2 post hoists - clear floor or not

[steveG]

Finally almost have a shed/carport that's high enough (3.6m wall height) to fit the County in with rooftop tent on (~2.4m).

Looking at 2 post hoists, but seeking some advice from those who've used them on how much of a pain the non clear-floor models are to use.

With a clear floor model - due to their overhead beam I need to go to an extra height hoist to be able to use all of the 3.6m+ height I've got available and and be able to walk under the chassis rails.
Extra height definitely pushes the price up - looking at approx $500-800 extra for the higher models.

The non clear-floor models with the balance cables across the floor are only limited by lift height not by an overhead beam so would seem less restricted, but I'm concerned that the balance cable part across the floor will be a pain - either tripping over it or by being in the way when trying to wheel things underneath.

Anyone had experience with them? Are the clear floor models probably worth the extra in this situation or am I imagining a problem that isn't an issue in practice?

Steve

[bee utey]

Having had a screw post hoist with a bump across the floor for 20 years I can tell you they are a pain if you want to do transmissions. I've finally replaced it with a shiny new Summit clear floor hoist and I'm loving it. Don't stint yourself. After all it's a purchase you don't make every day.

[sheerluck]

The bump is a right royal pain if you are trying to move something around that doesn't move under it's own power as well.

[steveG]

Thanks guys.
Transmissions is definitely one of the things I'll want to use it for, so looks like it will be a clear floor version then.

Any recommendations on one with overall height around 3.8-4.0m mark gladly accepted :)

Steve

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

I have a ram and cable 2 poster and agree, the hump gets in the way sometimes. I use it predominately for exhaust and suspension work, but have had my Rangie on it a few times. Did my transfer case not that long ago, but two of us manhandled it in, the hump would have been in the way with trans jack. (Even though I didn't have one).

[DoubleChevron]

I wouldn't trust any of my shed floors enough for a 2post .... What about a 4post with belly lift ( yeah in my dreams ).

seeya,
shane L.

[justinc]

Clear floor for the win Steve G !☺☺

Jc

[spudboy]

I've got a 2 pole with the cables going across the top. It's good to have a clear floor even when it's not being used as a hoist, just for ease of moving things around the shed.

When we did the pour, we made the concrete 50% thicker in the area of the hoist legs, and put in extra reo-rod.

I was pretty surprised at the minuscule footprint of these things, given how much weight they hold high up in the air, and the levering effect if things are not 'balanced'.

[steveG]

I've got a 2 pole with the cables going across the top. It's good to have a clear floor even when it's not being used as a hoist, just for ease of moving things around the shed.

When we did the pour, we made the concrete 50% thicker in the area of the hoist legs, and put in extra reo-rod.

I was pretty surprised at the minuscule footprint of these things, given how much weight they hold high up in the air, and the levering effect if things are not 'balanced'.

At this stage I've only managed to secure one 4.5m wide bay for my Landy use. The other couple of bays have been allocated to the financial controller and her caravan. Still working on that situation, but its not as bad as it sounds as I have another 6x9 garage for workshop and a 40' container for storage, and I got approval for the extra wall height in this one...

Means that I'll likely have to put up some sort of temporary wall/divider between the hoist and her car - so your point about moving things around when not using the hoist is even more applicable as there won't be any significant area at the sides.
Not having the clear floor would pretty much stop me being able to move an engine on trolley/crane from one end to the other. Particularly something heavy like a 4bd1.

Definitely sold on the clear floor type now.

The concrete aspect seems to vary a bit between manufacturers. Most say min 100mm thick and general guide seems to be no significant cracks or edges within 900mm of the foot, but I've come across a couple that specified 150mm or more minimum.
Have also seen some larger feet - 16mm plate about 700 square - that can be used if you're not 100% confident in the floor with the standard foot.
My concrete isn't done yet so I can make it whatever thickness is required.

