Defender Minimalism

[MrLandy]

As the type of traveller who prefers to head bush with just the bare basics, one aspect of the Land Rover Defender which has most attracted me over the years is the relative minimalism of the design. Yet I don't believe this is given enough credence anymore in a world obsessed with complexity, material consumption and luxuriant excess.

As most of us here know, the out of the box capability, frugality and relative simplicity of Defender is something to be cherished that may never be repeated in the world of automotive design.

Minimalism as modus operandi when packing, travelling, going bush is an art that I've learnt much about over decades of living, working, travelling in remote regions across Australia. It is also much easier on the vehicle, better for the environment and easier on the wallet.

The lack of necessity for modifications sets the Defender apart in my book and far outweighs the ease of modification that most seem to enjoy so much. This is not to say that I don't appreciate a well equipped Defender. It's just that to me a well equipped Defender might simply mean a full tank of fuel, a swag, some water, some good food.

I'm intrigued to know how many Defender owners share a similar perspective?

[Zimblewinder]

to be honest, the 130 is "making do" until my kids are old enough to get a pack on; and then some cross country skis in winter to really get back into it.
I must admit the extra load capacity is stretching what my wife thinks is necessary. The best camping is when you don't take other "distractions" and most times the getting by style innovation is great fun.

[Ashleylipus]

I agree with you entirely mr landy. It's something that i am slowly catching onto since ive bought my perentie

[Dop]

As the type of traveller who prefers to head bush with just the bare basics, one aspect of the Land Rover Defender which has most attracted me over the years is the relative minimalism of the design. Yet I don't believe this is given enough credence anymore in a world obsessed with complexity, material consumption and luxuriant excess.

As most of us here know, the out of the box capability, frugality and relative simplicity of Defender is something to be cherished that may never be repeated in the world of automotive design.

Minimalism as modus operandi when packing, travelling, going bush is an art that I've learnt much about over decades of living, working, travelling in remote regions across Australia. It is also much easier on the vehicle, better for the environment and easier on the wallet.

The lack of necessity for modifications sets the Defender apart in my book and far outweighs the ease of modification that most seem to enjoy so much. This is not to say that I don't appreciate a well equipped Defender. It's just that to me a well equipped Defender might simply mean a full tank of fuel, a swag, some water, some good food.

I'm intrigued to know how many Defender owners share a similar perspective?


I am with you, I did quiet a lot of camping through the 80s, unfortunately I have not really been under the stars since then. Not blaming the girl I am with now and next month it will be 13 years together, but she has hated the thought. I have now bought a 89 Perentie FFR, and she is now keen! I do not want nor need the fancy fit out, basics that is what I want. I am sure there will be some concessions made to some luxuries, but I am hoping that she will grow to love the idea (sorry the reality) of pulling up, put a kettle on the little gas burner and enjoy what that has to offer. Time will tell.

[weeds]

Each trip is different.....we have hiking equipment though to camper trailer......

A stock defer is a good base although I do plan on modding it a bit.......considering I have to get it to Iceland back and live out of it for 12 months.

[MrLandy]

...I must admit I'm also fascinated by where to draw the minimalism line.

I'd love a Perentie and have been watching auctions for many years... but other priorities have prevented my buying one.

I also like the aircon/heating in my 2014 Defender. Is aircon minimal enough? Is a 2014 Defender minimal enough ...hmm I'm open minded about this and thinking it through.

I admire anyone who drives a Perentie for it's minimalist character

[MrLandy]

Each trip is different.....we have hiking equipment though to camper trailer......

A stock defer is a good base although I do plan on modding it a bit.......considering I have to get it to Iceland back and live out of it for 12 months.

Intriguing weeds! What do you think would be the minimum mods you could do for Iceland? Fantastic plan by the way...

[justinc]

I am very reluctant to drag my 85 county kicking and screaming into the 21st century. I have another vehicle for the comfort and luxury required for long distance touring/ towing. The 110 holds a very special place as it is a totally simple and utilitarian vehicle. The only circuit board in it is possibly the trailer brake controller and being an Isuzu 4bd1 it has been converted to a pull stop cable so basically as long as i can roll start and i don't drive in the dark i don't need any kind of battery or electrical system at all... just the ticket for remote travel. Just the better half and an oztent and some camping gear and we're away☺☺☺

Jc

[Ashleylipus]

I am very reluctant to drag my 85 county kicking and screaming into the 21st century. I have another vehicle for the comfort and luxury required for long distance touring/ towing. The 110 holds a very special place as it is a totally simple and utilitarian vehicle. The only circuit board in it is possibly the trailer brake controller and being an Isuzu 4bd1 it has been converted to a pull stop cable so basically as long as i can roll start and i don't drive in the dark i don't need any kind of battery or electrical system at all... just the ticket for remote travel. Just the better half and an oztent and some camping gear and we're away☺☺☺



Jc



I'm interested in this pullstop cable idea. Can you give me some more info on how you did it?

[justinc]

Strictly not really ' legal' however its simplicity is appealing to me. Just remove the stop start cable (from the electric motor) at the injector pump, and buy a tractor pull stop cable from any agricultural equipment store. I used a Kubota item from memory. It is red and obvious☺

Jc

[Barefoot Dave]

Ashley, locate the EDIC (electric diesel injection control) motor blue bag between the brake booster and the engine.
Coming out of the bottom of the bag is a cable, going to the injector pump. It is attached to the fuel supply switch. When you turn ignition on or off, you will see it actuate. Attach cable to this switch and run out into the cabin.
Note that your Perentie legally requires the EDIC to be fitted and functional. Only use the manual override in case of malfunction or EMP event ;)

[MrLandy]

Strictly not really ' legal' however its simplicity is appealing to me. Just remove the stop start cable (from the electric motor) at the injector pump, and buy a tractor pull stop cable from any agricultural equipment store. I used a Kubota item from memory. It is red and obvious☺

Jc

Elegant simplicity JC. I like it. ...Same potentially with a 300tdi?

[MrLandy]

. Just the better half and an oztent and some camping gear and we're away☺☺☺
Jc

...ah yes, but how much camping gear? ...anything you 'think you might need'? :p

[weeds]

Intriguing weeds! What do you think would be the minimum mods you could do for Iceland? Fantastic plan by the way...



