brakes this time, of course

[newhue]

well the poxy defender crapped itself again. Breaks this time. I see LR spent the big bucks on chrome plated calliper pistons which de-liminate then start pitting. The flaking chrome eats out the seals out and just after 6 years from new the brakes are stuffed. Glad I paid 60K for a second dearest commercial on the market.

Anyway, so I have a new set of stainless steel pistons, is there any tricks to it. The calliper seats look fine but there is some scuffing on the alloy from the OE pistons rubbing. Just replace with new or hone the seats bit you think?

[PAT303]

Actually it's a common thing on all makes because brake fluid is hydroscopic which causes the bores to corrode,the reason why you change the fluid every 40K. The bores are chrome lined to prevent this from happening,if you don't like the idea sell it and buy a Toynissibitshi,price their calipers against LR's, you'll have all the same fun at twice the price. :D. Pat

[vnx205]

I think what Pat meant to type was "hygroscopic".

Hygroscopic is the ability of a chemical compound to absorb or adsorb water.

A hydroscope is a device, similar to a telescope built for observing things underwater.

If someone was planning to do a search on the subject to learn more about the problem, Googling the correct term might be helpful. :)

[67hardtop]

A lesson to all the motor vehicle owners out there...replace your brake fluid every 2 years regardless of mileage unless you're in a very humid or wet environment then every 12 months. Cheaper than replacing ur brake hydraulics every couple years...

Teacher taking a break now...dont bring apples...i don't like 'em. 😇😇

Cheers Rod

Sent from my GT-I9507 using AULRO mobile app

[PAT303]

^^^ oops:angel:. Pat

[newhue]

have replaced the brake fluid every 24 months from new. So why is then the wifes 13 year old ford focus with 240K never had brake, clutch, or gear box issues. Before that her generation 2 chuck away hyundai excel with 10 years of life and 170K never had issues. And my old HJ 47 troopy never had issues with 400K on it.

I will let you blokes in landy land think they are something to behold, and yes I wish I did buy a toyota. But this heap of junk will be the first and last LR I ever buy. I don't mind saying I made a mistake, I should not have bought it, and perhaps all the rubbishing they get just might have merit.
You can produce all the rubbish you like on toyota, but we're looking about 2000 sales per month each for Land Cruiser and Hilux, verse 40 defenders. And I'd have a bet of those 40 defenders 3/4 of them have pathetic issue.
Yes if the wife would let me trade it in on a Land Cruiser I would, but I spent too much money accessorising it when new caught up in the Defender bubble.
I know it hurts to realise you actually know the truth as well, but its easier to keep flying the flag hey.

[Marty90]

I think what Pat meant to type was "hygroscopic".

Hygroscopic is the ability of a chemical compound to absorb or adsorb water.

A hydroscope is a device, similar to a telescope built for observing things underwater.

If someone was planning to do a search on the subject to learn more about the problem, Googling the correct term might be helpful. :)

I've been referring to brake fluid as being hydroscopic for about forty years because that's what they taught us at Tech.

[vnx205]

It isn't surprising that you were taught the wrong term. It is the way the majority of people pronounce it.

It doesn't help that hydrology involves the study of water and almost everyone has heard of the Snowy Hydro Scheme, so it seems logical that the the term for something that absorbs water would be hydroscopic.

However hygroscopic is the correct term. :)

[weeds]

Pretty straight forward to rebuild from memory....I did the rears on my TDI many years ago at 200000 km ish...not sure the fluid was flushed very often.

I gotta agree re: Toyotas, my POS Hilux has done 80k and hasn't had a spanner on it, I suspect it will do another 80k without issue.

I was seriously looking at other options before we purchased the TD5 to replace the TDI.....it appears I've been caught by the defender bug a second time.

[manofaus]

What's the wading depth of a ford focus?

