Is LPG Availability Dwindling?

[Battler]

Despite replacing most parts on my D2's BRC LPG system it still won't run. I'm at the point now of thinking of ripping it out and putting the petrol tank back in rather than spend any more money on it.

What's adding to this decision is over the past couple of years several new service stations have opened near where I live and not one of them supplies LPG. So that leads me to think petrol companies are not investing in LPG supply.

So is LPG availability going to become a problem? Especially in remote or even not so remote areas?

[Mick_Marsh]

I think you might be right. LPG was a by product of local production. As the local refineries get converted to terminals, the available supply of LPG will decrease, it's price will go up and it's popularity will decrease.
How many Prius' have you seen with a LPG conversion?
Soon it will be uneconomical to run LPG (as dual fuel) in the family car.

[Tombie]

Local Shell had its tank due for hydrotesting.
Removed the tank, removed the pump and no longer sell LPG.

Apparently wasn't worth it..

[scarry]

Generally,compliances,reduction in demand,and lack of margin is putting an end to LPG.

Any Govt incentives have also long gone.

There are actually still quite a few recently refurbished garages around here that still have LPG.There would be 5 or 6 in a 3k radius of our place,which is surprising.

But in the southern states they say it is disappearing,as others have said.

For the record,there are quite a few Prius that run LPG.

But they certainly don't use it like the falcons used to.

[ozscott]

I loved it but removed it mate. Too many servos taking it out. And I needed the space in the end. Cheers

[Homestar]

The local servo I go to is thinking of removing the LPG soon and installing more diesel pumps. It's only got one high flow and one standard diesel pump at the moment and in the mornings there's always a que of cars waiting to use the one standard pump (Thankfully the Hilux can handle the high flow). There are 4 LPG pumps and I rarely see anyone at them.

It is unfortunate as LPG makes a very good fuel, but increasing costs, decreasing production and dwindling use may soon make it a specialist fuel. :(

[Battler]

Thanks for the replies.

Based on what you guys have said, my own thinking as well the bloody thing won't run on LPG without more money spent on it, and I've just realised the tanks will be 10 years old August 2018, I'm going to rip it out.

Space was not an issue for me Ozscott; I have twin tanks sitting where the petrol should be. Which is even a bigger problem if I can't get LPG when travelling, I only have 30 litres of petrol in a little tank up in the rear panel.

I guess I'll also drop a significant amount of weight too!

Cheers

[Pedro_The_Swift]

We did 8 months on the road and never wanted for lpg,,
except for silly places like Melrose,,,

[Battler]

How much usable LPG can your tanks hold Pedro? Have you still got your petrol tank?

Mine is about 60 litres giving me a range at best of about 280ks.

I noticed there is no LPG on Fraser and we are planning to go there next year.

[ozscott]

I ran round Fraser for days on LPG having filled the 60l useable at Double Is Pt. Ran out on the way to Hook Pt for the barge. I have the same set up on the D1 mate. When you rip out the tanks you can put in a stock tank and then have 120 plus litres of petrol... Cheers

[Tote]

I run a dedicated gas falcon RTV ute and have had no issues finding LPG although suburban servos are definitely removing their LPG equipment as real estate, compliance or recertification issues force re-evaluation of their use.
Price has been stable over the last 18 months or so in my area at about 60 - 65 cents per litre.
The bowsers on the Hume Highway generally have a vehicle filling with gas when I pull up so there is still a demand there.

Regards,
Tote

[PAT303]

Must admit I've never had a problem getting it,I hope it doesn't go,my Tdi loves the stuff. Pat

[BMKal]

I remember a "gas only" Falcon Pilot Vehicle going up to Mount Keith to escort a wide load (dump truck) back to Perth a while back. Couldn't get LPG anywhere north of Kalgoorlie. Apparently Leonora normally does carry LPG, but they had run out. None available in either Menzies or Leinster. ;)

Falcon Pilot vehicle ended up travelling home to Perth in the tub of the dump truck it was supposed to be escorting, and they used a site Landcruiser with bodgied up oversize sign and flashing lights to escort the load. :o

[Pedro_The_Swift]

How much usable LPG can your tanks hold Pedro? Have you still got your petrol tank?

70 litre twin underneath and 60 litre triple inside.
45 litre PULP behind drivers side rear wheel.

[Battler]

That certainly allows you to a long way between fill ups Pedro!

Where did you get the 45l petrol tank from?

[bee utey]

Brown Davis used to make the best auxiliary tanks suit LPG, around 50 litres I believe for a D2. They no longer list any on their website but you could try contacting them. They still list a 55 litre auxiliary tank connected to their 140 litre main tank replacement.

