d=1485047735

The perforations add to the strength of the design without adding weight. We need to sort the mounting of the rego plate and the light for it. Also I wanted to add a bracket for mounting the UHF aerial to which might go on the outside of the jerrycan holder. The mounting pivot is fairly simple using nolathane bushes inside the pipe with crush tubes for the bolts to go through. I will order the nolathane Monday but we looked on their website and know we can get bushes to suit. Then I need to make up some simple pivot mounting brackets to bolt to the frame and body but this wont be done until the tray bed is back on the chassis and we do a test fit. Also I intend to mount a work light on a telescoping and pivoting stand so he can light up behind the vehicle and also inside the roof-top tent. Lastly I am still to decide on the locking mechanism - but I am thinking if using an over-centre latch with a machined delrin holder to support all the weight and reduce vibration. Something lockable anyway.

Well by the time the jerrycan holder was finished it was midday and time for a Millers Chill and a dip.

Thanks again for all your interest and support!!

Cheers and thanks,
Tricky and Plugger

debruiser

23rd January 2017, 04:56 PM

Can I also suggest a locking facility for the jerry. I had one on the back of my D90 and some low life lifted it! So now I have a bike chain through the handle and through the top hoopy bit on the carrier...

Just a suggestion, although after seeing your 'other projects' you've probably already got it sorted.

Archangel007

26th January 2017, 12:22 PM

Hi Debruiser,

Excellent suggestion!! Sorry to hear about the theft - dirtbags!!

Happy Australia day everyone!:spudnikparty:

Cheers,
Tricky

Archangel007

29th January 2017, 10:43 AM

Hi Gang,

Just a quick update...

Only got to spend about one and a half hours on Camel Saturday as I was behind on a clients car due to Australia Day holiday etc. So I just put the finishing touches on the SSWC and made it ready (almost to go to the powdercoaters).

Some good news on Friday - the replacement parts for the steering relay arrived Friday from the UK (thanks Craddocks!) so that can be rebuilt and put back in the Landie and that bit ticked off. Might get onto that next weekend! In the meantime, the SSWC needed finishing....

With the wise words from the sage debruiser ringing in my ears I decided to make some changes to the jerrycan holder to prevent theft (thanks debruiser). To this end, I cut out and welded on a reinforcing plate to the front of the carrier to take a hold-down strap to stop the thing jumping around - maybe a ratchet strap or tie-down strap etc. The slot on the reinforcing plate is wide enough to take a padlock or loop of chain. I also welded on a loop to the rear bar to facilitate the other end of the strap in a permanent arrangement and also to allow for a chain to go through the jerrycan handles and around this loop - hopefully preventing theft. As a double measure I intend to make the catches on the SSWC lockable as well - so no-one can swing it out and cut the chain from the back.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=119087&stc=1&d=1485649115

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=119088&stc=1&d=1485649115

It looks a bit agricultural but once everything is powdercoated gloss black I am hoping it will look just fine.

Here is a couple of pics of the how the pivot points will work as a couple of people have asked me how I did this. I will let the pics speak for themselves - pretty basic really and should easily take the weight of the spare wheel and full jerrycan. It can also be unbolted in minutes if the SSWC is not required by simply undoing and removing the 12mm pivot bolts. (Sorry for the lousy pics as my phone just refused to focus)...

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=119085&stc=1&d=1485649115

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=119086&stc=1&d=1485649115

And finally a shot of the carrier sitting in roughly the position it will be installed. The square corner of the jerrycan holder is left proud as this is where the lockable latching mechanism will be located.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=119089&stc=1&d=1485649115

All that is needed now is to drill the holes for the wheel studs (arrived this week from 4x4 Spares), make up the upper and lower pivot brackets out of 3mm plate (once the tray goes back on the chassis) and finally to mount the lockable latch.

I am thinking of using something like this to take the weight at the latch end and stop any kind of movement:
Dovetail Female | UES International (http://uesint.com/shop/dovetail-female-603-0086/)

Dovetail Male | UES International (http://uesint.com/shop/dovetail-male-603-0087/)

And perhaps something like this as a lockable latch:
Ojop 703L Over Centre Fastener ? Padlockable | UES International (http://uesint.com/shop/ojop-over-centre-fastener-padlockable-703l/)

Corner Fastener With Lock | UES International (http://uesint.com/shop/corner-fastener-with-lock/)

I will know for sure about the latching mechanism when I go to fit it up and understand the configuration the pivot brackets will ultimately take. Well that's about all for this weeks episode.