[PAT303]

have replaced the brake fluid every 24 months from new. So why is then the wifes 13 year old ford focus with 240K never had brake, clutch, or gear box issues. Before that her generation 2 chuck away hyundai excel with 10 years of life and 170K never had issues. And my old HJ 47 troopy never had issues with 400K on it.

I will let you blokes in landy land think they are something to behold, and yes I wish I did buy a toyota. But this heap of junk will be the first and last LR I ever buy. I don't mind saying I made a mistake, I should not have bought it, and perhaps all the rubbishing they get just might have merit.
You can produce all the rubbish you like on toyota, but we're looking about 2000 sales per month each for Land Cruiser and Hilux, verse 40 defenders. And I'd have a bet of those 40 defenders 3/4 of them have pathetic issue.
Yes if the wife would let me trade it in on a Land Cruiser I would, but I spent too much money accessorising it when new caught up in the Defender bubble.
I know it hurts to realise you actually know the truth as well, but its easier to keep flying the flag hey.

And if you go over to the Toyota forum there's people there replacing $15,000 engines wishing they'd bought a Nissan,people on the Nissan forum replacing $15,000 engines wishing they'd bought a Toyota and people on here replacing $7 caliper pistons or complete calipers for a wallet busting $43 wishing they'd bought a Hyundai.I'd like to stay and talk but I have to drive over to my mates place in either of my two POS defenders and talk about what he needs to do about his wonderfully reliable Land Cruiser,the same one that broke down on the Anne Beadell twice a month back that my unreliable POS defender rescued.The rear main is leaking causing the clutch to slip,it also has the gearbox/transfer leak LC/Hilux's have suffered from for the last 30 years,he needs to decide whether he pulls the lot and spends more than the vehicle is worth to fix both leaks,2nd gear grates also,they've only done that for 25 years so more money.All of this on top of the bucket load he has spent on it fixing all the as you put it ''pathetic'' problems like replacing the Denso alternator,suspension,the wonderfull LC single piston calipers that seized up 6 weeks ago,but yeh,I'm in denial ;). Pat

[newhue]

gee Pat, bit sensitive there. We all know you are so proud of Land Rover, they could do almost anything to you and you would still love them. But remember its only a company.

I'm just saying I've had enough of mine. It continually has issues and has done since day 2. If I could be bothered typing all its issues one would have to say my my, but I also sense its not just me.
Yes it has moments of being a good reliable car, but on the whole compared to other vehicles I have had, I have my hand in my pocket far more with this one than any other marc. Yes a calliper piston kit it $220, however the wife's focus only ever had pads and rotors, never had the fluid changed in 13 years and no leaks. Anyway, anytime you are prepared to put your hard earnt down on a defender mine will be available. Only done 165K with a long list of cool accessories.

So I guess bugger honing the callipers.......

[Gordie]

I love my Landies, warts n all....I love my triumph motorbikes, warts n all....my mrs loves me, warts n all(I think)....

I also love having a Honda motorcycle with Japanese reliability, which I can basically 'neglect and ride'.

Basically it is 'horses for courses', I know that owning british engineering means that I will be in for repairs and maintenance. If that outweighed the pleasure of owning them, then I would sell them.

Just like jobs I have had, if I don't like them anymore...I leave!! Cheers:-)

[Bytemrk]

Very well summed up Gordie....

I think a lot of us feel the same.;)

[Plutei]

"I will let you blokes in landy land think they are something to behold"

"I know it hurts to realise you actually know the truth as well, but its easier to keep flying the flag hey."

"gee Pat, bit sensitive there"

Hey mate, I understand you're having a **** time with the car; it sucks dealing with things that shouldn't be a problem, but while Land Rovers might not be the most reliable and everyone is in their right to criticise a product, there's no need to take it out on people who love them or presume that we're all having **** times ourselves. People are glad to help on here, just keep it friendly :)

[Svengali0]

gee Pat, bit sensitive there. We all know you are so proud of Land Rover, they could do almost anything to you and you would still love them. But remember its only a company.