Unfortunately I don't have any mates that do concrete work, and my body isn't up to it - so will have to pay a someone to do the lot :(

Steve

[bee utey]

This is the hoist that I bought for $5K:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/443.jpg

Summit ST4000 - Precision Automotive (http://www.precisionautomotive.com.au/model-range/vehicle-car-hoists-powerrex-summit-2-post-4-post-scissor-hoist-wheel-hanger/16-summit/15-summit-st4000)

which specified a 150mm minimum thickness floor of 25MPa concrete, rather than the standard 20MPa domestic stuff. A load spreading kit was available at extra cost for weaker floors but I close to add my own load spreading extension to the side that had only 125mm of concrete under the post. Fortunately I had specified the stronger concrete as I already had a hoist to put up on it. Drilling the 20mm Dynabolt holes took some doing, I can tell you. It's the first time I've had to use pilot drills in concrete. For the first hoist 20 years ago I cheated and drilled the holes while the concrete was still curing, on day 2.

And unlike the old screw post hoist I can open the hoisted vehicle's front doors to a reasonable angle because of the offset post design. :)

[alien]

As you've heard clear floor is the way to go.
Just thinking outside the square as in your OP there was a mention of costs vs hights.
Would it be cost effective to get a non-clear floor model and recess it in the floor?
You could steel plate over the cable area giving you a flat floor and only loose @200mm of lift that with a 4x4 probibly would never get used.
The concreters would have to have a trench for this so it would all be part of doing the costings.

[Homestar]

I wouldn't trust any of my shed floors enough for a 2post .... What about a 4post with belly lift ( yeah in my dreams ).

seeya,
shane L.

Yeah, most domestic garage floors are not up to a 2 poster, but you either need to spread the load on the floor or do what I helped a member here do - dig up a sizeable chunk of the floor and relay it with deeper, stronger concrete. I think we did a 1 metre x 3.5 m strip accross the middle, dug down 300mm and poured the better concrete into it.

More work yes, but not too much - a day for a couple of blokes, then you know your car will never land on your head when you're not expecting it.

[sheerluck]

As you've heard clear floor is the way to go.
Just thinking outside the square as in your OP there was a mention of costs vs hights.
Would it be cost effective to get a non-clear floor model and recess it in the floor?
You could steel plate over the cable area giving you a flat floor and only loose @200mm of lift that with a 4x4 probibly would never get used.
The concreters would have to have a trench for this so it would all be part of doing the costings.

The only problem with having that trench is that it will be a natural spot for all spills to gravitate to (and no matter how careful you are with the drain tubs, there's always a bit more coolant left in the hoses you're taking off, or you aren't quick enough moving the tub after the oil stream goes from being a flood to a trickle).

If the hoist is in regular use, you'd quickly end up with a real ugly mix in there.

[DoubleChevron]

Yeah, most domestic garage floors are not up to a 2 poster, but you either need to spread the load on the floor or do what I helped a member here do - dig up a sizeable chunk of the floor and relay it with deeper, stronger concrete. I think we did a 1 metre x 3.5 m strip accross the middle, dug down 300mm and poured the better concrete into it.

More work yes, but not too much - a day for a couple of blokes, then you know your car will never land on your head when you're not expecting it.

I'm just going to go four post ... if I ever have the opportunity to get a hoist. That way I know it can't fall over (and if my cars aren't running I can still get them on. There too low for the booms of a two post hoist to fit under if they don't run).

seeya,
shaen L.

[Tank]

Finally almost have a shed/carport that's high enough (3.6m wall height) to fit the County in with rooftop tent on (~2.4m).

Looking at 2 post hoists, but seeking some advice from those who've used them on how much of a pain the non clear-floor models are to use.

With a clear floor model - due to their overhead beam I need to go to an extra height hoist to be able to use all of the 3.6m+ height I've got available and and be able to walk under the chassis rails.
Extra height definitely pushes the price up - looking at approx $500-800 extra for the higher models.

The non clear-floor models with the balance cables across the floor are only limited by lift height not by an overhead beam so would seem less restricted, but I'm concerned that the balance cable part across the floor will be a pain - either tripping over it or by being in the way when trying to wheel things underneath.