Cheers and thanks,
Tricky and Plugger

Archangel007

29th January 2017, 10:55 AM

Oops nearly forgot....

Someone asked me for the part number for the Nolathane bushes I am using for the pivots. Here ya go....
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=119090&stc=1&d=1485650929

Part can be found here and ordered through your local auto parts store that stocks Nolathane. I got mine through Autobarn...
Nolathane 43024 Front Shock absorber - lower bushing (http://www.nolathane.com.au/product_detail.php?part_number=43024)

Perfect fit for 25nb light duty pipe I'm using. They have a 12.2mm ID crush tube that is designed for a 12mm fastener - perfect!!

Cheers and thanks,
Tricky and Plugger

86mud

30th January 2017, 10:14 AM

Great rebuild going on here. I need to get stuck back into my S2A.

This is how I did my SSWC on my series 2A.

If you zoom in you can see the over centre latch in the last picture

Archangel007

30th January 2017, 07:25 PM

I really like what you've done there Mud!!

mick88

31st January 2017, 07:55 PM

Andrew,
good job with that Gerry holder.
The straps that hold the Gerry cans on the Perentie would be a good option to hold yours down. They are available from Robco Products at an ok price.

As for thieves pinching either the full Gerries, or just milking the fuel out of them, I am tempted to have one full of diesel on the back of my Perentie, that is just there for the thieves, and throw a hand full of mothballs in it. ;)

Cheers, Mick.

Archangel007

1st February 2017, 07:55 PM

Hi Mick,

Thanks for the lead mate and also the kind words!! Yeah, the tea-leaves sure make life hard for everyone!

Cheers,
Tricky

Archangel007

6th February 2017, 09:10 AM

Hi Guys,

On Saturday I had some time spare to get the steering relay rebuilt. As you may have read all the parts came in last week from the UK - Craddocks did a good job of getting everything to me and it was all packaged very nicely! While rebuilding the steering relay is not a huge job, it does come with its own challenges - mainly getting the spring compressed inside the unit....(we all know how dangerous that could be)!

So, with all the parts now at hand, it was time to get underway.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=119334&stc=1&d=1486335343

First order of business was to put the new seals into the end caps. These seals stop the oil inside escaping past the shaft. However, one of my end caps had taken some blunt force trauma and needed some love:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=119335&stc=1&d=1486335343

So it was out with the die-grinder to just remove that little burr to allow for the seals to go in nice and square and without any damage. I coated the outside of the seals with some Dirko (RTV) to make sure they would be oil-tight and not leak past the seal-cap interface
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=119336&stc=1&d=1486335343

Then it was on with the bottom cap
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=119337&stc=1&d=1486335343

Then once the cap was on, I inverted the relay body so it was right side up. I then proceeded to build the centre shaft with its thrust washer, split bushes, spring washer and spring and put it in the unit. Then it was case of making up some kind of device that would allow me to compress the spring inside the body and get the top split bushes on and inside the unit. This is what I came up with - a piece of 5mm flat bar with a slot cutout to slip past the shaft. On the back is some 30x30 angle to stop the bar flexing. The shaft is spaced underneath with a 25mm long 20mm diameter piece of solid round to extend it high enough out of the body to allow the bushes to go on. This is a shot of the spring fully compressed which allows me to get the top bushing on. Once the flat washer and split bushing is on I clamped it together with a hose clamp
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=119338&stc=1&d=1486335343

Continued...

Archangel007

6th February 2017, 09:38 AM

Continued...

Another view of the spring compression jig:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=119339&stc=1&d=1486337152

With the split bushes held firmly against the shaft the spring compression jig can simply be removed out the back side with some gentle taps with a soft hammer (this was the hairiest part - softly, softly!!). Once the bushes were located inside the relay body far enough so they would not come out the hose clamp was released. Then I simply used the 20T press and a suitable diameter piece of pipe to press the split bushes further down into the relay body. I then (stupidly) put the thrust washer in which didn't allow me to fill up the unit with oil prior to putting the top cap on. So I came up with this novel idea - its just a plastic bit (for want of a better word!) that goes on end of the RTV tubes - it acted as a funnel and made filling the unit mess-free and super easy:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=119340&stc=1&d=1486337152