I'm just saying I've had enough of mine. It continually has issues and has done since day 2. If I could be bothered typing all its issues one would have to say my my, but I also sense its not just me.
Yes it has moments of being a good reliable car, but on the whole compared to other vehicles I have had, I have my hand in my pocket far more with this one than any other marc. Yes a calliper piston kit it $220, however the wife's focus only ever had pads and rotors, never had the fluid changed in 13 years and no leaks. Anyway, anytime you are prepared to put your hard earnt down on a defender mine will be available. Only done 165K with a long list of cool accessories.

So I guess bugger honing the callipers.......

Mate I had a few L/R products. I know what to expect. I've had a Benz cars wagons and 4WDs. Ive had a few Pugs and Alfas and fiats and Citroen too- I loved them all but some were 'issued' sufficient to sell on- i know what to expect. I tow and carry heavy stuff with my re powered 130 defender up hill and down dale. It is work in progress but also a useful and productive hobby.
This forum is a place for people whom like their Landrovers and as Pat said, go to any other forum and you will find unhappy campers finding their way through the troubles with help of colleagues and fellow enthusiasts.
Not many posters on any forum proceed to compare their dedicated vehicle to some sort of road car.
I guess that is both etiquette and manners and a certain degree of wisdom if not insight.
Therefore, the question remains why someone would compare their shopping trolley to dedicated proper four wheel drive utility type vehicle??
Its not like the runs are not on the board. Some 4wds are better at terrain negotiation off the shelf. Some of better overlanders. Some are better on fuel and some are better at carrying loads. Few are the peer of a Landrover for seeking to effectively design and produce vehicles that fit most of these specifications well enough to deserve the reputation they have and this is well established.
If you don't like the food, go to another restaurant. If you lack the wit to find solutions to basic or not so basic issues and find yourself shelling out sums of money - perhaps you might be happier with a Korean or Japanese contraption trading up on new models as they arrive.
if your interests are more than this, then get used to working stuff out for yourself and quit whinging and start doing. If you need help or advice, ask.
HTH
cheers steu

[newhue]

fair enough. I find it odd however the die hards can attack but I am accused of the same actions. Just as odd that if I criticise the sacred defernder then its known no need to hang around here. Warts and all hey....well I didn't buy a enthusiast car, I bought LR's work horse commercial, you know the one they market it as. And I have given up peering at it through rose coloured glasses a long time ago.

I won't start on the LR replaced transfer case that's only 70K old and leaks already. That would be improper and disrespectful of me.

And Svengali0, still no one has answered my question, I was doing and asking for help. But I got attacked because I whinged about a car. A product made by a company for nothing more than profits.
But I will save you all the frustration and depart. I'll whinge at LR instead as to why it intermittently does''t start again, just sadly now out of warranty. However the same problem it had on day 2, and took LR 8 weeks to fix.

But forgive me, I am sorry for saying anything negative about the sacred defender.

[incisor]

May be some people need to have a little think about how they go about getting their point across to other people...

Sadly people read the same set of words many different ways..

[weeds]

Hey Jas....do you need a hand with with calipers?? I'm happy to drop over........if the moons align

Don't forget the engineers probably designed it as a weak leak....designed to fail before some more expensive fails

[1nando]

fair enough. I find it odd however the die hards can attack but I am accused of the same actions. Just as odd that if I criticise the sacred defernder then its known no need to hang around here. Warts and all hey....well I didn't buy a enthusiast car, I bought LR's work horse commercial, you know the one they market it as. And I have given up peering at it through rose coloured glasses a long time ago.

I won't start on the LR replaced transfer case that's only 70K old and leaks already. That would be improper and disrespectful of me.

And Svengali0, still no one has answered my question, I was doing and asking for help. But I got attacked because I whinged about a car. A product made by a company for nothing more than profits.
But I will save you all the frustration and depart. I'll whinge at LR instead as to why it intermittently does''t start again, just sadly now out of warranty. However the same problem it had on day 2, and took LR 8 weeks to fix.

