My Brake are not good at all! ABS to Non ABS conversion done.

[FisherX]

G'day Think Tank,


So I had my 95 soft dash Classic out last night for a quick blat up the road to feel for issues be for it goes for rego. I've never had it out before so that was the first time I felt the brakes. They are crap!! I feels like I've got no booster. But the booster looks fine and it's getting plenty of vacuum.


Who ever owned it in the past has removed the ABS system and replaced it with a none ABS Booster and Master Cylinder from what looks like a Disco 1 and pretty new. The Master Cylinder has the 4 outlets not the 2.


Has anyone changed an ABS RRC to non ABS and found any pitfalls? Are the calipers different? Anything I should paying particular to?


I'll also look at changing back to ABS in the future. So can I use the ABS master cylinder from a P38? They are so much cheaper.


TIA

[bblaze]

Got my doubts it will pass a rego check without abs, weren't they a standard fit to a rr
cheers
blaze

[FisherX]

G'day Blaze,


I was thinking the same. I use a mobile guy for the rego inspections and I noticed he really doesn't look too hard into it as long as it works. And if you aren't familiar with the Range Rover it looks like it's all supposed to be there, so I might get lucky. So I'll work out how to extinguish the brake light and find out why the brakes don't work very well and might be ok.

I've bought a new full set of discs and pads and I'll checkout the callipers while I'm at it and see if I can find anything out of place. I'm thinking that maybe the callipers and the piston sizes are different between ABS and Non ABS. More research required.

[bee utey]

G'day Blaze,


I was thinking the same. I use a mobile guy for the regoinspections and I noticed he really doesn't look too hard into it as long as itworks. And if you aren't familiar with the Range Rover it looks like it's all supposedto be there so I might get lucky. So I'll work out how to extinguish the brakelight and find out why the brakes don't work very well and might be ok.



I've bought a new full set of discs and pads and I'll checkout the callipers while I'm at it and see if I can find anything out of place.I'm thinking that maybe the callipers and the piston sizes are differentbetween ABS and Non ABS. More research required.



I helped my mate remove the ABS off his '94 LSE when it failed, and replaced it with the standard braking system off the D1 that donated his 300TDi engine. He simply added the RRC spacers to the single line D1 calipers. All the calipers he had lying around all shared the same piston diameter, as does the rear caliper. I would check each piston's exposed section for rust, they are quite prone to that. Roverlord is your go to man for supplying new pistons and seal kits. If you split the calipers they're quite straightforward to do, not recommended to try it without splitting.

Another thing to check is that the approx 50mm o-ring seal is present between the brake booster and the master cylinder. It is easily lost during fitting but is quite critical to achieving brake boost.

[FisherX]

G'day Bee Utey, That might be my problem. I've still got the double line calipers fitted. Not too sure which caliper I need if I need to replace them. (have you seen how many different ones there are? :( ) I know the O ring you are talking about, I had to replace the one on my old D2 when the Master Cylinder failed.

[superquag]

The old '89 Rangie that I used to0 drive (for work) had the bog-standard vacuum boosted system...and it was Very Impressive. - We towed an un-braked trailer of more tonnage than it should have been... :eek:

My '95 Vague has the WABCO abomination, which IMHO is no better, certainly doesn't give the feeling of 'precision control' that the old one did...

If I was keeping her, I'd go back to 'Vintage Brakes' if/when the ABS system died...

Lady Sarah, 95 Vogue SE with working air suspension...

[Justinb]

When doing the recent 300 tdi conversion to my '94 RRC LSE ,I used '98 D1 front calipers with the spacer from the '94 LSE twin line calipers to match the vented discs for the LSE. Disco master cylinder and lines fitted, and RWC tester assumed that's how it left the factory. Especially as he'd done my previous landy, a '92 RRC Vogue (poverty pack) ( sorry Shane ! ) which was non ABS with single line calipers. 12,000 kms later, including towing 2500 kg , couldn't be happier.

Justin

[Tank]

When doing the recent 300 tdi conversion to my '94 RRC LSE ,I used '98 D1 front calipers with the spacer from the '94 LSE twin line calipers to match the vented discs for the LSE. Disco master cylinder and lines fitted, and RWC tester assumed that's how it left the factory. Especially as he'd done my previous landy, a '92 RRC Vogue (poverty pack) ( sorry Shane ! ) which was non ABS with single line calipers. 12,000 kms later, including towing 2500 kg , couldn't be happier.