I then left the unit sit full of oil for about 4 hours - Plugger had AFL sign on and training so we had other stuff to do. When I came back I was relieved to find no leaks out past the bottom seal or the bottom plate (new gasket and the use of some RTV on both sides). So, it was time to button it up with another new gasket and some RTV on the top cap:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=119342&stc=1&d=1486337405

Then I coated the bottom of the relay body where it sits in the crossmember well with anti-seize and installed it in the chassis. On with the bottom locating ring, upper and lower relay arms - remembering to align the witness marks we installed when we disassembled the unit (a must do guys!!) - fit the steering rod balljoint and some touch-up paint. I am glad I have got this done, just one more thing to tick off. The relay resistance to load is said to be between 12-16 lbs and we came in at 14.5 lbs, so that is a good result. Tick!!
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=119343&stc=1&d=1486337405

Cheers and thanks,
Tricky and Plugger

OneOff

6th February 2017, 03:01 PM

67hardtop

6th February 2017, 06:00 PM

I'm a bit confused by this oiling of the steering relay - my relay shaft has a hole through the top with exit holes halfway down the shaft. it which looks like it fits a grease nipple; why can't I just fill it full of grease once it's assembled?
Yeah mines the same as urs OneOff. Ive left the grease nipple in it and oiled it when i overhauled it for my Betsy build. The relay ive got came of a s2 ex military. I dont know if the older s2 military were greased or if it was an army fix.

Tricky, i oiled my relay up the same as you with a silastic nozzle. So much easier. But i overfilled it and on a hot day the oil was forced out past the top seal. It seems to have settled down now. My relay is still very stiff. Maybe i should go the grease again. Hmmm...

Cheers Rod.

JDNSW

6th February 2017, 07:18 PM

I'm a bit confused by this oiling of the steering relay - my relay shaft has a hole through the top with exit holes halfway down the shaft. it which looks like it fits a grease nipple; why can't I just fill it full of grease once it's assembled?

Early relays had the filler setup you describe - this was dropped, I think, during Series 2 production, but of course all Series relays are interchangeable, so heaven knows where yours started life.

But fill it with grease? Definitely not. The problem is that the lubrication is required between the shaft and tufnol bushes, which must be kept soaked in oil. If you fill it with grease, the grease will not soak into the bushes, and will be pushed away from the moving surfaces, and, unlike oil, will not flow back.

The top of the shaft originally had a blank plug, but fitting a grease nipple is perfectly acceptable, as long as you do not fill it with grease. Nothing to stop you filling a grease gun with oil! (Semiliquid grease such as the 'one-shot' specified for later model swivels is acceptable for swivels)

John

John

Archangel007

6th February 2017, 07:20 PM

OneOff

6th February 2017, 08:02 PM

JDNSW

6th February 2017, 08:27 PM

I was hoping you'd come along John. :)

When you say "early"series, are you talking series 1? Mine is a '58 series 2, I was hoping it was the original steering relay. I guess it doesn't matter now as I have TimNZ's outer from his S3 and my shaft from S2. Will there be any compatibility issues do you think?

Anyway, thanks Tricky for letting me borrow your thread, and for your advice.

Peter.

I'm not sure just when the change was made - I am pretty sure the Series 2 I used to own had it, and none of the 2as I've owned have had it, so it is a reasonable guess that it was during Series 2 production. As far as I know, all relays have interchangeable parts.

John

Homestar

7th February 2017, 05:40 AM

Hi Guys,

Not sure about the grease nipple thing but mine definitely is an oil-bath type unit. There are galleries in the top plate which allow the oil to fill the unit - you take out one of the top plate bolts and that's the fill point while a 2nd one is the breather. I think the grease nipple may have been an Army modification. And while the grease wont leak out of a bad seal like oil, it does go hard and tacky after a while.

67 I thought I was a pioneer with the silastic nozzle - obviously not (damnit!!) Mine was really stiff too until it 'broke in' when I was working it back and forth - obviously a film of oil now between the bushes and the shaft. I think its still too heavy though and Plugger will most likely complain about the 'Armstrong Steering'.....

Cheers,
Tricky

What the steering realy feels like moving it back and forth with the arms is very different to how it feels when using the steering wheel to turn it - it needs a decent amount of pre load - have you checked to see if it is in spec?

Series steering when all new is not really that heavy anywhere but the Woolies car park and the like, so I'm sure he'll get used to it.