But forgive me, I am sorry for saying anything negative about the sacred defender.

Mate I understand your frustration. Ive had mine for 4 years and tge first 2 were terrible. 3 rear diffs, 2 gearboxes, transfer case, front and rear taukshaft blah....blah blah etc. This was all becuase of rear flanges beleive it or not....credit to LR for throwing everything at it to try and satisfy my concerns.
The last 2 years have been worry free. In sating that ive currently got a click noise when i drive off which wasnt there until i put the elocker and axles in. I didnt need to put these in i just choose to modify to improve any likely hood of something happening. According to Graeme Cooper the click usnt anything to worry about and they'll look at it next service.
My truck has been solid, always got me home and never left me stranded. Its been worry free the last 2 years and this Christmas we are going to Melbourne and then the great ocean rd to adelaide and i expect i comfortable and worry free journey, i have every confidence in my truck.
I agree that LR could have done a better quality control job as some people drive for years without any issue and others like yourself have a hard time.....
Either way i wish you all the best mate

Sent from my SM-G925I using AULRO mobile app

[PAT303]

gee Pat, bit sensitive there. We all know you are so proud of Land Rover, they could do almost anything to you and you would still love them. But remember its only a company.

I'm just saying I've had enough of mine. It continually has issues and has done since day 2. If I could be bothered typing all its issues one would have to say my my, but I also sense its not just me.
Yes it has moments of being a good reliable car, but on the whole compared to other vehicles I have had, I have my hand in my pocket far more with this one than any other marc. Yes a calliper piston kit it $220, however the wife's focus only ever had pads and rotors, never had the fluid changed in 13 years and no leaks. Anyway, anytime you are prepared to put your hard earnt down on a defender mine will be available. Only done 165K with a long list of cool accessories.

So I guess bugger honing the callipers.......

Not sensitive,your just missing my point.All 4wd's have issue's,when you look at it they have no where near the reliability of a normal road car even if you only use them for the school run they still cost money.The difference with LR is price,their cheaper to buy,cheaper to run and cost less when they break.Buy calipers from the UK,don't fix what you have,and my guess it's the pistons that have lost the chrome plating damaging the bores.$220 for pistons and seals is a rip,I'd buy complete change over calipers from the UK and throw the old ones in the bin,changing them is an easy job,I've used EBC brake's on three of my LR's,I'd use their high temp fluid and pads when you change. Pat

[PAT303]

fair enough. I find it odd however the die hards can attack but I am accused of the same actions. Just as odd that if I criticise the sacred defernder then its known no need to hang around here. Warts and all hey....well I didn't buy a enthusiast car, I bought LR's work horse commercial, you know the one they market it as. And I have given up peering at it through rose coloured glasses a long time ago.

I won't start on the LR replaced transfer case that's only 70K old and leaks already. That would be improper and disrespectful of me.

And Svengali0, still no one has answered my question, I was doing and asking for help. But I got attacked because I whinged about a car. A product made by a company for nothing more than profits.
But I will save you all the frustration and depart. I'll whinge at LR instead as to why it intermittently does''t start again, just sadly now out of warranty. However the same problem it had on day 2, and took LR 8 weeks to fix.

But forgive me, I am sorry for saying anything negative about the sacred defender.

Mate,I come across as being direct because I am direct,I don't see the point of stuffing around,there's a problem,fix it.Don't feel like we,particularly myself is having a go at you,I'm only have strong views on these matters because I've been on both sides of the fence,your defender is a 2010 model,my fourth LC was a 2011 model,it burnt so much oil I was stopped by another motorist while driving because he thought it was on fire,thats no made up BS,not only that it had the turbo pipe upgrade,the vacuum pump twice and the ECV drain pipe and it still burnt oil,from brand new.You now what Toyota did,I like hundreds of others went on the oil watch list,whatever the hell that is and then Toyota's fix was to change the oil changes to 5K instead of 10K.You think your ****ed off,spend $74,000 on a new vehicle and then have it burn more oil than a 40 year old HQ Holden.Almost forgot,you had the fuel reg stuff up,same as mine,stupid thing is made by Toyota,it fails on them too,as when as on Mitsi's,Jeeps causing stalling,you can't get away from it. Pat