Anyone had experience with them? Are the clear floor models probably worth the extra in this situation or am I imagining a problem that isn't an issue in practice?

Steve
Steve my son and I went for the clear floor hoist, for all of the obvious reasons.
We originally ordered the Molnar (Australian Made) 4.5 Tonne High and Wide as we do some work on small trucks.
It wasn't until after we ordered this model that we were told it would be up to six weeks waiting time as they had to be built to order, not an item they keep in stock.
So we opted for the universal 4.5 tonne model which was delivered in a few days, about $1500 cheaper at $6545.00 incl. GST.
We went Molnar for their quality work and Australian made, could have got a Chinese model same dimensions for around $2500.00 to $4500.00, suppose it's like buying a Crash Helmet, how much is your head worth.
The Molnar is extremely heavy duty compared to the Chinese ones we looked at, Parts and Warranty is almost next door and we have to trust the hoist while working underneath. I have worked with all types of hoists from the old single centre hydraulic ram, to 4 posters, to pits with sliding trolleys on rails and clear floor hoists are great, Regards Frank.

[Tank]

The only problem with having that trench is that it will be a natural spot for all spills to gravitate to (and no matter how careful you are with the drain tubs, there's always a bit more coolant left in the hoses you're taking off, or you aren't quick enough moving the tub after the oil stream goes from being a flood to a trickle).

If the hoist is in regular use, you'd quickly end up with a real ugly mix in there.
The equaliser cables would have to be longer if you buried them in the floor, in our first workshop we had to have the posts set an inch wider to avoid heavy duty rio in the floor.
It was a tight fit and it was hard to get the cables over the bottom pulleys.
Burying them would be the equivalent of moving the posts at least 2" further apart and as the cable supplied is only long enough to do a standard install, BTW we are still waiting for the Molnar approved installer to show up 6 months later, seems he's overseas while people are waiting for him to install.
It is a simple job the only real technical part is adjusting the cables so the automatic locking lugs engage at the exact time on each side, POP, Regards Frank.

[Tank]

This is the hoist that I bought for $5K:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/443.jpg

Summit ST4000 - Precision Automotive (http://www.precisionautomotive.com.au/model-range/vehicle-car-hoists-powerrex-summit-2-post-4-post-scissor-hoist-wheel-hanger/16-summit/15-summit-st4000)

which specified a 150mm minimum thickness floor of 25MPa concrete, rather than the standard 20MPa domestic stuff. A load spreading kit was available at extra cost for weaker floors but I close to add my own load spreading extension to the side that had only 125mm of concrete under the post. Fortunately I had specified the stronger concrete as I already had a hoist to put up on it. Drilling the 20mm Dynabolt holes took some doing, I can tell you. It's the first time I've had to use pilot drills in concrete. For the first hoist 20 years ago I cheated and drilled the holes while the concrete was still curing, on day 2.

And unlike the old screw post hoist I can open the hoisted vehicle's front doors to a reasonable angle because of the offset post design. :)
Not knocking your choice of hoist, but the pics shown in your post seem to show very small post base plates, take a look at a Molnar post base plate, they look to be 3 times the area, at least, one of the reasons we purchased Molnar, Regards Frank.

Molnar Pics.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/444.jpg

[ian4002000]

I went for an Alemlube with hump due to my concrete not being thick enough for any other two post. The Alumlube has extra stabiliser braces on the floor to reduce the chance of a post moving.
Inhind site a four post would have been better if you have 100mm concrete, and you can store your extra landys on the hoist permanently if required.


Ian
Bittern

[steveG]

As you've heard clear floor is the way to go.
Just thinking outside the square as in your OP there was a mention of costs vs hights.
Would it be cost effective to get a non-clear floor model and recess it in the floor?
You could steel plate over the cable area giving you a flat floor and only loose @200mm of lift that with a 4x4 probibly would never get used.
The concreters would have to have a trench for this so it would all be part of doing the costings.