Minimum? I could jump in the way it is now, stock as a rock from factory.......it doesn't even have a radio or air-con.

[JoeFriend]

The whole minimalist thing can be taken 2 ways I guess.

I know I prefer to have the things that will.make thing easier while I am out for a week (fridge, chainsaw, campngrill, sleeping mat etc) I could go out without them and tough it out (I slept on the ground under the stars for a week straight while racing across the desert of SA in an adventure race but that's a whole other story).

My idea of this minimalist is make your truck have everything you need, but when anyone looks in there you could be just popping down to the shops to grab some milk. Therein lies the challenge for me, I am usually stumped at the double self inflatable sleeping mat - I tried an air bed but it was the pits.

[MrLandy]

The whole minimalist thing can be taken 2 ways I guess.

I know I prefer to have the things that will.make thing easier while I am out for a week (fridge, chainsaw, campngrill, sleeping mat etc) I could go out without them and tough it out (I slept on the ground under the stars for a week straight while racing across the desert of SA in an adventure race but that's a whole other story).

My idea of this minimalist is make your truck have everything you need, but when anyone looks in there you could be just popping down to the shops to grab some milk. Therein lies the challenge for me, I am usually stumped at the double self inflatable sleeping mat - I tried an air bed but it was the pits.

I hear you. SWAG. SWAG. SWAG. Fridge maybe (it's winter). Matches yes. Chainsaw no. Shiraz yes. Tarp yes. Eggs, bacon, frypan yes. Spare axles, fuel on your roof, rattle gun and compressor no.

[JoeFriend]

I hear you. SWAG. SWAG. SWAG. Fridge maybe (it's winter). Matches yes. Chainsaw no. Shiraz yes. Tarp yes. Eggs, bacon, frypan yes. Spare axles, fuel on your roof, rattle gun and compressor no.
Haha, pack it all provided no one can see it I say - doesn't mean you need to use it. I can pack all of that plus my gear to ride my mountain bike and clothes for 2 weeks and all people will see is my mattress, which is pretty much the same as a swag.

[Beery]

I reckon the Bush Tucker Man always had it about right. About the fanciest thing he had was his engel fridge sitting up high and dry.
Atleast thats what we saw infront of the camera.

[MrLandy]

Haha, pack it all provided no one can see it I say - doesn't mean you need to use it. I can pack all of that plus my gear to ride my mountain bike and clothes for 2 weeks and all people will see is my mattress, which is pretty much the same as a swag.

Sounds perfect 👍

[MrLandy]

I reckon the Bush Tucker Man always had it about right. About the fanciest thing he had was his engel fridge sitting up high and dry.
Atleast thats what we saw infront of the camera.

Yes Les had it down. Good example.

[wpalmo]

Yes Les had it down. Good example.

KISS - keep it simple stupid. One of the best pieces of advice Les taught me as a 10 year old while watching Les on his travels across the country in his Perentie. I still go back and watch episodes on YouTube. Classic Aussie film making and sowed the Landrover seed and sense of adventure into me at an early age. The Leyland Brothers also have a lot to answer for too!

Finally got a Perentie last year after owning a Series III Stage One for 15 years. Have to say they are awesome! If you use them for what they are intended for then you won't be disappointed. They are extremely functional vehicles and while they won't appeal to everyone they really do express and encourage a minimal approach to adventure travelling and 'keeping it simple'.

Regards Warrick.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/457.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/wufNjo)Goldfields July 2015 Emu Camp (https://flic.kr/p/wufNjo)

[ozscott]

Stretchers, instant up tent, fridge, good hot LPG powered cooker, led lights aplenty, wolf pack storage boxes and at times and space permitting if for more than a couple of days the Coleman Hot Water on Demand, and ensure tent, spare battery, fishing gear. Take as much as makes your trip personally enjoyable. If roughing it on the ground takes your fancy all good, but if you want all the gear go for it because unlike a Jeep a Land Rover can take all the gear safely and legally and travel well on and off road... Cheers

[strangy]

I can do minimalist. I've slept in a cargo net reconfigured as hammock.... but I'm not doing it voluntarily.
I love the bush and so does Mrs Strangy, we are not 20yr old lithe creatures anymore, so swag is a bedding minimum.
Our "in progress" camper back is minimalist for extended touring.
A 2 burner portable stove,engel, battery and solar panel, water, bed is up top under a tilt roof.
Some think that's too much, but really it's just the basics in a big ally box to protect and keep from the weather.
I like Mrs to be comfy and she really isn't a high maintenance girl.
We still have swags for those glorious desert desert nights.

[MrLandy]

Stretchers, instant up tent, fridge, good hot LPG powered cooker, led lights aplenty, wolf pack storage boxes and at times and space permitting if for more than a couple of days the Coleman Hot Water on Demand, and ensure tent, spare battery, fishing gear. Take as much as makes your trip personally enjoyable. If roughing it on the ground takes your fancy all good, but if you want all the gear go for it because unlike a Jeep a Land Rover can take all the gear safely and legally and travel well on and off road... Cheers

...well that's part of the question, between taking the minimum, or loading your vehicle to the gunnels, because you can. For me keeping gear to a minimum isn't about doing it rough, it's about quality over quantity. Quality of experience to me is keeping things very simple. I must admit that taking a hot water on demand unit with me would not be minimalism.

The other big factor in terms of vehicle loading is that the 'taking it because you can fit it in' approach is usually bad for the vehicle too. More weight = more wear and tear on tyres, bushes, brakes, etc and = higher fuel consumption.

[ozscott]

No I only take the hot water system when going for long camps especially with my wife and kids. Quality gear makes a difference. For example alloy stretchers over steel. But time of set up is important to me so I use a Coleman Instant up Gold Edition when my wife and daughter are not with us and it's just me and my 2 boys...very quick set up,for a tent that can hold 3 Stretchers in a 6v style. Cheers

[spudboy]

The older we get the less minimalist we get (in our case anyway).

