Oil Catch Can for D4

[Garfield]

I realise this may have been done before, but has any one instaledl oil catch cans to late model Discovery 4 ? If so, any recommendation on a suitable oil catch can. Obviously concerned with carbon build up in engine - which seems to affect many diesel 4WD's - particularly older models thou ....

[Tombie]

Not a big issue - bigger issue is to have your EGR closed and disabled.

(Just don't mention that on the Caravanning forum) [emoji48]

[Hugh Jars]

I chatted with the bloke (Bruce, I think) from Davis, and he reckons the breather hoses are at the back of the engine, hence only easily accessible with the body off. He also reckons the space is very tight regardless, but said he would look into it when he does his next body-off with the D4.

[Garfield]

I chatted with the bloke (Bruce, I think) from Davis, and he reckons the breather hoses are at the back of the engine, hence only easily accessible with the body off. He also reckons the space is very tight regardless, but said he would look into it when he does his next body-off with the D4.



Thanks Hugh Jars . I'll be interested in what Davis Performance thinks - as there is much chat in 4WD magazines where manifolds are getting carbon up - particularly on older model diesels - which obviously affects performance. Or are the magazines just pumping this issue up to support catch can manufactures/retailers ?
Do fully synthetic oils have less carbon ( sort ) build up ?

[LandyAndy]

Thanks Hugh Jars . I'll be interested in what Davis Performance thinks - as there is much chat in 4WD magazines where manifolds are getting carbon up - particularly on older model diesels - which obviously affects performance. Or are the magazines just pumping this issue up to support catch can manufactures/retailers ?
Do fully synthetic oils have less carbon ( sort ) build up ?

Synthetic oils are definitely cleaner.
Look up Pro-Vent on AULRO,many of us fitted them to out D2/Deefer TD5's,there is lots of info posted.
Japanese diesels are much dirtier internally than ours,probably why the mags are onto them,they are needed!!!!!
Andrew

[Garfield]

Synthetic oils are definitely cleaner.
Look up Pro-Vent on AULRO,many of us fitted them to out D2/Deefer TD5's,there is lots of info posted.
Japanese diesels are much dirtier internally than ours,probably why the mags are onto them,they are needed!!!!!
Andrew



Yes, most of the magazines like 4WD Action, 4x4 Australia, Overlander just concentrate on the old and new Japanese 4WD's. Which new 4WDs in the current market, except Japanese and LR, have low range gear boxes ? Not many !

[Tombie]

Yes, most of the magazines like 4WD Action, 4x4 Australia, Overlander just concentrate on the old and new Japanese 4WD's. Which new 4WDs in the current market, except Japanese and LR, have low range gear boxes ? Not many !



Think you're mixing up your 4wd and AWDs there..(as commonly defined in Australia).. [emoji41]

[isuzurover]

Firstly, "catch cans" are largely useless on TD engines, and therefore a waste of money.

Properly designed closed crankcase ventilation (CCV) filters however are another matter.

Whether it is worth fitting one is another matter, and largely depends on how long you plan to keep your vehicle.

Basically when emissions legislation mandated that heavy diesels could no longer use open crankcase vent systems they all needed CCV filters otherwise inter/after coolers would clog and turbochargers would die a rapid death.

This is largely due to soot deposits in the turbo(s) (from sooty oil) rather than any other material in the oil.

I have been commissioned to do a comparative test of common CCV and catch can systems on the market - I will post the results here once they have been released.

[Garfield]

Firstly, "catch cans" are largely useless on TD engines, and therefore a waste of money.

Properly designed closed crankcase ventilation (CCV) filters however are another matter.

Whether it is worth fitting one is another matter, and largely depends on how long you plan to keep your vehicle.

Basically when emissions legislation mandated that heavy diesels could no longer use open crankcase vent systems they all needed CCV filters otherwise inter/after coolers would clog and turbochargers would die a rapid death.

This is largely due to soot deposits in the turbo(s) (from sooty oil) rather than any other material in the oil.

I have been commissioned to do a comparative test of common CCV and catch can systems on the market - I will post the results here once they have been released.