LAND ROVER DISCOVERY SERIES 2 1999-2006 Long Range Fuel Tanks | Under Body Protection | Rollcages | UnderGuards | Roll Over Protection | Battery Trays (http://www.browndavis.com.au/products.php'make=LAND+ROVER&model=DISCOVERY&series=SERIES%2B2%2B1999-2006)

[Tombie]

70 litre twin underneath and 60 litre triple inside.
45 litre PULP behind drivers side rear wheel.



And GVM met just in LPG tanks [emoji41]

[PAT303]

Brown Davis used to make the best auxiliary tanks suit LPG, around 50 litres I believe for a D2. They no longer list any on their website but you could try contacting them. They still list a 55 litre auxiliary tank connected to their 140 litre main tank replacement.

LAND ROVER DISCOVERY SERIES 2 1999-2006 Long Range Fuel Tanks | Under Body Protection | Rollcages | UnderGuards | Roll Over Protection | Battery Trays (http://www.browndavis.com.au/products.php'make=LAND+ROVER&model=DISCOVERY&series=SERIES%2B2%2B1999-2006)

I had them under my D1,one each side with the original petrol tank still in place.It was expensive to get it fitted,a couple of grand but LPG at the time was worth 55c per litre. Pat

[Mick_Marsh]

And GVM met just in LPG tanks [emoji41]
Nah mate, he's got a D2, not a D4.

[Tombie]

Nah mate, he's got a D2, not a D4.



D2: 2750-2075 = 675kg

D4: 3240-2588 = 652kg

Not a significant difference... [emoji6]

[isuzurover]

D2: 2750-2075 = 675kg

D4: 3240-2588 = 652kg

Not a significant difference... [emoji6]

Less than 2 cases of XXXX.

[ozscott]

Hey that's where all the important weight is! Difference between a good weekend and a Gr8 one... Cheers

[Tombie]

Never understood why travelling into the wilderness to do little but create a hang over is viable. [emoji41]

[ozscott]

I am not literally taking the ****. Tea, coffee and water man only. Cheers

PS. Now significant food consumption is another story...

[Battler]

How much do these tanks weigh? I've got two 40 litre tanks.

[Tombie]

About 18-20kg each plus frame

[Pedro_The_Swift]

The two different (full) underslung tanks would cancel each other out,,
maybe plus 30kg for the small pulp tank in the guard,
take out the 4 of the seven seats ( you ever lifted seat 4/5 on a D2 Tombie? silly me,, of couse you have.) add the triple manifold tanks, and you'd be fairly close to standard weight I reckon.:D

The fact the car never carries anything more than two people, a dog and camping chairs due to the caravan on its bum is irrelevant I suppose--
mind you, Guiness has put on a kilo or two lately,, :p

[scarry]

The local Shell garage is removing the LPG tanks,etc, at the moment.:(

Seems the recently refurbished BP and Caltex,and a recently built Freedom are keeping it.

[Tombie]

Pedro, yep. You're not kidding that the 3/4/5 seats are pretty heavy.

[Homestar]

The two different (full) underslung tanks would cancel each other out,,
maybe plus 30kg for the small pulp tank in the guard,
take out the 4 of the seven seats ( you ever lifted seat 4/5 on a D2 Tombie? silly me,, of couse you have.) add the triple manifold tanks, and you'd be fairly close to standard weight I reckon.:D

The fact the car never carries anything more than two people, a dog and camping chairs due to the caravan on its bum is irrelevant I suppose--
mind you, Guiness has put on a kilo or two lately,, :p


Blaming the dog again are we Pete...? ;)

[Pedro_The_Swift]

:blush:

[DeanoH]

Moving right along to 2018.

Is the LPG vehicle a dinosaur ? There are plenty of LPG only Falcons out there for sale, a great engine the green engine but will there still be LPG autogas available in 1 year/2 years time ? Fords local production is now a historical anomaly so is there now a whole fleet of 2nd hand vehicles out there approaching fuel unavailability ?

Are there trucks out there using LPG over diesel to minimise running costs and thus ensuring LPG autogas availability on major highways ?

I ask these questions as I'm considering buying a basic Ford ute but many are LPG only vehicles. Have these become the lemon of the future ?

Deano :)

[Tombie]

Deano,

Our local servos (bar 1) have all removed their LPG tanks and therefore no longer supply it.

When I asked why, the answer was that it’s no longer viable for them to maintain and supply.

