Td5 Timing

[jasonharrison]

I've got both the crank and camshaft pinned using the timing tools, as well as the mark on the sprocket aligned with the notch in the camshaft. However I do not have the dark links positioned correctly with the notch in the camshaft.

Do I have the engine timed or is it possible to line everything else up except for the dark links?

[discorevy]

don't worry about the dark links, but with the pins in , loosen the 3 cam sprocket bolts and turn (by hand) the sprocket counter clockwise so there is no slack in the chain then tighten the bolts...this ensures the cam timing is bang on as they don't like much advance /retard

[justinc]

The dark links only there for initial quick assembly. First engine revolution they will all be out. As mentioned,if pins are in it'll be good.

Jc

[jasonharrison]

@discorevy that's clockwise when standing at the front and facing the engine correct?

@justinc cheers! I was stressing that the links weren't lining up correctly.

[discorevy]

Counter clockwise when your looking at it from the front , you want the tensioner to take up the slack.

[rangieman]

Counter clockwise when your looking at it from the front , you want the tensioner to take up the slack.

Off subject but i been wondering for ages how people that have only ever had a digital watch or clock`s would fair:angel:;)

[discorevy]

Off subject but i been wondering for ages how people that have only ever had a digital watch or clock`s would fair:angel:;)

you'd need to be clock....wise, or they could just google it:p

[rangieman]

you'd need to be clock....wise, or they could just google it:p

Silly me get with the times , Good Ol Google:angel:

[Blknight.aus]

if you havent dismantled the front end of the engine its an utter pain to try and get the links to line up. I learnt that the hard way on the first td5 I did the head on.

Put the chain on any way it wants to sit get everything in place and setup pull the pins and roll the engine over 2 full turns by hand and the give it a spin on the starter if it doesnt foul or cause problems.

reposition to drop the timing pins in and if they go in youve got it nailed.

[discorevy]

Not sure why you'd want to give it a spin on the starter , but if you do make sure you pull the fuel pump relay.Otherwise you'll have an oily mess to clean up . Two turns clockwise (looking from the front) then rechecking will be fine. Are you replacing the head Jason?.

[Blknight.aus]

spinning it on the starter makes sure that the chain settles onto the tensioner properly as well as bringing the oil pressure up lets you do the priming sequence.

not a major issues on td5's but on some other lesser engines...

[discorevy]

The chain would be "settled" , after 1 full rotation by hand , if not, you've
got problems, surely you don't do a rebuild, fit it to the vehicle then pull the rocker / cam cover off again just to spin the starter and get oil everywhere.

[jasonharrison]

Not sure why you'd want to give it a spin on the starter , but if you do make sure you pull the fuel pump relay.Otherwise you'll have an oily mess to clean up . Two turns clockwise (looking from the front) then rechecking will be fine. Are you replacing the head Jason?.

I had taken the head off to replace a minor head gasket issue (pressurised cooling system when cold)

Safe to say everything has been put back together and runs like a charm!

[Blknight.aus]

The chain would be "settled" , after 1 full rotation by hand , if not, you've
got problems, surely you don't do a rebuild, fit it to the vehicle then pull the rocker / cam cover off again just to spin the starter and get oil everywhere.

Some engines dont require you to strip down the whole front end just to do some of the major maintenance activities that can interfere with the timing, oil pump and fuel pump priming.

you dont spill that much oil you're only cranking it until the oil pressure light goes out and as you're not starting it you can simply sit the rocker cover in place if you're worried about the tiny amount of oil that will spray.

This is one of those things that you only want to learn about being a good idea the first time. I'd rather tell you I've had it go wrong and suggest a method that prevents issues to save you from having to make the same screw ups I have.

I cant remember whose tagline it is but


Unless you can borrow it from an older fella, experience is that thing you dont get till right after you needed it most.

[discorevy]

I appreciate that some engines don't require that Dave , and I don't intend to put down your experience, or the valuable help you give to the forum , but I have been a qualified spanner spinner for nearly 30 years plenty jap stuff but mainly land/ range rover, including apprenticeship, during that time I would have built 1-200 engines , 8 or 9 td5,s as well as dozens of td5 heads , in that time neither myself or anyone I've worked with has needed to do it the way you describe , personally I don't see the need / have the time / desire to charge the customer for unnecessary work, I guess you don't overcharge either , that's why you give your time / experience on here for nothing , what I was getting at was ,for example you rebuilt an engine on the stand then fitted it , you would , in the case of a td5 , pull the fuel pump relay, crank it over to make sure the oil light went out , then bleed sequence , why would you remove the rocker cover again ?, what happened the time you talk about?.

[Blknight.aus]

I dont do by the hour charges its a by the job and I usually only take the jobs that are either, quick as I can as cheap as I can to get it to limping to get it somewhere that can do a better job,jobs that need to be done to keep the vehicle going long enough until enough money is available for a proper repair or jobs where its got to be done right at the lowest cost first time.

Contrary to what some might think while I'm a professional mechanic (among the other hats I wear) Im not in it as my own business or in a position that lets me officially take on work. I do all the spannering on my own time, uninsured for the work and if it goes wrong then Its more of my time and my money to pay for the parts that go wrong from my cock ups. Usually the money that saves is put directly into more parts so a more thorough job can be done Sundries and disposals all come out of my pocket as does tooling. My mistakes carry a very high price and since I like to see value for money I have no issue with giving advice that only might prevent someone from making the same mistakes I have.

To the question at hand.

If I was doing a full on stands engine rebuild no I wouldn't spin the engine over on the starter just to confirm the timing alignment because I would have had the whole front of the engine down and set everything up with the front of the engine apart.

For a job when I'm only doing the head with the engine in and dont have to pull the front of the engine apart but I disturb the timing gear. yeah I'll take the minute it takes to just sit the rocker covers on after winding the engine over by hand to confirm the timing worked and didnt go wrong then keying it on the starter for 30 seconds or less to confirm oil pressure before taking another 2 minutes to pull the rocker covers back off, check nothings awry under the cover and the timing still lines up.

The specific instance Im talking about was on a chained DOHC engine with a double row chain and a slipper tensioner adjusted by oil pressure. What we didn't know when we put the chain back on the slipper had come out of normal alignment and was twisted out of position. turned over by hand and there was no sign of problem started it and the slipper tore apart the timing went out and valves met pistons under power when the oil pressure came up.

One in a million, but when you're an at home DIY'er you dont usually have a spare lazy several thousand hanging around to repair/replace the engine/parts after a minor stuff up. If you did, you'd probably have paid a pro mechanic in a proper workshop with full insurance to do the work.