YALT: Yet Another Locker Thread

[stewie110]

Hi All,

I am currently looking at purchasing a new pair of lockers for my MY15 110. My previous defenders had Maxi-drive lockers. Never missed a beat.

Originally I was looking at ARB units. However I was on a trip earlier in the year for two weeks. 8 vehicles of which 4 had ARB lockers, none of them had a flawless experience. Some of the problems could have been installer related (poor electrical install work, crappy connections etc) others seemed to be design failures (leaks or oil in the compressors). While none of the vehicles on the trip were land rovers it did seem to be a generic product problem (Nissan, Toyota and Jeep). That experience has made me look to other brands again.

I originally started looking at the Ashcroft units. I have used ashcroft products in the past and found them to be excellent. I then found McNamara which is an Australian made product and looks amazing. McNamara also recommended TJM. All of these products are air operated. I have been unable to find anyone writing reviews or experience with the TJM products in a Defender. I am interested to know if anyone has had problems with the air supply on any of these other products?

I have also been thinking strongly about eLocker as it has no airlines. In theory electrical circuits are easier to test/diagnose problems with. Finding an air leak can be a nightmare. At least you can measure electricity in and electricity out of a pair of wires.

I am interested to know what other peoples feelings are on the topic. I am particularly interested to know what people feel are the pro's and con's from each approach (air vs electricity) and are the airlines as fragile as they appear from my experience.

[rangieman]

112926
And who do you think makes the TJM locker = Mcnamarra

[stewie110]

112926
And who do you think makes the TJM locker = Mcnamarra
From what they said on the phone, designed by but mass produced somewhere else. Is that not the case?

[1nando]

From what they said on the phone, designed by but mass produced somewhere else. Is that not the case?

I run an elocker in the rear of my 2013 110. Cant fault it, love it, gkad i got it

Sent from my SM-G925I using AULRO mobile app

[weeds]

Umm, my twin ARB's just worked.....yeah sure the rear o-ring did let a small amount of oil back to the solenoid.

I will be looking at Ashcroft and maybe the e-locker in 12 months time....or default back to ARB

[stewie110]

Umm, my twin ARB's just worked.....yeah sure the rear o-ring did let a small amount of oil back to the solenoid.

I will be looking at Ashcroft and maybe the e-locker in 12 months time....or default back to ARB
Out of interest what sort of length of service have you seen?

[weeds]

I believe they were installed by previous owner around 80k, I purchased at 180k and sold it it's close to 400k.....sooo 300k give or take.

I would engage the rear nearly every camping/4WD trip....I'm a believer if there I the slightest chance of the smallest/fraction of wheel spin I engaged the rear.

The front was rarely engaged.

[4wheeler]

My 2013 Defender is booked in to have the Harrop e locker put in the rear next month. After having a 2012 Mazda BT50 with an electric locker in the rear, it just seemed easy to go down that track. Don't need to worry about leaking seals, airlines or a compressor.

Mulgo has an in-dash switch which looks factory and Harrop have indicated that they will fit the wiring loom to this switch provided they are happy with it. I will have the dash apart for them to make life easy. I am awaiting this switch.

Harrop are just down the road from me so makes life easy. If the rear works well, then might consider a front locker in the future.

Mudstuff UK have carling switch mounts which fit in the cup holder as well as genuine etched carling switches. Not sure if I will fit these or go the genuine switch look. Only took 7 days to get the Mudstuff from the UK. I would put an override switch in though so I need two switches to activate the locker if use the Mudstuff switch housing. Too easy to accidentally bump a switch to on position.

[weeds]

Re: air locker....the sealing issue with ARB isn't as big as it seems, well from the few setups I have knowledge off. It only sucks oil back to the solenoid when you dis-engage the locker, you can fit a piece of hose to direct it (if it happens to leak, remember you only read about the few that have issues there are probably thousands running around without issue).....therefore 99.9999% of the time if no issue at all

Air-line v electrical cable...both are exposed and can be damaged.

Compressor, well nearly every 4WD has one...hard wire/plumbing it in seems a logical thing to do.

Either way it will probably come down to cost for me between ARB, e-locker and Ashcroft as I'm only interested in a selectable locker.