Justin
After putting up with crap Disco 1 brakes for years I stumbled on to a solution. I had just changed a good working Vacuum booster to my 94 Disco, I noticed the pushrod from the booster to the Master cylinder was a different length to the original. I installed the longer (about 1/4") pushrod and test drove. WOW the brakes were spectacular, I could lock up all 4 wheels on tar, first time ever. After 1/2 a Kilometre I noticed the car slowing on it's own and eventually coming to a standstill without me touching the brakes.
The Brakes were not releasing after use. So I got underneath and cracked the bleed nipple on the rear passenger side, which released the brakes and I drove back home.
Removed the booster and adjusted the pushrod shorter by one turn (has threaded section for adjustment with locknut).
Test drove again and same thing happened, so back home and adjusted about 2 turns approx an 1/8" (overall about 3/16" in total), refitted the booster, main thing when refitting the booster is to watch the gap between booster and master cylinder and try to feel when the pushrod engages with the master cylinder piston, if there is still a gap and there is already pressure on the piston you may have to shorten the pushrod till there is engagement at zero gap, trial and error.
Worked for me and at the rego inspection the other day the inspecting Mechanic commented on how much the brakes were improved, previous year they only just passed the Meter test, if all else fails give it a go, Regards Frank.

[rwlse]

I went thought all this some years ago on my soft dash 94 LSE, with the TDI 300 Engine Mod.
I had a lot of trouble getting it to work,but after replacing the discs, rebuilding the calipers, (two were stuck) I manage to get a satisfactory brake pedal,not the best but adequate.Brakes wont lock up.
I have purchased a pair of Defender front calipers a year or so ago, and plan to fit those,but to do this I will have to use discovery discs and hydraulic pipe work.
Regards.
Richard.

[Spel1]

... He simply added the RRC spacers to the single line D1 calipers. All the calipers he had lying around all shared the same piston diameter, as does the rear caliper. I would check each piston's exposed section for rust, they are quite prone to that. Roverlord is your go to man for supplying new pistons and seal kits. If you split the calipers they're quite straightforward to do, not recommended to try it without splitting.

A question about this please. I have just found and purchased a nice clean 91 RRC Vogue SE but with a very broken ABS system, sounds like the pump or accumulator or whatever, it doesn't work, makes a racket, needs replacing. I've decided to migrate all my hard work and good parts from my well worked D1 to this vehicle, starting with the brakes. My question is regarding the calipers - I am going to use my D1 master and previously rebuilt calipers, but with the vented discs of the RRC per the forum sugggestions to make the single line calipers work with the D1 master - I understand the insertion of the RRC spacer to make this possible, but the question is - are the halves and spacers re assembled dry or with any kind of sealant between the spacer and the caliper halves? In some earlier different posts, there were some warnings not to separate the caliper halves for some reason. Wondering what the problems might be. Should I migrate the solid discs instead and leave the calipers alone?

Thanks in advance.

[bee utey]

A question about this please. I have just found and purchased a nice clean 91 RRC Vogue SE but with a very broken ABS system, sounds like the pump or accumulator or whatever, it doesn't work, makes a racket, needs replacing. I've decided to migrate all my hard work and good parts from my well worked D1 to this vehicle, starting with the brakes. My question is regarding the calipers - I am going to use my D1 master and previously rebuilt calipers, but with the vented discs of the RRC per the forum suggestions to make the single line calipers work with the D1 master - I understand the insertion of the RRC spacer to make this possible, but the question is - are the halves and spacers re assembled dry or with any kind of sealant between the spacer and the caliper halves? In some earlier different posts, there were some warnings not to separate the caliper halves for some reason. Wondering what the problems might be. Should I migrate the solid discs instead and leave the calipers alone?

Thanks in advance.

The spacers contain rubber seals. I've since worked out that aftermarket spacers are supplied with two extra seals suit standard calipers and genuine spacers have their own peculiar seal. It should be possible to buy these seals through someone like Roverlord on the forum. You may get away with reusing the seals in the spacers if they are in good condition, that risk is yours.

The other method you can use is to retain the RRC vented calipers, buy new seals for the pistons and re-use your pistons off the D1 if you have to. Mind you splitting the calipers is the only easy way to replace the seals as you can tap the retainers in with a socket. You will need to plumb a couple of tee pieces into the lines at the master, so that the double lines are fed by the single ports on the D1 master. It's what I did when I didn't have time to arrange a couple of vented D1 calipers in advance.

You'll also find it easiest to re-use the RRC steel lines and fit the proportioning valve near the master cylinder. Fit the D1 rear diff tee and use only one of the steel lines running to the front. The rear RRC tee can be drilled through to make a 4 way tee to use up all the RRC front pipes if you stay with the twin line calipers. It looks untidier than using single line calipers but it certainly works just as well.

Then all you'll need is two short lines from the master to the proportioning valve and you're good to go. I did the last conversion in someone's driveway inside 3 hours, there was a donor D1 round the back to get all the fittings off.

[Spel1]

Thanks BeeUtey.

I do prefer to keep things tidy and I will have the single line stuff on hand, I also really want to use the braided stainless lines I already have for the single line calipers, no point buying stuff twice - my biggest concern was sealing the two donor caliper halves to the spacer not having done that before. I will try and get some new seals for this before I start the work. Thanks also for the other related info. Simon