(Says me that's sticking power steering in my Sons... :angel:)

Archangel007

7th February 2017, 07:22 AM

Hi Homestar,

The Haynes manual says preload must be between 12-16 lbs on the upper arm. Ours came in at 14.5 lbs so it is within spec. Still feels stiff to me though!

I guess we need to wait and see with the steering box overhauled etc....

Cheers,
Tricky

Homestar

7th February 2017, 10:55 AM

Spot on then - I gaurentee it will feel light and smooth once the steering box and steering wheel are installed. :)

The leverage that those 2 items provide is huge.

67hardtop

9th February 2017, 09:48 PM

Hi Tricky n Plugger, i found my pic tonight of the steering relay filling.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2017/02/452.jpg
I thought it was a good idea and a simple way to fill it. I tried using a syringe but it didnt work well.

Cheers Rod

Archangel007

11th February 2017, 05:49 PM

Top stuff Rod, makes life easier eh???

Cheers,
Tricky

P.S. This morning I noticed some oil on the floor under the steering relay and thought the bottom seal was leaking. It turned out to be a case of the oil expanding inside due to the heat (gets over 40 degrees C in the shop sometimes) and it vented out the top. I did fill it to the brim however!!

Cheers,
Tricky

67hardtop

11th February 2017, 08:44 PM

Yep same happened to mine. I put too much in and in the heat it came out over a few days. It hasnt leaked these last few 40 deg+ days so the level must have set itself now. Incidently mine also leaked out the top and not the bottom. I used seals from CBC.

Cheers Rod

Archangel007

12th February 2017, 08:40 AM

Hi Guys,

Updating today as it is way too hot to go down to the shop today and do any work - so I thought I might as well do something useful! Yesterday we managed a few hours in the shed before the Mercury topped 43 degrees and I called a halt to proceedings - way too hot to continue working so we called it quits and jumped into the pool!!

Anyway yesterday I decided to finish the SSWC carrier as there is a bunch of stuff now that is ready to be sent off to the powdercoaters and I wanted to send them all as one batch. So today I decided to drill the holes in the spare wheel mounting plate for the press-in wheel studs. In hindsight it would have been easier to drill the plate before putting it on the frame but at least with it on the frame it could be clamped securely and the mill has such a big bed I knew it could cater for the whole ensemble!!

I programmed into the DRO all the parameters it needed to drill the holes - the centre of the pattern, the PCD (6.5 inches or 165.1mm), the starting angle, the finishing angle, the number of holes - then I let the DRO do its thing. Firstly I went from holes 1 through 5 with a 9mm pilot bit, then I went back through holes 5 through 1 with the 16mm bit. The shank diameter for the press-in studs is 16.5mm with an interference fit of 0.5mm. Here is a shot of the work in progress:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=119533&stc=1&d=1486851648

And this is how it turned out with a wheel superimposed over the top. The DRO says error was within 0.1mm so that was good enough for me:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=119534&stc=1&d=1486851648

And here is a shot of the wheel on the SSWC in its correct position - gives you an idea of what it will look like on the back of the Camel:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=119535&stc=1&d=1486851648

The press-in studs will be done after it comes back from powdercoating. I am also thinking about putting a small steel 'guide-block' on the wheel mounting face so the threads wont be chewed out by sliding the wheel on and off - it will also make it easier to lift on and off as the guide-block will take the weight while the wheel is orientated to the studs.... maybe a job for next week.

While I was drilling Plugger was attempting to disassemble the clutch mechanism and pedal prior to overhauling this. It didn't go well. The adjusting nut on the master cylinder pushrod was rusted, and the other nut just backed right off the thread. All manner of efforts to stop the shaft turning failed so we had to disassemble the whole clutch pedal assembly to be able to grip the shaft with a set of vice-grips and eventually get it out. Needless to say the M/C shaft was knackered but we were looking likely to replace the whole M/C anyway - and at $40 for a complete new one it will be cheap insurance. Anyway, here is the clutch assembly stripped down to its basic components and awaiting overhauling. I will order the new M/C on Monday and get into this next weekend:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=119536&stc=1&d=1486851648

Shed temp was 43 degrees by this time so it was time for a beer and a swim. More next week.

Cheers and thanks,
Tricky and Plugger

JDNSW

12th February 2017, 11:36 AM

Archangel007

12th February 2017, 06:22 PM

Looking good - but I would only have put three studs in to hold the spare - and used one of the additional holes for a peg with a transverse hole for a padlock. If put at the top, this could also be used to keep the weight of the wheel off the studs when putting it on and off.