We went away a month or so ago with just:

A 2 man tent
thermal mattresses + sleeping bags
Folding table and 2 chairs
Food & wine
The dog

just like we used to when we were 30 years younger.

Gawd it was a shock - I forgot how 'swishy' sleeping bags on mattresses are, every time you move. And how thin they are. And how small a 2 man tent is. Cooking over an open fire is always the best though.

Still had a great trip, but this is our minimum minimalist specification these days!:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/12/617.jpg

[MrLandy]

The older we get the less minimalist we get (in our case anyway).

We went away a month or so ago with just:

A 2 man tent
thermal mattresses + sleeping bags
Folding table and 2 chairs
Food & wine
The dog

just like we used to when we were 30 years younger.

Gawd it was a shock - I forgot how 'swishy' sleeping bags on mattresses are, every time you move. And how thin they are. And how small a 2 man tent is. Cooking over an open fire is always the best though.

Still had a great trip, but this is our minimum minimalist specification these days!:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/12/617.jpg

😊 Ha ha! Nice. We do indeed get softer as we get older 😳. I'm enjoying the diversity of what minimalism means for different people!

[XSiV]

I used to be able to fit all I needed on the back of a Honda NX-650 and go touring for weeks on end. Since wife and kids came along it is now more and more difficult to fit everything into the 3.6 cubic m available on the back of the 130. I'm a minimalist but try convincing the wife and kids.

Though I am currently doing a redesign of the internals and hope to make a place for everything so I plan to only make a place for the necessities. Though in saying that it's always nice having the convenience of a fridge and gas cooker and cooking gear easily accessible.

[ozscott]

I also do camp chairs and table etc. This isn't fully laden and the big tent and chairs are on the roof..

[karlz]

The older we get the less minimalist we get


Spot on.

I remember riding my motorbike to Europe and then to South Africa (that was > 20 years ago) I travelled with 3 pairs of undies, 2 T-shirts and 2 pair of socks. The 3rd undie was necessary.

Now, I can take heaps of undies.

btw, whats the minimalist amount of undies per week?

[ozscott]

I think it is possible to get a bit caught up. Who cares. Just build it a bit heavier in the springs and shocks load it up and go for it! I'm at GVM most times I go camping. I usually take 2 kayaks as well. Haha. Then there is the van or trailer on the back for some events. At times the boat gets used at the camping venue. It simply has to be what suits. And yes anyone over 40 or taking kids is going to be generally a bit less concerned with minimal gear and more concerned with having what makes a comfortable and memorable experience. Cheers

[DiscoMick]

I'm keeping our Defender quite minimal - just minor improvements.
We have a camper trailer, which has the basics, but we've also swagged in the desert.
I do think some people want to take too many home comforts outback, but at least they are getting out of the city. Each to his own.


Sent from my SM-G900I using AULRO mobile app

[weeds]

Spot on.



btw, whats the minimalist amount of undies per week?


Zero......considering I don't own any.

[Baytown]

I've spent my professional military career doing it hard for 27 years.
I also instructed at the Combat Survival school in Townsville. As such, I know how easily things can go pear shaped and couldnt forgive myself if I wasn't prepared for most reasonable issues in the bush. I have a well sorted and equipped 2.2 Puma 110, and would not head bush to remote locations without my winch, recovery gear, clean air intake, extra lights etc.
I do however subscribe to minimalist camping equipment, I.e, swag, Jet boil, dehydrated or pre prepared meals, billy, small chair axe, and that's about it.
I don't get off on having the excessive cooking gear, stupidly complicated chairs, sinks, etc etc that are so available now. That being said, it's just me and my Shar pei dog Rufus and parrot Rajy. I don't have kids to keep entertained or an off sider to consider.
I have my off road caravan when I want to do it in style; so I suppose it's the best of both worlds.

Ken

[roverrescue]

Swings and roundabouts I reckon
I'm happy to glamp it with everything including the kitchen sink...

But a favourite is the 30L day pack containing the hammock a jumper some noodles and a lighter the life straw water bottle and most important the Barra rod and a bunch of lures.... Three or four night walk along a cape York river ... Eat what you catch

Simplicity

Oh but the fender has the Engel with coldies for when you get back!!!!

Steve

[Baytown]

Sounds perfect!
Glamping😊

[MrLandy]

Great discussion! ...Minimalism isn't a criticism of maximalism in this context and not intended as a challenge. Defender minimalism is simply an approach, a preference, which to me fits with the core characteristics of Defender; A vehicle deliberately designed without all the bells and whistles. ...I must admit though, it is very funny to consider Glamping and / or maxxing out the GVM of the vehicle, in the context of a discussion about minimalism. 🙃 Nice try!

[strangy]

Swings and roundabouts I reckon
............. most important the Barra rod and a bunch of lures.... Three or four night walk along a cape York river ... Eat what you catch

Simplicity

Oh but the fender has the Engel with coldies for when you get back!!!!

Steve

Essentials without question.:D

[justinc]

Golden Conure Ken?

"Beautiful plumage"...

Jc 😅

(Thats a monty python parrot sketch reference. ..😀)

[Baytown]

Hi JC.
Yep, Sun Conure.
Rajy. He travels everywhere with me!
Ken
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/[/URL][/IMG]

[strangy]

Hi JC.
Yep, Sun Conure.
Rajy. He travels everywhere with me!
Ken
http://i1037.photobucket.com/albums/a452/47Indian/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-01/3618855D-E40A-4915-869B-777D46884D0C.jpg (http://s1037.photobucket.com/user/47Indian/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2016-01/3618855D-E40A-4915-869B-777D46884D0C.jpg.html)
ha fresh out of the bath. We babysit my sons regularly, awsome personality and great companions.

[DiscoMick]

I've been thinking about buying one of these camping hammocks, but I haven't priced them yet. Could have the advantages of being off the ground, but with weather protection. Minimalism in a bag. What do you think?


Hennessy Hammocks Online - Hammock Camping Australia (http://hammockcamping.com.au/)

[nate_110]

The hammock looks great, being off the ground in the wet would be a big advantage. Wouldn't be very useful on the beach or anywhere lacking trees.

