Kubota Diesel over filled with oil

[rijidij]

G'day All,
I'm looking at a used Kubota machine with a 3 cyl diesel. The owner said his son 'checked' the oil level was right by filling it up........right to the top of the engine :eek: Obviously it didn't run very well when started.
He's drained the excess oil and got it started again (needed aerosol help), but it still pushes oil out the breather. It's hard to start, like the glow plugs aren't working.
Doesn't seem to be any major issues like bent rods or crank etc, it didn't hydraulic lock.
I don't know much about Kubota engines, so what's the recommended corse of action.
What's a good method of flushing an engine of oil, and assuming there's nothing actually broken, what else can be done to get it back to running.

Thanks for any advice.

Cheers, Murray

[justinc]

Murray it is highly likely it DID hydraulic lock....😕

Jc

[DazzaTD5]

The Kubota 3 & 4 cylinder engine are extremely robust and it generally takes a lot to damage one, but as already mentioned, it may well have hydraulic locked.
Although i'd assume once started it would be blowing a fairly constant amount of blue smoke.

The hard starting on a Kubota engine (this will vary depending on what the engine is in)...
*fuel solenoid are prone to failure/sticking (back of injector pump, can be removed to see how it starts, to turn off, stick your finger in the hole and push the fuel cutoff lever until it stops)
*Oil pressure switch - Often is wired as part of the fuel solenoid circuit, so engine wont start until oil pressure is achieved. (they typically crank over longer than engines without this circuit)
*Water temp switch - can be wired to the fuel solenoid circuit (typical symptoms though are, engine starts but cuts out).
*Some engine will have both of the above.
*Neutral safety switch sticking - while just about all wont turn over unless in neutral, some equipment will allow the engine to turn over but wont start.

Parts and engines are readily available..

Regards
Daz

P.S I dont know there is anything to be done to flush engine, if it starts and runs fine, keep running it, if blowing smoke it should clear eventually...

[justinc]

The key here is hard to start. If it has fuel at the injector lines while cranking and the thing will run on 'start ya bastard' then i would be a little concerned😕 last one of these with those symptoms i saw had been dusted😕

Jc

[DazzaTD5]

The key here is hard to start. If it has fuel at the injector lines while cranking and the thing will run on 'start ya bastard' then i would be a little concerned😕 last one of these with those symptoms i saw had been dusted😕

Jc

Agreeded, but if it was dusted, that means it was hard to start before the "oil over fill job"...OP?? .... common mobile equipment to get dusted are any earth engaging equipment (skid steers, eskies)

as taught as an apprentice...
There are only two reasons a diesel wont start. 1 no compression, 2 no fuel.

Regards
Daz

[Blknight.aus]

the glow plugs are likely knackered and the rings will have taken a pasting from excess pressure from the wrong direction. I dont even want to pretend that I'm going to try to imagine the potential for big end, bearing, gudgeon and piston damage that could have been done.



pull the glow plugs and do a rough tdc/bdc height check.

kill the fuel pump and slack the injection lines then get some brake cleaner down the bores through the glow plug holes ( or the injector holes) wind it by hand and then spin it on the starter.

if it was full as in top of the rocker cover full, the combustion chamber and piston head will be caked in semi burnt oil and it will take an age to get it out, it will use some oil till the rings sort themselves and you get any glaze off the cylinder walls.

If the pistons all seem to be about the same heights, and the brake clean trick gets you some improvement then you might get lucky, mix a little DEX III atf into the engine oil or some engine flushing agent and see what it does you'll want a few short interval engine oil changes untill it gets to as good as its going to get.


Dont forget that it might also have spat a heap of oil into the air intake.

[justinc]

Agreeded, but if it was dusted, that means it was hard to start before the "oil over fill job"...OP?? .... common mobile equipment to get dusted are any earth engaging equipment (skid steers, eskies)

as taught as an apprentice...
There are only two reasons a diesel wont start. 1 no compression, 2 no fuel.

Regards
Daz

Yup. The one we had was from an all terrain scissor lift. Would fill up a 600ml coke bottle with oil from the breather in 1 hour. Would only start on aerostart and even then after a while of cranking. They had remived the airfilter because it was blocked and was using too much fuel..I agree Murray did you actually see it running before it was 'overfilled'?