[Svengali0]

Then there's this list of interesting debacles in new car offerings:

The 10 least reliable cars : theCHIVE (http://thechive.com/2016/10/29/the-10-cars-that-will-make-you-best-friends-with-your-mechanic-11-photos/)

[86mud]

Hi Jason, nice to see you here again, but understand your frustrations. You asked a question on how easy it is to replace caliper seals so here is how I do it.

I am sure I put up some pictures somehere on here of when I last did a caliper seal. I'll keep searching

Changing the pistons and seals is a easy job and takes about an hour (including cleaning):

Wheel off,
Remove pads
Remove caliper (mine uses 2 x 13mm 12 point bolts) and undo brake line. attached a plastic hose to the brake line and hold up above the master cylinder level so fiuld does not run out.
Place caliper on a suitable work surface.
Using compressed air into where the brake line attaches, blow out pistons (cover caliper with rags as brake fluid can fly about)
Remove both seals from each caliper chamber (the outer is within a fine metal ring)
Clean up everything with clean lint free rag
Install new square o ring in the chamber
Install the smaller o ring into the new fine metal ring and gently push this onto the housing. You may need to tap this gently so that it sits properly.

Smear new seals and new piston with fresh brake fuild then gently push each piston into their respective chambers.

Reattach to car. I found with gravity I could let the caliper self bleed with some success.

It is a shame that you are left with a sour taste in your mouth from your Landrover experience. It's not for everyone. I am constantly chasing fluid leaks which gets a bit much some days. I have two cars which means I have the luxury of parking up the landrover until I have a chance to work on it.

All the best

[MacFamily]

well the poxy defender crapped itself again. Breaks this time. I see LR spent the big bucks on chrome plated calliper pistons which de-liminate then start pitting. The flaking chrome eats out the seals out and just after 6 years from new the brakes are stuffed. Glad I paid 60K for a second dearest commercial on the market.

Anyway, so I have a new set of stainless steel pistons, is there any tricks to it. The calliper seats look fine but there is some scuffing on the alloy from the OE pistons rubbing. Just replace with new or hone the seats bit you think?

There is a few things I would like to point out from Jason's original post which I believe were missed, this is just my point of view.

1. Firstly I think Jason wrote this post while he was frustrated, hence some of his wording and we can all be guilty of that sometimes.
2. Deep down Jason is a Defender nut and the places he has been, experiences he has had in that defender and the family memories are worth all the heartache, he knows that.
3. He is more than capable of replacing them himself and he was just asking for advise and tips, which is what this forum is all about LR community helping each other.

It's perhaps to late but as Weeds said would be happy to help and I know a few other defender nuts that would also gladly help and what Andrew has posted is how I did mine, except I use an old brake pad and modified G clamp to seat the metal ring in the caliper.

[inside]

You could sell yours for 50K, get a 2014 Toyota 70 dual cab for around 75K. Get one with a canopy, factory lockers, would even have a year left of warranty to sort stuff out. It's not good when you look at your vehicle and hate it but it can be pricey to move on. The Toyota wouldn't be bad, make sure it has good tyres and it should go anywhere the Landy can.

Maybe a few of you guys can talk it over around a campfire :whistling:

[Ranga]

Thought I might add that Jason wouldn't be the first to curse his Defender - I curse mine fairly regularly! ;)

However, I've become very used to my rear airbag setup allowing easy loading/unloading and levelling of my Trayon slide on camper. I wouldn't attempt installing these bags on a rear leaf-sprung vehicle, so that severely limits my options even if I did ever throw in the towel and move to another marque.

