The perfect Defender?

[DutchMick]

Hi guys, I'm in search of the 'perfect' Defender

I'm new here (see my intro in that section) and relatively new to Defenders also. But I have always loved them for their no-nonsense attitude and capabilities. I did some minor work on them in the past so not a complete virgin ;)

Back to the perfect Defender?
The perfect Defender is of course different for everybody but for me it would be a 130 which is at least roadworthy and hasn't major rust issues. Price should definitely be below 20K.

The car is intended as our 'off road camping trip adventure car' and will not be the 'daily driver'. Car doesn't have to be perfect but if in need of extensive/expensive maintenance the price should reflect it. Ideally we should be able to drive it more or less after we bought it but it would be OK if some repairs are needed soon but again; price should reflect this. This way we can start using the car for some weekend trips around Canberra and improve her as a camping trip vehicle over the next years while still able to enjoy the outdoors in ACT/NSW/Vic at the same time. As moving to Australia is expensive enough we need to spread the financial burden a bit ;) So now my question to you: What to buy?

Saw this 130 on CarSales: 2000 Land Rover Defender Manual 4x4 (http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/_/SSE-AD-4305801)

Was wondering if anyone might know this one or has a thought about it in general?

On the other side of the spectrum (?) we have something like this: 1995 Land Rover Defender Dual Cab Ute 300TDi | Cars, Vans & Utes | Gumtree Australia Burnie-Devonport Region - Central Coast | 1126562596 (http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/central-coast/cars-vans-utes/1995-land-rover-defender-dual-cab-ute-300tdi/1126562596)

This one needs extensive work I guess...? If the price is right it doesn't have to be a major issue to buy a reconditioned gearbox and transfer case (I guess?) But then again, the price should really be low enough to consider that amount of work/investment right from the start. On the other hand, you have 10K to play with compared to the TD5 above. What is the smart thing to do?

Looking forward to your feedback on both examples and your general advice in buying a Defender!

[mfc]

There both salsbury diffs,which are stronger by far , u looose some ground clearance but they don't go bang...... also cheep to fit a Detroit unlocked and maxi axles to......... one thought as one who drives in the vic mountains, a 130 is a handful on tight tracks, I ended up with a 2002 110, mainly due to lack of good 130's at the time...reco gearboxes arnt cheap
Have fun looking
Cheers mark

[Phil B]

Have you considered a Perentie?
Lots of information available here and they are still available at a reasonable price (see Greys on line)

[DutchMick]

Hi Phil, didn't look into Perenties. All I see is soft tops defo not what I am looking for. And i would like to seat three people comfortable with room to spare. So 110 or 130 seems obvious choice(?)

[justinc]

Stay AWAY from ANY rusty ones. Pay the money and buy the right one. In the overall picture a cheap landrover will not be a cheap landrover. ..

Jc

[mfc]

Mick, just a thought . Shout out to act 130 owners and ask them to take u for a drive on a tight track... it'll give u a good idea of the size issue .... not really a major thing but some people can't stand it. I do enough 3 points in a 110

[Phil B]

Mick
There are 5 seat versions available
The last one from Minto went for $17k
I have an FFR that I have put a ute cab on. I know it won't suit your needs but they are a really great vehicle
Just my thoughts....
Good luck
Phil

[ROMAROVER]

I have a 2000 110 wagon, traction control free with some extras 200km well looked after by BOR say 15000 dollars. I am going to Canberra next month cheers

[PAT303]

Stay AWAY from ANY rusty ones. Pay the money and buy the right one. In the overall picture a cheap landrover will not be a cheap landrover. ..

Jc

I remember another member saying a similar thing once. :angel::p. Pat

[DutchMick]

I have a 2000 110 wagon, traction control free with some extras 200km well looked after by BOR say 15000 dollars. I am going to Canberra next month cheers

Hi, thanks for the heads up. I'm still in the Netherlands at the moment arranging the last things for our big move. Will be in Canberra from mid-January onwards But feel free to send me some pics of your ride. (or a link to your project?) I already have a parking place for the car in Canberra so maybe you can leave it behind when you're there ;)

[wpalmo]

Mick
There are 5 seat versions available
The last one from Minto went for $17k
I have an FFR that I have put a ute cab on. I know it won't suit your needs but they are a really great vehicle
Just my thoughts....
Good luck
Phil

Totally agree with you Phil. The Perentie's are the best 110 Landrovers in the world. Any of the 5 door 110's around 17k are good value when you look at what you have to pay for a good Defender with similar km's. If the car is intended to be used as an "'off road camping trip adventure car' and will not be the 'daily driver' then the Perentie is definitely worth looking at in my opinion too.