Jc

[rijidij]

No, I haven't seen the machine in the flesh, just getting info from the owner, this is the machine here KUBOTA 72 " OUT FRONT MOWER F2400 (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/302062379541?_trksid=p2060353.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT)
The engine model should be a D1105-F

I'm moving on to a few acres soon, so I'm looking for a decent size mower, but I can't afford to spend too much at the moment. Ideally I'd like a diesel zero turn.
I don't mind having to fix things, even if it means fitting a new engine but I'm not looking for a major time consuming project.

Cheers, Murray

[DazzaTD5]

ok.... on reading what the seller has put there... I think we can assume the engine is well knackered....

That I'd say is going to take you more time and money than I'm guessing you are willing to spend?

The last Kubota 3 cylinder series I was after, I bought a used lighting tower from auction, $2K and took the engine out... BUT I knew what engine was used in what equipment so i went looking for a particular brand/model. Any other equipment that uses that engine is going to cost you prolly more than that (but cheaper than rebuilding an engine), small bobcat, small eskies, the smaller rough terrain scissor. The engine comes as a 3, 4 cylinder and both turbo and non-turbo.

personally I'd give it a miss, would a smaller petrol ride on work? they seem far better priced.

Regards
Daz

P.S and just to comment on what the seller has said about making the mistake of telling the 16yo to check oil and water..... well clearly the 16yo didnt have a clue..... and clearly the mistake was not showing the 16yo the basics of an engine and its operation, I say serves the seller right...

[rijidij]

Thanks Daz,
I hear what you're saying.
Like I said, I would ideally like a diesel zero turn such as a ZD18 or similar, but prices are up there for what I can spend.
I want something with a wider cut and a bit more speed than your average ride on...........I've got Landy projects to work on, I need to limit the time my arse is stuck to a mower :D

Cheers, Murray

Kubota ZD18
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/09/842.jpg

[DazzaTD5]

Its odd.. a few years ago my brother outlaw had an old like 1950 Massey Ferguson tractor with a pto mower hoo haa on it.... it was given with the property, years later he tried selling it, couldnt give it away.... I thought it was a great machine, clean tidy, running and quieter than a Land Rover 110 3.9lt Isuzu :p

Regards
Daz

[Homestar]

We have around 300 3 and 4 cylinder Kubotas in our fleet just in Vic - the biggest issue with hard staring we see is knackered glow plugs. They can be a bitch to start on cold mornings if the glow plugs are on thier way out and even with good ones, can take 2 or 3 glows in extremely cold weather to start.

Sounds like there could be more to it by what's transpired but I thought I'd bung in my 2 cents worth.

Overall, they are a great motor and very reliable and trouble free which is why we use so many of them.

I've got a 3 cylinder Kubota at home on a genset that's done 24,000 hours and still runs like a clock - no oil leaks, takes full load but is a bit smokey and uses a bit of oil when pushed hard now, but hey that's the equivilant of nearly 1,500,000KM in a car that's averaged 65KPH... (yes, constant speed engines live longer, but it's still a nice comparison) :)

[rijidij]

I ended up buying a Scag Wildcat, Zero Turn Mower. A Zero turn was really what I wanted anyway.
I was pretty impressed when I saw this thing in the flesh, everything is heavy duty as it's a commercial quality mower.
As much as I like diesel, most used diesel mowers seem to have a lot more hours on them and still hold a premium price. This Scag has a V twin Kawasaki water cooled engine, 1600 hours and very well looked after. It was used for weekly property maintenance, not heavy commercial use and abuse.
I picked it up for $4000, the previous owner paid $17500 new :eek:
Haven't used it in anger on our new property yet, but gave it a run in our current back yard. It's amazingly maneuverable for it's size (52" cut)

Cheers, Murray

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/09/125.jpg (http://s204.photobucket.com/user/rijidij/media/Misc/Scag-2_zpse4inryik.jpg.html)

[Homestar]

That should do you very nicely Murray - nice buy.