John

Hi John,

Not a bad idea and not too late to implement that!!
I was going to have a hole through the middle of the mounting block that would take a padlock, that would not allow the wheel to come off the studs. I think I like your way better!! Thanks John!!

Cheers,
Tricky

Archangel007

23rd February 2017, 08:42 AM

Hi Guys,

Didn't do any work per se to the Camel on the weekend but did spend a few hours shuffling bits n pieces around in the shop and a lot of cleaning!.

The redundant AMG front clip that was going to be used in a clients car has now been moved to the back corner of the shop and all the Camel bits are now moved forward so we can access then better. A small win for the Landy!!

Also, I have ordered a full gearbox rebuild kit from All Four x 4 which should be here this week (hopefully) which means we can start the gearbox tear-down and rebuild this weekend (fingers crossed). Once the gearbox is rebuilt we can fit it back up to the motor and install it in the car and test run the rig - a huge milestone there!!

Staying with the gearbox - I have yet to order the O/D gear from Ashcrofts in the UK. While its a great idea it does require a bit of machining of the gearbox casing to get it to fit. Has anyone done this and how easy/hard was it?? While I have the machines at home to do this, I am by no means an expert machinist!

Through the week I had discussions with Henry from the Ho Hars!! What a nice bloke. He has convinced me to repair the bulkhead myself as I was hesitant to do it without a jig - and I didn't want to build a jig for just one bulkhead (now there's a bold statement!!). So will order the new parts for the bulkhead next week - thanks Henry!

Lastly, is anyone else having issues uploading photos to the site - I have tried three times now and I just get an error message!!!

Cheers,
Andrew

The ho har's

23rd February 2017, 10:16 AM

Hi Guys,

Didn't do any work per se to the Camel on the weekend but did spend a few hours shuffling bits n pieces around in the shop and a lot of cleaning!.

The redundant AMG front clip that was going to be used in a clients car has now been moved to the back corner of the shop and all the Camel bits are now moved forward so we can access then better. A small win for the Landy!!

Also, I have ordered a full gearbox rebuild kit from All Four x 4 which should be here this week (hopefully) which means we can start the gearbox tear-down and rebuild this weekend (fingers crossed). Once the gearbox is rebuilt we can fit it back up to the motor and install it in the car and test run the rig - a huge milestone there!!

Staying with the gearbox - I have yet to order the O/D gear from Ashcrofts in the UK. While its a great idea it does require a bit of machining of the gearbox casing to get it to fit. Has anyone done this and how easy/hard was it?? While I have the machines at home to do this, I am by no means an expert machinist!

Through the week I had discussions with Harry from the Ho Hars!! What a nice bloke. He has convinced me to repair the bulkhead myself as I was hesitant to do it without a jig - and I didn't want to build a jig for just one bulkhead (now there's a bold statement!!). So will order the new parts for the bulkhead next week - thanks Harry!

Lastly, is anyone else having issues uploading photos to the site - I have tried three times now and I just get an error message!!!

Cheers,
Andrew

There fixed it for you :)

Mrs hh :angel:

Archangel007

23rd February 2017, 05:43 PM

Apologies Carolyn!!!

The ho har's

23rd February 2017, 08:31 PM

Apologies Caroline!!!

"Thanks" My thanks button doesn't work:(

Mrs hh:angel:

Archangel007

23rd February 2017, 09:19 PM

Pedro what have you done???

Archangel007

24th February 2017, 08:02 AM

Nice Datsun Pedro but since the update I cant post photos up and some of the buttons don't work......

LOL!!
tried to copy a pic,,
This was the result using the "manage attachments"

119765

it shows the pic in "edit" but only the link in the post,, Hmmm

incisor

25th February 2017, 08:27 AM

But work s fine in Tapatalk... Am looking into it

incisor

25th February 2017, 08:35 AM

it now didplays a thumbnail and when you click on it you get the big image...

easy one!

about bloody time... my brain hurts!

Archangel007

25th February 2017, 09:06 PM

Thanks Inc...

Archangel007

26th February 2017, 06:29 PM

Hi Inc,

Tried to update the thread with pics but in the preview there are no thumbnails and no photos.

Any chance of going back to the old format?

Cheers,
Andrew

Archangel007

11th March 2017, 01:31 PM

Hi Gang,

Apologies for not updating recently - just could not seem to get the update working properly - no pics!! And whats an update without any pics!!