Regards Warrick.

[DutchMick]

Thanks guys, maybe I wasn't entirely clear at first. I have nothing against 90,110 or Perentie. But a 130 is the winner in my books as it gives me the right platform to use it at as camper one weekend and to haul our mountainbikes, snowboards and/or kayaks the other on a day trip (if we put a slide on camper on it, and that's defintely the end game)

So what would i like to understand is:

I would like to maken an educated guess on finances needed to buy and get it on the road safely for the cheap one compared to a more expensive one. And what would be expected to be 'up for repair' with the 17K option :)

7K: 1995 Land Rover Defender Dual Cab Ute 300TDi | Cars, Vans & Utes | Gumtree Australia Burnie-Devonport Region - Central Coast | 1126562596 (http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/central-coast/cars-vans-utes/1995-land-rover-defender-dual-cab-ute-300tdi/1126562596)
17K: http://www.carsales.com.au/private/details/_/SSE-AD-4305801

Looking at the two examples I posted what can I expect on issues with one or the other? (and what would it set me back approx.)

Thanks guys!

[steane]

A 300tdi for $7k will be a bucket of bolts. It's even described as being "a good farm hack or resto project"

You'll get some optimists telling you "it won't take much" but you could watch $10k evaporate on a project like that and still have a pile of junk in the drive.

If it was my money, I'd avoid the resto projects and be prepared to pay good money for a well looked after, rust free car.

IMO Td5s seem to be the best value buy at the moment.

Without inspecting the vehicle it's just a guess as to what the cost might be to make it right. The Td5 linked to looks well used. Without a documented service history I'd ignore whatever mileage the speedo is showing and look carefully at the condition of the vehicle.

You might get lucky, but finding a good defender at a good price might take a bit of time. They are out there though.:)

[DutchMick]

Thanks. It's clear to me that below 10k or without documented history it will allways be tricky to say the least.

I understood that some repairs are pretty standard around certain mileage? 300k means? Head? Gearbox? Transfer case?

[steane]

Thanks. It's clear to me that below 10k or without documented history it will allways be tricky to say the least.

I understood that some repairs are pretty standard around certain mileage? 300k means? Head? Gearbox? Transfer case?

I bought mine with 300k on it. It needed everything and anything I thought I might get away with leaving untouched, proved me wrong.

Suspension was worn out, including all bushes. Anything bolted to the engine was stuffed, clutch was stuffed, gearbox was on its way out, huge amount of slop in transfer. All bearings, hubs, front half shafts, cvs, drive flanges - stuffed.

Cooling system, heater, steering box and pump - stuffed.

Track rod bent, tie rod ends - stuffed

Brakes discs and pads at both ends - stuffed

And the list goes on almost endlessly.

My project was a lesson in it being better to spend more to buy a better Deefer to start with. I thought it would be better to buy cheap and spend lots fixing it. I got the 'lots' bit right and I do have in many ways a new vehicle, but...in hindsight I did it the hard/expensive way.

My Deefer wasn't looked after well by previous owners and finding one that has been is the way to go.

If you are looking at examples with 300k+ kms on them then getting one with recently replaced gearbox and transfer would be a bonus. You see them from time to time. Having said that there are aulro folk who look after their deefers and tc and gb are still going strong with 400k+ kms. How the vehicle has been looked after is everything.

Head gaskets on tdis are a consumable and no big deal to do.

Timing belts (tdis) are every 80-90k kms.

cooling system needs to be kept in top condition.

Like I said though, I think you have more chance of finding a properly nice, reasonably priced td5.

[DutchMick]

Great info. Found your thread will be a good read over the weekend!

[karlz]

Hi DutchMick,

Why dont you buy the 2000 130 still for sale in your original post?
It still is for sale according to carsales. You might even be able to bargain them down. It looks like its in pretty good nic and it has quite a few options.

I am not the owner nor do I know who they are.

[DutchMick]

Hi Karl,

Would love to! If I would be around. Still 16.000km away though. And not sure how to buy a car from the Netherlands in OZ and keep it in 'storage' for 3 months ;) But I am open to suggestions :) As yes, looks to be OK from description and pictures. An independent vehicle inspection would anyway be my preferred option before I buy something like a Defender. But no clue if I can buy a car without being in Australia yet... (FYI; I am immigrating to Canberra in January)

[Surrufus]

I feel like my perfect Defender comes in two variations;

The daily / tourer: 110 Wagon, turbo diesel, basically exactly what I have now.