[FV1601]

My understanding is that McNamara designed the diff lock and built them originally before selling the design to TJM. As a happy McNamara customer from 1982, that was good enough for me and I bought front and rear TJM Pro Lockers. Picked it up last Friday and tested them Saturday.
I had heard a few rumours about the ARB air locker quality over the last few years, and have never been overly fond of dealing with ARB.
Stuck with Diff Locks over other systems, because it gives me some measure of control, and I was going to fit a compressor anyway.
Of note, TJM supplied air compressor is no good for pumping tyres etc, I did buy the ARB Comp. as advised by my local TJM guys.... (Edit. This may have changed since I bought the comp. last year, and there was a rumour that TJM had a more suitable one in the pipeline).
I also fitted Mulgo diff lock switch's rather than the generic ones supplied with the lockers.
Land Rover Auxiliary Switches for Defender 2002 onwards | Buy 4x4 Land Rover Toyota Nissan Accessories and Parts Online Store | Expedition Centre Australia by Mulgo (http://www.expeditioncentre.com.au/online-store/touring/electrics-fuses-connectors/land-rover-auxiliary-switches-for-defender-2002-onwards.html)


I fitted the air compressor and wiring loom myself last year to save a few dollars, and have everything where I wanted it when I could afford the lockers.


Very happy with them so far....
Rich.

[Michael2]

I've got front and rear ARB air lockers on my 110. They've let me down as many times as they've helped me, with similar problems you've noted.

A friend has Detroit lockers front and rear on his 110, and another has them front and rear on a D2a.

They haven't had any issues with "permanent" lockers in both diffs.

I need to choose the point at which I lock my diff/s knowing that this will result in reduced turning function (especially for the front). With the detroits, they can have maximum traction all the time, and should the need to turn overcome the need for traction, the diff will allow it.

If I had to do this to a new vehicle, I'd put the auto lockers in at half the cost, with a significant improvement in reliability. If it was a Competition Vehicle, I suppose the air lockers might be a bit stronger, but for a touring vehicle I think the automatic lockers give the best result with maximum traction all the time.

[NovaRover]

Put in the Harrop on the rear of my 130 last month . Love it, just hit the switch and instant engagement with no fuss. Can disengage while on the move with no fuss. Planing to put the Ashcroft ATB in the front later as I can't help feeling they will be kinder to the front universals.

[1nando]

Put in the Harrop on the rear of my 130 last month . Love it, just hit the switch and instant engagement with no fuss. Can disengage while on the move with no fuss. Planing to put the Ashcroft ATB in the front later as I can't help feeling they will be kinder to the front universals.

Im thinking of dling the same to my front diff. I figure its a good way to strengthen it up, just not sure if ill do that first or an atb for the centre diff. Decisions decisions

Sent from my SM-G925I using AULRO mobile app

[Iain_B]

I went with the Ashcroft ATBs front and rear on mine, works great with the traction control system and most importantly, works when you need it. No need to back down and switch them on for another go with the lockers on :p

[rangieman]

I went with the Ashcroft ATBs front and rear on mine, works great with the traction control system and most importantly, works when you need it. No need to back down and switch them on for another go with the lockers on :p

The whole idea with manual locker`s is you weigh up the situation ahead .
Ill look at something as im driving up to it and if needed i`ll stop get out and survey the job ahead if needed ;).
But honestly real drivers will just engage locker or lockers before attempting anything to minimize track damage or car damage:cool:
No need to rip a track up then engage your locker that is what nissota driver`s do :eek:
I prefer the air locker`s as they suit my need with a built compressor and the choice of engagement when needed and when i want them.

[Disco-tastic]

I went with the Ashcroft ATBs front and rear on mine, works great with the traction control system and most importantly, works when you need it. No need to back down and switch them on for another go with the lockers on :p

That's a great "set and forget" solution!

Without TC I would always go a manual locker. Auto lockers seem to be too inconsistent, and the ARB air lockers I had on my old D1 never let me down (they let oil past the seals though, which was fixed with a new $1 O-ring...)

Here's an appropriate video comparing manual and auto lockers, as well as the D2 traction control

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qTSY4X-cnlQ

Cheers,

Dan

[rutmutt]

I have twin elockers in MY13 110 for the reasons stated in OP. Easy to diagnose and fix.

Sent from my ZTE Blade Q Lux using AULRO mobile app

[stewie110]

Hi All,

I am currently looking at purchasing a new pair of lockers for my MY15 110. My previous defenders had Maxi-drive lockers. Never missed a beat.

