Clutch

[whitehillbilly64]

Looking at getting and new clutch plate, spigot bearing. ( how do you change it ) And thrust bearing.
Had the flywheel skimmed, and suspect its original clutch plate, with the 26,000 thou on the speedo, so am going to use the same pressure plate.
What brand would you use.
Thanks

whitehillbilly

[JDNSW]

Spigot bearing - the old one is usually removed by turning a drift to be a neat fit inside it, filling the cavity with grease, and then tapping the drift into the cavity, pushing the bush out.

As to brand of clutch plate - it is fifty years since I've fitted a clutch to a Series Landrover, so my info is a bit out of date. Last one I fitted from memory came in a Repco box, but heaven knows who made it. I doubt there will be problems with any you get.

John

[whitehillbilly64]

Thanks John.
Will call in and see what repco can get them for.

whitehillbilly

[Aaron IIA]

Which Land Rover is this for? The thrust bearing can be inside the gearbox. If it is, it is probably still serviceable.

Aaron

[whitehillbilly64]

Thanks Aaron.
Series 3, so not oiled by gearbox like the earlier ones.

Whitehillbilly

[mick88]

Billy I think you will get a thrust bearing for a series 3 at your local Bearing Service, I got one a few years back no problems at all. It had to be ordered, but delivery was only 2-3 days. Check your bearing carrier that it is still ok, some are plastic. There are also a couple of small clips that hold the bearing onto the carrier. You may get new ones with the bearing, maybe a new carrier as well. Also make sure the fork is not worn down paper thin where it pivots. Remember to either soak or force oil through the new spigot bush before you fit it.


Cheers, Mick.

[whitehillbilly64]

Thrust bearing.
NSK FTC5200 (G)?

Whitehillbilly

[Blknight.aus]

you replace the spigot bearing by drifting it out with oil and grease.

you can get them out with a fat easy out or by chiseling carefully as they are only sintered brass.

to hydraulic it out.

grab a socket (preferably a deep reach socket) that just fits inside the bearing. If you get within 1/2 a mm or so you can wrap it with electrical tape till its a just fit.

pack the socket with paper that you've wet down with grease or oil put an extension bar or socket drive adaptor into the socket to seal it up.

pack as much grease into the bearing and cavity as you can put the socket into the bearing and whack it with your favorite big hammer.
when you hit it make sure the engine is well anchored or the nose is up against something substantial. Hit it like you're trying to compress the crank.

[whitehillbilly64]

Thanks for all the replies.
What is the reason for soak or force oil through Bush before fitting ?

Whitehillbilly

[mick88]

Because as Blacknight said, it is made of sintered bronze.
Bronze that is full of little air pockets, a bit like honeycombe.
It will be dry when you get it, so it needs the oil for lubrication when the clutch is depressed, hence the reason to impregnate it with oil (not grease).
The oil you put it in it will be the last time it is ever lubricated.


Cheers, Mick.

[whitehillbilly64]

Thanks gents.
Very helpful as always.

whitehillbilly

[1950landy]

The best way to oil the spogot bush is to place the bush on your thumb & fill it with oil then squese the open ende between b your thumb & finger untill you can see the oil start to swet out of the sides of the bush.

[gromit]

Bronze that is full of little air pockets, a bit like honeycombe.
It will be dry when you get it, so it needs the oil for lubrication

Sintered bronze bushes are made from compressed and heated powder, a bond occurs where the powder particles touch. They are normally pre-lubed but a bit extra won't be a problem.

I pressed a couple into some timber (part of a rocking horse) and all the lubricant leeched out into the timber ! The next one I made I varnished the inside of the hole before pressing them in.

Sintered Bronze Bushes, Sintered Metal Bearings, Manufacturer Of Sintered Bronze Bushes, Mumbai, India (http://www.oilitebushes.com/sintered-bronze-bushes.html)

Other parts can be made by sintering powders, I remember years ago seeing diesel rocker arms being made from powder.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N4-kfSD6XJI


How about gears made from powder

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnR10rTk4BA




Colin

[JDNSW]

My lawnmower has, I believe, sintered iron gears in the gearbox. These could be made accurately to size and shape by sintering, where if cast would need machining. After or during sintering the gears were strengthened by heating (in a non-oxidising atmosphere) to above the melting point of copper with a copper disc sitting on top of the gear. This melted and was absorbed by the sintered iron.