The minimalist approach definitely makes sense. Less weight means better performance and economy is a benefit straight up. I guess you need the basics - food, cooking utensils, shelter/sleeping, recovery gear and means to carry it all safely.

[weeds]

I've been thinking about buying one of these camping hammocks, but I haven't priced them yet. Could have the advantages of being off the ground, but with weather protection. Minimalism in a bag. What do you think?


Hennessy Hammocks Online - Hammock Camping Australia (http://hammockcamping.com.au/)



Ranga is your man

[squizzyhunter]

I've been thinking about buying one of these camping hammocks, but I haven't priced them yet. Could have the advantages of being off the ground, but with weather protection. Minimalism in a bag. What do you think?


Hennessy Hammocks Online - Hammock Camping Australia (http://hammockcamping.com.au/)

They are great! Great in the wet and great for hilly terrain or places with unlevel or boggy ground. If for some reason you are hiking to big red with little in the way of strong trees they can be set up like a normal ultralight hiker with the tarp pegged between sticks and your still better off as you have the mesh inner to keep the midgies away. It does drop weight as you don't needed a thermarest or tent but you do need an isilator slung underneath as otherwise a cold wind will chill your back (as no sleeping bags will loft where your laying on them = may as well have a sheet under you). So ups and downs to both set ups I've been using a tent again because my girlfriend loves to hike too do the hammocks aren't much chop then.
I'm a big fan of minimalism so tend to like having over engineered basic equipment. But we are away for 12 months in the 110 and we have way too much crap ATM. As stated by others minimalism is very subjective. A few years back minimalism to me a Hennesy hammock, a bic lighter, msr stove, sawyer filter and if you could drive there it wasn't camping yet there would be folks who would scoff at taking a hammock and stove (there was a bloke in BC Canada that we knew that would regularly hike this week long pass down the west coast from near Bella coola that nobody else knew about and people didn't believe him until he took some of my mates along. They were early 20s with "minimalist" set ups and he was around 50 and left them for dead bearfoot and only took a huge block of hard cheese, for the snow sections he would wrap his feet.... Yet I'm sure there are Cilcotan Indians that scoff at him for taking a block of cheese) so subjective yes. These days I have a roof top top tent on a no.5 and cart the fridge everywhere which a few years back I would have seen as glamping.

[DiscoMick]

They do look good for a single, but probably not for a couple.


Re. food I know some former rebel soldiers whose idea of bush living was a bag of rice in a pot with some water and seasoned with whatever they could find or kill. That's minimalism. Of course, they used to knock off village chooks as well.

[MrLandy]

I've been thinking about buying one of these camping hammocks, but I haven't priced them yet. Could have the advantages of being off the ground, but with weather protection. Minimalism in a bag. What do you think?


Hennessy Hammocks Online - Hammock Camping Australia (http://hammockcamping.com.au/)

Hey Mick, they certainly are minimal, but I reckon the novelty would wear off in terms comfort. They'd be great for temporary shelter while bushwalking up a mountain. But I wouldn't choose for Defender travel.

I'm a firm bed person and I'd hate to sleep with my back curved like that. While they take up more space, I reckon a swag with a good dual density foam mattress and a mozzie tent would be better / more versatile. Also more hard wearing. When I pack my Defender there is always easily enough room for at least two or three swags inside at the back and nothing on the roof. But no kids, so swags might go on roof if I had kids.

[Baytown]

I've used parachute as a hammock during survival training. I will never sleep in one again, it was just so uncomfortable. Dedicated hammocks may be ok, but they just don't do it for me. Must be the bent back they entail. But, if you find it comfortable, off the ground is good!

[Andy130]

Ive got a Henessy. Downside is that your sleeping bag compresses under you, so in the cold they are bloody freezing without an underblanket- particulary if a breeze is blowing.

Also made the mistake once of falling asleep with a water bottle at my head once- that ended up under my shoulder blades - woke up in absolute agony and ruined a bow hunting trip as a result.

[roverrescue]

An asymmetric hammock is a very different beast to a string hammock you fell asleep at the beach in or a munted parachute?

Most comfortable camping setup I've ever experienced

Yes a sleeping bag is no good in the cold but the plus side is a down under quilt is 1/3 the size and weight of a sleeping bag and then all you need is a light microfibre blanket....

Light weight super compact can sleep in crocodile country feeling safe ish - certainly safe from other ground critters

For minimilistic camping until you try an asymmetric hammock you are in the dark!

S

[ozscott]

Smaller crocodiles can climb I see... Arghhh

[Trout]

As I got older my camping transport options changed from foot/bike/canoe as a teenager to increasingly larger vehicles as I got older. This more than anything dictated what gear I took.

Yes the defender is simple but that huge shed on wheels can lug an awful lot of gear without breaking a sweat. So ironically getting a defender means my camping gear list keeps getting longer. I still like to travel light when the trip demands that approach but what's the point of going super light and ultra minimalist if you have a defender. An awning, a chair , a fridge full of food and beer, a swag, a Coleman petrol stove and light and a box of tools and spares along with some toys to occupy your time sounds like the perfect minimalist fender setup to me. I will save my gram counting and agonising over taking the extra Tshirt for my bushwalking and cycling trips.

[DiscoMick]

An asymmetric hammock is a very different beast to a string hammock you fell asleep at the beach in or a munted parachute?

Most comfortable camping setup I've ever experienced

Yes a sleeping bag is no good in the cold but the plus side is a down under quilt is 1/3 the size and weight of a sleeping bag and then all you need is a light microfibre blanket....

Light weight super compact can sleep in crocodile country feeling safe ish - certainly safe from other ground critters

For minimilistic camping until you try an asymmetric hammock you are in the dark!

S
You mean like the one in this link below? You lie diagonally across the hammock instead of along it.
Looks pretty comfortable. Could you string it between vehicles?


https://treegear.com.au/products/hennessey-hammock-expedition-asym-zip


Interesting discussion here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Hammocks/comments/ffwe9/asymmetric_vs_symmetric_hammocks/


This is a comparison of hammock types and ground camping:
http://andrewskurka.com/2012/hammocks-types-ground-system-comparison/


This asym Hammond hammock looks good:
http://hennessyhammock.com/products/explorer-ultralite-asym-classic


I think I feel a Christmas present coming on. It could live in the back of the Defender.