I cant seem to get photos uploaded - when I click 'add pic' I can choose a photo or photos and upload it but once its finished the total number of photos uploaded never changes. Therefore there is nothing new to drag n drop for the thread!!

Any ideas??

Cheers,
Tricky

pop058

11th March 2017, 01:56 PM

Archangel007

19th March 2017, 07:58 PM

Hi Guys,

A personal thanks to Inc and Co. for helping with all the issues I've been having posting to the site - I do believe we have it sorted now, so thanks guys!!

Ok, so a few weeks ago a small package arrived that contained the rebuild kit for the gearbox. The kit was supplied by All Fourx4 Spares and its pretty comprehensive - the most comprehensive one I could find on the web anyway. It contains all the seals, bearings and gaskets one might need to overhaul your S2 or S2A gearbox - and it was pretty reasonably priced too.

So, the date came whereby we had to pull the gearbox assembly out of storage and tear it down. Here is a pic of it up on the operating table - its pretty gungy with all the dirt and encrusted filth - clear evidence it had been leaking oil for some time
120707

Minus all the levers, mounts and other extraneous hardware ready to be separated
120706

After a couple of hours we had the three main components all separated from each other. I was expecting to find worn broken teeth, bits of metal in the bottom of the case and wrecked synchros - what I did find was a gearbox in pristine condition and I do mean pristine. Other than leaking seals and gaskets - as evidenced by having a transfer case full of oil and minimal oil in the gearbox - it was in really good nick...
120705

120704

To be continued...

Archangel007

19th March 2017, 08:20 PM

Continued...

So, stripping down the box to its basic elements meant that it was time for a good cleaning of the cases. And here is a shot of me after we went hard at it with the karcher - dirty messy job and it took a ages in the shower to scrub this crud off!!
120718

Once all the external parts had been hit with the Karcher to get the bulk of the crud off, it was time to send the bits to the parts washer for an extensive and detailed clean with Plugger
120719

So at the end of the day we had a pile of internal bits n pieces neatly spread out and in their respective order as they were removed from either the gearbox, transfer case or front housing. We had two casualties that will need to be replaced for certain. One of them was the mainshaft needle roller bearing where it sits inside the input shaft in the main gearbox - as you can see from the photo its toast. Luckily, this one was included in the kit...
120721

And the other was the throwout sleeve that contains a rubber seal that stops oil from coming out past the input shaft and into the bellhousing. This part is not supplied with the kit and will have to be purchased separately. As you can see from the photo the seal is knackered. You can buy the seal separately or you can buy the whole throwout sleeve as a completed assembly ready to install. The issue with just buying the seal is that no one I talked to knows how to get the throwout sleeve apart to be able to replace the rubber seal. Hmmm, looks like a new assembly then!
120722

Well that's it for day 1 (actually it was 2 days truth be told, the cleaning took that long!!!). Parts ordered now and all the major components are in the bath soaking to make the cleaning process easier. More next week.

Cheers and thanks,
Tricky and Plugger

67hardtop

20th March 2017, 07:28 PM

Glad ur back posting again...

Cheers Rod

Archangel007

29th March 2017, 09:47 PM

Thanks Rod, me too!

Rebuilding the S2A gearbox is pretty straight forward. As long as you have good reference manual. In this regard I had a used Haynes manual which in this area (gearbox overhaul) was pretty comprehensive.

Once the gearbox proper was completely stripped and the case cleaned to within an inch of its life, it was time to replace all the bearings and seals. This was simply a case of driving out the old bearings or seals and then driving the new ones in. The 3rd-4th gear synchro's detent springs were in perfect condition but I replaced them anyway. I left the layshaft, input shaft and mainshaft in their sub-components to aid in reinstalling them.

The first issue I had was installing the layshaft into the gearbox casing while the mainshaft was installed. It entailed some jiggling to get it installed and no matter which way I oriented it or how I held my tongue I could just not get the rear roller bearing into its cup deep inside the case. The solution I came up with was to encircle the roller bearing with a thin and long cable tie and then cinch it tight to keep the rollers tight into the cage. I then put a small nick in the cable tie so that when I pulled on the end it would break at a certain spot. The long tail of the cable tie was oriented so that I could grab it with a set of needle-nose pliers. After two attempts (one because I pulled the cable tie too hard and didn't hold the layshaft hard enough and it pulled it out of the bearing cup) it was in. Then holding the layshaft firm, a constant pull (not a jerk) on the cable tie tail broke the tie at the nick and out it came, leaving the bearing seated perfectly in the cup.

