ARB Deluxe bullbar fails again

[Summiitt]

Has anyone had issues with the later style deluxe bullbar rotating on the chassis after an animal strike? Mine has now come back onto the gaurds,grill and bonnet 3 times, each time I have removed the bar, got it squared up again, new bolts and torqued up.. last nights hit wasn't a big Roo at 80km/h. The top of the bar came back about 40-50mm towards the bonnet. Both gaurds, grill and bonnet are all damaged but I'm reluctant to get the damage fixed and put the same style bar on again if this is yet again the outcome..ARB in Canberra have taken photos and agree it shouldn't be happening..

[Vern]

Are all the bolt holes and bolts of the same diameter?.

[lump_a_charcoal]

Sounds like it isn't mounted correctly.

[justinc]

The later arb bar is too close to the body in my opinion. I have been fitting the early version that suits airconditioned models from 2002 on ( and county) to avoid this. And yes the bar doesn't sound like it is mounted correctly.

Jc

[weeds]

Wasn't there a thread in this a little while ago......I'm sure I posted on it after mounting photos were posted up. Cannot find on the iPhone.

[Northy]

Yeah somethings up, I've hit a big male doing 110km/h and there was no damage bar a bent number plate.

[Summiitt]

I agree, something isn't right, but this is the second bar fitted, and the third failure during a hit, surely 3 different fitters can't get it wrong?

[ramblingboy42]

I have a feeling you will find it's not the bullbar but your mounting holes.

You can buy close tolerance bolts but you may need to weld new tubes into your existing mounting holes by the sound of it.

I would say , (only suggesting) that you may have used too high a grade of bolt in your first bar and instead of sacrificing the bolt upon impact the chassis has been compromised.

This is a problem many homies have by using too high a grade of mounting bolt which is actually stronger than the chassis.

You should not use 8.8 grade bolts, perhaps not even 6.5 , but a standard hi tensile bolt.

In effect the bolt should begin to shear before it damages the chassis.

After all my long winded reply it might be prudent to remove your bar and check to see if your mounting holes have been elongated from impact.

Put your bolts in and see how much movement they have in the chassis and also the bull bar.

Any movement you have allows the bull to amplify that movement in a hit.

Hope this is helpful....I have been through it on my D2 previously.

[Homestar]

I was taught that the correct way to stop a bar rotating like that was that after it is mounted and the mounting bolts tightened and you are happy with its position, to drill and tap a hole (10 to 12mm) though the mounting plate on each side and through the chassis, then install the last bolt in the threaded hole - as it is tapped and the bolt takes up the hole size exactly, it will stop rotation of the bar in all but a hit that is going to damage your chassis anyway.

I've done this to the last couple of bars I've installed and they are rock solid - even after I gave a stump a good nudge with one.

[Tote]

My 2016 ARB bar has this crosswise bolt as part of the installation.

Regards,
Tote

[Sirocco]

How many bolts are holding your bar on? It should be 6. 4 vertically in the original bumper holes and 2 horizontally through existing holes in the chassis rail. I can't see how it can rotate with the 2 bolts through the chassis rails.

G

[Tombie]

Can you please post pics of the mounting brackets on your vehicle.

From outside side view and from outside forward to the bar.

[Dorian]

Pictures of mounting pionts of an ARB bar that I put on around May 2013.

Did a lot of business around Moree to St George doing cotton gin refirbs.
The first cotton season I had the Defer, I hit Roos about a dozen times.
Two of them were big Roos at 100+K, foot still on the accelerator. :o
They just jumped out of the darkness.

Luckly all of them were front on and not into the side of the car. But the bar never flinched and had no damage to either bar or vehicle. Must say that my bull bar has paid for itself several times over. Oddly enough it did collect a lot of ears

Mount from the outside

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=114188&d=1474357782

Mount from the inside

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=114187&d=1474357782

Bar was installed by UV4x4 at Enoggerra , hope this helps

Cheers Glen

[Tombie]

Thank you for those. Now if we can see Summiitts mounts we may be able to see what has taken place.

[Summiitt]

Thanks for the pic, mines mounted exactly the same. The first bar was fitted from new and rotated, this bar, also new, was fitted onto a brand new chassis so I'm doubtful it's a chassis issue.
Bolts were supplied on all occasions by ARB. I'm going to remove the bar and make sure the bolts used are as per specs. In the last hit, it sheared off the top horizontal bolt.
My only theory was that when the new chassis was fitted, the bar mounts weren't torqued correctly, bar slightly loose, a hit and the damage was done. I'm off road/dirt roads 70% of the time so anything that can come loose normally will, and my other 4 defenders have no issues with ARB bars, 2 in particular are getting 15-20 animal strikes a week between them.. this problem is however testing my patience with the product..

[Tombie]

When fitted the horizontal bolt (top) is drilled on a larger diameter and is a snug fit.

Prior to that the whole bracket is to be forced down at the front and tightened.

I'll put money on it that the whole thing hasn't been fitted or torqued correctly.

[Summiitt]

I pulled the bar off this afternoon, and a few issues became apparent. The top horizontal hole on the chassis is elongated so much, it looks as though it has been drilled twice..which is what I'm thinking, and on the lower horizontal bolts, there were no washers against the steering guard, meaning the bolt had partially pulled through the gaurd..the chassis adaptor mounts only have a slight bend in the plating on one side, so can be reused.
2 options, drill new top bolts, and larger bottom bolts with washers, or try an old style 'commercial bar' from pre 08. The guys at ARB agree that this mounting system is crap compared to the previous style and the bar sits too close to the body.