[roverrescue]

That's the ones DiscoMick
You can string em between anything! A tree and the bull bar is good for a roadside stop.
If you get a Hennesy or other lightweight get a pair of snake skins for them, perhaps a little more bulky when packed but setup and pack down is stupidly quick

I would also look at an under quilt - even on Cape York in winter I run one - as you are exposed to the air - I went with this one Incubator 20 - Hammock Gear (http://www.hammockgear.com/incubator-20/)
bit exe but bloody awesome and at under 600gm it is way more compact than a sleeping bag. In the morning Im toasty and warm as opposed to using a sleeping bag where you have a cold back.

So with a lightweight hammock and above under quilt you have full sleep kit for 1.5kg. All fits easily in a 30L day pack plus jumper plus cooker - I end up carrying as much barra gear as camping gear on a 3 day walk!

Hard to beat compared to say a tent/sleep mat and sleep bag.... end up needing a full pack.

S

[spie]

This may well be a stupid question but hardly the first [or last] from me, how do hammocks go for sleeping on your side, is it a non issue or are they for 'back sleepers' only???

[roverrescue]

Back or side works well, belly sleepers might struggle.
the thing about asymmetrics is you don't sag like a beach hammock
I find side sleeping quite comfortable

I think the only two hesitations before trying would be claustrophobia or sleeping as a couple! Would need to be pretty athletic to couple up in a hammock!

Another very nice hammock feature is when camping / hiking lightweight you don't need to clear the ground and can string up bed over rocks/ water/ bull ants/ a taipan pit!
With snake skins they become the ultimate instant bed

s

[MrLandy]

Don't get me wrong, I'm liking the minimal nature of the tech hammock, but what's to stop you shifting in your sleep and waking up like a banana?

[DiscoMick]

That's the ones DiscoMick
You can string em between anything! A tree and the bull bar is good for a roadside stop.
If you get a Hennesy or other lightweight get a pair of snake skins for them, perhaps a little more bulky when packed but setup and pack down is stupidly quick

I would also look at an under quilt - even on Cape York in winter I run one - as you are exposed to the air - I went with this one Incubator 20 - Hammock Gear (http://www.hammockgear.com/incubator-20/)
bit exe but bloody awesome and at under 600gm it is way more compact than a sleeping bag. In the morning Im toasty and warm as opposed to using a sleeping bag where you have a cold back.

So with a lightweight hammock and above under quilt you have full sleep kit for 1.5kg. All fits easily in a 30L day pack plus jumper plus cooker - I end up carrying as much barra gear as camping gear on a 3 day walk!

Hard to beat compared to say a tent/sleep mat and sleep bag.... end up needing a full pack.

S
I'm actually seriously interested. I was looking at the Hennessy Ultralight. Thinking maybe a double bottom so a reflective sheet could be slid inside it for extra warmth. Maybe the larger flysheet for extra rain protection.
We already have excellent sleeping bags plus silk liners.
We're camping on Straddy this Christmas and I can see it slung between two trees, listening to the waves, maybe a beer in hand. Sounds great.


We do actually have a conventional hammock at home but its not asymmetrical and I don't like being curled up like a banana.
We have a camper trailer which the wife likes, but we also have stretchers and simple sleeping bags we have used under an awning in the desert.


In the Hennessy ads they have extra stuff for camping in the snow like insulation that straps around the underneath of the hammock, which we probably don't need here most of the year.
I see on the Hennessy site a video about how to turn the hammock into a camping chair just by unclipping one of the sides and folding it back double inside the hammock. Looks like a good idea. There is also another video about how to use the hammock as a ground tent if there are no trees handy, but it requires walking sticks or something similar at each end.


Am I right in thinking that sleeping asymmetrically (diagonally) means you don't have the issue of rolling around and waking up uncovered?
Why are the Snake Skins a good idea?
Do you think an underquilt is better than putting a pad inside a double bottom?
Did you buy yours locally or import from the US?
Appreciate your experienced advice.


These hammocks also look interesting and the costs are similar:


https://www.warbonnetoutdoors.com/product-category/hammocks/

[roverrescue]

Don't get me wrong, I'm liking the minimal nature of the tech hammock, but what's to stop you shifting in your sleep and waking up like a banana?
MrLandy - Its magic like JLR selling hairdressers the auru of adventure with a badge...

But seriously I think they are just something you either try and love or try and hate or don't bother trying?

DiscoMick to answer your questions.
Snake Skins make setup/ packup stoopidly quick and easy. tie one end, tie other end, slide back skins tie out tarp sides go to sleep. Honestly it takes longer to get a tent out of a bag than to set them up with skins.
Underquilt because you are lying on stretched fabric, and suspended above the ground as the temp drops all your body heat goes south - literally. I tried using a mat under the hammock but it was annoying and hard to position YMMV. I then used the above linked underquilt and it was magically warm and cosy, because of the design you end up cocooned with down. Its a nice vibe. And as I said way lighter and more compact than a standard bag. I mostly hammock it in winter time on barra trips and use the quilt even though 2am temps are likely not below 10 Celsius.
Rolling Around As above you get pretty cosy cocooned and don't seem to roll around.

I imported all my stuff - but where I live there are no local suppliers - I have to pay for freight no matter what - Pretty much universally overseas suppliers can freight direct to me than freight from say Sydney or Brisbane. Not sure how it works but it does.
Also I did some searching but didn't find any good aussie hammock product manufacturers I would happily support local manufacturing.

Geez Im sounding like a fanboi arnt I

s

[MrLandy]

OK...Think I've got it... So it's off the ground so the spiky ruff stuff can't get you and you can put your snakeskin boots underneath, and then you also put your duvet underneath! to keep warm, and you don't bend like a banana but you can't sleep on your front, and you can't share it with someone else unless you're an Olympic gymnast 😜😄😝 and....not only that, but you can load it into your Landy with your tent, swags and kitchen sink. ...loving the minimalism! :wasntme: :Rolling:

[roverrescue]

Landy you forgot about the ;
coal baked barramundi with crisped egg noodle and chilli crumble served with crystal fresh water ��
You're right though I am soft but I totally agree that a stocker defender has more class and ability than any other stock 4wd. Perhaps it and a few jeeps are the only true minimilistic possibilities.