Originally I was looking at ARB units. However I was on a trip earlier in the year for two weeks. 8 vehicles of which 4 had ARB lockers, none of them had a flawless experience. Some of the problems could have been installer related (poor electrical install work, crappy connections etc) others seemed to be design failures (leaks or oil in the compressors). While none of the vehicles on the trip were land rovers it did seem to be a generic product problem (Nissan, Toyota and Jeep). That experience has made me look to other brands again.

I originally started looking at the Ashcroft units. I have used ashcroft products in the past and found them to be excellent. I then found McNamara which is an Australian made product and looks amazing. McNamara also recommended TJM. All of these products are air operated. I have been unable to find anyone writing reviews or experience with the TJM products in a Defender. I am interested to know if anyone has had problems with the air supply on any of these other products?

I have also been thinking strongly about eLocker as it has no airlines. In theory electrical circuits are easier to test/diagnose problems with. Finding an air leak can be a nightmare. At least you can measure electricity in and electricity out of a pair of wires.

I am interested to know what other peoples feelings are on the topic. I am particularly interested to know what people feel are the pro's and con's from each approach (air vs electricity) and are the airlines as fragile as they appear from my experience.
Update: Over the weekend I went and looked at the kits from arb, harrop and tjm. Without having metal strength testing gear etc they all look to have a similar level of build quality. Measured by similar weights, feel, look of finish.

The harrop part looks the most simple by far. Some wires coming into a locking mechanism. The various parts for the air based systems quickly add up. I am still undecided as to what I am going to be purchasing.

An add-on to the original question.
How many people have upgraded the crown wheel and pinion? When they did their locker upgrade. My local OL dealer seemed familiar with the late model defender and suggested doing those parts. I had been planning to upgrade the axles and flanges already.

[FV1601]

I up graded the front crown/pinion for the TJM locker. But that was because the complete diff was disintegrating due to incompetence. Still seething over that one, but on the bright side the front end shimmy is gone.


Question for the brains trust Re. Lockers vs Maxi drives/self locking diffs.
The brakes on my TDCI 130 are woeful (No ABS, not sure if that makes a difference) and on steep downhill tracks with severe rutting or steps as soon as one of the wheels lost weight/unloaded any braking effort went straight to that wheel causing some interesting moments and an irate navigator. The rear diff lock has certainly made a huge improvement in this regard: does this trick work with maxi-drives etc?


After some testing over the last two weeks I have found that the lockers have turned very interesting tracks into boring ones. Just what the navigator ordered...
Rich.

[stewie110]

I up graded the front crown/pinion for the TJM locker. But that was because the complete diff was disintegrating due to incompetence. Still seething over that one, but on the bright side the front end shimmy is gone.


Question for the brains trust Re. Lockers vs Maxi drives/self locking diffs.
The brakes on my TDCI 130 are woeful (No ABS, not sure if that makes a difference) and on steep downhill tracks with severe rutting or steps as soon as one of the wheels lost weight/unloaded any braking effort went straight to that wheel causing some interesting moments and an irate navigator. The rear diff lock has certainly made a huge improvement in this regard: does this trick work with maxi-drives etc?


After some testing over the last two weeks I have found that the lockers have turned very interesting tracks into boring ones. Just what the navigator ordered...
Rich.
Out of interest what manufacturer did you go with for the upgraded crown and pinion?

I have had to use front centre and rear lockers on sleep declines and inclines on my previous maxi drives.

[isuzutoo-eh]

I up graded the front crown/pinion for the TJM locker. But that was because the complete diff was disintegrating due to incompetence. Still seething over that one, but on the bright side the front end shimmy is gone.


Question for the brains trust Re. Lockers vs Maxi drives/self locking diffs.
The brakes on my TDCI 130 are woeful (No ABS, not sure if that makes a difference) and on steep downhill tracks with severe rutting or steps as soon as one of the wheels lost weight/unloaded any braking effort went straight to that wheel causing some interesting moments and an irate navigator. The rear diff lock has certainly made a huge improvement in this regard: does this trick work with maxi-drives etc?


After some testing over the last two weeks I have found that the lockers have turned very interesting tracks into boring ones. Just what the navigator ordered...
Rich.


Maxi-Drive are full, selectable lockers. They function identically to an Ashcroft, ARB, TJM or Macnamara locker. The only difference is the design, not the function.

Are you perchance talking about Detroit Soflockers-which are automatic lockers; or Ashcroft ATB & Detroit Tru-Track torque biasing diffs?

[FV1601]

Stewie110. Good point, my local independent Land Rover expert sourced the crown wheel and pinion for me (Thanks Ivan), so not sure. My feeling is that it was LR. He certainly never raised the subject of needing anything more robust front or rear, and his judgement I trust.


