Diesel engine fror 93 rangie ?

[51jay]

Looking for suggestions on the best diesel to go in an auto Rangie Vogue.
I've crossed off the Chev 6.2 or 6.5.
the TD5 onwards would be complicated electrically.
the TD300 seems to be the natural choice but is there anything else out there.
It's currently got a supercharged 3.9L low compression

[Grizzly_Adams]

If the 300tdi can fit then the 2.8ltr powerstroke can fit also.

I believe jason can give you more information on them (he imports them).

[p38arover]

It's probably not an economic thing to do. Sell it and buy a Tdi Disco - or a Td5.

Ron

[51jay]

I don't want a disco...could have got one instead of the rangie. Yes it would have been more economical but economics arn't everything style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

I'll have a look at the 2.8

[nosch]

grizzlys advises best. If I would have to decide again I would go for the 2.8 TGV. Sell the 3.9 to someone need it for offroading and give Jase a call.

Swappimg is same as a 300 Tdi. Watch the homepage of LRH for it.

[DirtyDawg]

economics aren't everything yeah but 93 rangie worth these days bout 12K plus $10k for the diesel and say $2500 for the conversion.
$25000 for a 93 rangie would make it a car you would have to keep for a very long time or you would lose a bucket load when you sell it.

Even a 300TDi are hard to find and even then second hand still fetch a pretty penny.

Personally I wouldn't waste my money down that avenue I would prefer to purchase a vehicle factory made for that type of power plant.

But there is no vehicle I could recommend to replace a Rangie I still miss mine :cry:

[jase]

Your right economics is not everything
Almost anyone buying one of my HS2.8s is ruling out basic economics and doing it because they like thier car, want to keep the car and make it better (you wouldn't do it if you were going to sell it next year)
This can also be said for all (most?) mods you very rearly get your money back (I'm sure we've ll been ther done that style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif )
Yes in many cases the cost to fit this engine is the same as the cars worth (they mostly go into mid 90s or earlier vehicles)
althogh some people who are facing big repair bills on a current engine with a problem find the desision a lot easier to make.
Saying that this is one mod that will increase your cars worth somewhat (provided you find a buyer that appreictes it) Re-spraying, expensive engine mods, custom susp ect don't get you much (if any) more money when you sell than a std car, but how many diesel RRs are around (in aust)
even a diesel disco (not uncommon) is worth a lot more than a V8 disco in same cond
one of the things that pushes a RR value down is they are seen to be heavy on fuel and somewhat mechanically troublesome (no way 8O no "quirks" on any of my LRs style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/ohmy.gif )
having one with good fuel economy good power & torque from a BRAND NEW very reliable engine that will last 300,000kms + has to be a big advantage an worth quite a few $ to the right buyer

That's why I'm putting one in the wife's P38 at x-mas (ok so it will help that I have an engine to demo to people)
The P38 is a $20k car that will get a $10k engine + $2.5k to fit (I won't do myself, No time with work & building a house)
less selling the 4.6 for $? still makes it an expensive exersize
but I'll have a very nice diesel (using 40% less fuel) RR that will have no engine problems for longer than i'll own it style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

Good luck with it whatever way you deside to go
and if you do want any more info on the 2.8 let me know

Jase
HS 2.8 importer style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

PS $10k for engine and $2.5k to fit is a spot on guess
although if you work on your RR yourself you can fit yourself
it is a direct bolt in same as a Tdi

[PhilipA]

For cheaper conversions the Poms like 2.8 Diahatsu motors and conversions are available in UK. The turbo Diahatsu motor is apparently quite a good one.
I think I read an ad just recently in a UK mag for a 3.1 Isuzi kit also( Jackaroo) but these engines have the high pressure injection and apparently give a lot of trouble.
Second hand 200-300 TDI would be easiest. Check Triumph Rover spares in Adelaide. Be careful. One of the members of my club rolled his then tried to start it after upright. Oil in cylinders, noisy from then on.
Regard s Philip A

[D110V8D]

Why crossing off the 6.2/6.5 from your list?

Great motor. Plenty power. No electrical problems.

[LRHybrid100]

I would either do the 300 Tdi / Powerstroke again or even a Isuzu 3 litre out of the last Jackaroos / current Rodeo.

300 Tdi Auto was the best thing I have done - especially after the 3" exhaust!!! style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif 8O style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

LRH

[LRHybrid100]

hey Jase, in this months (December? - I subscribe style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif ) LROI mag there is a write up about a P38a with a "Brazillian" (Powerstroke)

there are now some companies in the UK doing complete kits for all LR models be it V8 / 4 cylinder with Auto / manual.