[strangy]

I pulled the bar off this afternoon, and a few issues became apparent. The top horizontal hole on the chassis is elongated so much, it looks as though it has been drilled twice..which is what I'm thinking, and on the lower horizontal bolts, there were no washers against the steering guard, meaning the bolt had partially pulled through the gaurd..the chassis adaptor mounts only have a slight bend in the plating on one side, so can be reused.
2 options, drill new top bolts, and larger bottom bolts with washers, or try an old style 'commercial bar' from pre 08. The guys at ARB agree that this mounting system is crap compared to the previous style and the bar sits too close to the body.
Pretty clear your problem from the pics.
Alternative option which some wont like but anyway...
Fit up the brackets with one bolt to the correct position and determine the actual correct centre.
Drill the dodgy holes oversize to suit a suitable piece of tube insert cut to the width of the chassis rail. eg tube ID for correct bolt size and drill for whatever the tube OD size is.

Once drilled this should give you a good fit and let you tap in the tube to the correct position. Weld the tube/s in place effectively creating a similar to factory style mount with crush protection and ensuring the bar wont pivot as per the original poor fitting.
Some wont like the idea of welding to the chassis but IMO is a permanent fix which isnt in a structurally critical position and the welds not of significant type or position to cause an issue.

[weeds]

Pretty clear your problem from the pics.
Alternative option which some wont like but anyway...
Fit up the brackets with one bolt to the correct position and determine the actual correct centre.
Drill the dodgy holes oversize to suit a suitable piece of tube insert cut to the width of the chassis rail. eg tube ID for correct bolt size and drill for whatever the tube OD size is.

Once drilled this should give you a good fit and let you tap in the tube to the correct position. Weld the tube/s in place effectively creating a similar to factory style mount with crush protection and ensuring the bar wont pivot as per the original poor fitting.
Some wont like the idea of welding to the chassis but IMO is a permanent fix which isnt in a structurally critical position and the welds not of significant type or position to cause an issue.



I was thinking along the same lines......fixed for good.

[DiscoMick]

Or insist ARB replace the bar, since it was apparently incorrectly mounted, possibly drilled twice, and without washers?

Sent from my SM-G900I using AULRO mobile app

[mox]

I wonder why so far no mention of a way of considerably reducing the tendency of bars to twist back when impact occurs high up. ie Tubular stays from at least two thirds of the way up the side posts with the other ends connected to outriggers just in front of the doors on each side. These can continue back as part of side steps to spread rearward load from any impact on more outriggers from chassis. I presumed ARB has made some of them on other types of vehicles but so far probably have not made any of the ones seen on a Defender.


The weak point with this setup is something that should be relatively easy to fix after a very heavy impact and before it bends outriggers. ie The bend downwards after the stay has passed behind the wheel, where it should be above the guard cutout. Meanwhile it makes the bullbar far less likely to bend back from the chassis area when the top bar takes a strong hit from eg a cow or a big roo.

[Tombie]

Agree in part.

A cow won't make a difference - your front end is gone!

If the bar had been fitted properly it wouldn't have moved. That's just a bad install..

[Summiitt]

Yep, that's the way I'm thinking, but not sure if I will use that location again as a brace, or plate that section and use a new hole. I've got no issues welding the chassis, as that top section is bloody thin, whereas the bottom section of chassis is double plated. In any case, I'm really leaning towards fitting up an old style commercial bar with some new bracing bolts, then bolted up fully to the TJM scrub bars that are already fitted..

[Summiitt]

I wonder why so far no mention of a way of considerably reducing the tendency of bars to twist back when impact occurs high up. ie Tubular stays from at least two thirds of the way up the side posts with the other ends connected to outriggers just in front of the doors on each side. These can continue back as part of side steps to spread rearward load from any impact on more outriggers from chassis. I presumed ARB has made some of them on other types of vehicles but so far probably have not made any of the ones seen on a Defender.


The weak point with this setup is something that should be relatively easy to fix after a very heavy impact and before it bends outriggers. ie The bend downwards after the stay has passed behind the wheel, where it should be above the guard cutout. Meanwhile it makes the bullbar far less likely to bend back from the chassis area when the top bar takes a strong hit from eg a cow or a big roo.

The impact on the last 2 occasions was down low, around the number plate height, so any rolling action of the bar simply shouldn't have happened. Bad install is the issue which possibly wouldn't have showed up in 90% of cases but given what I expect of this ute and its accessories as a work vehicle then it's pretty annoying..

[MrLandy]

Someone on this forum has made HD spacers to push the new model ARB bar forward - looked good...can't find the thread sorry.

Shocking how elongated those holes are! I wonder if anyone else has had that happen? Could it be your new chassis? ...interesting that you say your other two vehicles have had no troubles and many roo strikes...same ARB bar or older type?

I feel for you Summit, hope you get it sorted ok.

[Surrufus]

Someone on this forum has made HD spacers to push the new model ARB bar forward - looked good...can't find the thread sorry.

Shocking how elongated those holes are! I wonder if anyone else has had that happen? Could it be your new chassis? ...interesting that you say your other two vehicles have had no troubles and many roo strikes...same ARB bar or older type?

I feel for you Summit, hope you get it sorted ok.

I'd be keen on these spacers too!

[Summiitt]

Just got the bar back on, after looking at my other/non puma Defenders, I decided to bolt the top horizontal bolt right thru the chassis with a 45mm crush tube that I machined up to be a snug fit on a 10mm bolt (8.8grade), then welded a 4mm plate on the outside of the chassis to take up the gap difference between the top of the chassis and the bottom. The bolt passes right through the chassis now instead of just one wall.
These deluxe bars are a really poor design in terms of fitment. They provide too much room for adjustments and not enough strength in the chassis adapters.
Anyway the next Animal strike is only a matter of time away so I will hold my breath that I've sorted things out