Isuzutoo-eh. Sorry 'bout that, I was confusing Maxi drives with Detroit style lockers, temporary brain failure.
Can I rephrase the question, Full diff Lockers vs Ashcroft ATB & Detroit Tru-Track torque biasing diffs as a downhill braking aid?
Rich.

[isuzutoo-eh]

A full locker won't allow either wheel on the axle to speed up without the other, so yes it negates most of the lurching.
An ATB diff will allow different wheel speeds so won't eliminate lurching, but it definitely does soften any and thus increases control, in my experience. I fitted an ATB in the front before I put a Detroit in the back.

[donh54]

D1 auto, with Detroit Locker rear, and Detroit Tru-track front. Trouble free traction when and where you need it. No external switches, hoses, etc.
May have slightly (<5%) more tyre wear, but well worth it.
Also the peace of mind that if I suffered an injury in the bush, the missus can drive out without needing any knowledge of when or where to use/not use lockers.
Would I put them in another vehicle, for the same type of use? Most definitely!

[isuzurover]

My 2c:
I have 1xMD locker and 2x ARB lockers across 2 vehicles.

The MD locker has always worked flawlessly, if a bit slow.
Mechanically the ARBs have been fine as well. The only issues I have had have been due to the solenoids clogging up with dirt/mud (I mounted them too low in hindsight). I will eventually convert them to 100% pneumatic actuation.

Jacmac/TJM is still the best design.

If I was ever buying a rover locker again it would probably be Ashcroft

p.s. ...My tractor has a mechanical difflock. I like the simplicity.

[stewie110]

My 2c:
I have 1xMD locker and 2x ARB lockers across 2 vehicles.

The MD locker has always worked flawlessly, if a bit slow.
Mechanically the ARBs have been fine as well. The only issues I have had have been due to the solenoids clogging up with dirt/mud (I mounted them too low in hindsight). I will eventually convert them to 100% pneumatic actuation.

Jacmac/TJM is still the best design.

If I was ever buying a rover locker again it would probably be Ashcroft

p.s. ...My tractor has a mechanical difflock. I like the simplicity.
Aren't most diff locks mechanical? Or do you mean you have a lever or similar to engage the lock? (just trying to understand)

[Tote]

Most tractors have a pedal you stand on to lock the diff as required...

Regards,
Tote

[stewie110]

Most tractors have a pedal you stand on to lock the diff as required...

Regards,
Tote
I was not aware thanks for the info.

[FV1601]

Mechanical Diff lock: at the risk of going off topic, those of us with long enough memories will remember the Jack Macnamara mechanical locker for the Series Land Rovers (and early Rangie I think), simple and so very strong. A modified rear drive flange allowed a heavier spring loaded axle to be kept in the normal position with a drawbolt, when this was removed the axle would be forced into the modified (splined) diff centre, usually just as you moved off, and with a very satisfying thunk. If the day was interesting, the locker would be engaged with the Hubs, end of day, hubs to free, and out with the spanner and withdraw the axle. The steering always felt so light on the way home!
Reminiscence over, sorry 'bout that.
Rich.

[Iain_B]

I also drive a Unimog, I know all about the pros and cons lockers and when and where to use them, I modified my Unimog to be able to independently control the front and rear diff locks. . The idea of "weighing up the situation" when you approach each dune, puddle or washout is not really practical if you are doing any long distance touring, fine for a "weekend warrior" on a power line track but not on the Canning Stock Route. You can't drive up each dune with the diff locks on, not if you want to turn. In my Mog I can switch the lockers on or off on the move with switch on the dash, but would prefer auto lockers any day.

My D1 had Tru tracs front and rear, and they worked fantastically. When I got my 110, I fitted the ATBs, having a fully automatic limited slip diff means you don't get stuck in scenarios when you need more all four wheels for traction, scenarios where the traction control would be cutting in on a standard car reducing power needed to get up the dune.



The whole idea with manual locker`s is you weigh up the situation ahead .
Ill look at something as im driving up to it and if needed i`ll stop get out and survey the job ahead if needed ;).
But honestly real drivers will just engage locker or lockers before attempting anything to minimize track damage or car damage:cool:
No need to rip a track up then engage your locker that is what nissota driver`s do :eek:
I prefer the air locker`s as they suit my need with a built compressor and the choice of engagement when needed and when i want them.