LRH

[nosch]

guys, don&#96;t believe LRH about an 3" exhaust - in reality it´s only a piece of pipe style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/laugh.gif

Hi LHR :wink:

[LandyAndy]

Hi LRH
I think you will find there are BIG reliability problems with the Rodeo 3ltr TDI.Just locally there are 3 that have had new motors under warranty,another 3 that arent "happy campers".We have a rodeo 3lt TDI at work,heaps of grunt,just started swallowing oil at 40thou Ks/12 months old which is whats happened to others.
Andrew

[Jojo]

The 200 Tdi is a straight fit (on later European models it even was a factory fit option) whereas the 300 Tdi needs some modification (as does the Powerstroke).
Lucky you guys who don't have to consider the newly implemented emission rules over here...

Cheers

[UncleHo]

G'day Folks.
Don't knock the large bore ex-pipes on Diesels, as most deso mechs, will tell you that the larger the pipe the better the motor breathes, the English used the small exhaust pipe trick to limit the Horse-Power of their motors as Horsepower was the way that Rego Tax was calculated, so all english manufactured vehicles had these miniscule pipes to limit horsepower, one of the first things that we did to our Diesel Bedford Buses was to fit 4" pipes and BHP went up by 15-20 and the old Cat D6-8du want up by more it sure has got some grunt now style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif
I opened up the pipe size on the old L/R 2a to 2" and it improved markedly, climbs the "Gateway" in Brisvagas in top gear with a medium load no problems style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif
cheers.

[jase]

I'll have to get me a copy of LROI (off to the newsagent)
the company doing the kits in the UK is M&D
P38 kit sells for something like 5500 pounds strirling (A$13,200) 8O then you have to friegt it in & pay all the import taxes & then GST :x (easy another $3k)

kit is only really
engine (I sell for $10k here inc all taxes)
300Tdi belhousing
300 tdi engine mounts
wiring harness (you only need a starter wire and a fuel soliniod wire, so i'm sure anyone elec minded can sort this out)
nuts bolts and a couple of hoses
I'm sure 99% of people of people could buy engine off me get the parts themselves and save $5k

As the engine block, backend & flywheel is the same as a 300 Tdi (at least the way I order it) it will bolt straight in anywhere a 300 Tdi (or 200tdi or other same pattern 4cyl LR engines) can be bolted style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif


I'm not sure what mods Jojo refers to as req on 300 tdi to fit into RR but as block is almost identical to 200 tdi it can only be bolt on ancillery items?

and yes I agree big pipes on diesels are good 8)

Jase
PS yes powerstokes (and 300tdi engines still for LR) are manufactered in brazil
I can get you a brand new 300tdi if you like but is only a few hundered $$ cheaper than a 2.8 so no one would want one

[sclarke]

If your going to spend $10k then go the Chev V8 Diesel.

Great engine, lots of spares and power is an understatment.

[LRHybrid100]

Originally posted by sclarke
If your going to spend $10k then go the Chev V8 Diesel.

Great engine, lots of spares and power is an understatment.

Why put 1950's technology into a modern LR???

[jase]

exactly
don't be a "yank" and assume BIG (old) is better you are suposed to be "enlightened" remember you are driving a land rrrover (with pommy roll the rrrrs accent) :wink: not a massive leaf spring chev or F250

FYI
from people selling rebuilt "improved" chev diesels 6.2 ltr 155 HP & 285 ft lbs @ 2000RPM (6.5 ltr is slightly higher)

factory offical HS 2.8 TGV specs 135 HP 277 ft lbs @ 1400RPM 8) NOTE the RPM
torque is not that much lower and is at lower more useable RPM (also HALF the weight) style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

from Poms with 2.8 engines in comp trucks
331 ft lbs @ 1300 RPM style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif just by adjusting fueling (and bigger than LR std intercooler)
& this is WITH a 38mm restrictor in the inlet (comp regs)
they claim without the restictor 400 ft lbs 8) style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif 8)

see http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php'showtopic=1946

also chev V8s drink fuel quote from site (guy with Chev in disco) uses 17 ltrs /100kms 8O
taht's NOT good, thats V8 petrol type consumption

Jase

[sclarke]

Originally posted by jase
exactly
don't be a "yank" and assume BIG (old) is better you are suposed to be "enlightened" remember you are driving a land rrrover (with pommy roll the rrrrs accent) :wink: not a massive leaf spring chev or F250