At the end of the day, all vehicles break down, none are perfect, and by the looks of it we've all had differing degrees of success with our Defenders (mine's not a Friday afternoon special, but not without it's faults either). I wouldn't judge Jason or anyone else for moving to another brand - it's just a bloody car, and blind loyalty can be very costly! Paddle your own canoe, I say!

On another note, I'd be absolutely ****ed if it wasn't for the admirable types on this forum who've provided countless hours of help and tuition keeping mine on the road. So with that in mind, perhaps some encouragement and assistance (and a sympathetic ear) is all that's really required from us! Remember, we're not talking about a Toyota/Nissan owner throwing rocks here, but a typically exasperated Defender owner.

[86mud]

And Jason uses his truck for work purposes. The last thing you need is a truck that is not dependable or a truck that always need work done to it, no matter how minor. Whenever I drive my 130, I am always thinking about the things that need fixing. They are a unique vehicle and can be frustrating.

[mfc]

Hi Jason, nice to see you here again, but understand your frustrations. You asked a question on how easy it is to replace caliper seals so here is how I do it.

I am sure I put up some pictures somehere on here of when I last did a caliper seal. I'll keep searching

Changing the pistons and seals is a easy job and takes about an hour (including cleaning):

Wheel off,
Remove pads
Remove caliper (mine uses 2 x 13mm 12 point bolts) and undo brake line. attached a plastic hose to the brake line and hold up above the master cylinder level so fiuld does not run out.
Place caliper on a suitable work surface.
Using compressed air into where the brake line attaches, blow out pistons (cover caliper with rags as brake fluid can fly about)
Remove both seals from each caliper chamber (the outer is within a fine metal ring)
Clean up everything with clean lint free rag
Install new square o ring in the chamber
Install the smaller o ring into the new fine metal ring and gently push this onto the housing. You may need to tap this gently so that it sits properly.

Smear new seals and new piston with fresh brake fuild then gently push each piston into their respective chambers.

Reattach to car. I found with gravity I could let the caliper self bleed with some success.

It is a shame that you are left with a sour taste in your mouth from your Landrover experience. It's not for everyone. I am constantly chasing fluid leaks which gets a bit much some days. I have two cars which means I have the luxury of parking up the landrover until I have a chance to work on it.

All the best

Did my rear last fourtnight ... same as above , wish I'd have known bout extending the brake hose , would have been cleaner .. only fiddly bit is getting the dust seal metal rings in... just a messy job lol

[inside]

So with that in mind, perhaps some encouragement and assistance (and a sympathetic ear) is all that's really required from us!
Here's an idea Ranga, you and MacFamily could go to newhue's place, use mud86's instructions and help newhue get his brake pads working. Maybe there could be beer or a bbq involved and everyone could talk about how Landys annoy them. Afterwards you could all sit back and talk about great camping spots while the kids run amok. That all sounds like a good way to spend a Sunday if you ask me. :rolleyes:

[newhue]

If we have a BBQ it will be a bon fire. Bring your long toasting forks as you know what will be burning...

I swapped over the seals they are easy enough, dealt with the blocked bleeder, and being covered in brake **** for the afternoon. Just can't get the brakes to bleed up. Been through 2 bottles of fluid. Can get 2/3 the old pedal without motor running, and 1/2 the old with motor running. Pedal doesn't sink with held light pressure, but there is a lot of travel going on. Hoping its not the booster, but will be the second one if it is.

Thanks for the support on how frustrating these cars are. I see the ol coolant bottle has gone non see through, a little trick LR have been doing since Tdi's first release some 30 years ago, and seems still not bothered in rectifying. I have to keep checking the coolant as the plastic heater valve leaks. Again 165K old, and coolant changed every two years, just wears you down.

Wife has granted permission to unload it. I might stip the accessories of it and trade it. On what not sure, maybe a hybrid Pajero if they come out next year, and stick to bushwalking type camping. Our other hybrid is pretty cool to drive, and believing global warming is upon us and ramping up, its about my only choice for a 4x4.