[bee utey]

Still plenty of LPG service stations around my area (Adelaide Hills) but new ones are being built without it. I haven't installed a new LPG conversion for over a year now but still get repair and service work. I suspect it'll be available around the city fringes for a few more years yet, where the older cars live. The LPG supply chain for cooking and heating gas bottles will of course continue to exist so servicing a few outlets will suffice for future vehicle demand. Back in the 80's when I first drove LPG cars you could often get gas only at country fuel depots during business hours, could end up that way again in the future.

[scarry]

As Tombie said,they are gradually disappearing,for a few reasons.

Lack of sales(cabs were the biggest users),costs of compliance's,and very small margin and volume compared with other fuels they sell.

There are a few around in our area,but as the service stations are refurbished the LPG gear is removed.

[JDNSW]

Seems to be the same round here.

[PhilipA]

My local Shell at Kincumber on the NSW Central Coast had an enormous tank , which they removed about a year ago.

Regards Philip A

[Homestar]

The local servo I go to is thinking of removing the LPG soon and installing more diesel pumps. It's only got one high flow and one standard diesel pump at the moment and in the mornings there's always a que of cars waiting to use the one standard pump (Thankfully the Hilux can handle the high flow). There are 4 LPG pumps and I rarely see anyone at them.

It is unfortunate as LPG makes a very good fuel, but increasing costs, decreasing production and dwindling use may soon make it a specialist fuel. :(

Soon as this thread is alive again, an update on our local servo was that the LPG tank was decommissioned and removed around a year ago but the pumps remained. About 3 months ago a whole new tank was installed and the system is back up and running - The servo changed hands around that time and was taken over directly by Caltex again rather than it being a franchise, so maybe that's what got the ball rolling there, but LPG is back on the menu there.

[DeanoH]

Maybe it's cheaper/easier/safer to replace the tank than do a 10 year hydro test but interesting that Caltex replaced it after so long. Maybe it's a 'big picture' or airport taxi thing ?

I'm still looking for a suitable ute and whilst I don't need gas on a running cost basis (about 5000 K's a year) LPG utes are a major part of the second hand ute market so including them gives a much larger pool of vehicles to look at. It's worth keeping in mind here in Victoria with compulsory RWC's on vehicle transfer a 10 year old LPG powered vehicle MUST have it's tank within test as part of the RWC check. For a typical Ford 'scuba tank' install the cost I've been quoted is about $400 - $500 for the re certification alone, so 'buyer beware' ALL BA, BF and early FG LPG powered Fords will need to have their tanks re certified. OK for dealer bought registered/roadworthy vehicles as this should have been done but in the private market a real trap for the unaware.

Deano :)

[Davehoos]

Just spent a week in Victoria.
Melbourne-Portsea-Phillip Island-Puffing Billy.

Took the petrol only territory and averaged $100 per 550Km. has a 650 km range so you need to plan ahead.

Had to use mobile phone map search to find stations.
My LPG Falcon Can do 1000 Km with the same running around.

[pop058]

A few tanks have been removed here in Bundy but there is still 3 or 4 servos with LPG. We do however have "Bundy Hot Gas" who service the LPG scene including 4 driveway pumps.

[Tote]

Maybe it's cheaper/easier/safer to replace the tank than do a 10 year hydro test but interesting that Caltex replaced it after so long. Maybe it's a 'big picture' or airport taxi thing ?

I'm still looking for a suitable ute and whilst I don't need gas on a running cost basis (about 5000 K's a year) LPG utes are a major part of the second hand ute market so including them gives a much larger pool of vehicles to look at. It's worth keeping in mind here in Victoria with compulsory RWC's on vehicle transfer a 10 year old LPG powered vehicle MUST have it's tank within test as part of the RWC check. For a typical Ford 'scuba tank' install the cost I've been quoted is about $400 - $500 for the re certification alone, so 'buyer beware' ALL BA, BF and early FG LPG powered Fords will need to have their tanks re certified. OK for dealer bought registered/roadworthy vehicles as this should have been done but in the private market a real trap for the unaware.

Deano :)

I had the tanks on my dedicated gas BFII RTV ute done for rego last year. Was about $500.00 and that included couple of new fuel gauge senders. Pretty reasonable considering how much it costs to run.
Regards,
Tote

[Davehoos]

ten year inspection on the BF 11 wagon twin tank was much cheaper here in Newcastle.

I had new fuel gauge sender replaced to make the gauge accurate and they painted surface rust on the tank and floor.

My dad had to wait a week to get bulk LPG delivered to his poultry farm. They asked him what day he needed it and did it just in time. Im guessing from that there is a supply shortage.