[DiscoMick]

OK...Think I've got it... So it's off the ground so the spiky ruff stuff can't get you and you can put your snakeskin boots underneath, and then you also put your duvet underneath! to keep warm, and you don't bend like a banana but you can't sleep on your front, and you can't share it with someone else unless you're an Olympic gymnast ������ and....not only that, but you can load it into your Landy with your tent, swags and kitchen sink. ...loving the minimalism! :wasntme: :Rolling:
Don't forget this is intended for hiking so people are able to actually carry everything they need in a backpack. How minimal is that!
Snake Skins aren't boots, they're a bag for keeping the sleeping gear in.
I think the idea of being able to pack the whole sleeping arrangement into a backpack, plus some cooking gear and food, sounds just great. If I can just throw the backpack in the back of the Defender and motor off, even better.
Actually, it could live in the Defender. Be prepared, they say.

[MrLandy]

Yeah, just teasing you about your snakeskin boots Mick 😎 ...absolutely, nothing more minimal than walking. In the warm country you can just go with a handline and sleep on the sand...done that 😊
The discussion is really interesting where it becomes about where exactly to draw the fine minimalist line and curbing the cultural desire to be overly prepared...

[SimonM]

Minimalism and lightweight camping is something I practice when bushwalking and I am bringing that to the Defender. I am currently over hauling our camping setup and considering removing some additions that were added when we last travelled and going back to simplicity and lightweight.

This is a nice quote by Bruce Lee which seems relevant here:

"In building a statue, a sculptor doesn't keep adding clay to his subject. Actually, he keeps chiselling away at the inessentials until the truth of its creation is revealed without obstructions. Thus, contrary to other styles, being wise in Jeet Kune-Do doesn't mean adding more; it means to minimize, in other words to hack away the unessential.
It is not daily increase but daily decrease; hack away the unessential."

Its good to hear the chat about camping hammocks, I make them down here in Tassie so happy to answer any questions.

[ThorneGator]

....Love this topic!

I think for everyone, it is about finding their balance of minimalism and practical convenience. We're all somewhere on that bell-curve, but all scattered at different points along that curve.

MY spot on that curve just changed with the arrival of a baby boy to add to wife and dog. So.....now more than ever I am interested in what you all have to say/think about reducing the unnecessary but keeping the helpful.

What items do you find have multiple purposes that lend themselves to saving space and packing effort. I think for most of us, the act of packing and unpacking can be the difference between a quick trip in the bush, and too hard to leave the house.

For me, the little things add up fast (cutlery, plates, pot, pan, billy, mugs) any golden nuggets?

[Rolly]

Hi TG,
Best thing we've found has been the slide out drawer (home made)and vertical water Tank "Boab", In particular the drawer means the kitchen and eating can be got underway whilst Dad (me) gets the tent set up.
Oh, also the Black wolf quick erect means no more feeding of poles/taking ages to set up the tent.

[ozscott]

Yep the quick up tents are the way to go. I have a cheaper version of your Wolf tent in a Coleman Instant Up Gold series with the HD floor and upper. It is up and fly on within 2 mins. Pegging out obviously takes longer but it's an up and straight in process if raining. Never go back to a pole insertion type. Talking about minimal Instant up tents are heavy compared to glass pole types. 20odd KG for a 6v...but again I wouldnt skimp on it. Also I reckon I save 15kg plus in not drinking beer. Cheers!

[DiscoMick]

I roll my clothes up to save packing space. Can fit a lot more in that way because it reduces the airspaces.

[isuzutoo-eh]

....Love this topic!

I think for everyone, it is about finding their balance of minimalism and practical convenience. We're all somewhere on that bell-curve, but all scattered at different points along that curve.

MY spot on that curve just changed with the arrival of a baby boy to add to wife and dog. So.....now more than ever I am interested in what you all have to say/think about reducing the unnecessary but keeping the helpful.

What items do you find have multiple purposes that lend themselves to saving space and packing effort. I think for most of us, the act of packing and unpacking can be the difference between a quick trip in the bush, and too hard to leave the house.

For me, the little things add up fast (cutlery, plates, pot, pan, billy, mugs) any golden nuggets?

Congrats on the son. You're a couple of months ahead of me, and with two pups and SWMBO I have had to have a very hard think about camping style. My FFR 110 is useless-only two seats though ample load space. I can fit two pups and a child in my 110 County but it doesn't leave a lot of room for gear and as soon as there is a second child it'll be another rethink due to canine size. Unfortunately one of the pups is a 'special needs' variety and can't be left at a kennel, and these animals rule out a roof top tent too.
In my bachelor days I used to pride myself on only taking items that would actually be used. A bag of clothes, a milk crate of water, three plastic tubs of food for a couple of weeks, one tub of cooking gear, a table, bedding, chair and RTT. Didn't even have a fridge most of the time. But now I have a significant other.

A trailer is one solution, but I've never been much of a standing camp person, so camper trailer tents aren't desirable to me. A box trailer might be okay, but trailers generally have drawbacks with manoeuvrability and tow vehicle strain.

For me, a dual cab ute will fit the bill I suspect. I hope...:angel:


I find the most space-intensive comfort items are chairs. Comfort versus volume and awkward shape is a challenge. The $10 kmart specials that are often found burnt in fireplaces are not worth taking imho, though I persisted with one for years.

Also, don't forget you can store things in the roof over the load space, whether bungee mesh, baskets or a solid shelf-all have been done by members here and great for soft/squishy light stuff.

[nate_110]

I do a fair bit of solo camping with swag and fridge and some more family friendly camping usually setting up for a min of two nights at a time.

Before the baby came everything fit nicely behind cargo barrier, on back seat and a couple of things on the roof. Baby number one meant a car seat, port a cot etc etc so more went on the roof. With the second baby on the way i decided to try and keep the roof and boot as empty as possible and drag a trailer around instead. The defender has drawers with a table built in so that works wonders on solo trips for keeping it as light/empty as possible.