Thanks isuzurover. I'll be interested in the results of your tests for CCV filters. I am not an expert in this area. Do the D4 DTV6 already have a CCV filter, or can you fit one ?


p.s. plan to keep my D4 for at least another 4 years till it runs out of warranty.

[Tombie]

If you're only keeping it 4-5 years don't do anything.. no point... [emoji6]

I would also only service it at the factory services if that's your intention..

[dalil]

Hi, I have installed Flash lube catch can in my 2013 D4, it actually works. On 600km trip the draining hose was full of oil so CCV doesn't work. I don't know how long i will keep my car, but if i decide to hold on few more years ;););)

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[isuzurover]

Hi, I have installed Flash lube catch can in my 2013 D4, it actually works. On 600km trip the draining hose was full of oil so CCV doesn't work. I don't know how long i will keep my car, but if i decide to hold on few more years ;););)

...

The Flashlube product is made by MANN+HUMMEL for Don Kyatt (Flashlube).

[Hugh Jars]

Dalil,
How did you get to the breather pipe? I was led to believe they're at the rear of the engine, and therefore inaccessible with the body on.
Thanx.

[Garfield]

Hi, I have installed Flash lube catch can in my 2013 D4, it actually works. On 600km trip the draining hose was full of oil so CCV doesn't work. I don't know how long i will keep my car, but if i decide to hold on few more years ;););)

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I too would be interested how you were able to fit the oil catch can :o

[Tombie]

Factory separation-
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/11/963.jpg

[dalil]

Sorry for late reply, i just got back from Vic. High country.
I got few photos, it may help.
I disconnect hose at the crankcase separator - Just behind oil filter ( bypass pipe that is in back of the engine) and connect PVC hose that go to Catch can "IN". Return "Out"go down to the other side of the bypassed pipe just before primary turbo. You can access by removing aluminium cover in left hand wheel arch.
Dali

[dalil]

Sketch how I modify factory breather.
Dali

[rar110]

Do you drain the oil manually?

[Hugh Jars]

Outstanding. Thanks dalil :)

[dalil]

I drain it manually approx. every 1000km, or after long trip like last weekend
850 km.
Dali

[rar110]

This could be a good option for the tdv8 L322. Here's what the intake manifold looks like after 250,000km.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/11/902.jpghttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/11/903.jpghttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/11/904.jpg

I haven't checked it in the last 5000km to see what impact disabling the EGR has had.

[PerthDisco]

This could be a good option for the tdv8 L322. Here's what the intake manifold looks like after 250,000km.


I pulled my MAP sensor out over the weekend while having a look at the coolant pipe. It had a lot of goop on it compared to last time I looked.

I fished in the manifold hole with a flat screwdriver and could feel heaps of goop some of which I extracted. It is seriously messy stuff.

What I want to know is if a long highway trip such as what I have done aids in clearing it out or makes no difference.

With so many LRs employed in driving to the shops and back or school and back for wifey makes me wonder what condition they are in when turned over at the end of the 3 year lease?

[isuzurover]

...

What I want to know is if a long highway trip such as what I have done aids in clearing it out or makes no difference.

...

It will help clean carbon from the engine (e.g. pistons) and exhaust but not the intake. Diesel soot is stable until 550oC. DPFs have catalysts that lower that temperature to around 350oC.

What will happen with intake deposits is the oil will slowly evaporate and leave the soot and heavier oil additives behind. This doesn't really hurt the intake ducts but can damage turbos and block intercoolers.

[rar110]

It's probably worth it then. I'm thinking about taking your provent off the 4BD1 and putting it on the tdv8.

[Tombie]

Most of the muck in those Pics is EGR...

[rar110]

I took the elbow hose off the driver side bank. Quite a bit of oil coated the inside but no EGR soot. The inside of the intercooler and turbo must be coated in oil.

[Grentarc]

Most of the muck in those Pics is EGR...
You get the build up of EGR soot because it mixes with the condensed oil vapors - get rid of either the CCV or the EGR, and you don't get that build up. Disable both and your intake should stay sparkling clean!

[Tombie]

You get the build up of EGR soot because it mixes with the condensed oil vapors - get rid of either the CCV or the EGR, and you don't get that build up. Disable both and your intake should stay sparkling clean!