Tanks for the offering of help.

[PAT303]

If we have a BBQ it will be a bon fire. Bring your long toasting forks as you know what will be burning...

I swapped over the seals they are easy enough, dealt with the blocked bleeder, and being covered in brake **** for the afternoon. Just can't get the brakes to bleed up. Been through 2 bottles of fluid. Can get 2/3 the old pedal without motor running, and 1/2 the old with motor running. Pedal doesn't sink with held light pressure, but there is a lot of travel going on. Hoping its not the booster, but will be the second one if it is.

Thanks for the support on how frustrating these cars are. I see the ol coolant bottle has gone non see through, a little trick LR have been doing since Tdi's first release some 30 years ago, and seems still not bothered in rectifying. I have to keep checking the coolant as the plastic heater valve leaks. Again 165K old, and coolant changed every two years, just wears you down.

Wife has granted permission to unload it. I might stip the accessories of it and trade it. On what not sure, maybe a hybrid Pajero if they come out next year, and stick to bushwalking type camping. Our other hybrid is pretty cool to drive, and believing global warming is upon us and ramping up, its about my only choice for a 4x4.

Tanks for the offering of help.

Have you cracked all the nipples?,I'm only saying this because a disco owner had the same problem and asked me for help,he didn't do the bottom two nipples on the front calipers.Fill the fluid to the top and start from the furthermost left rear nipple and work to the right front,don't pump the peddle down quickly or let it rise quickly,slow and steady wins this race. Pat

[Mrs Inside]

I feel offended for your Defender. Took you to a bunch of horrible places without ever braking where you met a bunch of horrible people, was the best thing since sliced bread to you back then. I guess you like to ditch things quickly when they don't go your way. My 2 cents said no need for a 2 page novel reply. I am sure Lisa will let you do what you want to keep the peace. Enjoy your Pajero or Hilux and enjoy all the new friends you meet
All the best
K

[inside]

I will let you blokes in landy land think they are something to behold, and yes I wish I did buy a toyota. But this heap of junk will be the first and last LR I ever buy. I don't mind saying I made a mistake, I should not have bought it, and perhaps all the rubbishing they get just might have merit.

Did the Defender ever leave you stranded? Didn't it take you across the desert a few times, the high country, Fraser, Moreton plus a number of other places? All the time while loaded to GVM? Didn't the vehicle offer a plethora of ways to modify and customise it to your exact needs? In all the trips you have done with your specifically customised vehicle exactly how many times did it let you down? How many times did your holiday end in tears because of this heap of junk?

So after 165K, some including proper off road, real outback and numerous beach trips the brake seals need doing. Of course the logical answer to all this is to want to burn the vehicle and put it down to Land Rovers being rubbish and having a go at the owners who like them.

Could it be that the owners who "think they are something to behold" actually look at the positive aspects of LR ownership? Maybe most Landy owners focus on the holidays, the camp fires, the customisation and the joy of talking to other enthusiasts. Some call this having a positive outlook on life. Sell your car, maybe try and focus on the good times you had with it, even if you hated every minute of it I'm sure the family had some good times on those holidays.

[rar110]

I get Jason feeling a bit jaded. Diffs, transfer box, electrics etc. And now warranty is over it's at his cost. The Puma seems particularly prone to failure. While there are many happy owners, but there's been some catastrophic failures. Digger is the most recent example that comes to mind.

JLR are only just starting to get QA right. I don't think the bothered too much with QA with an outgoing Defender.

My BILs 2015 D4 is an example. The adhesive sealer on the rear door glass was all over the place like mad women's ****e.

I'm really liking the L322. JLR seemed to have gone to a bit more effort on QA. However even then they stuffed up in my case by not spending 30 seconds smearing some grease on the output shaft, and surprise it failed stuffing the tranny and transfer box. I wasn't too put out as it had done a few miles. But would have done a heap more with no cost to me if the DHs in the line had spent 30 seconds and 50p of grease.