These sintered gears are supposed to be about as strong as cast iron, and much stronger and better wearing than diecast alloy, which would have been the alternative.

John

[1950landy]

If you don't oil it before fitting it will dry out & stare squealing latter on & the box will have to come out again. I was a motor trade it is common practice to impregnate them with oil.

[whitehillbilly64]

Hi,
What is the purpose of the little plastic U clip the connects the clutch arm to the thrust bearing.
The centre of the clutch arm pivots on a ball in a plastic bush. Under where it sits, is a brass washer, brass stop ????
Also a spring clip held with a 7/16 bolt.
When I pulled the arm out an inch washer was still attached to the centre pivot ball.
Does this washer fit on top of the spring clip, or between the plastic bush, under the spring clip.
Hope above makes sense ????

whitehillbilly

[Blknight.aus]

the plastic clip is an assembly aid and helps keep the arm on the throwout when the clutch is released

the brass washer provides the backing to the plastic bush that the pivot ball sits in. In the event of the plastic bush failing it provides a softer metal so the ball doesnt get chewed up and sticky.

the clip holds the fork over the ball, when removing the arm you remove the small bolt first then the clip then pull the arm off the ball.

The washer sits between the fork and the clip, adjustment of the arm on the ball is achieved by fitting a different thickness brass shim for the large adjustment and then finely sanding the back of the plastic cup.

[whitehillbilly64]

Thanks Dave.
Could someone please tell me the difference between a S11a pressure plate and a S3 one.
The clutch plate on the new one is 9mm smaller in length at the spline centre, the distance being made up, as a triangular thrust plate is 9mm thick, which the thrust bearing pushes onto, not directly on the springs like the old one
I have a kit from Repco, but it looks like S11a from online kits.
I really also need to check what my 2 1\4 petrol motor and gearbox are S3 ones.
Will take some pics and post one numbers.
Thanks.

Whitehillbilly

[whitehillbilly64]

some old and new differences

[whitehillbilly64]

Thrust Bearing.
Has the dip in the thrust bearing, where the arm sits, on the old one machined, or made by the arm wearing the dip, as there is none on the new one ????
Would a good with no wear, plastic pivot bush be better than replacing it with an aftermarket one, also the original plastic U clip over a AM replacement.
Thanks.

whitehillbilly

[whitehillbilly64]

Series 3 ????
engine 902221940
Gbox 90323269A
Could the two different numbers, have been matched up as a pair originally ????
They were together in a series 3.
The motor was on std everything, with hardly any wear, still to check Gbox.

whitehillbilly

[mick88]

Billy the pressure plate on the left is s3, the other is for s2A with the thrust bearing mechanism built into the front of the gearbox.
I am not sure about the friction plate question you asked, but it makes sense that the shorter boss may be for the s2A so it doesn't foul on the pressure plate.
As for your thrust bearing and it's carrier, if it's all in reasonable nick, once it is together it will be right. How many miles do you intend to do in the old girl? Will it be your daily drive?
As for the engine and gearbox numbers others will have more idea, but I think with CKD vehicles there was not any specific matching during assembly.


Cheers, Mick.

[whitehillbilly64]

Hi Mick,
Thanks for the reply
Daily driver, or 77 250 Honda.
The kit is what 3 suppliers suggested at Repco.
I know Geoff well, for many years he has spent time and effort to get the correct parts for my vehicles.
The Kit was supplied with the S3 thrust bearing type.
Two kit available, one upto Series 2, the other S2a/S3.
I know it looks different from the old s3 pressure plate, hence my concerns of suitability and fitment. :confused:
I have to try to fit motor to gearbox. I any problems it can be changed.
If it nips together, guess should be OK ????
Noticed no slave cylinder adjustment, on my s3, so would the bleed and master adjust, set things in the correct place.

whitehillbilly

[1950landy]

If it does nor have a return spring & no adjuster on the leaver than it is self adjuating.

[JDNSW]

The clutch slave cylinder is self adjusting.

John

[whitehillbilly64]

Well gents,
If its self adjusting, it should fit ????

whitehillbilly