The fun car: 90, V8 Petrol, big tyres, roll bars, all the bits, silly.

[ROMAROVER]

Hi, thanks for the heads up. I'm still in the Netherlands at the moment arranging the last things for our big move. Will be in Canberra from mid-January onwards But feel free to send me some pics of your ride. (or a link to your project?) I already have a parking place for the car in Canberra so maybe you can leave it behind when you're there ;)
no worries, have rellies in Canberra so not a problem visiting.

[DiscoMick]

Hi Karl,

Would love to! If I would be around. Still 16.000km away though. And not sure how to buy a car from the Netherlands in OZ and keep it in 'storage' for 3 months ;) But I am open to suggestions :) As yes, looks to be OK from description and pictures. An independent vehicle inspection would anyway be my preferred option before I buy something like a Defender. But no clue if I can buy a car without being in Australia yet... (FYI; I am immigrating to Canberra in January)

You could ask the seller to have it inspected by the NRMA (National Roads and Motoring Association in NSW) at your expense and forward the report to you.
If you decide to buy it you could ask the seller if he would store it for three months for a nominal charge or a variation in price.

[DutchMick]

Will keep that in mind for the next one. Cause at the time I saw your post it is removed from CarSales, being sold I assume. On to the next one ;)

[carlschmid2002]

Good luck.

[Greg4427]

I only have to look at the updated Toyota Landcruiser 70 to see where Land Rover should have gone with the Defender. Keep the same design and update safety, slip in cruise control, tinker with the engine a bit.......:cool:

[PAT303]

Giving the LC 5 stars just shows the ANCAP test for what it is,pointless. Pat

[DazzaTD5]

IMHO....
Ex-army 110's especially the hardtop wagons are grossly over priced.
If you see value in spending somewhere like 20K on a vintage tractor with a fancy body, then each to his own. While I really do appreciate the simplicity in an ex-army 110, they are not value for money.

and a few weeks ago I almost bought one up for sale in Kalgoolie, the seller had dropped to $10.5K, which is my limit for a vintage tractor.

Regards
Daz

[PAT303]

I dare you to post that in the Isuzzuu section :p. Pat

[Gordie]

Daz has a point...as the owner of a County Isuzu...I would love to own a perentie...but not at current prices, my County has all the extras and the comforts, at a fraction of the price of a perentie.

[rar110]

A county will probably be older with a lot more km.

[wpalmo]

A county will probably be older with a lot more km.

I will preface my comments below by declaring that I do own a Perentie RFSV. I picked it up about 18 months ago at a Grays auction in Perth. It only had 5000kms on the clock and had been fully rebuilt in 2010 by Tenex, the company that had the contract to rebuild Perentiie's. I paid $14000 plus Grays premium and then had to license it. All up around 16k and I was driving legally on Australian roads in what I believe is an excellent vehicle. I now have around 35000kms of trouble free motoring on the clock.

I have owned Landrovers for the last 25 years including a 2002 Range Rover. I still own the first Landrover I ever purchased which is a 1981 Series III Stage One V8. I have driven pretty much all varieties from Series I through to a 2015 Puma.

Isuzu County's are excellent vehicles and I was always keen to own one because of the 4BD Isuzu engine upfront. I never did get one but when the Army announced that they were going to be selling off their entire Landrover fleet plus trailers and spares I was very keen to pick up a Perentie and a No5 trailer.

The reason for the change in my desire to own a County to the Perentie is because of the extra's that are fitted to the Perentie and the fact that if you do your homework you can get an excellent condition Perentie that has a full service history.

A County won't have full galvanised chassis, PTO winch, dual batteries, onboard air compressor, rotating pintal hitch, side locking storage boxes, plus a full service history unless it has had a lot of money spent on it. If you add it up I believe Perentie's in general are excellent value.

I think from memory this post started with the call for the ultimate Defender being a vehicle that was going to be mainly used as a weekend off road vehicle, so onroad manners were a minor part of the owners driving. If that is the case then an Isuzu powered Landrover is a good choice and if you can get one with those types of accessories and it has done under 100 000kms with a full service history I think it is good buying.