I have gone from this for a 3 day weekend with the boys

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/09/1134.jpg (http://s1194.photobucket.com/user/nathanccarrington/media/79A1E15E-B4C4-4C42-BC46-DF4858A8F75A_zpsizdc7mze.jpg.html)

to this for a 10 day family trip with wife, 1 kid plus dog

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/09/1135.jpg (http://s1194.photobucket.com/user/nathanccarrington/media/8A3EAEDC-814F-4FEF-9069-629ACCA63C51_zpsjnv2o8nh.jpg.html)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/09/1136.jpg (http://s1194.photobucket.com/user/nathanccarrington/media/3906EA2D-86E6-4783-8344-653485689E11_zpsquneqktn.jpg.html)

to this for a family trip with pregnant wife, 1 kid plus dog. Only had us plus a food tub and pillows in the deefer.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/09/1137.jpg (http://s1194.photobucket.com/user/nathanccarrington/media/26B1DC73-0E64-4809-88CF-6E9DE64B004C_zpsgnwwacom.jpg.html)

[DiscoMick]

Yes, our needs certainly change depending on how many people and how long we are going for. It's one thing to go away for a few days, but another to plan to live in it for a year, for example.

[ozscott]

Deleted

[squizzyhunter]

Yes, our needs certainly change depending on how many people and how long we are going for. It's one thing to go away for a few days, but another to plan to live in it for a year, for example.

That's it right there Mick! I usually travel very light (apart from tools) but this is our current set up for touring for the next 12 months. More weight than I would like but suits well for current needs and supply's to last a month so we can stay in spots we come across that we like without having to head to a town every week.

113896
113898

[roverrescue]

Cooktown waterfront Squizzy
Nice
You in town for a bit?

S

[DiscoMick]

That's it right there Mick! I usually travel very light (apart from tools) but this is our current set up for touring for the next 12 months. More weight than I would like but suits well for current needs and supply's to last a month so we can stay in spots we come across that we like without having to head to a town every week.

113896
113898
Yes, I see what you mean. Wish I was there.


We're currently going through the thinking about whether we could hit the road for a year in 2019 just with the existing camper trailer or if we would want to stump up the money for a more luxy hybrid caravan.
On the one hand it would be nice to have a few luxuries. On the other hand, we could save the large cost, spend a few dollars on some extra bits and pieces, and use the money saved to enjoy ourselves while travelling.
Don't need to make a decision for a while yet, so we're engaged in masterful procrastination.

[squizzyhunter]

Cooktown waterfront Squizzy
Nice
You in town for a bit?

S

Ha ha hard to miss eh 😄
Not at the moment just got back from cape Meville and now slothing it for a day or so in Coen.

Nice part of the world Cooktown very easy to relax into, the kind of place I could turn up meaning to stay for a few days and not realise I'd just spent 10 yrs there..... I could quite happily do that

[squizzyhunter]

Yes, I see what you mean. Wish I was there.


We're currently going through the thinking about whether we could hit the road for a year in 2019 just with the existing camper trailer or if we would want to stump up the money for a more luxy hybrid caravan.
On the one hand it would be nice to have a few luxuries. On the other hand, we could save the large cost, spend a few dollars on some extra bits and pieces, and use the money saved to enjoy ourselves while travelling.
Don't need to make a decision for a while yet, so we're engaged in masterful procrastination.

Yes I know what you mean! I'm happy with the no. 5 trailer with the rooftop tent on top which is glamping by my normal standards. Built a ply slide out kitchen before we left and though it's not pretty to look at it's fairly functional. As this thread has shown we all have our own level of must have items which seems to be quite fluid over time. Hope you make out for the year in 2019 mate

[DiscoMick]

Yes I know what you mean! I'm happy with the no. 5 trailer with the rooftop tent on top which is glamping by my normal standards. Built a ply slide out kitchen before we left and though it's not pretty to look at it's fairly functional. As this thread has shown we all have our own level of must have items which seems to be quite fluid over time. Hope you make out for the year in 2019 mate


Yep, we have a plan and are doing the hard yards financially now to make it happen.

[MrLandy]

Yes, I see what you mean. Wish I was there.


We're currently going through the thinking about whether we could hit the road for a year in 2019 just with the existing camper trailer or if we would want to stump up the money for a more luxy hybrid caravan.
On the one hand it would be nice to have a few luxuries. On the other hand, we could save the large cost, spend a few dollars on some extra bits and pieces, and use the money saved to enjoy ourselves while travelling.
Don't need to make a decision for a while yet, so we're engaged in masterful procrastination.

The financial freedom and simplicity of the camper trailer sounds like the way to go Mick! Plus...a camper trailer is bordering on not being minimal at all! 😜 😄 Let alone 'the few extra luxuries' of a caravan! :wasntme:

[51mondays]

Just spent a couple of excellent weeks in Tassie. No fridge yet, just one Oztent, 2 grown-ups, 3 kids and a full boot. It wasn't all that fun when it rained. Need to take an extra biggish tarp next time. Got the snow peak brazier which was brilliant. The car has drawers in it and a table, which worked quite well. The plan is: a fridge (for summer), a bit of lighting, and maybe a car back kitchen from drifta. If we took the big dog, then we'd need a trailer :)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/09/582.jpghttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/09/583.jpg

[Sly]

Good on you for getting out and having a go . Its never easy when the back seats full , but worth every minute.

[DiscoMick]

The financial freedom and simplicity of the camper trailer sounds like the way to go Mick! Plus...a camper trailer is bordering on not being minimal at all! 😜 😄 Let alone 'the few extra luxuries' of a caravan! :wasntme:

Yes, I know, but it's a pretty basic camper trailer, not flash like the newer ones. Still, it does get us up off the ground in wet weather, which is a big plus.

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

[MrLandy]

Nice going with 3 kids 51mondays! Impressive minimalism. ...yes a big tarp is always good to have on board, especially in tassie. A few similarities to my set up :-) no kids yet mind you! although I don't think I'd change much, maybe a second tent at some stage! ...This is at Great Sandy NP a while back ...Freedom tent instead of OzTent, fridge, solar panel, gas stove, chairs, swags. I like the look of the drifta kitchens too, maybe one day. A folding table has done me for many years.