Then came the juggling act of installing the input shaft and meshing that with the 1st motion gear. This was further complicated by the fact you have to have the shaft through the bellhousing and the bearings plates for the lower roller and upper roller bearings installed behind the bearings to seat them into the bellhousing. Once again it was all a bit of a juggling act but with a bit of perseverance it was accomplished. Then it was a simple case of tightening the bearing plate nuts in sequence to cinch up the bearing into the bellhousing, while tightening down the bellhousing onto the gearbox case. A few hours later we had success...
121185

After this it was time to put in the selector shafts and forks with their new o-rings, and then the top cover. Then insert the detent ball bearings, new springs and new seals. I then disassembled the main gear lever assembly and cleaned out all the gunk in the housing, lubed and painted everything and reassembled the selector lever with new o-ring at the ball end. The reverse gate and stop springs seem to be OK so they were left as is. I then gave the 1st/2nd gear stop bolt inspection plate a bit of a glam-over with some custom paint, stainless screws and graffiti....
121186

That was it for the day. The main box was all back together, all shafts were rotating freely with little or no endplay or excessive lash, and it selected all gears without any binding or excessive force. So job well done, time for a beer!

Cheers and thanks,
Tricky and Plugger

Archangel007

9th April 2017, 10:48 AM

Day 2 on the gearbox....

This week saw a continuation of the reassembly. On the front of the gearbox encasing the input shaft is the clutch engagement/disengagement assembly comprising of the housing, throwout sleeve, bearing and throwout fork. On close inspection of the throwout sleeve not only was the shaft seal knackered but there was also a hairline crack around the flange. It definitely had to be replaced as a unit and not just the seal. Some more parts were ordered from Rover Parts including a new clutch slave and these showed up last week. Once the new sleeve arrived, it was on with the front assembly and gearshift lever assembly...
121619

The clutch shaft is a two-piece item connected by a sleeve. I did notice on Plugger's beast that this sleeve had taken some extreme abuse and started to split around the bolt hole. A quick back-cut with the grinder to open it up further then a quick hit with the MIG fixed the problem. Then I reamed it out with a 16mm drill just to ensure that there would be no binding on the internal shaft of the front assembly. All good there.
121620

Next was to install the new clutch slave. All the parts were de-rusted with the wire wheel, cleaned and then painted. The slave assembly was put back together and pinned to the inner shaft. A new hose was ordered way back when I ordered all the front wheel bearing stuff but seems to be way shorter than the original hose fitted to the old slave. I dont know what's going on there but I might have to get a custom one made or else move the union further back. I am redoing all the brake and clutch lines anyway so what the heck! I ditched the old rusted imperial bolts in favour of some nice shiny stainless steel domed allen bolts and nylocs!
121621

Plugger has done a great job cleaning up the remaining parts and painting them ready for their turn in the assembly process...
121622

The front drive casing was so soiled even after soaking and scrubbing it still looked brown and dirty... So we decided to give it a coat of bright aluminium...
121623

Some more parts arrived this week to continue the adventure - bulkhead repair parts, some seals missing from the gearbox rebuild kit and a new spring for the yellow lever...
121624

And finally, we have always decided that The Camel was going to get some highway legs - and not wanting to install a Fairey overdrive unit (3 levers will confuse the boy let alone 4!!) - we decided early on that the Ashcroft overdrive high-range gearset was the way to go. We have been in contact with Ashcroft for the past three months waiting for one to become available, but due to the shortage of exchange transfer cases they are becoming in short supply and the queue was long. The answer was simply to bite the bullet and send Camel's transfer case to the UK to get the works done and just foot the extra costs (actually quite minimal versus the core charge of GBP75). So that meant cleaning the transfer case within an inch of its life and sending it off. So it went from this...
121625

To this....
121626
121627

So we wrapped it in bubble-wrap and sent off to the UK. Through Australia Post the cost was $144 registered express delivery which should arrive in the UK in 3-4 days. Not bad I thought. Ashcroft's promised a quick turnaround so now the gearbox rebuild is on hold now until the transfer case comes back with its new highway gearset installed. Lots of other things to get done like the bulkhead now that the repair pieces have arrived. But that's a job for next week! Until then....

Cheers and Thanks,
Tricky and Plugger