I also enjoy driving mine on the road too as the suspension and seats that the army specified are good quality and the ride is quite comfortable. As far as I know the suspension components and seats in a Perentie are not the same as a County. Mine being a RFSV has power steering and 4 wheel disk brakes as standard spec which I don't believe the Perentie Commander (5 door) has but I am happy to be corrected. I am also not sure but I believe the County does have power steering but not disk brake rear axle.

Anyway just my thoughts on the subject and I hope it goes some way to convincing Dazza TD5 that they are not an "overpriced tractor"! I hope that when Dazza's TD5 gets to vintage status it is still on the road as I am sure that most Perentie's around that time will have just run their 4BD Isuzu nicely in.

Regards Warrick.

[Phil B]

Well said Warwick.
My thoughts exactly
Mine is an FFR which was incomplete and un serviceable when I bought it as a project because of its newly refurbished gearbox, brakes, radiator, water pump and several other things
A great project has produced a great vehicle
I am extremely happy with it
Phil

[JoeFriend]

Just to settle the argument;

The perfect defender is the one you own, regardless of whether you have finished the project or not.

Sorted.

[wpalmo]

Just to settle the argument;

The perfect defender is the one you own, regardless of whether you have finished the project or not.

Sorted.

No argument to settle, just a point of view expressed from driving Landrovers for the last 25 years. Happy to hear that you love your Landrover too.

Regards Warrick.

[DazzaTD5]

I dare you to post that in the Isuzzuu section :p. Pat

Pat Pat Pat..... tut tut tut....
And risk being burnt at the stake "kill the witch" .... umm no thank you.

You know its all fine for owners to get uppity with comments I make about their much loved Land Rover because they have owned Land Rovers for all their driving life etc etc, and what the hell would I know, because I've only been working on them for most of my driving life.

When owners get all uppity with me they might want to keep in mind, I prolly do more work on Land Rovers in a year than most owners will do in their lifetime and I'm not being all bloody high and mighty here as I'm generally my own biggest critic and worst enemy.

When I say an ex-army Land Rover 110 is a 1950 tractor with a fancy body, I'm not saying that as a negative, I like old tractors, they are simple in design, tough and reliable. Over priced? generally yes, the last one was a long range patrol vehicle, that after grays fees and shipping cost the owner $27,000 .... huh??? I just dont see that... one came through last year and the owner paid $6000!!! I offered him $9000 (which is my cut off point, after expenses). Also on average when they come to me to be prepped for roadworthy it costs upto $1000 depending on what needs doing, but thats a pretty fair average cost. So to me thats also part of the cost of buying a ex-army 110.

At the end of it all, the ex-army Land Rover 110 IMHO...
*I used to work on the same Isuzu engine in 20 - 30KVA generators and had seen the engines do 1 MILLION HOURS RUNNING!!
*as already mentioned, like a vintage tractor, simple tough reliable.
*It is one of a small handful of vehicles I would go remote travel with nothing more than a basic tool roll.

I dont own a TD5, its actually just one of my fav engines, it was a good fit for purpose engine designed by Land Rover. I service and maintain from new a huge amount of the TD5 engines, doubtful most of the vehicles they are in will see vintage age.

My pa's (dad) Defender TD5 will see vintage if I have any say about it, he will never sell it, I will never sell it after him, and well hrmm will have to find another family member after me to pass it on.

On the other end of the long stick is about three new Range Rover Sport models Ive been servicing (or first service so far) at an average cost of $160,000 (and only one has the "optional" transfer case) ....there is an awful lot of insanity in these vehicles, you could buy a fleet of ex-army Land Rover 110's and still have less repairs ten fold!

well coffee break over, back to another Discovery 3, Discovery 4 repair :p

Regards
Daz

[tangus89]

There is a "perfect defender" on the aulro Facebook page at the moment. Has had "all" the things done. Plus 2.8tgv. Wants $21k.
I can't link it for some reason from my phone.

Sorry if this has already been mentioned

[PAT303]

Daz,I know your busy with hairdressers cars but I need my TDCi serviced,I'm doing some miles over Xmas,any chance this month?. Pat

[DazzaTD5]

Daz,I know your busy with hairdressers cars but I need my TDCi serviced,I'm doing some miles over Xmas,any chance this month?. Pat

:p indeed...
Service work, its normally that 1 week in advance but country customers I tend to work in with their timetable more, so the 7th onwards is available, just txt is the easiest and I will put it on the board, cheers. 0418 570 305

Regards
Daz