[squizzyhunter]

Nice going with 3 kids 51mondays! Impressive minimalism. ...yes a big tarp is always good to have on board, especially in tassie. A few similarities to my set up :-) no kids yet mind you! although I don't think I'd change much, maybe a second tent at some stage! ...This is at Great Sandy NP a while back ...Freedom tent instead of OzTent, fridge, solar panel, gas stove, chairs, swags. I like the look of the drifta kitchens too, maybe one day. A folding table has done me for many years.

Nice! Yes a fringe is nice I never had one till last yr but now I find it hard to go without (well for going away for anything over a few days anyway)

[jon3950]

I like the concept of minimalism and am trying hard to get back to it with our camping. I'm finding as I get older there are a few things I can't do with out though. A fridge is very much at the top the list. I also find it very difficult to sleep on the ground now.

So here's my current version of minimalism:


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/09/566.jpg


Cheers,
Jon

[MrLandy]

I like the concept of minimalism and am trying hard to get back to it with our camping. I'm finding as I get older there are a few things I can't do with out though. A fridge is very much at the top the list. I also find it very difficult to sleep on the ground now.

So here's my current version of minimalism:


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/09/566.jpg


Cheers,
Jon

Wow... That looks perfect👍 Nice one...where is that?

[jon3950]

Wow... That looks perfect👍 Nice one...where is that?

Willow Springs, in the Flinders Ranges. We'd gone back to a small hiking tent before this which I really liked but my back kept complaining. Also we only take a small gas stove for boiling the billy and usually only cook on an open fire.

Minimalism can sometimes limit your options, but really we only like bush camping like this and would prefer to stay in some accommodation than camp in a caravan park or big campground.

Cheers,
Jon

[MrLandy]

Willow Springs, in the Flinders Ranges. We'd gone back to a small hiking tent before this which I really liked but my back kept complaining. Also we only take a small gas stove for boiling the billy and usually only cook on an open fire.

Minimalism can sometimes limit your options, but really we only like bush camping like this and would prefer to stay in some accommodation than camp in a caravan park or big campground.

Cheers,
Jon

Ahh of course....love the Flinders :-)

Yeah the old thermarest hasn't seen much action with me for a while either. I can't get enough of my swag with a thick mattress. ...most of all under the stars in the desert. But when there's rain around or less open space the old faithful Freedom tourer comes out..had it for over 20 years. Simple.
Cheers brother.

[jon3950]

We have a Southern Cross tourer of a similar vintage. They're a great style of style of tent - nice and simple. I just found I kept doing my back in getting it in and out of the car.

Cheers,
Jon

[MrLandy]

We have a Southern Cross tourer of a similar vintage. They're a great style of style of tent - nice and simple. I just found I kept doing my back in getting it in and out of the car.

Cheers,
Jon

Yeah, they're not light and my back might be a couple of years your junior! ...but I like the flat square pack down and four pegs and a pole is hard to beat in terms of simplicity of set up. Super robust.

How do you find the swag stretchers? I like a firm bed base and I'm not sure I'd like sleeping on the stretcher base?

[jon3950]

I like them.

By far the most comfortable nights sleep camping I've ever had and very quick to setup and pack away. The stretcher on its own is reasonably firm and quite comfortable but I put my thermarest in there as well for insulation. The first night we used them without and we froze, but that was in the Blue Mountains in winter. Have had a couple of wet nights in them with no problems but nothing serious.

I'm not totally convinced about their longevity yet, maybe that's just because I'm used to good quality canvas. They have a bit of a lightweight feel to them, but probably no more so than most tents. So far so good though.

Cheers,
Jon

[MrLandy]

I like them.

By far the most comfortable nights sleep camping I've ever had and very quick to setup and pack away. The stretcher on its own is reasonably firm and quite comfortable but I put my thermarest in there as well for insulation. The first night we used them without and we froze, but that was in the Blue Mountains in winter. Have had a couple of wet nights in them with no problems but nothing serious.

I'm not totally convinced about their longevity yet, maybe that's just because I'm used to good quality canvas. They have a bit of a lightweight feel to them, but probably no more so than most tents. So far so good though.

Cheers,
Jon

They sound really good Jon, thanks. What make are yours? I might have to take a closer look. Cheers

[DiscoMick]

Stretcher + swag works well for me. I like being up off the ground and the Saul swag with mattress makes it quite warm and comfy.

Sent from my SM-G900I using AULRO mobile app

[ozscott]

I have used all manner and thickness of air beds, and self inflation mats (through to 4 in thick) and different brands. By far the most comfortable sleep I have found is an alloy stretcher with thin self inflation mat on top and normal pillow. Nothing worse than when sleeping on your side and having you head too low relative to your shoulder... Rye neck time!

When I was 20 I didn't care and would sleep in a bag without a mat on the ground. 2 and a half times that age and... Not any more. Cheers

[jon3950]

They sound really good Jon, thanks. What make are yours? I might have to take a closer look. Cheers

I went for the Oztent bunkers:

Jet Tent Bunker (http://www.oztent.com.au/Products/jet-tent-bunker)

I can't remember what we paid for them (not as much on the website) but they are not cheap. I eliminated the Oztrail one on grounds of quality.

The other one I liked the look of at the time was the Kulkyne Homestead:

Drifters Creek :: Everything in Camping & 4WD (http://www.drifterscreek.com.au/au/homestead-swags)

I thought they were a bit bulky and more complicated to set up though. I'm sure you could get similar results with a stretcher and a swag, but at the time I bought them I still had the Disco so was a little more concious of space.

Some more about my set up and the journey I took to get there is in my build thread, here:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/2541341-post28.html
and here:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/2544272-post39.html

Since then I've changed to a Rapidwing awning and some drawers, but it's still pretty minimal.

Cheers,
Jon

[MrLandy]

Simple...

[SimonM]

This is our last camping trip with the hammocks and simple alcohol burners for cooking. Laying around and then a few walks exploring the area doesn't get much better.