FYI
from people selling rebuilt "improved" chev diesels 6.2 ltr 155 HP & 285 ft lbs @ 2000RPM (6.5 ltr is slightly higher)

factory offical HS 2.8 TGV specs 135 HP 277 ft lbs @ 1400RPM 8) NOTE the RPM
torque is not that much lower and is at lower more useable RPM (also HALF the weight) style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif

from Poms with 2.8 engines in comp trucks
331 ft lbs @ 1300 RPM style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif just by adjusting fueling (and bigger than LR std intercooler)
& this is WITH a 38mm restrictor in the inlet (comp regs)
they claim without the restictor 400 ft lbs 8) style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif 8)

see http://forums.lr4x4.com/index.php'showtopic=1946

also chev V8s drink fuel quote from site (guy with Chev in disco) uses 17 ltrs /100kms 8O
taht's NOT good, thats V8 petrol type consumption

Jase

Dont get me wrong, nothing wrong with new 2.8's.

But 50 years old?? mmmmm What is the rover V8???

Come on. $$ is $$ if you can save a Buck and make it nice then you do it.

Ive seen a V8 Diesel Fender and its impressive.

[jase]

one of the guys at macnamara diffs has a V8 deisel fender and says he was conned, he pulled out the V8 petrol and had it fitted
HE claims uses just as much fuel and is no quicker cause its too haevy
it really turned me off the V8 diesel

that was 2-3 yrs ago before I got interested (heard about) the 2.8

Jase

[one_iota]

A couple of points:

1. A V8 diesel consumption at 17l / 100 km is debatable:

D110V8D claims 12-13.5 litres per 100 k's:

http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modules/...0fe22eedf605b82 (http://www.outerlimits4x4.com/PHP_Modules/phpBB2/viewtopic.php't=58512&start=30&sid=e66e0d8bba0e41dc30fe22eedf605b82)

2. Have people heard a V8 diesel? 8O

It isn't for me but I can appreciate the appeal.

[sclarke]

Originally posted by one_iota


2. Have people heard a V8 diesel? 8O

It isn't for me but I can appreciate the appeal.


Ahh trucks use them..... hence the availability......

[one_iota]

Originally posted by sclarke+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(sclarke)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-one_iota


2. Have people heard a V8 diesel? 8O

It isn't for me but I can appreciate the appeal.


Ahh trucks use them..... hence the availability......[/b][/quote]

Cousin_John is putting the 6.5 GMC in his County and it is sweet.

A Tdi doesn't seem quite the same.

[nosch]

There was an article about a "brazilian" - conversion in the last LROI. Cannot post it, because I read in a newspapaer shop in the railwaystation. Perhaps someone has possibilty to ask for publishishing permission to put it here. That was interesting in mentioning troubles with the clutch because of too much torque espacially after let Jeremy Fearn do his job on it fitting a larger intercooler and doing the injection pump. After fitting a bigger clutch that engine should have spend more pleasure than the V8 before.

This all is different when you like automatic gearboxes. If the original was for example a V8 Range with a ZF, you have to change some parts in the ZF (don´t know them by now). I wonder how that works out in a P38. The ZF is different and has an own ECU. I wonder if one has to change or upgrade the programm in it to match the diesel. Might be easier than to change hardware in the old ZF.

[51jay]

Well, thanks for all the info guys
I had a brand new ex us military chev 6.2 that I was going to put in my 80 Rangie. It is a huge very heavy engine and I decided not to. My mate at Ipswich 4x4 Specialists loves them he's put them in several different 4x4s....but not for me.

can someone post more info on the HS 2.8 I know nothing about it.
Would I just need a tdi auto bell housing or is the rangie mainshaft different too.

It would just be cost of parts for me I can do the actual swap myself .

ps....anyone interested in a 3.9L with Eaton supercharger and chipped ECU style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

[LRHybrid100]

Originally posted by 51jay
ps....anyone interested in a 3.9L with Eaton supercharger and chipped ECU style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

How much???

[51jay]

Originally posted by LRHybrid100+--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(LRHybrid100)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-51jay
ps....anyone interested in a 3.9L with Eaton supercharger and chipped ECU style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/biggrin.gif

How much???[/b][/quote]

I don't know as yet. The conversion was done by Graham Cooper Automotive in Sydney.
The general idea is to sell the 3.9L and buy a diesel. I want it completed befor the Nat meet at Maree next June.