No model is without fault. But some Pumas have more than their share. So it's easy to forget the great adventures.

I think the silver bullet was the only car to have dramas on the desert trip. Even then it wasn't catastrophic. Actually every problem stemmed from operator error. Although the Yellow Peril might have got a new transfer box in Alice I think.

[newhue]

Pat, cheers, I see the defender callipers only have one nipple per calliper, regardless of number of pistons. I have been bleeding from closest to master cylinder to furtherest, will try the reverse. Pedal seems to sink however, may have to get the master cylinder sleeved.



Andrew, Karine, Mr and Mrs Inside; thank you for you personal views. Did the Defender ever leave me standard, well yes. Its been flat bedded several times and still to this day chooses when and if it wants to start. I paid 60K, and I kind of expect it to work. Bit different to a 20K dedicated holiday car one does't mind replacing stuff on as its required. If you see this as positive I am happy for you.

Sadly I know people with other marc's who have done all and more than I, and they are not doing the brakes. Or wheel barring, or transfer boxes, or have squeaky doors, or broken wiring, or leaking heater valves, or squeaky clutch pedals. I don't enjoy working on cars.

Yes I have some good holidays in it, but out of warranty I regret buying the Defender. I feel like a fool for thinking all the negative comments didn't or won't apply to me. You may think I ditch things quickly when they don't go my way, and it appears you are including people in there as well.
The Defender is just 6 years old now, and at its current rate of niggling issues I have lost the accepting Landy owner personality. As for the people, you can blame me for as much as you like, and I will leave it at that.

[Shoogs]

I feel your pain mate, I had a 2009 Puma, spent a fortune but what a let down, I considered it to unreliable for remote solo travel, ignition barrels, turbo, axles, transfer case, etc... sold and bought a 200 series, 120k trouble free motoring. Considering I have a 20 year old 300tdi that has taken me all over Africa and Western Australia it was disappointing. Have owned several other Landrovers but not sure I would buy another new one, still have old one but now in storage.

Best of luck with the new direction.

[MacFamily]

Hang in there, probably to late now but....

As Pat has advised start the furthermost caliper from the master cylinder and work your way forward, there are a few handy bleeder extractors on the market that dont cost a lot that make the job very easy. I cheat and use my air compressor, bit hard to explain but have made a fitting that goes over the master cylinder and turn the pressure down to about 10psi open the bleeder nipple on the caliper and start bleeding the air out.

Also have a read of this thread might be handy http://www.aulro.com/afvb/tool-time/215937-brake-bleeder.html

Goodluck with it, but when your minds made up and your committed theirs no going back and nobody can convince you, most importantly do whats best for yourself and the family.

[DEFENDERZOOK]

If you've bled everything up.....take it for a little run.....carefully.....

And see how the pedal feels after that........this will help everything settle......
Did you put the brake pads back in exactly the same position they came from.....?

If you've swapped the inner and outer pads for example.....they may not be sitting flush on the disc face.....hence increasing pedal travel as they flex.....

A short run will help them bed in and decrease any gaps hence improving the pedal feel......
If it doesn't make any difference......then it's either still got air in it.....or the master has blown a seal......

On my 03 fender.....the abs pump can be bled using the nanocom to run the pump to each individual caliper.........


When changing brake fluid.....it's good to get a different coloured one if you can......so you can tell when the new fluid is coming through the nipple.....
This takes the guess work out......

[DazzaTD5]

Just as a general comment more than anything else...

*if the brake system has been allowed to drain and its got air in the ABS unit, then its the norm to have to bleed the ABS unit with the appropriate diagnostic tool. Yes sometimes you get lucky and can bleed as normal, but it sounds to me it has air in the ABS unit....

Regards
Daz

[Killer]

It's a 130, no ABS.

Cheers,
Mick.

[DazzaTD5]

It's a 130, no ABS.

Cheers,
Mick.

I missed that in his sig.... it really shouldnt be that hard to do then :p

Regards
Daz