Good thought Kyle, but I think by the time the concretor charged a bit more for the hassle of creating the recess to sink it into, and I purchased a bit of plate cut to the right dimensions the cost would be pretty much the same anyway.
Sheerluck's point about it becoming a cess pit is valid too - and it would definitely be very hard to clean out.

At this point one brand I'm definitely considering is Tufflift. I'm sure the hoists are manufactured overseas, but the company is only about 15mins from where I work so convenient to go and check them out.
Pricing is a step up from some of the eBay ones, but its a local, real company from a warranty/support perspective. I also know Vern has one that he's pretty happy with.

Steve

[Vern]

Steve I have a tufflift, can't fault it, gets used heaps. I have the highest clear floor they make. I can get any measurements you need. Think model number pk3.7 or something like that. And for $500 they delivered and installed it. Couldn't argue with that

[aussearcher]

Steve,
I have a old two post screw hoist with the cross piece across the floor. Bought it second hand for next to nothing and it has given sterling service for over 20 years. I have the luxury of a large shed so the cross piece doesn't usually cause much problems with 4WDs - I can wheel heavy components in under from either end, and out around the post on either side. Where it is a pain is if you have a lowered car (in my case, a racing MGA), which is difficult to get over the cross piece without grounding the front valence, and the MG has to be jacked up to get the arms under, as the minimum height of these is set by the cross piece. I suspect that with models that have the cross bar at the top the arm minimum height from the floor would be significantly lower - but not an issue for a County!


One thing to check though is height. You mention that your walls are 3.6m and I'll presume you have a pitched roof. I have a friend's Series 3 with a cab up in the air on my hoist at the moment and the top of the cab roof is 3.5m above floor level - so the cross bar would have to be higher than this. I can walk under the S3. If you County is 2.4m with the roof tent on (about the same as my D1 with a rack on) make sure that whatever lift you buy is going to allow you to work under the car comfortably - which means being able to stand normally. The other consideration I'll mention irrespective of the type of lift you buy is ease of access. Ideally the centre line of the hoist should be on the centre line of the shed door. Landies don't have great turning circles and having to take 10 bites to get lined up properly is a pain!


No matter what you get though you won't regret it - I cannot imagine not having a hoist!

[steveG]

Dragging this up again as I'm currently getting the concrete done.
Just realised that I need to avoid having any saw cut in the slab through the area the hoist will be mounted in.
But having never used one I'm not sure exactly where it will be mounted...
I'm reasonably tight for space lengthwise in the bay (only 6m) , so depending on where it needs to sit relative to the vehicle might mean its not central for/aft in the bay.

Where does a defender sit relative to a 2-post hoist? Is it the vehicle CofG? If so, roughly where is that on a 110 or 130 (loaded/unloaded)?
Does it depend on the manufacturer or arm design at all?

Steve

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

What I did with my Rangie is use a trolley jack under the chassis rail on the side. Use the centre point between the axles first and jack it up, whichever end comes up first, move the jack a bit the other way. When you find the point at which the side comes up evenly, that is your centre point for weight distribution. Line your post up with that and as long as your lifting contact points on the car are the same distance from the centre point, the weight will be evenly distributed between the front and rear.

[Vern]

Steve, the arms on my hoist are different lengths, so have to be the correct way around if the car is to go on forwards or backwards. Hope that helps:)

[Defender boy]

Hi Steve.
My hoist at work is a Tekalamit and vehicles always sit way back on it due to its design with unequal arms. However whenever I put my 130 on a equal length arm hoist, the post of the hoist is approximately in line with the front door handle. Hope this is of some use.

Sent from my SM-G900I using AULRO mobile app

[Not_An_Abba_Fan]

As above, if your hoist has unequal arm lengths, the short arms go to the front of the vehicle and the vehicle sits further back on the hoist. My method of finding the centre point of the car works when the hoist has equal arm lengths as mine does.