[jase]

for more info on HS 2.8 there is user group on yahoo
yahoo . groups HS 2.8 tdi (or something like that)
or email me jstables@holmwoodhighgate.com.au with any questions and I'll give you the answers

basically the HS 2.8 is an "evolution" of the 300 tdi
it comes from the same factory (in brazil) that still makes the 300 tdi for LR (300Tdi still goes to 3rd world & militery markets where LR don't want electronic Td5)
Appartently the story I was given is the 2.8 was developed for LR (for the disco 2) but LR decided it was too powerful 8O and bought the TD5 from BMW instead style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/sad.gif
anyway the brazilians sold the egine to ford instead where it is used in the ranger (south american vesrion of the F150)
This engine comes from the same factory that makes the 7.3 litre ford engine for the aust f150 as well as many others check out http://www.nav-international.com.br/defaul...lt.asp?Idioma=2 (http://www.nav-international.com.br/default.asp?Idioma=2)

I know $10k is a whole lot of money to spend but don't forget this engine is 100% complete & BRAND new in a box not used (NOT reco) it is "fully dressed" (= complete) with NEW turbo, starter motor, altrrnator everything, so unklike a reco engine that may save you a few dollars up front (but has 2nd hand parts)
with this one you shouldn't need to change anything but oil & filters for a LOOOONG time
(only thing missing off engine is A/C compressor as appartently lots of other counrtys don't want it ??)

Jase

[51jay]

Thanks for that Jase. I checked the site and got the basic info.
It is expensive initially but there are advantages.
How does it match up with the RR ZF autobox? and the RR engine mounts?
A/C is definately needed. Can you supply bracket and compressor?
Does "everything " include the injection unit?

[Jojo]

The Powerstroke (2.8l Tdi) was scrapped since it did not meet the emission limits enforced in most European countries over the last years. That's why LR chose the Td5 which, incidentally, is not a BMW development but a very own LR product (or could you honestly imagine a German engineer constructing an engine with five cylinders and only four glow plugs???).

<div class='quotetop'>QUOTE</div><div class='quotemain'>I'm not sure what mods Jojo refers to as req on 300 tdi to fit into RR but as block is almost identical to 200 tdi it can only be bolt on ancillery items?[/b][/quote]

The 200 Tdi will fit straight onto the gear box while the 300 Tdi will need an adapter plate (or the R380 -box), and I trust some engine mounts will need to be modified as well.

[p38arover]

Originally posted by Jojo
That's why LR chose the Td5 which, incidentally, is not a BMW development but a very own LR product

That's what I thought, too. I know a lot of motoring journalists say it is a BMW motor - like they say BMW designed the D2 and the P38A, etc.

Ron

[jase]

oops :oops:
I thought the td5 was a BMW engine? I know BMW didn't have any stake in LR at the time but car companys buying componants (esp engines) off each other is not uncommon, sorry my mistake

The 2.8 is euro II emission, not 100% but i'm pretty sure that would have been the highest emmison rating at the time
perhaps they (LR) were worried about not being able to meet future emissons (2.8 not being electronic)
Before anyone asks there is NO EPA requiremnts to meet conevrting to diesel in aust and they (EPA) are more than happy as this engine is euro II unlike many diesels used for conversions that are not emission tested at all

Jase

[51jay]

Well it looks like i've found a TDI 300 and all the associated bits and pieces so the swap is scheduled for last 2 weeks in Jan....nice start to the new year.. https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[Reads90]

What you want to do is fit a 300 TDi engine. Easy to do and not too many electrics. And they put a 300 TDi into the range rover at the factory (we had them in the UK along with a 200 TDi rangie). So you can order (special order here) the exhaust and bits to do it off the shelf at Land Rover. But the secret to fitting a 300 TDI into a classic range rover is to put a 200 TDi disco auto biox to it . Then they really fly and i mean fly. The 300 TDi auto is crap with the 300 TDi engine . Where as the 200 TDi auto is lower gearing for the less power of the 200 TDi engine. Put this on to a 300 TDi and the combination is fantasic. But will not lose top end will still push along at 140k plus.
I have done this to several range rovers in the Uk as feul there is getting to $3 a ltr
Hope this helps

[51jay]

( Quote Reads90 "What you want to do is fit a 300 TDi engine.")

?? That is exactly what I am doing !

Thanks for the info on the 200 gearbox. do you have any info on the difference in the gear ratios??

How about the transfer case? what is your preference here? the box in my 93 Vogue does not have manual central lock. However I have an 87 ZF box and transfer in my old RR and it does have it.

What is the transfere box found behind the 200 ZF auto?.

I would have liked to use the HS 2.8 but the extra $5000 was the stopper.

the 300 TDI will get fabricated exhaust manifold and larger downpipe, also maybe larger intercooler. Haven't researched the turbo yet but the one used on the HS 2.8 sounds like a good idea