Exactly [emoji6]

[Pugrot]

I have been advised to fit 2 catch cans to my vehicle because it has twin turbos. Is this fact or fiction as I would have thought one would just be fitted to primary turbo. Not sure there is enough room for 2 let alone 1.

[DiscoJeffster]

I have been advised to fit 2 catch cans to my vehicle because it has twin turbos. Is this fact or fiction as I would have thought one would just be fitted to primary turbo. Not sure there is enough room for 2 let alone 1.

Sigh. It has nothing to do with the number of turbos. It’s fitted to the rocker covers and recovers any oil within the crank case before it enters the intake. You may be surprised to know your engine has one built into it from the factory in the centre of the engine in the V.

Most people don’t bother fitting aftermarket ones on the Discovery engines.

[rar110]

I had thoughts of fitting a provent after the factory crank case vent filter in the 3.6 tdv8. The CCV filter vents to the suction side (like most turbo setups incl my turboed 4BD1) of the driver side turbo. But now the EGR is retired all that’s left is a film of oil. No soot. So pretty much lost interest in the idea.

[Lukeis]

I have a 2.7 2011 D4
i have read a number of post discussing the EGR and it seems those in the know have done something about theirs so I’m leaning towards the same.

Does my car just need the software patch or is that a hardware change as well?
Also, did you then take steps to clean the existing intake etc afterwards? If so, which areas should specifically should be cleaned

i have 130,000km onthe clock

[ndrew]

I have a 2.7 2011 D4
i have read a number of post discussing the EGR and it seems those in the know have done something about theirs so I’m leaning towards the same.

Does my car just need the software patch or is that a hardware change as well?

You’ll need the blanking plate AND an ECU reflash to disable the EGR system. If you have a GAP IIDTool, you can buy the remap from Bell Auto Services in the UK and do it yourself.


Also, did you then take steps to clean the existing intake etc afterwards? If so, which areas should specifically should be cleaned


I’d reckon giving the intake a good clean after blanking would be a sensible thing to do. Plenty of intake cleaning chemicals around.

— Andrew

[Pugrot]

Sigh. It has nothing to do with the number of turbos. It’s fitted to the rocker covers and recovers any oil within the crank case before it enters the intake. You may be surprised to know your engine has one built into it from the factory in the centre of the engine in the V.

Most people don’t bother fitting aftermarket ones on the Discovery engines.

Thanks for the response and I didn't know my 2012 SDV6 had one but if it is a pseudo catchcan, how does it drain or does it need to be manually done. Dalil in his earlier post said he fitted an after market one to his 2011 TDV6 and was amazed at how much oil was collected.

[Chappo]

I had one fitted to my D4 for free with install of re-map and exhaust by Roo Systems. When checked to date, never anything in it. It is a very tight fit but is located on RHS top of the radiator, when looking from the front.
Can post picks if required.
Chappo

[DiscoJeffster]

Thanks for the response and I didn't know my 2012 SDV6 had one but if it is a pseudo catchcan, how does it drain or does it need to be manually done. Dalil in his earlier post said he fitted an after market one to his 2011 TDV6 and was amazed at how much oil was collected.

Self drains back into the sump. The gasses are extracted back into the intake, with less oil than it began its journey, but it’s not perfect. The crank case is only one of the places that produce intake oil. The turbos are also a great source of intake oil.

[Pugrot]

I had one fitted to my D4 for free with install of re-map and exhaust by Roo Systems. When checked to date, never anything in it. It is a very tight fit but is located on RHS top of the radiator, when looking from the front.
Can post picks if required.
Chappo

Thanks Chappo if you have pics you can post or ping me, that would great. Interesting the can was empty. How long between checks and do you do mostly city or hwy driving. Do you know if Roo Systems had to pull off the inner guard to get to the pipes to fit it.

[Pugrot]

Self drains back into the sump. The gasses are extracted back into the intake, with less oil than it began its journey, but it’s not perfect. The crank case is only one of the places that produce intake oil. The turbos are also a great source of intake oil.

Thanks for the info....sitting on the fence now whether to do it or not but if I do will need to find a competent mechanic in Melbourne rather than having the dealer do it which they may not want to anyway.